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Can't get tilde character with IDLE 3.2.2 on French Mac Lion

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  Can't get tilde character with IDLE 3.2.2 on French Mac Lion Franck Ditter <franck@ditter.org> - 2011-12-19 10:15 +0100
    Re: Can't get tilde character with IDLE 3.2.2 on French Mac Lion Ned Deily <nad@acm.org> - 2011-12-19 14:19 -0500
      Re: Can't get tilde character with IDLE 3.2.2 on French Mac Lion Franck Ditter <franck@ditter.org> - 2011-12-20 13:56 +0100
        Re: Can't get tilde character with IDLE 3.2.2 on French Mac Lion Ned Deily <nad@acm.org> - 2011-12-21 01:42 -0500
        [FIXED] Re: Can't get tilde character with IDLE 3.2.2 on French Mac Lion Ned Deily <nad@acm.org> - 2012-03-04 17:41 -0800

#17504 — Can't get tilde character with IDLE 3.2.2 on French Mac Lion

Hi !
All is in the subject. I'm starting to use Python with Idle 3.2.2
on MacOS-X Lion (French). I can't get "Option-N space" to provide 
the ~ char.
I tried to go into the Keys preferences but I can't find "Option-N space"
to modify its meaning. Its actual behavior is to merge lines of a 
paragraph.
Thanks for help !

   franck

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#17520

In article <franck-6EFD3C.10155219122011@news.free.fr>,
 Franck Ditter <franck@ditter.org> wrote:
> All is in the subject. I'm starting to use Python with Idle 3.2.2
> on MacOS-X Lion (French). I can't get "Option-N space" to provide 
> the ~ char.
> I tried to go into the Keys preferences but I can't find "Option-N space"
> to modify its meaning. Its actual behavior is to merge lines of a 
> paragraph.

You are likely running into a current problem in the OS X Cocoa version 
of Tcl/Tk 8.5 as included with Lion and as shipped by ActiveState.  
Previously, if you tried to type composite characters, like Option N, 
the Cocoa Tcl/Tk would crash.  Pending a real fix, a patch was made to 
Tcl/Tk 8.5 to discard composite characters rather than crash.  You 
should be able to get a tilde by using the post-composite keyboard 
sequence:  try typing "space" followed by "Shift-Option-N".

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2907388&group_id
=12997&atid=112997

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad@acm.org

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#17574

Nope, "space" followed by "Shift-Option-N" gives a greek iota...
I tried other combinations, unsuccessfully.
IDLE 3 (French) seems to be unusable as we use many ~ in web applications :-(
Should we hope a fix soon, or leave IDLE ?
Thanks,

    franck

In article <mailman.3825.1324322364.27778.python-list@python.org>,
 Ned Deily <nad@acm.org> wrote:

> In article <franck-6EFD3C.10155219122011@news.free.fr>,
>  Franck Ditter <franck@ditter.org> wrote:
> > All is in the subject. I'm starting to use Python with Idle 3.2.2
> > on MacOS-X Lion (French). I can't get "Option-N space" to provide 
> > the ~ char.
> > I tried to go into the Keys preferences but I can't find "Option-N space"
> > to modify its meaning. Its actual behavior is to merge lines of a 
> > paragraph.
> 
> You are likely running into a current problem in the OS X Cocoa version 
> of Tcl/Tk 8.5 as included with Lion and as shipped by ActiveState.  
> Previously, if you tried to type composite characters, like Option N, 
> the Cocoa Tcl/Tk would crash.  Pending a real fix, a patch was made to 
> Tcl/Tk 8.5 to discard composite characters rather than crash.  You 
> should be able to get a tilde by using the post-composite keyboard 
> sequence:  try typing "space" followed by "Shift-Option-N".
> 
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2907388&group_id=12997&atid=112997

