Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.python > #49434 > unrolled thread

Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list

Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.python

This discussion starts older than the indexed window; earlier articles aren't shown. The article labeled Started by below is the oldest one visible, not the original post.

Contents

  Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-29 18:00 +0100
    Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-30 20:24 +0300
      Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> - 2013-06-30 20:58 +0100
        Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-30 23:14 +0300
          Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> - 2013-06-30 21:36 +0100
          Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-01 08:23 +0200
            Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-01 10:52 +0300
              Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-01 10:54 +0200
                Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-01 12:05 +0300
                  Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-01 11:32 +0200
                    Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-01 12:37 +0300
                      Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-01 14:28 +0200
                        Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-01 16:22 +0300
                      Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-07-02 12:44 +1000
                  Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Steve Simmons <square.steve@gmail.com> - 2013-07-01 10:31 +0100
                    Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-01 12:46 +0300
                      Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-01 14:44 +0200
                      Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Steve Simmons <square.steve@gmail.com> - 2013-07-01 11:07 +0100
              Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-07-01 12:43 +0000
                Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-01 15:08 +0200
                  Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-07-01 15:33 +0000
                    Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-01 21:18 +0200
                      Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-07-01 23:14 +0000
                    Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-07-01 20:32 +0100
                    Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-02 09:25 +0200
                Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-01 16:28 +0300
                  Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Andrew Berg <robotsondrugs@gmail.com> - 2013-07-01 08:45 -0500
                  Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-07-01 15:34 +0000
                    Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-07-01 08:49 -0700
                      Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-07-01 17:56 +0100
                        Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-01 20:15 +0300
                          Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-07-01 18:26 +0100
                        Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-07-01 11:29 -0700
                          Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-07-01 20:16 +0100
                            Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-07-01 12:29 -0700
                      Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-01 21:12 +0200
                      Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-07-01 20:28 +0100
                      Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-02 09:22 +0200
                      Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-07-02 10:34 +0100
                      Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-02 14:01 +0200
                      Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-07-02 14:40 +0100
                        Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-07-02 06:48 -0700
                          OT Plague [was Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-07-03 02:37 +0000
                      Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-07-03 08:34 +1000
                        Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-07-02 17:30 -0700
                          Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-07-03 01:24 +0000
                            Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-07-03 10:08 -0700
                              Whatever happened to the Effbot? [was Re: python adds an etc] alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-07-04 11:16 +1000
                                Re: Whatever happened to the Effbot? [was Re: python adds an etc] Skip Montanaro <skip@pobox.com> - 2013-07-03 20:31 -0500
                          Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-03 11:21 +0200
                            Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-07-03 10:11 -0700
                              Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-04 14:09 +0200
                                Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-07-05 15:40 -0700
                                  Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-08 10:19 +0200
                          Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-03 19:45 +1000
                            Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-03 13:00 +0300
                              Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list feedthetroll@gmx.de - 2013-07-03 07:12 -0700
                                Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Steve Simmons <square.steve@gmail.com> - 2013-07-03 16:21 +0100
                                Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-07-03 10:00 -0700
                                  Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list feedthetroll@gmx.de - 2013-07-04 01:24 -0700
                                Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-07-03 10:01 -0700
                                  Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-07-03 11:08 -0700
                                    Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-07-03 18:29 +0000
                                    Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-07-03 12:18 -0700
                                      Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-07-04 03:08 +0000
                                    Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-07-04 10:53 +1000
                                    Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-07-04 02:08 +0100
                                      Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-07-03 20:07 -0700
                                        Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-07-03 22:44 -0700
                                          Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-04 08:57 +0300
                                  Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list feedthetroll@gmx.de - 2013-07-04 01:50 -0700
                                    Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-07-05 15:42 -0700
                              Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-04 00:44 +1000
                                Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-03 18:36 +0300
                                  Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-04 01:44 +1000
                                    Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-03 19:47 +0300
                                      Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-04 02:53 +1000
                                        Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-03 20:07 +0300
                                          Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-04 03:23 +1000
                                            Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-03 20:50 +0300
                                              Fwd: Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-04 13:06 +0300
                                  Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Steve Simmons <square.steve@gmail.com> - 2013-07-03 17:42 +0100
                                    Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-03 20:10 +0300
                            Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-07-03 05:31 -0700
                              Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-04 00:37 +1000
                          Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-03 12:04 +0200
                      Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-07-03 00:18 +0100
                        Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-07-02 18:21 -0700
                          Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-07-04 00:12 +0100
                            Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-07-03 18:56 -0700
                          Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-07-04 00:40 +0100
                          Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-04 13:19 +0200
                          Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-07-05 02:58 +0100
                      Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-07-03 10:36 +1000
                      Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-07-03 01:51 +0100
                      Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-03 12:01 +0200
                    Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-01 19:27 +0300
                    Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-01 19:36 +0300
      Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-06-30 22:57 +0100
      Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> - 2013-06-30 23:13 +0100
      Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-01 08:37 +0200
        Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-01 10:55 +0300
          Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-01 10:56 +0200
            Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> - 2013-07-01 14:01 +0000
              Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-07-01 08:00 -0700
                Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-07-01 15:06 +0000
                  Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-07-01 21:34 -0700
                    Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-07-02 06:32 +0100
                    Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-07-02 07:14 +0000
                      Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-07-02 18:59 -0400
                  Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> - 2013-07-02 19:06 +0000
                Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-01 19:33 +0300
              Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-01 20:42 +0200
                Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-07-01 22:12 +0000
                  Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-02 09:55 +0200
                  Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-02 17:59 +1000
                Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-07-01 23:17 +0000
                  Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-02 08:54 +0200
                  Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-07-02 01:43 -0600
                  Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-02 10:16 +0200
                    Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-07-02 12:53 +0000
                      Re: python adds an extra half space when reading from a string or list Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-07-03 00:22 +0000

