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Groups > comp.lang.python > #51449 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2013-07-29 15:43 +0000 |
| Last post | 2013-08-01 10:48 +0100 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 27 — 10 participants |
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Unexpected results comparing float to Fraction Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-07-29 15:43 +0000
Re: Unexpected results comparing float to Fraction Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-07-29 09:50 -0600
Re: Unexpected results comparing float to Fraction MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-07-29 17:09 +0100
Re: Unexpected results comparing float to Fraction Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-29 17:20 +0100
Re: Unexpected results comparing float to Fraction Rotwang <sg552@hotmail.co.uk> - 2013-07-29 19:20 +0100
Re: Unexpected results comparing float to Fraction Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-07-29 19:32 +0000
Re: Unexpected results comparing float to Fraction MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-07-29 17:48 +0100
Re: Unexpected results comparing float to Fraction Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-07-29 17:27 +0000
Re: Unexpected results comparing float to Fraction Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-07-29 10:40 -0600
Re: Unexpected results comparing float to Fraction Rotwang <sg552@hotmail.co.uk> - 2013-07-29 19:16 +0100
Re: Unexpected results comparing float to Fraction Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-07-29 13:33 -0600
Re: Unexpected results comparing float to Fraction MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-07-29 18:04 +0100
Re: Unexpected results comparing float to Fraction Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-29 18:46 +0000
Re: Unexpected results comparing float to Fraction Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-07-29 20:19 +0000
Re: Unexpected results comparing float to Fraction Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-07-29 13:08 -0400
Re: Unexpected results comparing float to Fraction Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-07-29 17:29 +0000
Re: Unexpected results comparing float to Fraction Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-07-29 16:48 -0400
Re: Unexpected results comparing float to Fraction Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-29 18:14 +0100
Re: Unexpected results comparing float to Fraction Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-07-29 11:35 -0600
Re: Unexpected results comparing float to Fraction Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2013-07-29 22:34 +0300
Re: Unexpected results comparing float to Fraction Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-07-29 14:35 -0600
Unexpected results comparing float to Fraction Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-07-30 14:32 +0100
Re: Unexpected results comparing float to Fraction Tony the Tiger <tony@tiger.invalid> - 2013-07-31 15:23 -0500
Re: Unexpected results comparing float to Fraction Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-08-01 06:20 +0000
Re: Unexpected results comparing float to Fraction Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-08-01 07:32 +0100
Re: Unexpected results comparing float to Fraction Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-08-01 10:44 +0100
Re: Unexpected results comparing float to Fraction Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-08-01 10:48 +0100
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| From | Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-07-29 15:43 +0000 |
| Subject | Unexpected results comparing float to Fraction |
| Message-ID | <51f68d9c$0$30000$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> |
Comparing floats to Fractions gives unexpected results: # Python 3.3 py> from fractions import Fraction py> 1/3 == Fraction(1, 3) False but: py> 1/3 == float(Fraction(1, 3)) True I expected that float-to-Fraction comparisons would convert the Fraction to a float, but apparently they do the opposite: they convert the float to a Fraction: py> Fraction(1/3) Fraction(6004799503160661, 18014398509481984) Am I the only one who is surprised by this? Is there a general rule for which way numeric coercions should go when doing such comparisons? -- Steven
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| From | Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-07-29 09:50 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.5237.1375113077.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #51449 |
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 9:43 AM, Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote: > Comparing floats to Fractions gives unexpected results: > > # Python 3.3 > py> from fractions import Fraction > py> 1/3 == Fraction(1, 3) > False > > but: > > py> 1/3 == float(Fraction(1, 3)) > True > > > I expected that float-to-Fraction comparisons would convert the Fraction > to a float, but apparently they do the opposite: they convert the float > to a Fraction: > > py> Fraction(1/3) > Fraction(6004799503160661, 18014398509481984) > > > Am I the only one who is surprised by this? Is there a general rule for > which way numeric coercions should go when doing such comparisons? Any float can be precisely represented as a Fraction. Not so in the other direction. So from that standpoint it makes sense to me to cast to Fraction when comparing.
