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beginners choice: wx or tk?

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  beginners choice: wx or tk? Ulli Horlacher <framstag@rus.uni-stuttgart.de> - 2015-07-11 09:28 +0000
    Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-07-11 19:35 +1000
      Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Ulli Horlacher <framstag@rus.uni-stuttgart.de> - 2015-07-11 09:51 +0000
        Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-07-11 20:20 +1000
          Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Ulli Horlacher <framstag@rus.uni-stuttgart.de> - 2015-07-11 22:42 +0000
            Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-07-11 15:50 -0700
              Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Ulli Horlacher <framstag@rus.uni-stuttgart.de> - 2015-07-11 23:04 +0000
                Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-07-11 16:10 -0700
                  Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Ulli Horlacher <framstag@rus.uni-stuttgart.de> - 2015-07-11 23:55 +0000
                    Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-07-11 21:34 -0700
                  Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-07-11 17:59 -0600
              Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-07-12 12:00 +0200
                Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-07-13 05:32 -0700
        Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? John Ladasky <john_ladasky@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-07-11 10:25 -0700
          Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 03:39 +1000
          Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-07-11 14:16 -0600
        Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Jugurtha Hadjar <jugurtha.hadjar@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 01:54 +0100
      Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2015-07-13 14:42 +0000
        Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-07-13 20:16 -0600
          Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-07-14 00:45 -0700
          Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2015-07-14 14:06 +0000
            Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-07-14 09:21 -0600
            Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-07-14 16:43 +0100
              Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-07-15 02:53 +1000
              Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2015-07-14 17:28 +0000
                Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-07-15 03:43 +1000
                  Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2015-07-14 18:28 +0000
            Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2015-07-14 15:27 -0400
        Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-07-14 08:39 +0100
          Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-07-14 06:05 -0700
    Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-07-11 11:01 +0100
    Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2015-07-11 12:19 +0200
      Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Ulli Horlacher <framstag@rus.uni-stuttgart.de> - 2015-07-11 16:04 +0000
        Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? nickgeovanis@gmail.com - 2015-07-11 09:26 -0700
    Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-07-11 13:27 +0200
      Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2015-07-11 13:56 +0200
        Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-07-11 16:48 +0200
          Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> - 2015-07-11 21:29 -0400
            Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Ned Deily <nad@acm.org> - 2015-07-11 22:01 -0700
              Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-07-12 00:42 -0700
                Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Ulli Horlacher <framstag@rus.uni-stuttgart.de> - 2015-07-12 07:55 +0000
                  Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2015-07-12 10:00 +0200
                    Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 18:54 +1000
                      Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-07-12 03:15 -0700
      Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Ned Deily <nad@acm.org> - 2015-07-11 08:09 -0700
      Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Ulli Horlacher <framstag@rus.uni-stuttgart.de> - 2015-07-11 16:01 +0000
        Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-07-11 19:37 +0200
        Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-07-11 19:55 +0200
    Re: beginners choice: wx or tk? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-07-11 10:33 -0600

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#93723

wxjmfauth@gmail.com wrote:

> On Windows, there are no more usable, working GUI toolkits (wrappers).

What is the problem with tkinter?
A first "hello world" program worked.

-- 
Ullrich Horlacher              Server und Virtualisierung
Rechenzentrum IZUS/TIK         E-Mail: horlacher@tik.uni-stuttgart.de
Universitaet Stuttgart         Tel:    ++49-711-68565868
Allmandring 30a                Fax:    ++49-711-682357
70550 Stuttgart (Germany)      WWW:    http://www.tik.uni-stuttgart.de/

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#93724

Am 12.07.15 um 09:55 schrieb Ulli Horlacher:
> wxjmfauth@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Windows, there are no more usable, working GUI toolkits (wrappers).
>
> What is the problem with tkinter?
> A first "hello world" program worked.
>
Don't listen.
jmf is a troll, who always complains about Unicode support, which is 
broken accoring to him in all ways.

In the case of Tk, sadly he would have a point: Tk only supports the 
BMP, which means that you cannot input astral characters into an entry 
box (emoticons, some rare Chinese characters...) Still most scripts *do* 
work.
QT handles this better. And jmf's complaints are otherwise invalid.

