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[STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO

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  [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2016-02-02 19:26 -0800
    Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO John Ladasky <john_ladasky@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-02-02 22:02 -0800
      Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Bernardo Sulzbach <mafagafogigante@gmail.com> - 2016-02-03 04:07 -0200
      Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 12:54 -0800
        Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO INADA Naoki <songofacandy@gmail.com> - 2016-02-07 12:02 +0900
          Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-02-07 16:59 +1100
            Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-02-06 23:04 -0800
              Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 23:31 -0800
                Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-02-06 23:51 -0800
                  Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-02-07 18:58 +1100
                  Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Jason Swails <jason.swails@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 10:20 -0500
              Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2016-02-07 08:44 +0100
        Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-02-07 14:06 +1100
        Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 08:40 -0700
        Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-02-08 10:44 -0500
          Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2016-02-09 01:15 -0800
        Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-02-09 02:46 +1100
        Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-02-08 10:53 -0500
        Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Chris Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 18:48 +0100
        Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO John Ladasky <john_ladasky@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-02-11 23:51 -0800
          Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2016-02-15 18:02 -0800
            Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 13:30 +1100
            Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO John Ladasky <john_ladasky@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-02-15 21:24 -0800
              Guido on python3 for beginners Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 00:51 -0800
                Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-02-18 17:47 +1100
                  Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-02-18 17:57 +1100
                  Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-02-17 22:59 -0800
                    Re: Guido on python3 for beginners "Sven R. Kunze" <srkunze@mail.de> - 2016-02-18 22:37 +0100
                  Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-02-18 02:00 -0500
                  Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 18:27 +1100
                    Re: Guido on python3 for beginners John Ladasky <john_ladasky@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-02-18 12:22 -0800
                  Re: Guido on python3 for beginners INADA Naoki <songofacandy@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 17:00 +0900
                  Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2016-02-18 03:40 -0500
                    Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-02-20 18:59 +1100
                  Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 20:57 +1100
                  Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Cem Karan <cfkaran2@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 05:57 -0500
                  Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 22:07 +1100
                  Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 04:25 -0800
                    Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-02-18 10:51 -0500
                      Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-02-19 12:17 +1100
                        Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 19:39 -0800
                          Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-02-20 13:36 +1100
                            Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Larry Hudson <orgnut@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-20 00:37 -0800
                        Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-02-19 15:06 +0000
                      Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 19:32 -0800
                  Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Matt Wheeler <m@funkyhat.org> - 2016-02-18 16:44 +0000
              Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2016-02-17 08:39 -0800
            Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2016-02-18 22:14 +0100
              Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-02-19 08:54 +1100
            Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 21:07 -0700
              Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2016-02-19 02:18 -0800
    Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Wolfgang Maier <wolfgang.maier@biologie.uni-freiburg.de> - 2016-02-03 09:27 +0100
    Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Grobu <snailcoder@retrosite.invalid> - 2016-02-03 09:38 +0100
      Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2016-02-03 09:16 -0800
    Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Quivis <quivis@domain.invalid> - 2016-02-06 14:59 +0000
    Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2016-02-18 18:22 -0800
      Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2016-02-19 10:05 +0000
    Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2016-02-19 23:15 -0500

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#102415 — [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO

============================================================
 [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO
============================================================

A long, long time a ago, in a sleepy little Scandinavian
village, somewhere outside of Stockholm, a wee little boy
was born, who would one day become known as: "the BDFL". And
as all little boys love to do, he enjoyed frolicking around
the countryside in his wee little wooden shoes, picking
tulips for his mother, and taking rides on the arms of
nearby windmills. (oh, how cute!) And as he grew older, he
started to become interested in math and logic, and he
became fascinated with the power of software, yes, and he
*EVEN* dreamed of one day coding his own calculator app...

  BUT THAT GROUND BREAKING APP WOULD HAVE TO WAIT, 
  
  FOR SOON, FATE WOULD INTERVENE!

One day, when he was basking in the warm Scandinavian summer
sun, surrounded by tall blades of grass blowing wistfully in
the wind, a snake slithered close by, and began speaking
"great things" into his ear. And the snake told him that
everything in the programming world was completely wrong.
And that the syntax had become nothing more than
obnoxious line noise, and that, "religious paradigm
fanaticism" was going to pollute, and eventually destroy,
the pristine "code wilds".