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| From | MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-07-29 17:09 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.5239.1375114343.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #51449 |
On 29/07/2013 16:43, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > Comparing floats to Fractions gives unexpected results: > > # Python 3.3 > py> from fractions import Fraction > py> 1/3 == Fraction(1, 3) > False > > but: > > py> 1/3 == float(Fraction(1, 3)) > True > > > I expected that float-to-Fraction comparisons would convert the Fraction > to a float, but apparently they do the opposite: they convert the float > to a Fraction: > > py> Fraction(1/3) > Fraction(6004799503160661, 18014398509481984) > > > Am I the only one who is surprised by this? Is there a general rule for > which way numeric coercions should go when doing such comparisons? > I'm surprised that Fraction(1/3) != Fraction(1, 3); after all, floats are approximate anyway, and the float value 1/3 is more likely to be Fraction(1, 3) than Fraction(6004799503160661, 18014398509481984).
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| From | Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-07-29 17:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.5240.1375115193.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #51449 |
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 5:09 PM, MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote: > I'm surprised that Fraction(1/3) != Fraction(1, 3); after all, floats > are approximate anyway, and the float value 1/3 is more likely to be > Fraction(1, 3) than Fraction(6004799503160661, 18014398509481984). At what point should it become Fraction(1, 3)? >>> Fraction(0.3) Fraction(5404319552844595, 18014398509481984) >>> Fraction(0.33) Fraction(5944751508129055, 18014398509481984) >>> Fraction(0.333) Fraction(5998794703657501, 18014398509481984) >>> Fraction(0.3333333) Fraction(6004798902680711, 18014398509481984) >>> Fraction(0.3333333333) Fraction(6004799502560181, 18014398509481984) >>> Fraction(0.3333333333333) Fraction(6004799503160061, 18014398509481984) >>> Fraction(0.33333333333333333) Fraction(6004799503160661, 18014398509481984) Rounding off like that is a job for a cool library function (one of which was mentioned on this list a little while ago, I believe), but not IMO for the Fraction constructor. ChrisA
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| From | Rotwang <sg552@hotmail.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-07-29 19:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <kt6bdd$u6d$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #51455 |
On 29/07/2013 17:20, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 5:09 PM, MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
>> I'm surprised that Fraction(1/3) != Fraction(1, 3); after all, floats
>> are approximate anyway, and the float value 1/3 is more likely to be
>> Fraction(1, 3) than Fraction(6004799503160661, 18014398509481984).
>
> At what point should it become Fraction(1, 3)?
>
>>>> Fraction(0.3)
> Fraction(5404319552844595, 18014398509481984)
>>>> Fraction(0.33)
> Fraction(5944751508129055, 18014398509481984)
>>>> Fraction(0.333)
> Fraction(5998794703657501, 18014398509481984)
>>>> Fraction(0.3333333)
> Fraction(6004798902680711, 18014398509481984)
>>>> Fraction(0.3333333333)
> Fraction(6004799502560181, 18014398509481984)
>>>> Fraction(0.3333333333333)
> Fraction(6004799503160061, 18014398509481984)
>>>> Fraction(0.33333333333333333)
> Fraction(6004799503160661, 18014398509481984)
>
> Rounding off like that is a job for a cool library function (one of
> which was mentioned on this list a little while ago, I believe), but
> not IMO for the Fraction constructor.
How about this?
>>> from fractions import Fraction
>>> help(Fraction.limit_denominator)
Help on function limit_denominator in module fractions:
limit_denominator(self, max_denominator=1000000)
Closest Fraction to self with denominator at most max_denominator.
