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Re: how to install lxml in window xp?

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  Re: how to install lxml in window xp? Tamer Higazi <th982a@googlemail.com> - 2012-01-12 12:24 +0100
    Re: how to install lxml in window xp? alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-01-12 18:50 -0800
      Zealotry [was Re: how to install lxml in window xp?] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-01-13 05:02 +0000
        Re: Zealotry [was Re: how to install lxml in window xp?] alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-01-12 21:41 -0800
          Re: Zealotry [was Re: how to install lxml in window xp?] Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2012-01-13 08:51 +0100
          Re: Zealotry [was Re: how to install lxml in window xp?] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-01-13 18:57 +1100
          Re: Zealotry [was Re: how to install lxml in window xp?] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-01-13 11:22 +0000
        Re: Zealotry [was Re: how to install lxml in window xp?] alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-01-12 21:47 -0800
          Re: Zealotry [was Re: how to install lxml in window xp?] Noah Hall <noah.hall@fuduntu.org> - 2012-01-13 07:29 +0000
          Re: Zealotry [was Re: how to install lxml in window xp?] (OT) Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2012-01-13 08:54 +0100
          Re: Zealotry [was Re: how to install lxml in window xp?] (OT) Noah Hall <enalicho@gmail.com> - 2012-01-13 08:20 +0000
        Re: Zealotry Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2012-01-13 17:02 +1100
          Re: Zealotry Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-01-13 17:17 +1100
          Re: Zealotry Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel@sequans.com> - 2012-01-13 11:34 +0100
          Re: Zealotry Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-01-13 21:51 +1100
          Re: Zealotry Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel@sequans.com> - 2012-01-13 13:11 +0100
            Re: Zealotry Tony the Tiger <tony@tiger.invalid> - 2012-01-13 18:49 -0600
        Re: Zealotry [was Re: how to install lxml in window xp?] John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2012-01-13 15:32 +0000
          Re: Zealotry [was Re: how to install lxml in window xp?] Tamer Higazi <th982a@googlemail.com> - 2012-01-13 21:07 +0100
          Re: Zealotry [was Re: how to install lxml in window xp?] Noah Hall <noah.hall@fuduntu.org> - 2012-01-13 20:42 +0000
          Re: Zealotry [was Re: how to install lxml in window xp?] Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-01-13 21:39 -0500
          Re: Zealotry [was Re: how to install lxml in window xp?] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-01-14 04:19 +0000
          Re: Zealotry [was Re: how to install lxml in window xp?] Noah Hall <noah.hall@fuduntu.org> - 2012-01-14 13:44 +0000

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#18872 — Re: how to install lxml in window xp?

Am 12.01.2012 06:08, schrieb Brian Curtin:
> On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 23:01, Tamer Higazi <th982a@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> Use Linux!
>> Specially Gentoo Linux!
> 
> Not a useful answer.
then take windows 7 instead of something that is no more supported by
the vendor itself.

I am running Python 64Bit on my Windows machine and almost every library
could have been installed my sides with the MSSDK and the Visual C++
2008 Express Edition compiler in the background, that tasks are invoked
automatically by easy_install.

So, instead of making yourself continuously headache for an outdated OS
I advise taking a low performance OS like, let us say, xubunutu that has
a light environment instead of gnome3 or kde4 for a WindowsXP designed CPU.



Tamer

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#18889

Tamer Higazi <th9...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> So, instead of making yourself continuously headache for an outdated OS
> I advise [...]

Please don't recommend people use another OS when they ask an explicit
question about a particular OS. It just makes you come across as a
zealot.

Not everyone is working within an environment that they control. I'm
aware of quite a few local government agencies that will be stuck on
XP for quite some time, expecting any employee of such organisations
to install whatever they want on their computers is laughable.

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#18892 — Zealotry [was Re: how to install lxml in window xp?]