Page 4 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7  Next page →

#49758

On 07/03/2013 08:12 AM, feedthetroll@gmx.de wrote:
> > Am Mittwoch, 3. Juli 2013 12:00:14 UTC+2 schrieb Νίκος:
>> >> Στις 3/7/2013 12:45 μμ, ο/η Chris Angelico έγραψε:
>>>> >> >> ] You have betrayed the trust of all your customers.
>> >> ...
>> >> I just received a call form on of my customers asking me to explain your 
>> >> mail ...
>> >> Of course i should have give you the root pass(it was indeed stupid), 
>> >> but you violated my trust.
>> >> You should have been clear that you didnt want to help and not asking me 
>> >> via private mail for the root pass.
> > 
> > May i cite:
> > Am Dienstag, 4. Juni 2013 19:12:41 UTC+2 schrieb Νικόλαος Κούρας:
>> >> Τη Τρίτη, 4 Ιουνίου 2013 8:09:18 μ.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης Chris Angelico έγραψε:
>>> >>> On Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 3:02 AM, Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>>> >>>> I'm willing to let someone with full root access to my webhost to see 
>>>> >>>> thigns from the inside.
>>>> >>>> ...
>>> >>> You need to read up on what happens when you enter Dummy Mode and give
>>> >>> someone full root access to your web host. You really REALLY need to
>>> >>> understand what that means before you offer random strangers that kind
>>> >>> of access to someone else's data.
>>> >>> 
> > *************************************************************************
> > *************************************************************************
>>> >>> I've half a mind to take you up on your offer, then go look for
>>> >>> personal and private info from your clients, and email it to them
>>> >>> (along with a link to this thread) to point out what's going on.
> > *************************************************************************
> > *************************************************************************
>>> >>> ChrisA
>> >> 
>> >> I know what full root access mean.
>> >> I also trust you.
>> >> ...
> > 
> > Am Mittwoch, 5. Juni 2013 00:12:26 UTC+2 schrieb Chris Angelico:
>> >> The call is strong... I could rule the galaxy alongside my father...
>> >> I've searched my feelings, and I know this to be true!
>> >> 
> > *************************************************************************
> > *************************************************************************
>> >> Okay. I accept. I'll **do as I promised.** Might be interesting, and
>> >> educative - for someone, at least.
> > *************************************************************************
> > *************************************************************************
> > [emphasis added for those, who do not want to read the whole post]
> > 
> > Any questions?

Yes.  

If you tell someone you're going to beat them up but 
they don't take you seriously because they are naive, 
or they think you're kidding, or they don't understand 
you because you told them in hints rather than directly, 
is it ok to beat them up?

Are the existence of laws against beating people up
negated because you told them in advance?  Or negated
because they "deserve" the beating?

Does it make any difference if they contribute to
their own beating, say by showing up at a designated
place and time?

Does it make any difference if the beating is for 
their own good?  (In the beater's opinion?)  (In
the majority opinion?)

Does it make any difference if there are ways other 
than beating of communicating the message?  How long
and how hard should those alternate ways be tried
before resorting to beating?