	Christian

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#93725

On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 6:00 PM, Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> wrote:
> Am 12.07.15 um 09:55 schrieb Ulli Horlacher:
>>
>> wxjmfauth@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Windows, there are no more usable, working GUI toolkits (wrappers).
>>
>>
>> What is the problem with tkinter?
>> A first "hello world" program worked.
>>
> Don't listen.
> jmf is a troll, who always complains about Unicode support, which is broken
> accoring to him in all ways.
>
> In the case of Tk, sadly he would have a point: Tk only supports the BMP,
> which means that you cannot input astral characters into an entry box
> (emoticons, some rare Chinese characters...) Still most scripts *do* work.
> QT handles this better. And jmf's complaints are otherwise invalid.

I don't know about the Python bindings, but I know for sure that GTK
has excellent Unicode support. (My only concern is that one particular
API uses UTF-8 byte positions rather than Unicode codepoint indices,
which may or may not have been papered over in the Python bindings.)
Qt is probably comparable. wxPython/wxWindows maybe, maybe not, given
that it aims for Windows API similarity. But it's something worth
checking, given that Tk doesn't do so well. And yet... a few simple
tests will prove the point. Don't listen to jmf, just check if you
care.

ChrisA

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#93730

Le dimanche 12 juillet 2015 10:54:47 UTC+2, Chris Angelico a écrit :
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 6:00 PM, Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> wrote:
> > Am 12.07.15 um 09:55 schrieb Ulli Horlacher:
> >>
> >> wxjmfauth@gmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Windows, there are no more usable, working GUI toolkits (wrappers).
> >>
> >>
> >> What is the problem with tkinter?
> >> A first "hello world" program worked.
> >>
> > Don't listen.
> > jmf is a troll, who always complains about Unicode support, which is broken
> > accoring to him in all ways.
> >
> > In the case of Tk, sadly he would have a point: Tk only supports the BMP,
> > which means that you cannot input astral characters into an entry box
> > (emoticons, some rare Chinese characters...) Still most scripts *do* work.
> > QT handles this better. And jmf's complaints are otherwise invalid.
> 
> I don't know about the Python bindings, but I know for sure that GTK
> has excellent Unicode support. (My only concern is that one particular
> API uses UTF-8 byte positions rather than Unicode codepoint indices,
> which may or may not have been papered over in the Python bindings.)
> Qt is probably comparable. wxPython/wxWindows maybe, maybe not, given
> that it aims for Windows API similarity. But it's something worth
> checking, given that Tk doesn't do so well. And yet... a few simple
> tests will prove the point. Don't listen to jmf, just check if you
> care.
> 
> ChrisA

-----

A *very* representative set of characters to toy with.
A link in English:
http://ilovetypography.com/2014/07/12/bundessans-and-bundesserif-truly-democratic-typefaces/

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#93687

In article <201507111448.t6BEmH6Z025227@fido.openend.se>,
 Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> wrote:
> In a message of Sat, 11 Jul 2015 13:56:09 +0200, Christian Gollwitzer writes:
> >Am 11.07.15 um 13:27 schrieb Laura Creighton:
> >> Also, if you need your app to work with MacOS, be warned that you
> >> will need an older version of tk than the most recent one.
> >> This information is current: https://www.python.org/download/mac/tcltk/
> >> Don't use 8.6
> >I'm not sure how recent this really is. Kevin Walzer has done a lot of 
> >work to get recent Tcl/Tk (i.e. 8.6) running on OSX. The most recent 
> >ActiveTcl release is 8.6.4.1. I'm using exclusively Tk 8.6 on the Mac 
> >without problems.
> Unless I was misinformed 2 weeks or so ago when I asked, that is the
> problem.  Tcl/Tk 8.6 works (and is shipped with) OSX, but tkinter
> and idle don't work with it.  We will see what Ned Deily says
> when he gets around to reading this.