On Thu, 12 Jan 2012 18:50:13 -0800, alex23 wrote:

> Tamer Higazi <th9...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> So, instead of making yourself continuously headache for an outdated OS
>> I advise [...]
> 
> Please don't recommend people use another OS when they ask an explicit
> question about a particular OS. It just makes you come across as a
> zealot.

Why is it that only Linux and Mac users are accused of being "zealots"? 
If I ask how to install (say) MYOB or Photoshop on Linux, and people tell 
me that I will have to use Windows if I want to easily run that software, 
I don't accuse them of being a zealot.

I've had Quicken tell me that Quickbooks can only store its data files on 
a Windows file server. The fact that I've been successfully running it in 
a VM with the data files stored on a Samba file share without any 
problems proves them wrong, but if I accused Quicken technical support of 
being "zealots" I'd be considered a loon. Yet Windows users get away with 
calling others zealots all the time.

 
> Not everyone is working within an environment that they control. I'm
> aware of quite a few local government agencies that will be stuck on XP
> for quite some time, expecting any employee of such organisations to
> install whatever they want on their computers is laughable.

That may be true, but the advice remains reasonable advice. If somebody 
asks you how to get from Iceland to Norway by car, it is perfectly 
reasonable to tell them that they will find it much easier to use a plane 
or boat. The existence of people who, for whatever reason, can't or won't 
use a plane or boat doesn't change the fact that using a car will be 
extremely difficult, if not impossible.

Some Windows users are so used to being the centre of the computing 
universe that any time they hit a problem that is easier to solve on 
another OS, and people dare remind them of that fact, they get their nose 
out of joint.

If your OS does everything you need it to do, great. I personally am 
happy running Windows Server 2000 for my needs, and don't need any 
Windows software that doesn't run on it. But my sympathies go out to 
those who are stuck (for whatever reason) on an OS (of any flavour) that 
doesn't do what they want. Just don't blame the messenger.



-- 
Steven

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#18893 — Re: Zealotry [was Re: how to install lxml in window xp?]

On Jan 13, 3:02 pm, Steven D'Aprano <steve
+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info> wrote:
> Why is it that only Linux and Mac users are accused of being "zealots"?

Oh please. Don't tar me with the Windows brush. I'd have used the same
term no matter what OS was being recommended.

> If I ask how to install (say) MYOB or Photoshop on Linux, and people tell
> me that I will have to use Windows if I want to easily run that software,
> I don't accuse them of being a zealot.

And if lxml didn't have Windows binaries, then maybe this would be the
case.

[snippety snippety to the rest of your straw men]

> That may be true, but the advice remains reasonable advice. If somebody
> asks you how to get from Iceland to Norway by car, it is perfectly
> reasonable to tell them that they will find it much easier to use a plane
> or boat.

In what way is downloading pre-built binaries and then installing lxml
on Windows like driving across the ocean?

This is a new low in pedantry for you.

> Some Windows users are so used to being the centre of the computing
> universe that any time they hit a problem that is easier to solve on
> another OS, and people dare remind them of that fact, they get their nose
> out of joint.

Because suggesting people ditch their environment whenever they hit a
single bit of friction - whether it's one they've chosen or had forced
upon them - is absolutely ridiculous. And believe me, _no_ user of
Windows' Python would ever make the mistake of thinking they were the
centre of _that_ world.

Recommending another OS to a clearly phrased problem is the IT
equivalent of the old joke about the doctor saying "well don't do that
then". It doesn't do _anything_ to address the actual problem the
person is trying to solve.

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#18902 — Re: Zealotry [was Re: how to install lxml in window xp?]

alex23, 13.01.2012 06:41:
> On Jan 13, 3:02 pm, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> Why is it that only Linux and Mac users are accused of being "zealots"?
> 
> Oh please. Don't tar me with the Windows brush. I'd have used the same
> term no matter what OS was being recommended.
> 
>> If I ask how to install (say) MYOB or Photoshop on Linux, and people tell
>> me that I will have to use Windows if I want to easily run that software,
>> I don't accuse them of being a zealot.
> 
> And if lxml didn't have Windows binaries, then maybe this would be the
> case. [...]
> In what way is downloading pre-built binaries and then installing lxml
> on Windows like driving across the ocean?