And he, being a wise lad, knew the snake was right! 

So he listened contently, and he learned. And he fell deeply
in love with the snake, and the snake became his best, and
*ONLY*, friend. And for many years, he, and the snake,
developed a strong bond. And he swore that he would never
leave, or harm the snake. And as the boy grew into early
adulthood, a new and mysterious force began to shape his
world, and this new force was called "idealism". And his
idealism implored him to share the snake with the world, so
that *ALL* the children of the world might become
enlightened, by the wisdom of the snake.

  SO HE OPENED A LITTLE PETTING ZOO, 
  
  AND HE DUBBED IT: "THE PSF".

And many children came from the far and wide, and they
would pet his snake, and they would play with his snake, and
they would learn from his snake's philosophy. And the
children became so happy with the his altruistic nature,
that they affectionately referred to him as their
"Benevolent Dictator For Life" (aka: BDFL). And so, the BDFL
was happy. He was happy because the children who came to his
petting zoo loved him, but most importantly, he was happy
that they never questioned his "petting rules", or the
philosophy of his snake.

And he became an instant worldwide celebrity. And was
interviewed by reporters, and documented in magazines. He
even became worshiped, yes, like a god, which caused his
pride to expand to new and dangerous levels. In fact, his
pride became so great, that in one interview, he snarky
dismissed the dangers of his snake's "wildly dynamic
behavior", and claimed that, he would be fully content
as a passenger in an airplane with his snake as the pilot...

  MOST PETTING-ZOO OWNERS THOUGHT HE WAS NUTS, 
  
  BUT HE *REFUSED* TO RETRACT THE STATEMENT.
  
As time went on, a small "inner group of disciples" began to
develop around him. These disciples followed him everywhere.
A band of loyal sycophants, or "Umpa Lumpas" if you will,
who would blindly follow any demand he dictated, no matter
how ridiculous.

And he and his disciples became repulsed by the never ending
hordes of children who would visit the petting zoo, they saw
these "other children" as unclean, so they decided to create
two holy places called "Python-Ideas" and "Python-Dev"
(aka: the holy of holies), and they declared that, only
those who are willing to lick the BDLF's boots, may enter
these holy places.

Soon after, the BDFL took permeate refuge in these holy
places, and, from his rectory, he would sneer down at the
children below, and if any child dared to question his
motives, or broke one of his "petting rules", or even, did
not goose-step to his political ideology, he would call for
his minions to hurl furious rebukes at the visitor, and he
would ensure the child was banned from ever entering his
holy places. And although he could not prevent a child from
entering the petting zoo commons, he would loose his minions, 
to pester and mock, the banned children, when they did visit.

And for the first two years, this is how the BDFL managed
his petting zoo. And although he was not happy, by most
people's standards, he found peace within his "little
refuge".

============================================================
 BUT TROUBLE WAS SOON ON THE HORIZON...
============================================================

Near the end of the 2nd year, of running his petting zoo, the
BDFL had become bored, because, even though the children of
the world had never lost interest in his snake, most of them
had lost interest in him, and since he was mostly absent
from the petting zoo, he became something of myth, even a
legend...

He realized, that he had become nothing more than an
amusement park owner, but what he *truly* craved was to
reclaim the close bond that he and the snake once shared.
Observing the pathetic state that his life had become, he
became very angry, and he realized that, if *HE* could not
have the snake, then by god, *NOBODY* would!

But there was a big problem, he could not simply close the
petting zoo, no, because if he did, not only would the world
hate him, the snake would hate him as well. So he devised a
plan, a wonderfully *evil* plan... later that night, while
the snake was sleeping, he meticulously glued razors and
nails to the skin of the snake, and when his evil deed was
finished, he grinned and said: "Let them pet you now, my
pretty!"

And sure enough, the next day, many children's hands became
injured when they "interfaced with the snake", and once word
got out, that the snake was not "child friendly" anymore,
the hordes of wide-eyed children, that once came in droves
to play and learn from the snake, stopped visiting. 