>>> Fraction('3.141592653589793').limit_denominator(10)
Fraction(22, 7)
>>> Fraction('3.141592653589793').limit_denominator(100)
Fraction(311, 99)
>>> Fraction(4321, 8765).limit_denominator(10000)
Fraction(4321, 8765)
>>> Fraction(1/3).limit_denominator()
Fraction(1, 3)
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| From | Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-07-29 19:32 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <51f6c356$0$30000$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #51455 |
On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 17:20:27 +0100, Chris Angelico wrote: >>>> Fraction(0.3) > Fraction(5404319552844595, 18014398509481984) >>>> Fraction(0.33) > Fraction(5944751508129055, 18014398509481984) [...] >>>> Fraction(0.33333333333333333) > Fraction(6004799503160661, 18014398509481984) > > Rounding off like that is a job for a cool library function (one of > which was mentioned on this list a little while ago, I believe), but not > IMO for the Fraction constructor. Or: py> Fraction(1/3).limit_denominator(100) Fraction(1, 3) I think it would be useful for Fraction.from_float() to accept an optional second argument, the maximum denominator: Fraction.from_float(x, den=None) => nearest fraction to float 1/3, with denominator no greater than den -- Steven
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| From | MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-07-29 17:48 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.5243.1375116500.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #51449 |
On 29/07/2013 17:20, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 5:09 PM, MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote: >> I'm surprised that Fraction(1/3) != Fraction(1, 3); after all, floats >> are approximate anyway, and the float value 1/3 is more likely to be >> Fraction(1, 3) than Fraction(6004799503160661, 18014398509481984). > > At what point should it become Fraction(1, 3)? > When the error drops below a certain threshold. >>>> Fraction(0.3) > Fraction(5404319552844595, 18014398509481984) >>>> Fraction(0.33) > Fraction(5944751508129055, 18014398509481984) >>>> Fraction(0.333) > Fraction(5998794703657501, 18014398509481984) >>>> Fraction(0.3333333) > Fraction(6004798902680711, 18014398509481984) >>>> Fraction(0.3333333333) > Fraction(6004799502560181, 18014398509481984) >>>> Fraction(0.3333333333333) > Fraction(6004799503160061, 18014398509481984) >>>> Fraction(0.33333333333333333) > Fraction(6004799503160661, 18014398509481984) > > Rounding off like that is a job for a cool library function (one of > which was mentioned on this list a little while ago, I believe), but > not IMO for the Fraction constructor. >
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| From | Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-07-29 17:27 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <51f6a5ed$0$30000$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #51460 |
On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 17:48:21 +0100, MRAB wrote: > On 29/07/2013 17:20, Chris Angelico wrote: >> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 5:09 PM, MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> >> wrote: >>> I'm surprised that Fraction(1/3) != Fraction(1, 3); after all, floats >>> are approximate anyway, and the float value 1/3 is more likely to be >>> Fraction(1, 3) than Fraction(6004799503160661, 18014398509481984). >> >> At what point should it become Fraction(1, 3)? >> > When the error drops below a certain threshold. Good plan! I pick a threshold of 42.7. Anyone got a better threshold? *wink* -- Steven
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| From | Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-07-29 10:40 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.5244.1375116584.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #51449 |
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote: > On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 5:09 PM, MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote: >> I'm surprised that Fraction(1/3) != Fraction(1, 3); after all, floats >> are approximate anyway, and the float value 1/3 is more likely to be >> Fraction(1, 3) than Fraction(6004799503160661, 18014398509481984). > > At what point should it become Fraction(1, 3)? At the point where the float is exactly equal to the value you get from the floating-point division 1/3. If it's some other float then the user didn't get there by entering 1/3, so it's not worth trying to pretend that they did. We do a similar rounding when formatting floats to strings, but in that case one only has to worry about divisors that are powers of 10. I imagine it's going to take more time to find the correct fraction when any pair of relatively prime integers can be a candidate numerator and denominator. Additionally, the string rounding only occurs when the float is being formatted for display; we certainly don't do it as the result of numeric operations where it could result in loss of precision.
