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Groups > comp.lang.python > #49006 > unrolled thread

Python development tools

Started bycutems93 <ms2597@cornell.edu>
First post2013-06-23 13:40 -0700
Last post2013-06-24 19:21 -0700
Articles 7 on this page of 27 — 15 participants

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  Python development tools cutems93 <ms2597@cornell.edu> - 2013-06-23 13:40 -0700
    Re: Python development tools Giorgos Tzampanakis <giorgos.tzampanakis@gmail.com> - 2013-06-23 22:19 +0000
    Re: Python development tools rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-23 16:18 -0700
      Re: Python development tools Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-06-23 19:49 -0400
        Re: Python development tools rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-23 17:16 -0700
          Re: Python development tools Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-06-23 20:22 -0400
            Re: Python development tools Tim Chase <python.list@thechases.com> - 2013-06-23 19:54 -0500
              Re: Python development tools Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-06-23 21:16 -0400
          Re: Python development tools CM <cmpython@gmail.com> - 2013-06-23 17:41 -0700
      Re: Python development tools rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-23 20:17 -0700
    Re: Python development tools Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-24 00:28 +0000
      Re: Python development tools rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-23 20:13 -0700
    Re: Python development tools Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-06-23 19:41 -0600
    Re: Python development tools CM <cmpython@gmail.com> - 2013-06-23 22:19 -0700
    Re: Python development tools cutems93 <ms2597@cornell.edu> - 2013-06-23 22:34 -0700
      Re: Python development tools rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-23 23:13 -0700
        Re: Python development tools Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-06-24 16:20 +1000
          Re: Python development tools rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-23 23:36 -0700
            Re: Python development tools Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-06-25 09:11 +1000
              Re: Python development tools rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-24 19:24 -0700
                Re: Python development tools MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-06-25 03:39 +0100
                  Re: Python development tools rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-24 20:03 -0700
                  Re: Python development tools Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-25 13:36 +0000
    Re: Python development tools Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-24 14:28 +0000
      Re: Python development tools Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2013-06-25 07:36 +1000
    Re: Python development tools Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2013-06-24 19:15 +0200
    Re: Python development tools Reed Xia <huaqin2005@gmail.com> - 2013-06-24 19:21 -0700

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#49121

FromMRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Date2013-06-25 03:39 +0100
Message-ID<mailman.3793.1372127955.3114.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#49120
On 25/06/2013 03:24, rusi wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 25, 2013 4:41:22 AM UTC+5:30, Ben Finney wrote:
>> rusi  writes:
>> > I dont however think that the two philosophies are the same. See
>> > http://www.tcl.tk/doc/scripting.html
>>
>> That essay constrasts “scripting” versus “system programming”, a useful
>> (though terminologically confusing) distinction.
>>
>> It's a mistake to think that essay contrasts “scripting“ versus
>> “programming”. But the essay never justifies its aversion to
>> “programming” as a term for what it's describing, so that mistake is
>> easy to make.
>
> The essay is 15 years old. So a bit dated. Referred to it as it conveys the sense/philosophy of scripting.
>
>>
>> > On Monday, June 24, 2013 11:50:38 AM UTC+5:30, Ben Finney wrote:
>> > > Any time someone has shown me a “Python script”, I don't see how
>> > > it's different from what I'd call a “Python program”. So I just
>> > > mentally replace “scripting with “programming”.
>> >
>> > If you are saying that python spans the scripting to programming
>> > spectrum exceptionally well, I agree.
>>
>> I'm saying that “scripting” is a complete subset of “programming”, so
>> it's nonsense to talk about “the scripting-to-programming spectrum”.
>>
>> Scripting is, always, programming. Scripts are, always, programs. (But
>> not vice-versa; I do acknowledge there is more to programming than
>> scripting.) I say this because anything anyone has said to me about the
>> former is always something included already by the latter.
>>
>> So I don't see much need for treating scripts as somehow distinct from
>> programs, or scripting as somehow distinct from programming. Whenever
>> you're doing the former, you're doing the latter by definition.
>>
>
> My personal associations with the word 'scripting'
>
> - Cavalier attitude towards efficiency

And convenience for the programmer.

"""Manipulating long texts using variable-length strings? Yes, I know 
it's inefficient, but it's still faster than doing it by hand!"""

> - No interest (and maybe some scorn) towards over-engineering (hence OOP)
> - Heavy use of regular expressions, also sophistication of the command-line args
> - A sense (maybe vague) of being glue more than computation, eg. a bash script is almost certain to invoke something other than builtins alone and is more likely to invoke a non-bash script than a bash script.  For a C program that likelihood is the other way round.  For python it could be either
>
Automating tasks, e.g. controlling other applications and stringing 
together tasks that you would otherwise be doing by hand.