  The BDFL has gotten what he wanted, 

  but not what he bargained for!

  Due to the rusty nails that were embedded into it's skin...
  
  The snake suffers a severe tetanus infection, and dies.
  
  Darkness again envelopes the "code wilds".
  
  And syntactic noise pollutes the quiet hedge rows.
  
  And the only consistency to be found...
  
  Was of the foolish kind.
  
In the end, the BDFL realized that he got what he deserved.

Due to his jealousy, his divisiveness, or maybe, just a lack
of leadership skills, he had single handily destroyed what
was once a vibrant community of like-minded individuals. His
celebrity vanquished, and his petting zoo repossessed, he
was left a bitter, and broken man.

But what he lamented the most, was the destruction he
perpetrated against his best friend, his *ONLY* friend, the
snake.
    

THE END

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#102416

Yeah, I know, I shouldn't answer this troll-bait.

Rick, you don't like Python?  Fine, go program in a language that you do like.  There are many to choose from!  Meanwhile, Python is satisfying many programmers' needs.

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#102418

I wonder if anyone besides Mr. Ladasky read through the Great Wall of Email.

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#102597

On Wednesday, February 3, 2016 at 12:02:35 AM UTC-6, John Ladasky wrote:

> Rick, you don't like Python?  

If i didn't like Python, then i would happily let it self-
destruct, yes? The problem is, i *DO* like Python. Python2
was a great language, but python3 has been a disaster. Heck,
even the BDFL has warned that Python4 cannot introduce as
many backwards incompatible changes as python3. So obviously,
he is admitting that Python3 was a disaster.

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#102605

Python 3 is a disaster because of incompatibility with Python 2. Python 3
itself is not so bad.
We can help disaster recovery by stop using Python 2 as possible.

Let's stop using legacy Python!

On Sun, Feb 7, 2016 at 5:54 AM, Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Wednesday, February 3, 2016 at 12:02:35 AM UTC-6, John Ladasky wrote:
>
> > Rick, you don't like Python?
>
> If i didn't like Python, then i would happily let it self-
> destruct, yes? The problem is, i *DO* like Python. Python2
> was a great language, but python3 has been a disaster. Heck,
> even the BDFL has warned that Python4 cannot introduce as
> many backwards incompatible changes as python3. So obviously,
> he is admitting that Python3 was a disaster.
>
>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
INADA Naoki  <songofacandy@gmail.com>

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#102609

On Sunday 07 February 2016 14:02, INADA Naoki wrote:

> Python 3 is a disaster because of incompatibility with Python 2.

How is that a disaster? What is your criteria for deciding what is, and 
isn't, a disaster?

According to TIOBE, Python's popularity continues to grow:

http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html

and is in the top five, above PHP and Javascript.

Likewise with IEEE Spectrum, that puts Python in the top 5 most popular 
languages for 2015, above C#, PHP and Javascript.

http://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/software/the-2015-top-ten-programming-
languages

According to CodeEval, Python has *dominated* at #1 for the fourth year in a 
row:

http://blog.codeeval.com/codeevalblog/2015


It continues to capture more of the scientific computing niche:

http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2015/07/16/scientific-computing-in-python/


and Python's broader ecosystem continues to grow, with at least six powerful 
add-ons for speeding up Python:

- cython
- numba 
- theano
- copperhead
- parakeet
- blaze

and more. The future looks brighter than ever for Python. How it is a 
disaster?



-- 
Steve

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#102611

Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> writes:
> According to TIOBE, Python's popularity continues to grow:
> http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html

I wonder how much of that growth is Python 3 and how much is Python 2.

I'm amazed there's still so much C being done.  I meet good programmers
all the time these days, who have never touched C code.

The crash of Objective-C is amusing ;-).

It's surprising that R places at all, given the amount of math that its
users need to know.

I wonder what it means that Perl is booming.  Hmm.

