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Dabbling in web development

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  Dabbling in web development bSneddon <w.g.sneddon@gmail.com> - 2015-11-19 13:53 -0800
    Re: Dabbling in web development Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-11-19 15:03 -0700
    Re: Dabbling in web development Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-11-19 22:35 +0000
    Re: Dabbling in web development Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-11-19 23:53 +0100
      Re: Dabbling in web development Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-11-20 01:07 +0200
        Re: Dabbling in web development Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-11-20 00:28 +0100
    Re: Dabbling in web development Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-11-20 10:09 +1100
    Re: Dabbling in web development Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-11-20 00:20 +0100
    Re: Dabbling in web development Dietmar Schwertberger <maillist@schwertberger.de> - 2015-11-20 00:02 +0100
      Re: Dabbling in web development bSneddon <w.g.sneddon@gmail.com> - 2015-11-20 10:01 -0800

#99098 — Dabbling in web development

I know there are a plethora of web frameworks out there for Python and to be serious about website developement I should learn on like Django.   Really thought, I just want to dabble and do some easy stuff.   Does anyone have any suggestons?   I have a a website hosted with a hosting company who is supposed to have python support but hard to know what they have installed on there apache server.   I have seen a few examples out there but not too many.  

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#99099

On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 2:53 PM, bSneddon <w.g.sneddon@gmail.com> wrote:
> I know there are a plethora of web frameworks out there for Python and to be serious about website developement I should learn on like Django.   Really thought, I just want to dabble and do some easy stuff.   Does anyone have any suggestons?   I have a a website hosted with a hosting company who is supposed to have python support but hard to know what they have installed on there apache server.   I have seen a few examples out there but not too many.

Flask is a good choice if you're just looking for something easy to get going.

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#99100

On 19/11/2015 21:53, bSneddon wrote:
> I know there are a plethora of web frameworks out there for Python and to be serious about website developement I should learn on like Django.   Really thought, I just want to dabble and do some easy stuff.   Does anyone have any suggestons?   I have a a website hosted with a hosting company who is supposed to have python support but hard to know what they have installed on there apache server.   I have seen a few examples out there but not too many.
>

Take a look at "Popular Non Full-Stack Frameworks" here 
https://wiki.python.org/moin/WebFrameworks

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence

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#99102

In a message of Thu, 19 Nov 2015 13:53:09 -0800, bSneddon writes:

>I know there are a plethora of web frameworks out there for Python
 and to be serious about website developement I should learn on like
 Django.  Really thought, I just want to dabble and do some easy
 stuff.  Does anyone have any suggestons?  I have a a website hosted
 with a hosting company who is supposed to have python support but
 hard to know what they have installed on there apache server.  I have
 seen a few examples out there but not too many.

There are lots of other choices than Django.  

see: https://wiki.python.org/moin/WebFrameworks/

The big split is whether you want a large framework, like Django, which
comes with all the batteries included, or a micro framework, like
Flask and Bottle, which gives you more control and is a whole lot
simpler.  

It is not the case that 'serious website developers use heavyweight
systems like Django' --- lots and lots of serious developers use 
Flask or Bottle because Django makes you do it the Django way.
Flask lets you do it however you like.  Professionally, our company
has designed a ton of websites and we use Flask nearly all of the
time, and Pylons the rest of the time.  If your brain is well-suited
for Django, by all means use that, but if it is not, then do something 
else.

I teach kids who are 9-12 years old, weekends.
Hosting their own site to support pictures of their pets is a very
common thing to want to do.

I have translated this:
http://bottlepy.org/docs/dev/tutorial.html

into Swedish and we tend to get a website up and running in 3 weekends
of thinking and coding.  (This is with kids who already know Python.
Learning enough python to do this takes longer, a whole lot longer
if you only get to code on weekends -- but most of the kids who want
to do this are also willing to write code on weekdays as well.)

Laura

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#99105

Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se>:

> There are lots of other choices than Django.  
>
> see: https://wiki.python.org/moin/WebFrameworks/

However, are there any good web applications? I have seen some heroic
attempts but most fail miserably or at least have some annoying
glitches.

The cardinal sin of web development seems to be micromanagement. Instead
of letting the web standards do their work, the application wants to be
in full control with JavaScript and XML HTTP requests. The results can
be awe-inspiring but at the same time fail at the basics. For example,
select/copy with the mouse might not work. Fonts might be garbled. Half
the page might be invisible and unscrollable. Or nothing will be
displayed at all.