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| From | Rotwang <sg552@hotmail.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-07-29 19:16 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <kt6b6a$s9p$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #51461 |
On 29/07/2013 17:40, Ian Kelly wrote: > On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote: >> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 5:09 PM, MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote: >>> I'm surprised that Fraction(1/3) != Fraction(1, 3); after all, floats >>> are approximate anyway, and the float value 1/3 is more likely to be >>> Fraction(1, 3) than Fraction(6004799503160661, 18014398509481984). >> >> At what point should it become Fraction(1, 3)? > > At the point where the float is exactly equal to the value you get > from the floating-point division 1/3. But the interpreter has no way of knowing that the value 1/3 that's been passed to the Fraction constructor was obtained from the division 1/3, rather than, say, 100000000000000001/300000000000000000 or 6004799503160661/18014398509481984. How do you propose the constructor should decide between the many possible fractions that round to the same float, if not by choosing the one that evaluates to it exactly? Personally the behaviour in the OP is exactly what I would expect.
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| From | Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-07-29 13:33 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.5255.1375126463.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #51470 |
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 12:16 PM, Rotwang <sg552@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: > On 29/07/2013 17:40, Ian Kelly wrote: >> At the point where the float is exactly equal to the value you get >> from the floating-point division 1/3. > > > But the interpreter has no way of knowing that the value 1/3 that's been > passed to the Fraction constructor was obtained from the division 1/3, > rather than, say, 100000000000000001/300000000000000000 or > 6004799503160661/18014398509481984. How do you propose the constructor > should decide between the many possible fractions that round to the same > float, if not by choosing the one that evaluates to it exactly? It should choose the fraction with the least terms that rounds to the float. Whether "least" here means least numerator, least denominator, least sum of the two, or whatever is not terribly important.
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| From | MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-07-29 18:04 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.5245.1375117457.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #51449 |
On 29/07/2013 17:40, Ian Kelly wrote: > On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote: >> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 5:09 PM, MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote: >>> I'm surprised that Fraction(1/3) != Fraction(1, 3); after all, floats >>> are approximate anyway, and the float value 1/3 is more likely to be >>> Fraction(1, 3) than Fraction(6004799503160661, 18014398509481984). >> >> At what point should it become Fraction(1, 3)? > > At the point where the float is exactly equal to the value you get > from the floating-point division 1/3. If it's some other float then > the user didn't get there by entering 1/3, so it's not worth trying to > pretend that they did. > I thought that you're not meant to check for equality when using floats. > We do a similar rounding when formatting floats to strings, but in > that case one only has to worry about divisors that are powers of 10. > I imagine it's going to take more time to find the correct fraction > when any pair of relatively prime integers can be a candidate > numerator and denominator. Additionally, the string rounding only > occurs when the float is being formatted for display; we certainly > don't do it as the result of numeric operations where it could result > in loss of precision. >
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| From | Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-07-29 18:46 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <kt6da9$7sg$1@reader1.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #51462 |
On 2013-07-29, MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> On 29/07/2013 17:40, Ian Kelly wrote:
>> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 5:09 PM, MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
>>>> I'm surprised that Fraction(1/3) != Fraction(1, 3); after all, floats
>>>> are approximate anyway, and the float value 1/3 is more likely to be
>>>> Fraction(1, 3) than Fraction(6004799503160661, 18014398509481984).
>>>
>>> At what point should it become Fraction(1, 3)?
>>
>> At the point where the float is exactly equal to the value you get
>> from the floating-point division 1/3. If it's some other float then
>> the user didn't get there by entering 1/3, so it's not worth trying to
>> pretend that they did.
>
> I thought that you're not meant to check for equality when using floats.
You check for equality if equality is what you want to check. However
much of the time when people _think_ they want to check for FP
equality, they're wrong.
You'll have to consult with a spiritual advisor to determin what you
are "meant" to do...
--
Grant Edwards grant.b.edwards Yow! Awright, which one of
at you hid my PENIS ENVY?
gmail.com
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| From | Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-07-29 20:19 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <51f6ce6d$0$30000$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #51462 |
On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 18:04:19 +0100, MRAB wrote:
> I thought that you're not meant to check for equality when using floats.
Heavens no. You're only meant to *mostly* not check for equality using
floats. As Miracle Max might say:
"It just so happens that floats are only MOSTLY inexact. There's a big
difference between mostly inexact and all inexact. Mostly inexact is
slightly exact."