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#102613

On Sunday, February 7, 2016 at 8:04:42 AM UTC+1, Paul Rubin wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano  writes:
> > According to TIOBE, Python's popularity continues to grow:
> > http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
> 
> I wonder how much of that growth is Python 3 and how much is Python 2.
> 
> I'm amazed there's still so much C being done.  I meet good programmers
> all the time these days, who have never touched C code.
> 
> The crash of Objective-C is amusing ;-).
> 
> It's surprising that R places at all, given the amount of math that its
> users need to know.
> 
> I wonder what it means that Perl is booming.  Hmm.

Nice points: Programming language popularity is generally voodoo.
I am only surprised at your surprise at R.
Data (science) is after all the hot subject
A programmer moving into that field typically starts with python
A statistician typically starts R
[My voodoo of course :-) ]

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#102615

Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> writes:
> Data (science) is after all the hot subject
> A programmer moving into that field typically starts with python
> A statistician typically starts R

There aren't THAT many statisticians out there, compared to programmers.

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#102617

On Sun, Feb 7, 2016 at 6:51 PM, Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> writes:
>> Data (science) is after all the hot subject
>> A programmer moving into that field typically starts with python
>> A statistician typically starts R
>
> There aren't THAT many statisticians out there, compared to programmers.

Would writing a script to figure out whether there are more
statisticians or programmers be a statistician's job or a
programmer's?

ChrisA

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#102678

On Sun, Feb 7, 2016 at 2:58 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Would writing a script to figure out whether there are more
> statisticians or programmers be a statistician's job or a
> programmer's?
>

​Yes.

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#102614

Am 07.02.16 um 08:04 schrieb Paul Rubin:
> Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> writes:
>> According to TIOBE, Python's popularity continues to grow:
>> http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
>
> I wonder how much of that growth is Python 3 and how much is Python 2.
>
> I'm amazed there's still so much C being done.  I meet good programmers
> all the time these days, who have never touched C code.

This is easily explained; C is used a lot in the hardware and embedded 
field. Compiled C output is nearly as compact as handwritten assembly 
code, and arguably much more maintainable. C above C++ can be an 
artifact. The metric uses search engines to ask for "C -c++ -java 
-python ..." - I'm not sure they can really distinguish between C and 
C++ this way.

	Christian

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#102606

On Sun, Feb 7, 2016 at 2:02 PM, INADA Naoki <songofacandy@gmail.com> wrote:
> Python 3 is a disaster because of incompatibility with Python 2. Python 3
> itself is not so bad.
> We can help disaster recovery by stop using Python 2 as possible.
>
> Let's stop using legacy Python!
>

It's not even a disaster. It's fairly easy to write 2/3 compatible
code; in fact, a lot of my students end up accidentally running their
code under Py2 and only notice when they get strange errors from
input() with non-integers, or maybe if they use print() and get an
empty tuple displayed, or something like that.

ChrisA

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#102679

On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 1:54 PM, Rick Johnson
<rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2016 at 12:02:35 AM UTC-6, John Ladasky wrote:
>
>> Rick, you don't like Python?
>
> If i didn't like Python, then i would happily let it self-
> destruct, yes? The problem is, i *DO* like Python. Python2
> was a great language, but python3 has been a disaster. Heck,
> even the BDFL has warned that Python4 cannot introduce as
> many backwards incompatible changes as python3. So obviously,
> he is admitting that Python3 was a disaster.

That's a complete non sequitur. "George Lucas notes that he can't pull
the Darth Vader reveal again. So obviously, he is admitting that
Empire Strikes Back was a disaster."

Besides, you're forgetting that the whole point of having so many
backwards incompatible changes in Python 3 in the first place was to
get them out of the way and not have to do them further into the
future. Python 4.0 has never been planned to be anything more than an
incremental release like Python 2.0, and AIUI the only reason any of
the core devs are even talking about Python 4 at this point in time is
because Guido doesn't like "3.10" as a version number.

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#102680

On Mon, Feb 8, 2016, at 10:40, Ian Kelly wrote:
> Besides, you're forgetting that the whole point of having so many
> backwards incompatible changes in Python 3 in the first place was to
> get them out of the way and not have to do them further into the
> future. Python 4.0 has never been planned to be anything more than an
> incremental release like Python 2.0, and AIUI the only reason any of
> the core devs are even talking about Python 4 at this point in time is
> because Guido doesn't like "3.10" as a version number.