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#49122

Fromrusi <rustompmody@gmail.com>
Date2013-06-24 20:03 -0700
Message-ID<59b13d86-8f6f-4260-8029-a66fce1562fc@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#49121
On Tuesday, June 25, 2013 8:09:19 AM UTC+5:30, MRAB wrote:


> And convenience for the programmer.
> 
> """Manipulating long texts using variable-length strings? Yes, I know 
> it's inefficient, but it's still faster than doing it by hand!"""

Well... did not say it because it tends to be emotionally charged :-)
C programmers find C convenient.
Haskell programmers find monads convenient
Python programmers are (increasingly) finding OOP convenient

> Automating tasks, e.g. controlling other applications and stringing 
> together tasks that you would otherwise be doing by hand.

Yes scripting is more programmer oriented as against GUIs which are more user oriented.
Related: scripting is more FP-ish, whereas GUIs are more OOP-ish.
A shell pipeline is really function composition in different syntax and a back-quoted command is close to a higher-order function.
By contrast a windows user clicks on a 'doc' and it just 'opens'
Many of them dont exactly know the diff between a doc and MsWord.
And even a supposed programmer (like yours truly) has a hell of a time finding the executable when needed.

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#49157

FromGrant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid>
Date2013-06-25 13:36 +0000
Message-ID<kqc6dj$aj0$1@reader2.panix.com>
In reply to#49121
On 2013-06-25, MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:

> Automating tasks, e.g. controlling other applications and stringing 
> together tasks that you would otherwise be doing by hand.

That, IMO, is the definition of "scripting": writing a program to
automate a task that would probably be done by hand if you didn't have
to do it more that a few times.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! I'm a fuschia bowling
                                  at               ball somewhere in Brittany
                              gmail.com

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#49051

FromGrant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid>
Date2013-06-24 14:28 +0000
Message-ID<kq9l2a$6j1$2@reader2.panix.com>
In reply to#49006
On 2013-06-23, cutems93 <ms2597@cornell.edu> wrote:

> I am new to python development and I want to know what kinds of tools
> people use for python development.

 1) emacs
 2) Cpython
 3) subversion
 4) http://www.python.org/doc/
 5) comp.lang.python 

99.9% of the programs I write are command-line tools.
 
-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! I'm shaving!!
                                  at               I'M SHAVING!!
                              gmail.com

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#49089

FromCameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au>
Date2013-06-25 07:36 +1000
Message-ID<mailman.3772.1372109818.3114.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#49051
On 24Jun2013 14:28, Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
| On 2013-06-23, cutems93 <ms2597@cornell.edu> wrote:
| > I am new to python development and I want to know what kinds of tools
| > people use for python development.
| 
|  1) emacs
|  2) Cpython
|  3) subversion
|  4) http://www.python.org/doc/
|  5) comp.lang.python 

1) vi/vim
2) Cpython
3) mercurial
4) local copy of http://www.python.org/doc/ for python 2 and 3
   (lets me work offline and snappier to browse)
5) python-list@python.org

| 99.9% of the programs I write are command-line tools.

99.9% of the programs I write are command-line tools.

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au>

The simple truth is that interstellar distances will not fit into the
human imagination. - Douglas Adams

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#49056

FromWolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net>
Date2013-06-24 19:15 +0200
Message-ID<20130624191511.92028923ccdbf74f8842ebdb@gmx.net>
In reply to#49006
> Also, I will use GUI interface for Python. What kind of widget
> toolkits do you recommend? I know there are GTK+ and Qt. 

wxPython, PyGUI...

Sincerely,

Wolfgang

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#49119

FromReed Xia <huaqin2005@gmail.com>
Date2013-06-24 19:21 -0700
Message-ID<d517332e-93d1-4610-b0de-4706c6c1b070@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#49006
在 2013年6月24日星期一UTC+8上午4时40分07秒，cutems93写道：
> Hello, 
> 
> 
> 
> I am new to python development and I want to know what kinds of tools people use for python development. I went to Python website and found several tools. 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Automated Refactoring Tools
> 
> 2. Bug Tracking
> 
> 3. Configuration And BuildTools
> 
> 4. Distribution Utilities
> 
> 5. Documentation Tools
> 
> 6. Integrated Development Environments
> 
> 7. Python Debuggers
> 
> 8. Python Editors
> 
> 9. Python Shells
> 
> 10. Test Software
> 
> 11. Useful Modules
> 
> 12. Version Control
> 
> 
> 
> What else do I need? Also, which software is used in daily base? I know version control software and bug tracking software are used almost everyday by developers. Which software is used less often? 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I will use GUI interface for Python. What kind of widget toolkits do you recommend? I know there are GTK+ and Qt. 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you in advance!
> 
> -Min S.-

It's a big question.

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