Or to be a little more serious, "never check floats for equality" is
actually pretty lousy advice. As Professor William Kahan puts it, the
word "never" makes it rank superstition.
There are three main problems with the general advice "never check floats
for equality":
1) there are perfectly fine situations where you can check floats
for (in)equality without any problem, e.g.:
if x == 0.0: print "Division by zero"
else: y = 1/x # perfectly safe
2) most of the time, those giving this advice don't actually say
what you should do instead;
3) and when they do, it's often either flat-out wrong, or at least
incomplete.
For example, you might have been told to instead check whether your float
is less than some epsilon:
abs(x - y) < eps
But chances are you've never been given any sort of reliable,
deterministic algorithm for deciding what value eps should have. (Mostly
because there is no such algorithm!) Or for deciding when to use absolute
differences, like the above, and when to use relative differences.
Another issue: if eps is too big, you're taking distinct values and
treating them as the same, which is bad. And if eps is too small, you're
actually doing what you said you should never do, only slower.
E.g. suppose you want to check for a float which equals some value M,
I'll pick M = 2199023255552.0 semi-arbitrarily, but it could be any of
many numbers. You don't want to use equality, so you pick an epsilon:
eps = 1e-6 # seems reasonable...
and then test values like this:
M = 2199023255552.0
if abs(x - M) <= eps:
print("close enough")
That is just a longer and slower way of calculating x == M. Why? Because
the two floats immediately adjacent to M differ by more than your epsilon:
py> M = 2199023255552.0
py> M.hex()
'0x1.0000000000000p+41'
py> float.fromhex('0x1.0000000000001p+41') - M
0.00048828125
py> M - float.fromhex('0x1.fffffffffffffp+40')
0.000244140625
So in this case, any epsilon below 0.000244140625 is just wasting your
time, since it cannot possibly detect any value other than M itself. And
that critical cut-off depends on the numbers you are calculating with.
Oh, for what it's worth, I don't pretend to know how to choose an epsilon
either. I can sometimes recognise a bad epsilon, but not a good one.
Floats are *hard*.
--
Steven
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| From | Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-07-29 13:08 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.5246.1375117736.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #51449 |
On 7/29/2013 11:50 AM, Ian Kelly wrote: > On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 9:43 AM, Steven D'Aprano > <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote: >> Comparing floats to Fractions gives unexpected results: >> >> # Python 3.3 >> py> from fractions import Fraction >> py> 1/3 == Fraction(1, 3) >> False >> >> but: >> >> py> 1/3 == float(Fraction(1, 3)) >> True >> >> >> I expected that float-to-Fraction comparisons would convert the Fraction >> to a float, but apparently they do the opposite: they convert the float >> to a Fraction: >> >> py> Fraction(1/3) >> Fraction(6004799503160661, 18014398509481984) >> >> >> Am I the only one who is surprised by this? Is there a general rule for >> which way numeric coercions should go when doing such comparisons? > > Any float can be precisely represented as a Fraction. Not so in the > other direction. In other words, there can be multiple unequal Franctions that have the same float value: for instance, Fraction(1,3) and Fraction(6004799503160661, 18014398509481984) > So from that standpoint it makes sense to me to cast to > Fraction when comparing. Otherwise, == becomes non-transitive -- Terry Jan Reedy
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| From | Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-07-29 17:29 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <51f6a68c$0$30000$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #51463 |
On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 13:08:20 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote: > In other words, there can be multiple unequal Franctions that have the > same float value: for instance, Fraction(1,3) and > Fraction(6004799503160661, 18014398509481984) > > > So from that standpoint it makes sense to me to cast to Fraction when > > comparing. > > Otherwise, == becomes non-transitive This is Python, and we can make __eq__ methods that do anything, including be non-transitive, non-reflexive, and nonsensical if we like :-) But I take your point, and that makes sense. -- Steven
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| From | Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-07-29 16:48 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.5268.1375130932.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #51468 |