I still think we should just retroactively declare 3.5 to be python 5,
and then keep going with python 6, 7, etc...

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#102708

Le lundi 8 février 2016 16:44:56 UTC+1, Random832 a écrit :
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2016, at 10:40, Ian Kelly wrote:
> > Besides, you're forgetting that the whole point of having so many
> > backwards incompatible changes in Python 3 in the first place was to
> > get them out of the way and not have to do them further into the
> > future. Python 4.0 has never been planned to be anything more than an
> > incremental release like Python 2.0, and AIUI the only reason any of
> > the core devs are even talking about Python 4 at this point in time is
> > because Guido doesn't like "3.10" as a version number.
> 
> I still think we should just retroactively declare 3.5 to be python 5,
> and then keep going with python 6, 7, etc...

Yes, and these next versions will come with the new and
awaited coding scheme: UTF16+.

One another mathematical absurdity, one can (or will)
demonstrate/illustrate with a sheet of paper and a pencil.

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#102681

On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 2:44 AM, Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2016, at 10:40, Ian Kelly wrote:
>> Besides, you're forgetting that the whole point of having so many
>> backwards incompatible changes in Python 3 in the first place was to
>> get them out of the way and not have to do them further into the
>> future. Python 4.0 has never been planned to be anything more than an
>> incremental release like Python 2.0, and AIUI the only reason any of
>> the core devs are even talking about Python 4 at this point in time is
>> because Guido doesn't like "3.10" as a version number.
>
> I still think we should just retroactively declare 3.5 to be python 5,
> and then keep going with python 6, 7, etc...

http://dirtsimple.org/2004/12/python-is-not-java.html

ChrisA

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#102684

On Mon, Feb 8, 2016, at 10:46, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > I still think we should just retroactively declare 3.5 to be python 5,
> > and then keep going with python 6, 7, etc...
> 
> http://dirtsimple.org/2004/12/python-is-not-java.html

Java's hardly the only, or even the first, project to drop a version
number. (I think the first may actually have been GNU Emacs), and it's
certainly not the only one with a release schedule that frequently
increments the major version number.

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#102689

On 8 February 2016 at 16:53, Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2016, at 10:46, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> > I still think we should just retroactively declare 3.5 to be python 5,
>> > and then keep going with python 6, 7, etc...
>>
>> http://dirtsimple.org/2004/12/python-is-not-java.html
>
> Java's hardly the only, or even the first, project to drop a version
> number. (I think the first may actually have been GNU Emacs), and it's
> certainly not the only one with a release schedule that frequently
> increments the major version number.
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

In fact, this was done by a very popular Python project two years ago.
That project is pip, which went from 1.5.6 to 6.0, and is now at
8.0.2.

And its best friend setuptools is up to version 20.0.

-- 
Chris Warrick <https://chriswarrick.com/>
PGP: 5EAAEA16

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#102852

On Saturday, February 6, 2016 at 12:54:41 PM UTC-8, Rick Johnson wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2016 at 12:02:35 AM UTC-6, John Ladasky wrote:
> 
> > Rick, you don't like Python?  
> 
> If i didn't like Python, then i would happily let it self-
> destruct, yes? The problem is, i *DO* like Python. Python2
> was a great language, but python3 has been a disaster. Heck,
> even the BDFL has warned that Python4 cannot introduce as
> many backwards incompatible changes as python3. So obviously,
> he is admitting that Python3 was a disaster.

I had to wait until my favorite packages were ported (numpy, scipy, matplotlib, pandas).  But once that happened, I moved from Py2 to Py3 years ago with scarcely a bump, bruise, or scratch.  

I like lazy evaluation.  I think that Unicode handling is vastly improved (and yes, I'm fully aware that exactly two people in this newsgroup don't agree, they make sure we all know).  I have encountered few surprises, and nothing that makes my job harder.  

To be sure, people who are entrenched in the Py2 way of doing things, with a lot of legacy code, have some work to do -- on their code, and possibly on their brains.  Keep Py2 if you want it, then.  You still have a few more years before the PSF stops maintaining it.  If you really like it that much, why not maintain it yourself?

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