Note the two sides to this problem.

On the one side, there is a Windows user who is unable to easy_install lxml
because the latest binaries are not on PyPI. It's an obvious first reaction
to blame the project for not putting them there.

On the other side, there's the lxml project which can't currently produce
binaries due to the lack of a proper maintainer who has a legal and
properly configured copy of that commercial operating system installed.
It's an obvious first reaction to blame the Windows user who is unable to
configure his/her own system to properly build lxml there.

Who's to blame here? Personally, I think that solving the problem on the
second side is much closer to actually driving across the ocean, whereas
the first side sounds more like it's recommending it. But I guess that's
just because I *am* on the second side.

Now, you are saying that this problem is easily solved by downloading
binary packages from an unknown third-party source and installing them on
your machine. I've already seen requests to upload those specific binaries
to PyPI a couple of times. This appears to be a normal way of thinking
specifically amongst many Windows users, simply because this system trains
them to download opaque binary software packages from arbitrary external
sources in order to install them manually and use them.

Coming from a Linux angle, where signed and trusted software has been the
normal case for more than a decade now, so much that an attempt to install
unsigned or untrusted software actually leads to a clear warning, I cannot
see this as a reasonable recommendation. It may well be that Christoph
Gohlke is generally trustworthy enough to install the software he builds in
a given user setting. However, presenting this as the ultimate solution to
any software installation problems is clear zealotry in my eyes, because it
ignores the fact that software from unknown third-party sources may simply
not be a valid alternative in a given setting, e.g. on a company computer.

As usual, it's not all that easy, but IMHO, recommending to use Linux isn't
that much worse than recommending to install untrusted binary software.

Stefan

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#18903 — Re: Zealotry [was Re: how to install lxml in window xp?]

On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 4:41 PM, alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> wrote:
> Oh please. Don't tar me with the Windows brush.

Wouldn't the Windows brush zip you instead?

ChrisA
definitely ready for the weekend now

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#18908 — Re: Zealotry [was Re: how to install lxml in window xp?]

On Thu, 12 Jan 2012 21:41:29 -0800, alex23 wrote:

> On Jan 13, 3:02 pm, Steven D'Aprano <steve
> +comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info> wrote:
>> Why is it that only Linux and Mac users are accused of being "zealots"?
> 
> Oh please. Don't tar me with the Windows brush. I'd have used the same
> term no matter what OS was being recommended.

I didn't tar you with anything, let alone being a Windows fan-boy. I took 
great care to avoid making any accusations about you. Perhaps you're a 
tad over-sensitive?


>> If I ask how to install (say) MYOB or Photoshop on Linux, and people
>> tell me that I will have to use Windows if I want to easily run that
>> software, I don't accuse them of being a zealot.
> 
> And if lxml didn't have Windows binaries, then maybe this would be the
> case.

The Original Poster was attempting to build lxml binaries under XP. 
Apparently this is difficult enough that the best answer anyone can give 
is "download some pre-built binary from some guy on the Internet, and 
hope it is up to date and works". (I'm paraphrasing from memory.)

It isn't clear to me whether the OP doesn't give a monkey's toss where 
the binaries come from so long as they get installed, or whether he is 
hoping to build them himself (for fun, for education, because he doesn't 
trust some guy on the Internet). If the second case, then "download 
binaries" is no more helpful than "INSTALL LINUX!!!" would be.


> [snippety snippety to the rest of your straw men]

I really get frustrated by people who use "straw man" as a meaningless 
term of abuse for any argument they don't like or disagree with. "Straw 
man argument" has a specific meaning, and it doesn't apply to what I 
wrote: I did not attack a weakened or extreme version of your argument, 
but made a complaint about the double standards in accusations of 
"zealotry".

