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HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code??

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  HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? Xrrific <xiaokun3@gmail.com> - 2015-03-04 17:34 -0800
    Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? Marcos Almeida Azevedo <marcos.al.azevedo@gmail.com> - 2015-03-05 09:37 +0800
      Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? sohcahtoa82@gmail.com - 2015-03-04 17:44 -0800
    Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2015-03-04 20:46 -0500
    Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2015-03-04 20:50 -0500
    Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? Ryan Stuart <ryan.stuart.85@gmail.com> - 2015-03-05 02:00 +0000
    Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2015-03-05 13:22 +1100
    Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-03-05 03:44 +0100
    Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? sohcahtoa82@gmail.com - 2015-03-04 18:50 -0800
      Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-05 14:00 +1100
        Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? sohcahtoa82@gmail.com - 2015-03-05 10:28 -0800
          Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2015-03-06 05:46 +1100
            Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-06 09:15 +1100
              Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2015-03-06 09:59 +1100
                Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-06 13:53 +1100
                  Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2015-03-06 14:23 +1100
                    Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-06 11:53 +0000
                      Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-03-06 09:17 -0700
                      Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-06 16:35 +0000
                      Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-07 04:03 +1100
                        Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2015-03-07 10:22 +1100
                      Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2015-03-07 18:06 +1300
                        Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-03-06 21:27 -0800
                        Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2015-03-08 05:19 +0000
                          Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? hamilton <hamilton@nothere.com> - 2015-03-07 23:54 -0700
                  Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-06 14:37 +1100
                    Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-03-06 08:49 -0800
                  How fast does your grass grow?  [was Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code??] Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2015-03-05 19:48 -0800
                  Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-06 03:59 +0000
                  Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2015-03-06 18:57 +1100
                  Re: How fast does your grass grow? [was Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code??] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-06 15:04 +1100
              Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-05 23:07 +0000
      Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-03-05 20:46 -0500
      Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? llanitedave <llanitedave@birdandflower.com> - 2015-03-06 08:25 -0800
    Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? km <srikrishnamohan@gmail.com> - 2015-03-05 11:28 +0530
    Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? Tim <jtim.arnold@gmail.com> - 2015-03-09 06:20 -0700
    Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? Omar Abou Mrad <omar.aboumrad@gmail.com> - 2015-03-09 15:39 +0200
    Re: HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code?? Jonas Wielicki <jonas@wielicki.name> - 2015-03-09 20:12 +0100

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#86920 — HELP!! How to ask a girl out with a simple witty Python code??

Guys, please Help!!!

I am trying to impress a girl who is learning python and want ask her out at the same time.

Could you please come up with something witty incorporating a simple python line like If...then... but..etc.

You will make me a very happy man!!!

Thank you very much!!!

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#86921

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Why does it need to be nerdy. Why not just buy her a good book on Python?

On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 9:34 AM, Xrrific <xiaokun3@gmail.com> wrote:

> Guys, please Help!!!
>
> I am trying to impress a girl who is learning python and want ask her out
> at the same time.
>
> Could you please come up with something witty incorporating a simple
> python line like If...then... but..etc.
>
> You will make me a very happy man!!!
>
> Thank you very much!!!
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Marcos | I love PHP, Linux, and Java
<http://javadevnotes.com/java-long-to-string-examples>

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#86922

Something something don't top post.  Add responses to the bottom.  BLah blah blah

On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 at 5:37:55 PM UTC-8, Marcos Almeida Azevedo wrote:
> Why does it need to be nerdy. Why not just buy her a good book on Python?
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 9:34 AM, Xrrific <xiao...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Guys, please Help!!!
> 
> 
> 
> I am trying to impress a girl who is learning python and want ask her out at the same time.
> 
> 
> 
> Could you please come up with something witty incorporating a simple python line like If...then... but..etc.
> 
> 
> 
> You will make me a very happy man!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you very much!!!
> 
> --
> 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> 
> Marcos | I love PHP, Linux, and Java

Because nothing is quite as romantic as a Python book, right?