I am sorry Mr/Ms. FeedTheTroll for being so dumb.  
I know the answers to all these questions are obvious 
to everyone else here but I am not sure about them.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#49768

On Wednesday, July 3, 2013 10:31:23 PM UTC+5:30, ru...@yahoo.com wrote:
> 
> 
> Are the existence of laws against beating people up
> negated because you told them in advance?  Or negated
> because they "deserve" the beating?

One of the fundamental purpose of laws is to legalize what you call 'beating-up'
Goes by the names like jail-sentences, fines and ultimately capital punishment.

Civilization would not be possible without these.

BTW the etymological roots of 'civilization' come from 16th century usages such as "I shall civilise thee with my rod"

> Does it make any difference if the beating is for 
> their own good?  (In the beater's opinion?)  (In
> the majority opinion?)

As a good Christian I believe that Chris tried more than anyone else on this list to help Nikos before talking recourse to another gem of biblical wisdom:
He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

And when Nikos moves up from petty criminal status to responsible citizen, I bet he will thank Chris more for all his real-help cum chastisement than your honeyed charity-at-others-expense.

> Does it make any difference if there are ways other 
> than beating of communicating the message?  How long
> and how hard should those alternate ways be tried
> before resorting to beating?

Here are a couple of random Chris' posts picked up from the dung-heap of Nikos threads.  Anyone will see that they represent a genuine and active context of trying-to-help.  Yes, there is irritation, frustration, humor etc but always actively in the context of trying actively to help Nikos.

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2013-June/648158.html

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2013-June/648167.html

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2013-June/648200.html

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2013-June/648224.html

Now multiply that by a couple of orders of magnitude and you get the extent Chris tried to help before deciding to wield the rod.

BTW where were you then, when all this genuine but ultimately futile help-attempting was going on?

And if you feel so strongly about this as you claim how come you did not protest when Chris clearly gave the warnings about his impending actions on this list that 'feedthetroll' has kindly reminded us about?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#49770

On Wed, 03 Jul 2013 11:08:11 -0700, rusi wrote:

> And when Nikos moves up from petty criminal status to responsible
> citizen,

"Petty criminal status"?

/headdesk


-- 
Steven

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#49771

On 07/03/2013 12:08 PM, rusi wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 3, 2013 10:31:23 PM UTC+5:30, ru...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> Are the existence of laws against beating people up negated because
>> you told them in advance?  Or negated because they "deserve" the
>> beating?
> 
> One of the fundamental purpose of laws is to legalize what you call
> 'beating-up' Goes by the names like jail-sentences, fines and
> ultimately capital punishment.

Thanks, I hadn't realized there were laws requiring 
Nikos to be competent to run a web server business.
Next time I interact with Nikos I'll inform him that 
he is acting illegally and C.L.P. has been empowered
(I'm still a little fuzzy about by who) to punish him!

> Civilization would not be possible without these.
> 
> BTW the etymological roots of 'civilization' come from 16th century
> usages such as "I shall civilise thee with my rod"

Again thanks!  That never occurred to me.  Since 
"civilization" is a word in the *English* language
and since we English speakers  (especially us 
Christian ones!!) define morality and civilization
for the world, then that word's root is really 
significant!

>> Does it make any difference if the beating is for their own good?
>> (In the beater's opinion?)  (In the majority opinion?)
> 
> As a good Christian I believe that Chris tried more than anyone else
> on this list to help Nikos before talking recourse to another gem of
> biblical wisdom: He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that
> loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

Wow!  And yet again thanks!  Now that I know I can just 
apply Christian ethics, my questions are answered.  You 
know, those ethics that results in the crusades against 
the Islamic world, the ethics that thought it a great 
idea to torture heretics to death in the Inquisition, 
the ethics that resulted in the genocide of millions of 
South, Central and North American indigenous people who 
refused to accept Jesus and persisted in their heathen 
devil-worshiping ways?  The ethics that even today deny 
abortions to women at risk of death carrying pregnancy 
to full term?  I'll will go and reread my bible to 
figure out how to deal with Nikos.

That's what I love about the Internet!!!  Post a question 
and one gets an answer in minutes!  No need to think or 
study all those dull old philosophy and sociology books.

>[...snip...]