Marko

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#99108

In a message of Fri, 20 Nov 2015 01:07:24 +0200, Marko Rauhamaa writes:
>Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se>:
>
>> There are lots of other choices than Django.  
>>
>> see: https://wiki.python.org/moin/WebFrameworks/
>
>However, are there any good web applications? I have seen some heroic
>attempts but most fail miserably or at least have some annoying
>glitches.
>
>The cardinal sin of web development seems to be micromanagement. Instead
>of letting the web standards do their work, the application wants to be
>in full control with JavaScript and XML HTTP requests. The results can
>be awe-inspiring but at the same time fail at the basics. For example,
>select/copy with the mouse might not work. Fonts might be garbled. Half
>the page might be invisible and unscrollable. Or nothing will be
>displayed at all.
>
>
>Marko

But you see that whether or not you use a Heavy framework like
Django or a Microframework like Flask (which is all about how
to serve such things up .... how you butcher the results is
your own business.)

Web design is a lot harder than most people who make webpages think.

So what else is new?

Laura

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#99106

On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 9:53 AM, Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> wrote:
> It is not the case that 'serious website developers use heavyweight
> systems like Django' --- lots and lots of serious developers use
> Flask or Bottle because Django makes you do it the Django way.
> Flask lets you do it however you like.  Professionally, our company
> has designed a ton of websites and we use Flask nearly all of the
> time, and Pylons the rest of the time.  If your brain is well-suited
> for Django, by all means use that, but if it is not, then do something
> else.
>
> I teach kids who are 9-12 years old, weekends.
> Hosting their own site to support pictures of their pets is a very
> common thing to want to do.

To add to the Flask recommendation: I teach adults (mostly; one of my
students is in high school) to use Python, SQLAlchemy, and Flask,
putting together a classic dynamic web site model. (I also use Flask
myself for a couple of sites, and I like it; but that recommendation
is weak because I don't have much experience with *other* frameworks.
So all it means is "Flask hasn't majorly annoyed me".)

ChrisA

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#99107

In a message of Fri, 20 Nov 2015 10:09:01 +1100, Chris Angelico writes:
>On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 9:53 AM, Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> wrote:
>> It is not the case that 'serious website developers use heavyweight
>> systems like Django' --- lots and lots of serious developers use
>> Flask or Bottle because Django makes you do it the Django way.
>> Flask lets you do it however you like.  Professionally, our company
>> has designed a ton of websites and we use Flask nearly all of the
>> time, and Pylons the rest of the time.  If your brain is well-suited
>> for Django, by all means use that, but if it is not, then do something
>> else.
>>
>> I teach kids who are 9-12 years old, weekends.
>> Hosting their own site to support pictures of their pets is a very
>> common thing to want to do.
>
>To add to the Flask recommendation: I teach adults (mostly; one of my
>students is in high school) to use Python, SQLAlchemy, and Flask,
>putting together a classic dynamic web site model. (I also use Flask
>myself for a couple of sites, and I like it; but that recommendation
>is weak because I don't have much experience with *other* frameworks.
>So all it means is "Flask hasn't majorly annoyed me".)
>
>ChrisA

Well, I highly recommend Flask, but the tutorial was for a
different microframework, 'Bottle'.

At the time I first collected the kids, it was a better tutorial.
Now, I suspect, there are lots of great ones for both of them.
But for me, the effort of translating any tutorial into Swedish
is huge.  Especially since I need to take a reputation hit with
every Swedish grammatical error my students find.  :)  The
students of 3 years ago have fixed my Swedish problems, mostly,
I think by now in this tutorial.

Being able to speak Swedish colloquially and read it does not 
mean you can write or translate it well enough to get your product
past the hyper-critical eyes of 11-year-olds who want evidence 
that this teacher, unlike so many others, can deliver the promised
goods. :)

Laura

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#99109

Am 19.11.2015 um 22:53 schrieb bSneddon:
> I know there are a plethora of web frameworks out there for Python and to be serious about website developement I should learn on like Django.   Really thought, I just want to dabble and do some easy stuff.   Does anyone have any suggestons?   I have a a website hosted with a hosting company who is supposed to have python support but hard to know what they have installed on there apache server.   I have seen a few examples out there but not too many.
Maybe, you should have a look at the book "Lightweight Django".

Regards,

Dietmar

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#99176

Thanks all!

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