If you want to accuse me of anything, it is use of weasel words like 
"some Windows users" [citation required]. But not straw man.


>> That may be true, but the advice remains reasonable advice. If somebody
>> asks you how to get from Iceland to Norway by car, it is perfectly
>> reasonable to tell them that they will find it much easier to use a
>> plane or boat.
> 
> In what way is downloading pre-built binaries and then installing lxml
> on Windows like driving across the ocean?

Now *there's* a straw man.

It is *building* the binaries under XP that are like driving across the 
ocean: difficult enough that the best advice given is "leave it to 
someone else".


> This is a new low in pedantry for you.

And misuse of the word pedantry too, tsk tsk. <wink>


>> Some Windows users are so used to being the centre of the computing
>> universe that any time they hit a problem that is easier to solve on
>> another OS, and people dare remind them of that fact, they get their
>> nose out of joint.
> 
> Because suggesting people ditch their environment whenever they hit a
> single bit of friction - whether it's one they've chosen or had forced
> upon them - is absolutely ridiculous. 

Perhaps. It depends on how important the task is, and how much friction 
is there. If the task is important enough, and the friction great enough, 
then it isn't ridiculous at all. My wife ditched KDE 4 as her desktop due 
to a single point of friction: the inability to get Bluetooth working 
correctly.


> And believe me, _no_ user of
> Windows' Python would ever make the mistake of thinking they were the
> centre of _that_ world.

Oh I don't know, I long ago have ceased to be surprised by the narcissism 
of some computer users. 


> Recommending another OS to a clearly phrased problem is the IT
> equivalent of the old joke about the doctor saying "well don't do that
> then". It doesn't do _anything_ to address the actual problem the person
> is trying to solve.

On the contrary, it prevents the symptoms of the problem, which very 
often is good enough, or even the best that can be done.

Look, I'm not and never did defend the *specific* argument that upgrading 
to Windows 7 or cross-grading to Gentoo Linux was the right solution for 
the failure to compile lxml under Windows XP. I've never tried to compile 
lxml at all, and for all I know, it might be *more difficult* under Linux 
than Windows. (Stranger things have happened.) I'm just making a point 
about perceptions of zealotry.



-- 
Steven

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#18894 — Re: Zealotry [was Re: how to install lxml in window xp?]

On Jan 13, 3:02 pm, Steven D'Aprano <steve
+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info> wrote:
> Why is it that only Linux and Mac users are accused of being "zealots"?

Incidentally, in the post I replied to, Tamer was talking about
Windows 7, so there's that too.

Are you just riding out the Friday afternoon clock?

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#18901 — Re: Zealotry [was Re: how to install lxml in window xp?]

On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 5:47 AM, alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 13, 3:02 pm, Steven D'Aprano <steve
> +comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info> wrote:
>> Why is it that only Linux and Mac users are accused of being "zealots"?
>
> Incidentally, in the post I replied to, Tamer was talking about
> Windows 7, so there's that too.

I agree with what you posted.

If there was a single bad thing I would point out to anyone about the
Python community, it would be that there are a huge amount of
"freetards" - people who believe that Linux is the only way, or that
Linux is the best way. Protip: It's not the only way, and it's not
always the best way.

Use what works for you. If Windows works for you, great. Same applies
to every OS. It's not then unreasonable to ask others for support for
that OS - they may not have the ability to provide support, but it's
always good to ask. If you have no choice in the matter, sucks to be
you, but live with it. Worse things have happened than having to use
Windows XP, as much as I *personally* dislike XP.

Claiming that x OS is best, and that every other OS is rubbish is
insane. Different operating systems do things differently, and are
therefore suited for different tasks and for different people.