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#49800

On Wed, 03 Jul 2013 12:18:58 -0700, rurpy wrote:

> On 07/03/2013 12:08 PM, rusi wrote:
>> On Wednesday, July 3, 2013 10:31:23 PM UTC+5:30, ru...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> Are the existence of laws against beating people up negated because
>>> you told them in advance?  Or negated because they "deserve" the
>>> beating?
>> 
>> One of the fundamental purpose of laws is to legalize what you call
>> 'beating-up' Goes by the names like jail-sentences, fines and
>> ultimately capital punishment.
> 
> Thanks, I hadn't realized there were laws requiring Nikos to be
> competent to run a web server business. Next time I interact with Nikos
> I'll inform him that he is acting illegally and C.L.P. has been
> empowered (I'm still a little fuzzy about by who) to punish him!

Some weeks ago, some helpful (not) soul tried contacting the Greek 
government to report Nikos to the police.


>> Civilization would not be possible without these.
>> 
>> BTW the etymological roots of 'civilization' come from 16th century
>> usages such as "I shall civilise thee with my rod"
> 
> Again thanks!  That never occurred to me.  Since "civilization" is a
> word in the *English* language and since we English speakers 
> (especially us Christian ones!!) define morality and civilization for
> the world, then that word's root is really significant!

For the record, the above is folk etymology, i.e. wrong.

The English word "civilization" is ultimately derived from the Latin 
"civis", meaning "citizen". The suggestion that it is derived from a 16th 
century word meaning "to beat or to hit" is, well, bullshit.

The first use of "civilization" in recorded English is from the 18th 
century, 1704, with the meaning of the legal process of turning a 
criminal case into a civil case. It didn't get it's modern meaning of the 
opposite of barbarism until the second half of the 18th century.

The first recorded use of "civilize", or -ise, meaning to enlighten, 
refine, educate, bring into the standards of civilized society, occurred 
in the early 17th century, 1600-1629.


-- 
Steven

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#49788

rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> writes:

> As a good Christian I believe that Chris tried more than anyone else
> on this list to help Nikos before talking recourse to another gem of
> biblical wisdom:

> He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him
> chasteneth him betimes.

Good Christian morality entails biblical encouragement to beat one's
child with a rod, I see.

Please, may I be spared encounters with good Christians.

Let's end right now the insidious doctrine that beating a person –
metaphorically or otherwise – is ever acceptable in this forum. If that
contradicts anyone's good Christian morality, then good Christian
morality is dead wrong and needs to be rejected.

-- 
 \     “Wrinkles should merely indicate where smiles have been.” —Mark |
  `\                                    Twain, _Following the Equator_ |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#49790

On 4 July 2013 01:53, Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> As a good Christian I believe that Chris tried more than anyone else
>> on this list to help Nikos before talking recourse to another gem of
>> biblical wisdom:
>
>> He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him
>> chasteneth him betimes.
>
> Good Christian morality entails biblical encouragement to beat one's
> child with a rod, I see.
>
> Please, may I be spared encounters with good Christians.
>
> Let's end right now the insidious doctrine that beating a person -
> metaphorically or otherwise - is ever acceptable in this forum. If that
> contradicts anyone's good Christian morality, then good Christian
> morality is dead wrong and needs to be rejected.

And also, let's end this and all the related discussions about
trolling and how to deal with trolls. I can see how some are annoyed
by Νίκος and his posts but I for one am *much more* concerned/bothered
by the surrounding (often highly) unpleasant discussion by others.


Oscar

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#49799

On Thursday, July 4, 2013 6:38:31 AM UTC+5:30, Oscar Benjamin wrote:
> And also, let's end this and all the related discussions about
> trolling and how to deal with trolls. I can see how some are annoyed
> by Νίκος and his posts but I for one am *much more* concerned/bothered
> by the surrounding (often highly) unpleasant discussion by others.

Yes count me too as one of those concerned about other post(ers) more than Nikos.

And I too am stepping out of this brawl.

I got into it because I felt Chris had done more service to Nikos and the list than others and then was being misrepresented.

Anyway there is a very good reason to stop these 'discussions' -- the problem being discussed is too much in-band with the discussions.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#49815

On 07/03/2013 09:07 PM, rusi wrote:
>[...]
> I got into it because I felt Chris had done more service to Nikos and
> the list than others and then was being misrepresented.

I don't know why you think I "misrepresented" him.  I questioned
the morality of his accepting access to Nikos' server and then
doing what he did.  If you think it is a black-and-white question
then you are welcome to your opinion but you are wrong.  Somebody
needed to point out the other side even if it happens to be a 
minority opinion here.