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#86923

In article <8c09473e-92df-40ac-b083-d2b3a2b75188@googlegroups.com>,
 Xrrific <xiaokun3@gmail.com> wrote:

> Guys, please Help!!!
> 
> I am trying to impress a girl who is learning python and want ask her out at 
> the same time.
> 
> Could you please come up with something witty incorporating a simple python 
> line like If...then... but..etc.
> 
> You will make me a very happy man!!!
> 
> Thank you very much!!!

I don't know about witty, but I'm sure you guys will make a cute tuple.

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#86924

On 3/4/2015 8:34 PM, Xrrific wrote:
> Guys, please Help!!!

Gals might know better how to impress a girl.

> I am trying to impress a girl who is learning python and want ask her out at the same time.

Start by not being sexist about the fitness of females for Python 
programming.  Make sure she knows that at least parts of the Python 
community welcomes anybody and everybody.  PyLadies is one example of that.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy

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#86925

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Thu, 5 Mar 2015 at 11:35 Xrrific <xiaokun3@gmail.com> wrote:

> Could you please come up with something witty incorporating a simple
> python line like If...then... but..etc.
>

Send her this:

import base64
print(base64.b64decode('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'))

Cheers


>
> You will make me a very happy man!!!
>
> Thank you very much!!!
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

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#86926

Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> writes:

> On 3/4/2015 8:34 PM, Xrrific wrote:
> > I am trying to impress a girl who is learning python and want ask
> > her out at the same time.
>
> Start by not being sexist about the fitness of females for Python
> programming. Make sure she knows that at least parts of the Python
> community welcomes anybody and everybody.

Impress her by approaching her with the intent to befriend her.

Demonstrate that, by learning Python, she hasn't exposed herself to more
men trying to “ask her out” as a result. That would really make a good
impression.

-- 
 \      “The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not |
  `\              you believe in it.” —Neil deGrasse Tyson, 2011-02-04 |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney

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#86927

On Wed, 4 Mar 2015 17:34:04 -0800 (PST), Xrrific <xiaokun3@gmail.com>
wrote:
>I am trying to impress a girl who is learning python and want ask her out at the same time.
>
>Could you please come up with something witty incorporating a simple python line like If...then... but..etc.

How about not using python at all. Not even talking about it, unless
she brings it up. And if she brings it up you say that there's perhaps
better things for you two to be doing than talking about programming?

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#86928

On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 at 5:34:16 PM UTC-8, Xrrific wrote:
> Guys, please Help!!!
> 
> I am trying to impress a girl who is learning python and want ask her out at the same time.
> 
> Could you please come up with something witty incorporating a simple python line like If...then... but..etc.
> 
> You will make me a very happy man!!!
> 
> Thank you very much!!!

You're asking a bunch of nerds for dating advice?

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#86929

On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 1:50 PM,  <sohcahtoa82@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 at 5:34:16 PM UTC-8, Xrrific wrote:
>> Guys, please Help!!!
>>
>> I am trying to impress a girl who is learning python and want ask her out at the same time.
>>
>> Could you please come up with something witty incorporating a simple python line like If...then... but..etc.
>>
>> You will make me a very happy man!!!
>>
>> Thank you very much!!!
>
> You're asking a bunch of nerds for dating advice?

Some of these nerds are married, others have at least had a successful
romantic life. Granted, dating advice isn't _quite_ on-topic for
python-list, but still, I'm sure there are plenty of people here who
are not the stereotypical nerd "all brains, no ..." that Chris Knight
didn't want to appear as.

ChrisA

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#86947

On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 at 7:08:34 PM UTC-8, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 1:50 PM,  <sohcahtoa82@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 at 5:34:16 PM UTC-8, Xrrific wrote:
> >> Guys, please Help!!!
> >>
> >> I am trying to impress a girl who is learning python and want ask her out at the same time.
> >>
> >> Could you please come up with something witty incorporating a simple python line like If...then... but..etc.
> >>
> >> You will make me a very happy man!!!
> >>
> >> Thank you very much!!!
> >
> > You're asking a bunch of nerds for dating advice?
> 
> Some of these nerds are married, others have at least had a successful
> romantic life. Granted, dating advice isn't _quite_ on-topic for
> python-list, but still, I'm sure there are plenty of people here who
> are not the stereotypical nerd "all brains, no ..." that Chris Knight
> didn't want to appear as.
> 
> ChrisA

I should have known better than to make a joke on this mailing list.  Someone is bound to get their panties all up in a bunch.