Suggesting to someone that doing a task is easier on a different OS -
"Yeah, I can't help you but I might I suggest you do Python
development on Linux - these sort of problems are much easier to
handle when you have a package manager system and Linux distros have
awesome Python support"  is fine and perfectly sensible - "USE LINUX
OMFG!111!! YOU'RE SO LAME, WINDOZE SUCKS OMFG YOU N00B! I'M SO COOL
USE MY HARDCORE GENTOO INSTALL THAT TOOK 36 HOURS AND SHAVED 2 SECONDS
OFF MY BOOTUP TIME! LOOK AT THE SPINY COMPIZ CUBE! I DON'T KNOW WHAT I
DID BEFORE I COULD MAKE MY DESKTOP CUBE-Y!", as in the post you
referred to, is not.

I see this kind of nonsense everywhere, but it tends to be in the
Linux and Apple community more - I've no idea why, probably has
something to do with being a minority.

For reference, I am a Linux developer who uses Windows, Linux, *BSD
and OS X, each in a place where it's suitable.

tl;dr - Use what works for you. Suggest, don't preach.

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#18904 — Re: Zealotry [was Re: how to install lxml in window xp?] (OT)

Noah Hall, 13.01.2012 08:29:
> I'M SO COOL
> USE MY HARDCORE GENTOO INSTALL THAT TOOK 36 HOURS AND SHAVED 2 SECONDS
> OFF MY BOOTUP TIME

Just an off-topic thing that your comment above reminded me of: has anyone
ever noticed that there are even quick install guides for Gentoo Linux?

I think that's funny.

Stefan

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#18905 — Re: Zealotry [was Re: how to install lxml in window xp?] (OT)

On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 7:54 AM, Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> wrote:
> Noah Hall, 13.01.2012 08:29:
>> I'M SO COOL
>> USE MY HARDCORE GENTOO INSTALL THAT TOOK 36 HOURS AND SHAVED 2 SECONDS
>> OFF MY BOOTUP TIME
>
> Just an off-topic thing that your comment above reminded me of: has anyone
> ever noticed that there are even quick install guides for Gentoo Linux?

Gentoo Linux - for when life's just too simple.

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#18896 — Re: Zealotry

Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> writes:

> On Thu, 12 Jan 2012 18:50:13 -0800, alex23 wrote:
>
> > Tamer Higazi <th9...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> So, instead of making yourself continuously headache for an
> >> outdated OS I advise [...]
> > 
> > Please don't recommend people use another OS when they ask an
> > explicit question about a particular OS. It just makes you come
> > across as a zealot.
>
> Why is it that only Linux and Mac users are accused of being
> "zealots"? If I ask how to install (say) MYOB or Photoshop on Linux,
> and people tell me that I will have to use Windows if I want to easily
> run that software, I don't accuse them of being a zealot.

Agreed.

Giving a recommendation for a different OS is not zealotry.

Even if it were expressed passionately (and I don't think this case
qualifies), a recommendation of software on its merits is still not
zealotry.

When someone starts being extremely emotional, or even militant, it
might be appropriate to break out the “zealot” label. Short of that,
it's an attempt to slur someone enthusiastically giving advice.

-- 
 \       “I am amazed, O Wall, that you have not collapsed and fallen, |
  `\            since you must bear the tedious stupidities of so many |
_o__)                  scrawlers.” —anonymous graffiti, Pompeii, 79 CE |
Ben Finney

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#18898 — Re: Zealotry

On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 5:02 PM, Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> Giving a recommendation for a different OS is not zealotry.

The line to zealotry is (probably) crossed when _every_ problem is met
with "Install XYZ then".

But that can still be correct. If you're currently using flat files
and NetBEUI to manage your customer names and addresses across the
internet, then every problem you have will be answered with "Migrate
to a real database". Zealotry? Probably. Correct? Yes.