Those actions of Chris and their morality are independent of 
any other help he did or did not provide Nikos which is why I 
clipped that part.  (For the record I could post links to a 
number of distinctly unhelpful posts Chris also made to Nikos
but I am not disputing in general Chris' efforts here.) 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#49818

Στις 4/7/2013 8:44 πμ, ο/η rurpy@yahoo.com έγραψε:
> On 07/03/2013 09:07 PM, rusi wrote:
>> [...]
>> I got into it because I felt Chris had done more service to Nikos and
>> the list than others and then was being misrepresented.
>
> I don't know why you think I "misrepresented" him.  I questioned
> the morality of his accepting access to Nikos' server and then
> doing what he did.  If you think it is a black-and-white question
> then you are welcome to your opinion but you are wrong.  Somebody
> needed to point out the other side even if it happens to be a
> minority opinion here.
>
> Those actions of Chris and their morality are independent of
> any other help he did or did not provide Nikos which is why I
> clipped that part.  (For the record I could post links to a
> number of distinctly unhelpful posts Chris also made to Nikos
> but I am not disputing in general Chris' efforts here.)

Actually Chris's way of responding is by giving me general hints or urls 
to look into and not provide relevant code to show me my errors or 
specific instructions on what needs to be done to solve something.

And yes, since he didn't wanted to help he should have stated clearly 
that helping me by looking my code wasn't into his intentions.

Thus, he shouldn't have logged on to my server.


-- 
What is now proved was at first only imagined!

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#49828

Am Mittwoch, 3. Juli 2013 19:01:23 UTC+2 schrieb ru...@yahoo.com:
> On 07/03/2013 08:12 AM, feedthetroll@gmx.de wrote:
>>> Am Mittwoch, 3. Juli 2013 12:00:14 UTC+2 schrieb Νίκος:
>>>>> Στις 3/7/2013 12:45 μμ, ο/η Chris Angelico έγραψε:
>>>>>>>>> ] You have betrayed the trust of all your customers.
>>>>> ...
>>>>> I just received a call form on of my customers asking me to explain your 
>>>>> mail ...
>>>>> Of course i should have give you the root pass(it was indeed stupid), 
>>>>> but you violated my trust.
>>>>> You should have been clear that you didnt want to help and not asking me 
>>>>> via private mail for the root pass.
>>> 
>>> May i cite:
>>> Am Dienstag, 4. Juni 2013 19:12:41 UTC+2 schrieb Νικόλαος Κούρας:
>>>>> Τη Τρίτη, 4 Ιουνίου 2013 8:09:18 μ.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης Chris Angelico 
>>>>> έγραψε:
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 3:02 AM, Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I'm willing to let someone with full root access to my webhost to see 
>>>>>>>>> thigns from the inside.
>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> You need to read up on what happens when you enter Dummy Mode and give
>>>>>>> someone full root access to your web host. You really REALLY need to
>>>>>>> understand what that means before you offer random strangers that kind
>>>>>>> of access to someone else's data.
>>>>>>> 
>>> *************************************************************************
>>> *************************************************************************
>>>>>>> I've half a mind to take you up on your offer, then go look for
>>>>>>> personal and private info from your clients, and email it to them
>>>>>>> (along with a link to this thread) to point out what's going on.
>>> *************************************************************************
>>> *************************************************************************
>>>>>>> ChrisA
>>>>> 
>>>>> I know what full root access mean.
>>>>> I also trust you.
>>>>> ...
>>>  
>>> Am Mittwoch, 5. Juni 2013 00:12:26 UTC+2 schrieb Chris Angelico:
>>>>> The call is strong... I could rule the galaxy alongside my father...
>>>>> I've searched my feelings, and I know this to be true!
>>>>> 
>>> *************************************************************************
>>> *************************************************************************
>>>>> Okay. I accept. I'll **do as I promised.** Might be interesting, and
>>>>> educative - for someone, at least.
>>> *************************************************************************
>>> *************************************************************************
>>> [emphasis added for those, who do not want to read the whole post]
>>> 
>>> Any questions?
> 
> Yes.  

Ahhh! Like you I *love* to answer rhetorical questions. ;-)

> If you tell someone you're going to beat them up but 
> they don't take you seriously because they are naive, 
> or they think you're kidding, or they don't understand 
> you because you told them in hints rather than directly, 
> is it ok to beat them up?