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#86949

sohcahtoa82@gmail.com writes:

> I should have known better than to make a joke on this mailing list.
> Someone is bound to get their panties all up in a bunch.

You should have known better than to make gendered slurs. Claiming “it
was a joke” doesn't alter the sexism of your remarks. Cut that out.

-- 
 \         “True greatness is measured by how much freedom you give to |
  `\      others, not by how much you can coerce others to do what you |
_o__)                                               want.” —Larry Wall |
Ben Finney

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#86957

Ben Finney wrote:

> sohcahtoa82@gmail.com writes:
> 
>> I should have known better than to make a joke on this mailing list.
>> Someone is bound to get their panties all up in a bunch.
> 
> You should have known better than to make gendered slurs. Claiming “it
> was a joke” doesn't alter the sexism of your remarks. Cut that out.

"You're asking a bunch of nerds for dating advice?"

Sohcatoa's lousy joke applies to all sexes equally, whether they are male,
female, intersex, or indeed non-gendered advanced alien intelligences.
(Possibly not *that* advanced if they are hanging around here...)

Sorry to say that the only sexism displayed here is your apparent assumption
that nerds are all [fe]male, or that the people on this list are all
[fe]males. Both men and women can be nerds too, and I know people of both
cis-genders and at least three of trans-genders who are clueless about
dating. Funnily enough, all but one of them are nerds of one type or
another.

Despite the efforts of a lot of neo-Victorian feminists determined to repeat
the sins of the past, "sexism" does not mean "anything even vaguely related
to sexual activity or the potential for sexual activity". Nor is any mild
joke made at the (self-)expense of some random subgroup of people "sexism",
whether than joke is based on a stereotype or not.



-- 
Steven

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#86960

Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> writes:

> Ben Finney wrote:
>
> > sohcahtoa82@gmail.com writes:
> > 
> >> I should have known better than to make a joke on this mailing
> >> list. Someone is bound to get their panties all up in a bunch.
> > 
> > You should have known better than to make gendered slurs. Claiming
> > “it was a joke” doesn't alter the sexism of your remarks. Cut that
> > out.
>
> "You're asking a bunch of nerds for dating advice?"

“get their panties all up in a bunch” is a gendered slur. It is implying
the person is female, as though the person should feel insulted by that.
It uses the female gender as an insult.

That's not welcoming to anyone female, and we should all be welcoming to
anyone of any gender here — which includes not using any gender as the
punch-line of a joke.

-- 
 \         “Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?” “I think so, |
  `\    Brain, but Zero Mostel times anything will still give you Zero |
_o__)                                  Mostel.” —_Pinky and The Brain_ |
Ben Finney

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#86974

Ben Finney wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> writes:
> 
>> Ben Finney wrote:
>>
>> > sohcahtoa82@gmail.com writes:
>> > 
>> >> I should have known better than to make a joke on this mailing
>> >> list. Someone is bound to get their panties all up in a bunch.
>> > 
>> > You should have known better than to make gendered slurs. Claiming
>> > “it was a joke” doesn't alter the sexism of your remarks. Cut that
>> > out.
>>
>> "You're asking a bunch of nerds for dating advice?"
> 
> “get their panties all up in a bunch” is a gendered slur. 

Ah, sorry about misunderstanding you. It wasn't clear to me that you were
referring to that specific comment rather than the original comment.


> It is implying 
> the person is female, as though the person should feel insulted by that.
> It uses the female gender as an insult.

Why do you interpret that as insulting to women merely on the basis of being
*female*?

Wearing panties/knickers is something anyone can do, of any gender and
sexual orientation. "Panties in a bunch" (or "knickers in a twist") is a
put-down on the basis of excessive sensitivity, not femaleness.

It seems to me that far from challenging sexual stereotypes, mainstream
feminist thought actually *reinforces* it: as evidence, you assumed that
only women wear panties, therefore any reference to panty-wearing is
therefore a slur on women.