Apple still does not ship 8.6 with OS X, only 8.5 (as of OS X 10.6) and, 
for backwards compatibility, 8.4.  That's why the python.org Python 
installers for OS X do not yet use 8.6.  ActiveState does provide an OS 
X installer for Tcl/Tk 8.6 but it is not open source; assuming your use 
is compatible with their (liberal) license, you can build your own 
Python linking with it.  Also, some third-party package managers for OS 
X supply a Python linked with their own Tcl/Tk 8.6, e.g. MacPorts.  We 
haven't wanted to get into the business of building and shipping our own 
Tcl/Tk for python.org OS X installers but, because of Apple's recent 
poor support for Tcl/Tk, we more or less need to; it's on the list of 
future enhancements.

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad@acm.org

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#93690

Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> wrote:

> The question is, why do you want to reimplement this thing in Python? 

The Windows support of perl/pp (a perl "compiler" similar to pyinstall) is
really bad. It does not work any more with Windows 7, I still have to use
Windows XP.


> If the plan is to get rid of some perl and tk bugs, then it would be good
> to check if the bugs exist in tkinter + python as well.

It's on my checklist :-)


> Tk works with Python 3.  wxPython doesn't yet.
> So if your porting is being done 'because I want to learn Python' then it
> is probably Python 3 you want to learn, so that's a strong reason to use
> tkinter.

Indeed! Thanks for the warning!
Then I will go with python+tk.


> I'd also recommend kivy, which has the added advantage that if
> somebody wants to use your app from a cellphone or a tablet, it
> will just work.  see: http://kivy.org/#home

Is it compatible with pyinstall?
My main target architecture is Windows, for which I need a standalone
executable.

-- 
Ullrich Horlacher              Server und Virtualisierung
Rechenzentrum IZUS/TIK         E-Mail: horlacher@tik.uni-stuttgart.de
Universitaet Stuttgart         Tel:    ++49-711-68565868
Allmandring 30a                Fax:    ++49-711-682357
70550 Stuttgart (Germany)      WWW:    http://www.tik.uni-stuttgart.de/

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#93698

In a message of Sat, 11 Jul 2015 16:01:05 -0000, Ulli Horlacher writes:
>> I'd also recommend kivy, which has the added advantage that if
>> somebody wants to use your app from a cellphone or a tablet, it
>> will just work.  see: http://kivy.org/#home
>
>Is it compatible with pyinstall?
>My main target architecture is Windows, for which I need a standalone
>executable.

Kivy has its own way to make standalone windows executables, which
uses pyinstallers.

see: http://kivy.org/docs/guide/packaging.html

Laura

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#93700

In a message of Sat, 11 Jul 2015 19:37:17 +0200, Laura Creighton writes:
>Kivy has its own way to make standalone windows executables, which
>uses pyinstallers.

s/pyinstallers/PyInstaller/  sorry about that.

Laura

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#93695

On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 at 3:35 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 at 7:28 PM, Ulli Horlacher
> <framstag@rus.uni-stuttgart.de> wrote:
>> I want to start a project with python.
>> The program must have a (simple) GUI and must run on Linux and Windows.
>> The last one as standalone executable, created with pyinstaller.
>
> Not sure what your advantage is with pyinstaller, it adds a level of
> complication that doesn't usually justify itself IMO.
>
>> I have already an implementation in perl/tk :
>> http://fex.rus.uni-stuttgart.de/fop/ZAcXSugp/schwuppdiwupp.png
>> http://fex.belwue.de/download/schwuppdiwupp.pl
>>
>> I am not really happy with tk, because it has some bugs, at least its perl
>> integration. I have never used wx.
>>
>> What is the recommendation for a python beginner: wx or tk?
>
> Using wxPython means you need another library, while tkinter comes
> with Python. There are some limitations to tk, and I personally don't
> like its style, but if you're wanting to package it up into an EXE,
> every third-party library you add will increase the size of that EXE,
> potentially quite significantly (wxPython will drag in everything that
> it depends on, which IIRC is quite a bit).

I've worked with wxPython + pyInstaller in the past, and IIRC the
total size of those dependencies (roughly Python + wxPython +
matplotlib + numpy + cx_Oracle + sqlalchemy + pywin32) clocked in at
around 20 MB.

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