ChrisA

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#18906 — Re: Zealotry

Ben Finney wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> writes:
>
>   
>> On Thu, 12 Jan 2012 18:50:13 -0800, alex23 wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> Tamer Higazi <th9...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>       
>>>> So, instead of making yourself continuously headache for an
>>>> outdated OS I advise [...]
>>>>         
>>> Please don't recommend people use another OS when they ask an
>>> explicit question about a particular OS. It just makes you come
>>> across as a zealot.
>>>       
>> Why is it that only Linux and Mac users are accused of being
>> "zealots"? If I ask how to install (say) MYOB or Photoshop on Linux,
>> and people tell me that I will have to use Windows if I want to easily
>> run that software, I don't accuse them of being a zealot.
>>     
>
> Agreed.
>
> Giving a recommendation for a different OS is not zealotry.
>
> Even if it were expressed passionately (and I don't think this case
> qualifies), a recommendation of software on its merits is still not
> zealotry.
>
> When someone starts being extremely emotional, or even militant, it
> might be appropriate to break out the “zealot” label. Short of that,
> it's an attempt to slur someone enthusiastically giving advice.
>
>   
Recommending an OS to solve one python package installation is zealotry. 
At least, advise to use a virtual machine software to try it out, there 
are some VM softwares for free working with windows.

JM

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#18907 — Re: Zealotry

On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 9:34 PM, Jean-Michel Pichavant
<jeanmichel@sequans.com> wrote:
> Recommending an OS to solve one python package installation is zealotry. At
> least, advise to use a virtual machine software to try it out, there are
> some VM softwares for free working with windows.

If I recommend Python to someone, I don't (usually) care whether he
runs it under Windows or Linux. If I recommend the use of a computer,
I don't care whether he runs it on 220V or 110V. A virtual machine
doesn't have anything to do with the issue, and "install Debian"
doesn't specify _where_. He could replace his Windows, use a
virtualizer, or buy a brand new box for it - makes no diff.

ChrisA

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#18913 — Re: Zealotry

Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 9:34 PM, Jean-Michel Pichavant
> <jeanmichel@sequans.com> wrote:
>   
>> Recommending an OS to solve one python package installation is zealotry. At
>> least, advise to use a virtual machine software to try it out, there are
>> some VM softwares for free working with windows.
>>     
>
> If I recommend Python to someone, I don't (usually) care whether he
> runs it under Windows or Linux. If I recommend the use of a computer,
> I don't care whether he runs it on 220V or 110V. A virtual machine
> doesn't have anything to do with the issue, and "install Debian"
> doesn't specify _where_. He could replace his Windows, use a
> virtualizer, or buy a brand new box for it - makes no diff.
>
> ChrisA
>   
People may not know that they can have multiple OS on the same machine, 
that lowers the cost a lot, that's all I was saying.

JM

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#18953 — Re: Zealotry

On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 13:11:32 +0100, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:

> People may not know that they can have multiple OS on the same machine,
> that lowers the cost a lot, that's all I was saying.

And, not to forget, they can put a Linux on a USB stick. :)


 /Grrr
-- 
          ___                  ___
 (\_--_/)  | _ ._    _|_|_  _   |o _  _ ._
 ( 9  9 )  |(_)| |\/  |_| |(/_  ||(_|(/_|
 stripes are forever - as overripe ferrets

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#18922 — Re: Zealotry [was Re: how to install lxml in window xp?]

In <4f0fbad0$0$29984$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> writes:

> Why is it that only Linux and Mac users are accused of being "zealots"? 

Perhaps because Windows, being in a position of market dominance, doesn't
*need* zealots.

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon@panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"

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#18939 — Re: Zealotry [was Re: how to install lxml in window xp?]

dear people!
I have just opened my MTU client, and figured out that through my
comment, i caused a complete NONSENSE discussion at all.


1. I am not a zealot or whatever. I code on Linux and port it on MAC and
WINDOWS. I do write solutions for customers across the whole 3 platform,
and mostly I succeed because I have to figure out in advance which
software (packages) are being supported and how far.

2. There are many open source projects out (don't ask where, look for
yourself, you are old enough!) as well commercial software vendors who
don't offer their products, or give support for Windows XP.