It's only gender specific if you accept the sexist gendered stereotype that
all women are by definition thin-skinned and excessively sensitive. The
women I know are nothing like that, and consequently most of them are quite
happy to use "knickers in a twist" as a *non-gendered* put-down on the
basis of perceived behaviour, not sex.

It seems to my wife, and I agree with her, that mainstream feminism has lost
its way and is no longer about gender equality, but is now about enforcing
a neo-Victorian pseudo-politeness where nobody ever has to be exposed to
anything uncomfortable or that threatens to disturb them out of their
comfort zone. Hence the focus on codes of conduct, so-called "safe places",
trigger warnings and the like. Once upon a time, a safe place meant
somewhere where a battered woman could take shelter from her batterer. Now,
it apparently means a way to ostracise an actor for his personal religious
beliefs. (I'm referring to the Internet storm-in-a-teacup over Adam Baldwin
at Supanova.)

I do not buy into that philosophy, and neither do most of the woman I know.



-- 
Steven

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#86977

Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> writes:

> Ben Finney wrote:
>
> > “get their panties all up in a bunch” is a gendered slur. 
>
> Why do you interpret that as insulting to women merely on the basis of
> being *female*?

I think your question is in bad faith. You know as well as I do, and I'm
confident the person who wrote the slur knows, that “panties” strongly
connotes *female* underwear.

> It seems to me that far from challenging sexual stereotypes,
> mainstream feminist thought actually *reinforces* it: as evidence, you
> assumed that only women wear panties, therefore any reference to
> panty-wearing is therefore a slur on women.

No. I'm saying that it's clear the person saying “get their panties all
up in a bunch” fully intends to convey specifically *female* underwear,
and thereby to use implied femininity as an insult.

Yes, of course I know some people who aren't female wear panties. Yes,
of course I know some women wear underwear that isn't panties. Don't try
to change the topic with absurd logical extremes that I didn't raise.

I'm talking about the implication of the comment as a gendered insult.

> It's only gender specific if you accept the sexist gendered stereotype
> that all women are by definition thin-skinned and excessively
> sensitive.

Bullshit. I said nothing about the sensitivity of anyone. Individual
women you may know – even *all* women, everywhere – could be as tough as
nails, and it doesn't address the point I'm raising.

Whether any particular woman is targeted or not, the comment I'm
responding to invokes female gender as an implied insult. That's
unwelcoming to women, and I don't want such unwelcoming attitudes in
this community.

-- 
 \     “Too many pieces of music finish too long after the end.” —Igor |
  `\                                                       Stravinskey |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney

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#87016

On Fri, 06 Mar 2015 14:23:22 +1100, Ben Finney wrote:

> 
> No. I'm saying that it's clear the person saying “get their panties all
> up in a bunch” fully intends to convey specifically *female* underwear,
> and thereby to use implied femininity as an insult.
> 
> Yes, of course I know some people who aren't female wear panties. Yes,
> of course I know some women wear underwear that isn't panties. Don't try
> to change the topic with absurd logical extremes that I didn't raise.
> 
> I'm talking about the implication of the comment as a gendered insult.
> 
>> It's only gender specific if you accept the sexist gendered stereotype
>> that all women are by definition thin-skinned and excessively
>> sensitive.
> 
> Bullshit. I said nothing about the sensitivity of anyone. Individual
> women you may know – even *all* women, everywhere – could be as tough as
> nails, and it doesn't address the point I'm raising.
> 
> Whether any particular woman is targeted or not, the comment I'm
> responding to invokes female gender as an implied insult. That's
> unwelcoming to women, and I don't want such unwelcoming attitudes in
> this community.

I have not seen one female poster on this site claim to be offended by 
the comment or even consider it to be a slur.

I doubt that the original poster of the comment intended it to be either 
& most people reading it would have known that (regardless of their 
gender)

one thing i personally find offensive is when someone raises an issue on 
someone else's behalf because they THINK they MIGHT get offended without 
bothering to check.

I am not female so this particular instance does not relate to me but an 
example from a few years ago was when a popular UK soap made an extreme 
effort not to show a cross or Christmas tree during a church wedding in 
case it "offended not-Christians".