Yes, or the police would have to arrest every participant of a boxing, martial arts, ... championship.

> Are the existence of laws against beating people up
> negated because you told them in advance?  Or negated
> because they "deserve" the beating?

Yes, or every M.D. would be arrested. You allow him to cut your body and therefore it's O.K.

> Does it make any difference if they contribute to
> their own beating, say by showing up at a designated
> place and time?

Yes. In case of a punchfest (is this correct in english, the german word is "Massenschlägerei") *every* participant is convicted.

> Does it make any difference if the beating is for 
> their own good?  (In the beater's opinion?)  (In
> the majority opinion?)

Yes. In case the one who confirms the "their own good" is an accredited specialist (psychiatrist, judge [yes there is corporal punishment in many, many legal systems, established and endorsed by majority opinion], ...)

> I am sorry Mr/Ms. FeedTheTroll for being so dumb.  

I forgive, no problem ;-)
And, if you have to be personal on a public list, I would prefer Mrs.

> I know the answers to all these questions are obvious 
> to everyone else here but I am not sure about them.

Then I hope, I was able to enlighten you. ;-)

btw: Highly offtopic. Therefore I'm out.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#50025

On 07/04/2013 02:50 AM, feedthetroll@gmx.de wrote:
> Am Mittwoch, 3. Juli 2013 19:01:23 UTC+2 schrieb ru...@yahoo.com:
>[...]
>>>> Any questions?
>> Yes.  
>[...]
>> I know the answers to all these questions are obvious 
>> to everyone else here but I am not sure about them.
> 
> Then I hope, I was able to enlighten you. ;-)

as i said, i love the internet, it's so easy to get answers 
to all those questions i thought were difficult and complex.  
You cleared everything up in just a few sentences, thanks.
i'm now going to go read the truth about the 9-11 attacks.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#49745

On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 8:00 PM, Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> wrote:
> Στις 3/7/2013 12:45 μμ, ο/η Chris Angelico έγραψε:
>
>>> ] You have betrayed the trust of all your customers.
>>>
>>> Which seemed to be accepted on this list without a problem.
>>
>>
>> If my boss gave a random stranger from a mailing list the root
>> password to one of our servers, I would say to his face that he had
>> betrayed his (our) customers' trust. I would say it with strong
>> emphasis and a raised tone, too, and no small heat. The words you
>> quote above are perfectly factual and, in my opinion, business-like
>> language.
>
>
> I just received a call form on of my customers asking me to explain your
> mail and i did tell him the complete truth.
>
> He was surprised by what i did my hopefully he will not leave from my
> server.

I'd like to have been cc'd in on that conversation; if indeed you gave
him the complete truth, then there's nothing to hide, right?

> any way all is well now.

Until you retract your statement that you would happily give out root
access again to some other random person across the internet, all is
NOT well.

Calling you incompetent at managing a server is like calling a doctor
incompetent for surgically removing your throat to cure a common cold.
It's too late, at that point, to undo what's happened, but if that
same doctor still says he'd do the same again to cure another cold in
another patient, I think most of us would look for another doctor.
People deciding to stay with that doctor is NOT "all is well".

ChrisA

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#49749

Στις 3/7/2013 5:44 μμ, ο/η Chris Angelico έγραψε:
> On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 8:00 PM, ����� <nikos@superhost.gr> wrote:
>> ���� 3/7/2013 12:45 ��, �/� Chris Angelico ������:
>>
>>>> ] You have betrayed the trust of all your customers.
>>>>
>>>> Which seemed to be accepted on this list without a problem.
>>>
>>>
>>> If my boss gave a random stranger from a mailing list the root
>>> password to one of our servers, I would say to his face that he had
>>> betrayed his (our) customers' trust. I would say it with strong
>>> emphasis and a raised tone, too, and no small heat. The words you
>>> quote above are perfectly factual and, in my opinion, business-like
>>> language.
>>
>>
>> I just received a call form on of my customers asking me to explain your
>> mail and i did tell him the complete truth.
>>
>> He was surprised by what i did my hopefully he will not leave from my
>> server.
>
> I'd like to have been cc'd in on that conversation; if indeed you gave
> him the complete truth, then there's nothing to hide, right?
>
>> any way all is well now.
>
> Until you retract your statement that you would happily give out root
> access again to some other random person across the internet, all is
> NOT well.
>
> Calling you incompetent at managing a server is like calling a doctor
> incompetent for surgically removing your throat to cure a common cold.
> It's too late, at that point, to undo what's happened, but if that
> same doctor still says he'd do the same again to cure another cold in
> another patient, I think most of us would look for another doctor.
> People deciding to stay with that doctor is NOT "all is well".
>
> ChrisA
>
I will *not* give away my root pass to anyone for any reason but i will 
open a norla user account for someone if i feel like trusting him and 
copy my python file to his homr dir to take alook from within.