On 7/29/2013 1:29 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 13:08:20 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote: > >> In other words, there can be multiple unequal Franctions that have the >> same float value: for instance, Fraction(1,3) and >> Fraction(6004799503160661, 18014398509481984) >> >> > So from that standpoint it makes sense to me to cast to Fraction when >> > comparing. >> >> Otherwise, == becomes non-transitive > > This is Python, and we can make __eq__ methods that do anything, > including be non-transitive, non-reflexive, and nonsensical if we like :-) Yes, Python's developers can intentionally introduce bugs, but we try not to. The definitions of sets and dicts and containment assume that == means equality as mathematically defined. As one time, we had 0 == 0.0 and 0 == Decimal(0) but 0.0 != Decimal(0) (and so on for all integral float values. That 'misfeature' was corrected because of the 'problems' it caused. That lesson learned, one of the design requirements for the new enum class (metaclass) was that it not re-introduce non-transitivity. -- Terry Jan Reedy
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| From | Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-07-29 18:14 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.5247.1375118049.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #51449 |
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 5:40 PM, Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> wrote: > On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote: >> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 5:09 PM, MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote: >>> I'm surprised that Fraction(1/3) != Fraction(1, 3); after all, floats >>> are approximate anyway, and the float value 1/3 is more likely to be >>> Fraction(1, 3) than Fraction(6004799503160661, 18014398509481984). >> >> At what point should it become Fraction(1, 3)? > > At the point where the float is exactly equal to the value you get > from the floating-point division 1/3. If it's some other float then > the user didn't get there by entering 1/3, so it's not worth trying to > pretend that they did. > > We do a similar rounding when formatting floats to strings, but in > that case one only has to worry about divisors that are powers of 10. > I imagine it's going to take more time to find the correct fraction > when any pair of relatively prime integers can be a candidate > numerator and denominator. I imagine it is, and that's where the problem comes in. The true value is somewhere between (X-0.5)/2**n and (X+0.5)/2**n, or whatever the actual range is, and finding a "nice" fraction in that range isn't an instant and direct translation. It's a useful feature, but not IMO necessary for the constructor. ChrisA
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| From | Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-07-29 11:35 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.5250.1375119362.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #51449 |
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 11:04 AM, MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote: > On 29/07/2013 17:40, Ian Kelly wrote: >> At the point where the float is exactly equal to the value you get >> from the floating-point division 1/3. If it's some other float then >> the user didn't get there by entering 1/3, so it's not worth trying to >> pretend that they did. >> > I thought that you're not meant to check for equality when using floats. Equality checking is useful for floats when there is exactly one value that you want to test for as in this case, as opposed to a range of approximate values that are considered to be equal within rounding error. There is exactly one float that the expression 0.1 evaluates to, and although it's not equal to the decimal 0.1, it is the only float that we want to format as "0.1". The immediately preceding and following floats are 0.09999999999999999 and 0.10000000000000002, and they are formatted as such because they're not equal to the float that you get from 0.1.
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| From | Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-07-29 22:34 +0300 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.5254.1375126459.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #51449 |
29.07.13 19:09, MRAB написав(ла):
> I'm surprised that Fraction(1/3) != Fraction(1, 3); after all, floats
> are approximate anyway, and the float value 1/3 is more likely to be
> Fraction(1, 3) than Fraction(6004799503160661, 18014398509481984).
>>> def approximate_fraction(f):
prev_numer, numer = 0, 1
prev_denom, denom = 1, 0
r = f
while True:
i = math.floor(r)
prev_numer, numer = numer, i * numer + prev_numer
prev_denom, denom = denom, i * denom + prev_denom
if i == r or numer / denom == f:
break
r = 1 / (r - i)
return Fraction(numer, denom)
>>> approximate_fraction(1/3)
Fraction(1, 3)
>>> approximate_fraction(1e-17)
Fraction(1, 100000000000000000)
>>> approximate_fraction(math.pi)
Fraction(245850922, 78256779)
I guess the Fraction constructor is more faster than this function.
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