I am a non-Christian & found that decision offensive.




-- 
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for.

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#87031

On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 4:53 AM, alister
<alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> I have not seen one female poster on this site claim to be offended by
> the comment or even consider it to be a slur.
>
> I doubt that the original poster of the comment intended it to be either
> & most people reading it would have known that (regardless of their
> gender)
>
> one thing i personally find offensive is when someone raises an issue on
> someone else's behalf because they THINK they MIGHT get offended without
> bothering to check.

"Offended" is a rather vacuous term. It describes a distraught
emotional state without any attempt to reason about what actual
problem might exist. Too often somebody simply says "I'm offended by
X" and then a lot of people kowtow to that statement as if it in
itself were a reason to check behavior.

But that doesn't make it unimportant to measure the kinds of messages
that our actions send, and that's not what's going on here. Ben has
clearly laid out how the comment creates an unwelcoming environment to
women and so marginalizes them. That's a problem even if no women are
speaking up about the comment, because a) there may be some who find
the comment troubling but are unwilling to speak up about it
("suffering in silence"), and b) it doesn't even matter if somebody
says that they don't mind being insulted; it still creates a problem
and it's still not socially acceptable to insult them.


> I am not female so this particular instance does not relate to me but an
> example from a few years ago was when a popular UK soap made an extreme
> effort not to show a cross or Christmas tree during a church wedding in
> case it "offended not-Christians".
>
> I am a non-Christian & found that decision offensive.

I agree that example sounds idiotic. Where is the problem with
depicting Christian paraphernalia in a clearly Christian setting?
There is a great difference between showing Christian imagery and
showing a world that is exclusionary of or hostile to non-Christians.

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#87038

On 06/03/2015 11:53, alister wrote:
> On Fri, 06 Mar 2015 14:23:22 +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
>
>>
>> No. I'm saying that it's clear the person saying “get their panties all
>> up in a bunch” fully intends to convey specifically *female* underwear,
>> and thereby to use implied femininity as an insult.
>>
>> Yes, of course I know some people who aren't female wear panties. Yes,
>> of course I know some women wear underwear that isn't panties. Don't try
>> to change the topic with absurd logical extremes that I didn't raise.
>>
>> I'm talking about the implication of the comment as a gendered insult.
>>
>>> It's only gender specific if you accept the sexist gendered stereotype
>>> that all women are by definition thin-skinned and excessively
>>> sensitive.
>>
>> Bullshit. I said nothing about the sensitivity of anyone. Individual
>> women you may know – even *all* women, everywhere – could be as tough as
>> nails, and it doesn't address the point I'm raising.
>>
>> Whether any particular woman is targeted or not, the comment I'm
>> responding to invokes female gender as an implied insult. That's
>> unwelcoming to women, and I don't want such unwelcoming attitudes in
>> this community.
>
> I have not seen one female poster on this site claim to be offended by
> the comment or even consider it to be a slur.
>
> I doubt that the original poster of the comment intended it to be either
> & most people reading it would have known that (regardless of their
> gender)
>
> one thing i personally find offensive is when someone raises an issue on
> someone else's behalf because they THINK they MIGHT get offended without
> bothering to check.
>
> I am not female so this particular instance does not relate to me but an
> example from a few years ago was when a popular UK soap made an extreme
> effort not to show a cross or Christmas tree during a church wedding in
> case it "offended not-Christians".
>
> I am a non-Christian & found that decision offensive.
>

When a UK TV station showed the Dam Busters film some years ago and 
edited out the part about the burial of Guy Gibson's dog, I wasn't 
offended, I was downright livid.  How dare they distort history in an 
attempt to avoid offending people.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence

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#87044

alister wrote:

> I have not seen one female poster on this site claim to be offended by
> the comment or even consider it to be a slur.


In fairness to Ben, it must be recognised that there are very few women
here, and that is a problem Ben (and I) would like to rectify. We just
disagree on the root cause of that, and whether or not mild put-downs such
as the one in question are part of the cause or not.

(Well, I call it a "mild put-down". Ben may or may not agree that it is
mild.)


-- 
Steven

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