-- 
What is now proved was at first only imagined!

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#49750

On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 1:36 AM, Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> wrote:
> I will *not* give away my root pass to anyone for any reason but i will open
> a norla user account for someone if i feel like trusting him and copy my
> python file to his homr dir to take alook from within.

Well... well... baby steps. That's something at least. That's still a
huge level of access, though; with a non-root account on your server,
I would be able to - I think - read all your customers' code. You
would have to chroot the user you give, and if you're going to do
that, you may as well just give the code as a .py file. Really, you
need to have a MUCH stronger respect for shell access, even non-root.

ChrisA

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#49753

Στις 3/7/2013 6:44 μμ, ο/η Chris Angelico έγραψε:
> On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 1:36 AM, ����� <nikos@superhost.gr> wrote:
>> I will *not* give away my root pass to anyone for any reason but i will open
>> a norla user account for someone if i feel like trusting him and copy my
>> python file to his homr dir to take alook from within.
>
> Well... well... baby steps. That's something at least. That's still a
> huge level of access, though; with a non-root account on your server,
> I would be able to - I think - read all your customers' code. You
> would have to chroot the user you give, and if you're going to do
> that, you may as well just give the code as a .py file. Really, you
> need to have a MUCH stronger respect for shell access, even non-root.
>
> ChrisA
>
I did not understand you.

How with a  normal user account named "chris" how will you be able to 
ready my customers html files and even my python scripts?

I feel the urge to open you one just to see if you can do it or 
not.....but i'm also scared....

-- 
What is now proved was at first only imagined!

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#49756

On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 2:47 AM, Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> wrote:
> Στις 3/7/2013 6:44 μμ, ο/η Chris Angelico έγραψε:
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 1:36 AM, ����� <nikos@superhost.gr> wrote:
>>>
>>> I will *not* give away my root pass to anyone for any reason but i will
>>> open
>>> a norla user account for someone if i feel like trusting him and copy my
>>> python file to his homr dir to take alook from within.
>>
>>
>> Well... well... baby steps. That's something at least. That's still a
>> huge level of access, though; with a non-root account on your server,
>> I would be able to - I think - read all your customers' code. You
>> would have to chroot the user you give, and if you're going to do
>> that, you may as well just give the code as a .py file. Really, you
>> need to have a MUCH stronger respect for shell access, even non-root.
>>
>> ChrisA
>>
> I did not understand you.
>
> How with a  normal user account named "chris" how will you be able to ready
> my customers html files and even my python scripts?
>
> I feel the urge to open you one just to see if you can do it or not.....but
> i'm also scared....

What are the file permissions (file modes) on all your home
directories? Do you know what they mean?

I'm happy to take you up on that offer if you need another lesson in
not giving out shell access. And don't forget, privilege escalation
attacks do exist.

ChrisA

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#49759

Στις 3/7/2013 7:53 μμ, ο/η Chris Angelico έγραψε:
> On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 2:47 AM, Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> wrote:
>> Στις 3/7/2013 6:44 μμ, ο/η Chris Angelico έγραψε:
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 1:36 AM, ����� <nikos@superhost.gr> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I will *not* give away my root pass to anyone for any reason but i will
>>>> open
>>>> a norla user account for someone if i feel like trusting him and copy my
>>>> python file to his homr dir to take alook from within.
>>>
>>>
>>> Well... well... baby steps. That's something at least. That's still a
>>> huge level of access, though; with a non-root account on your server,
>>> I would be able to - I think - read all your customers' code. You
>>> would have to chroot the user you give, and if you're going to do
>>> that, you may as well just give the code as a .py file. Really, you
>>> need to have a MUCH stronger respect for shell access, even non-root.
>>>
>>> ChrisA
>>>
>> I did not understand you.
>>
>> How with a  normal user account named "chris" how will you be able to ready
>> my customers html files and even my python scripts?
>>
>> I feel the urge to open you one just to see if you can do it or not.....but
>> i'm also scared....
>
> What are the file permissions (file modes) on all your home
> directories? Do you know what they mean?

root@nikos [~]# ls -al /home
total 88
drwx--x--x 22 root     root     4096 Jul  3 20:03 ./
drwxr-xr-x 22 root     root     4096 Jun 12 01:21 ../
drwx--x--x 14 akis     akis     4096 Apr  5 22:21 akis/
same with others just +x for group and others.