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#17647

In article <franck-FC679D.13562020122011@news.free.fr>,
 Franck Ditter <franck@ditter.org> wrote:
> In article <mailman.3825.1324322364.27778.python-list@python.org>,
>  Ned Deily <nad@acm.org> wrote:
> > In article <franck-6EFD3C.10155219122011@news.free.fr>,
> >  Franck Ditter <franck@ditter.org> wrote:
> > > All is in the subject. I'm starting to use Python with Idle 3.2.2
> > > on MacOS-X Lion (French). I can't get "Option-N space" to provide 
> > > the ~ char.
> > > I tried to go into the Keys preferences but I can't find "Option-N space"
> > > to modify its meaning. Its actual behavior is to merge lines of a 
> > > paragraph.
> > You are likely running into a current problem in the OS X Cocoa version 
> > of Tcl/Tk 8.5 as included with Lion and as shipped by ActiveState.  
> > Previously, if you tried to type composite characters, like Option N, 
> > the Cocoa Tcl/Tk would crash.  Pending a real fix, a patch was made to 
> > Tcl/Tk 8.5 to discard composite characters rather than crash.  You 
> > should be able to get a tilde by using the post-composite keyboard 
> > sequence:  try typing "space" followed by "Shift-Option-N".
> > 
> > http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2907388&group_id=12
> > 997&atid=112997
> Nope, "space" followed by "Shift-Option-N" gives a greek iota...
> I tried other combinations, unsuccessfully.
> IDLE 3 (French) seems to be unusable as we use many ~ in web applications :-(
> Should we hope a fix soon, or leave IDLE ?

Yes, I see now that that won't work with the French input method.  
Unfortunately, there is nothing that IDLE or Python can do to workaround 
the issue as the problem is in Cocoa Tcl/Tk and I don't know that any 
fix is being worked on.

One approach that *might* work is to create a modified French keyboard 
layout that substitutes tilde for some other key combination without 
using a dead key (Option-N is a dead key).  Ukelele.app seems to be the 
most frequently recommended keyboard layout editor for OS X and comes 
with extensive documentation.  I don't have time right now to experiment 
with it but I would be interested to hear if someone is able to make it 
work.

http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=ukelele

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad@acm.org

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#21209 — [FIXED] Re: Can't get tilde character with IDLE 3.2.2 on French Mac Lion

A followup to a thread in 2011-12.

In article <nad-D24D39.01420521122011@news.gmane.org>,
 Ned Deily <nad@acm.org> wrote:
> In article <franck-FC679D.13562020122011@news.free.fr>,
>  Franck Ditter <franck@ditter.org> wrote:
> > In article <mailman.3825.1324322364.27778.python-list@python.org>,
> >  Ned Deily <nad@acm.org> wrote:
> > > In article <franck-6EFD3C.10155219122011@news.free.fr>,
> > >  Franck Ditter <franck@ditter.org> wrote:
> > > > All is in the subject. I'm starting to use Python with Idle 3.2.2
> > > > on MacOS-X Lion (French). I can't get "Option-N space" to provide 
> > > > the ~ char.
> > > > I tried to go into the Keys preferences but I can't find "Option-N 
> > > > space"
> > > > to modify its meaning. Its actual behavior is to merge lines of a 
> > > > paragraph.
> > > You are likely running into a current problem in the OS X Cocoa version 
> > > of Tcl/Tk 8.5 as included with Lion and as shipped by ActiveState.  
> > > Previously, if you tried to type composite characters, like Option N, 
> > > the Cocoa Tcl/Tk would crash.  Pending a real fix, a patch was made to 
> > > Tcl/Tk 8.5 to discard composite characters rather than crash.  You 
> > > should be able to get a tilde by using the post-composite keyboard 
> > > sequence:  try typing "space" followed by "Shift-Option-N".
> > > 
> > > http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2907388&group_id=
> > > 12
> > > 997&atid=112997
> > Nope, "space" followed by "Shift-Option-N" gives a greek iota...
> > I tried other combinations, unsuccessfully.
> > IDLE 3 (French) seems to be unusable as we use many ~ in web applications 
> > :-(
> > Should we hope a fix soon, or leave IDLE ?
> 
> Yes, I see now that that won't work with the French input method.  
> Unfortunately, there is nothing that IDLE or Python can do to workaround 
> the issue as the problem is in Cocoa Tcl/Tk and I don't know that any 
> fix is being worked on.

Good news!  A fix for Cocoa Tcl/Tk 8.5 for improved handling of Mac OS X 
input methods was recently applied and has now been released in the 
latest ActiveState Tcl release (8.5.11.1) available here:

    http://www.activestate.com/activetcl/downloads

It appears to fix the tilde problem and other similar problems with 
composite characters, like Option-U + vowel to form "umlauted" vowels in 
the U.S. input method.  Many thanks to Adrian Robert, Kevin Walzer, and 
the ActiveState team for addressing this nasty problem.

If you install ActiveState Tcl 8.5.x, it will automatically be used by 
the python.org 2.7.x, 3.2.x, and 3.3.x 64-bit/32-bit Pythons for OS X 
10.6 and 10.7.  It will *not* be used by the Apple-supplied system 
Pythons or by 32-bit-only python.org Pythons.   More details here:

    http://www.python.org/download/mac/tcltk/

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad@acm.org

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