3. All of you know, that windows xp is by Microsoft not anymore
supported. Neither with Security Updated, Enhancements with Software,
SDK or whatever. and not only XP, also Win95,98,ME, and 2000
Professional (not the server editions).

4. Of course any OS has it's advantages and disadvantages. Gentoo is a
rolling distribution, when it's set up it works nicely. Of course, you
have to invest a lot of effort to get in what doesn't mean that Debian
and Ubuntu, and the others are worse.

Those who want to get packages maintained by others and love to get the
System to run quickly is very good with the other distributions, and
coding on those platforms make fun too.

>From my personal point of view, I will never set up a gentoo machine as
a server in a datacenter, I would rather use BSD Unix. But this is
something that personally everybody has to decide for him/herself.


Now, I hope that I put a line under this discussions and beg the kids
between the age of 18 - 24 who are really impulsive to fire around with
the guns on others to stop this nonsense thread.

That doesn't leave a nice picture in the community.

PS: However, I will read the next mails in the list according this
subject but I will stop commenting it, because it's getting for me too
childish.




Tamer


Am 13.01.2012 16:32, schrieb John Gordon:
> In <4f0fbad0$0$29984$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> writes:
> 
>> Why is it that only Linux and Mac users are accused of being "zealots"? 
> 
> Perhaps because Windows, being in a position of market dominance, doesn't
> *need* zealots.
> 

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#18944 — Re: Zealotry [was Re: how to install lxml in window xp?]

On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 8:07 PM, Tamer Higazi <th982a@googlemail.com> wrote:
> dear people!
> I have just opened my MTU client, and figured out that through my
> comment, i caused a complete NONSENSE discussion at all.
>
>
> 1. I am not a zealot or whatever. I code on Linux and port it on MAC and
> WINDOWS. I do write solutions for customers across the whole 3 platform,
> and mostly I succeed because I have to figure out in advance which
> software (packages) are being supported and how far.

> Use Linux!
> Specially Gentoo Linux!

Screams zealot to me. If not, certainly not a very useful reply.

"Hey guys, I want to cut the bread, can someone tell me how to use the knife?"

"Use a futuristic laser! Build it yourself for the uber 1337 status!"

> 2. There are many open source projects out (don't ask where, look for
> yourself, you are old enough!) as well commercial software vendors who
> don't offer their products, or give support for Windows XP.

More fool them; XP is still (unfortunately) heavily used in workplaces
and in Universities. Luckily, Windows, unlike Linux, is largely
backwards compatible - it's rare to find a program which won't run on
XP if it can run on Vista+, unless it's a game that relies on DX11 or
something.

> 3. All of you know, that windows xp is by Microsoft not anymore
> supported. Neither with Security Updated, Enhancements with Software,
> SDK or whatever. and not only XP, also Win95,98,ME, and 2000
> Professional (not the server editions).

Mainstream support ended, yes, but extended support lasts until 2014.
Extended support is security updates and the like.
http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?C2=1173

> 4. Of course any OS has it's advantages and disadvantages. Gentoo is a
> rolling distribution, when it's set up it works nicely. Of course, you
> have to invest a lot of effort to get in what doesn't mean that Debian
> and Ubuntu, and the others are worse.

Yeah, no. I prefer an operating system that's stable and secure for my
servers and for my development. Call me crazy, but I like to get work
done.

> >From my personal point of view, I will never set up a gentoo machine as
> a server in a datacenter, I would rather use BSD Unix. But this is
> something that personally everybody has to decide for him/herself.

Good boy you! I'm glad you've got some sense, there.

> Now, I hope that I put a line under this discussions and beg the kids
> between the age of 18 - 24 who are really impulsive to fire around with
> the guns on others to stop this nonsense thread.
>
> That doesn't leave a nice picture in the community.

Hate to break it to you, but you started it with

> Use Linux!
> Specially Gentoo Linux!

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