Does that mean you can easily i.e. 'cd /home/akis/' accessing their home 
directories?

Shall i 'chmod -x /home/dirs' ?

> I'm happy to take you up on that offer if you need another lesson in
> not giving out shell access. And don't forget, privilege escalation
> attacks do exist.

Yes they do, but cPanel offers some protection against these kind of 
methods called "CPHulk" so it wont be easy!


-- 
What is now proved was at first only imagined!

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#49765

On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 3:07 AM, Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> wrote:
> Στις 3/7/2013 7:53 μμ, ο/η Chris Angelico έγραψε:
>> What are the file permissions (file modes) on all your home
>> directories? Do you know what they mean?
>
>
> root@nikos [~]# ls -al /home
> total 88
> drwx--x--x 22 root     root     4096 Jul  3 20:03 ./
> drwxr-xr-x 22 root     root     4096 Jun 12 01:21 ../
> drwx--x--x 14 akis     akis     4096 Apr  5 22:21 akis/
> same with others just +x for group and others.
>
> Does that mean you can easily i.e. 'cd /home/akis/' accessing their home
> directories?

Yes.

> Shall i 'chmod -x /home/dirs' ?

Only if you know what it will do. Your solutions to problems always
seem to be "If I do this, will the problem be fixed?" without
demonstrating any understanding of what will be changed. Maybe you do
know and aren't showing it, but I suspect that (in many cases at
least) you simply do not understand what you are doing.

>> I'm happy to take you up on that offer if you need another lesson in
>> not giving out shell access. And don't forget, privilege escalation
>> attacks do exist.
>
>
> Yes they do, but cPanel offers some protection against these kind of methods
> called "CPHulk" so it wont be easy!

Neat. Now I know how to lock you out of your own account. Five seconds
with Google brought this up:

http://docs.cpanel.net/twiki/bin/view/11_30/WHMDocs/CPHulk

Can you, by reading that page, tell me what I would have to do to stop
you from accessing your login?

Also, CPHulk does not appear to have _any_ protection against
privilege escalation. It's a completely different thing. So once
again, it appears - maybe that appearance is wrong - that you have
done something that "ought to fix security" without knowing anything
about what it actually does.

ChrisA

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#49767

Στις 3/7/2013 8:23 μμ, ο/η Chris Angelico έγραψε:
 >>> What are the file permissions (file modes) on all your home
 >>> directories? Do you know what they mean?
 >>
 >>
 >> root@nikos [~]# ls -al /home
 >> total 88
 >> drwx--x--x 22 root     root     4096 Jul  3 20:03 ./
 >> drwxr-xr-x 22 root     root     4096 Jun 12 01:21 ../
 >> drwx--x--x 14 akis     akis     4096 Apr  5 22:21 akis/
 >> same with others just +x for group and others.
 >>
 >> Does that mean you can easily i.e. 'cd /home/akis/' accessing their home
 >> directories?
 >
 > Yes.

You can cd to the other users home directories but you wont be able to 
view their files because of the lack of +r attribute.

But i'll remove it just in case by:

chmod go-x -R /home/whatever_username

 >> Yes they do, but cPanel offers some protection against these kind of 
methods
 >> called "CPHulk" so it wont be easy!
 >
 > Neat. Now I know how to lock you out of your own account. Five seconds
 > with Google brought this up:
 >
 > http://docs.cpanel.net/twiki/bin/view/11_30/WHMDocs/CPHulk
 >
 > Can you, by reading that page, tell me what I would have to do to stop
 > you from accessing your login?

yes constantly ping my server by faking you ip address as my ip address 
so to force CPHulk to refuse to let me login.

Of course the same page provides a means of how to unlock myself in case 
that happens.

 > Also, CPHulk does not appear to have _any_ protection against
 > privilege escalation. It's a completely different thing.

Yes, it does not. Its mostly a way to block nmap requests of pinging and 
identifying of services running on the server itself.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 4 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | comp.lang.python

csiph-web