Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > comp.lang.python > #47866 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2013-06-13 00:13 +0000 |
| Last post | 2013-06-20 19:08 +0200 |
| Articles | 10 on this page of 90 — 31 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.python
This discussion starts older than the indexed window; earlier articles aren't shown. The article labeled Started by
below is the oldest one visible, not the original post.
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-13 00:13 +0000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Νικόλαος Κούρας <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-13 09:09 +0300
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-13 07:11 +0000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Νικόλαος Κούρας <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-13 10:42 +0300
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-13 17:58 +1000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Νικόλαος Κούρας <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-13 11:08 +0300
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-13 18:20 +1000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Νικόλαος Κούρας <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-13 12:41 +0300
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-13 11:49 +0000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Νικόλαος Κούρας <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-13 17:19 +0300
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2013-06-14 11:00 +1000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 09:59 +0300
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2013-06-14 20:14 +1000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 16:58 +0300
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-06-14 11:21 -0400
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 18:26 +0300
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 03:03 +1000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> - 2013-06-14 23:32 +0000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2013-06-15 10:26 +1000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 06:34 +0000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-15 14:44 +0000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-15 17:49 +0300
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-15 15:30 +0000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-06-15 10:59 -0400
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-15 18:14 +0300
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 11:35 -0400
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-15 22:26 +0300
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Benjamin Schollnick <benjamin@schollnick.net> - 2013-06-15 16:35 -0400
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2013-06-16 15:45 +0200
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-14 09:36 +0200
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 10:49 +0300
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-14 10:22 +0200
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 11:37 +0300
Don't feed the troll... (was: Re: A few questiosn about encoding) Heiko Wundram <modelnine@modelnine.org> - 2013-06-14 11:06 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 12:32 +0300
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-14 13:09 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 15:36 +0300
Re: Don't feed the troll... Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-06-14 08:44 -0400
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-14 15:25 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-06-14 15:54 +0000
Re: Don't feed the troll... Heiko Wundram <modelnine@modelnine.org> - 2013-06-14 12:15 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Guy Scree <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2013-06-14 18:50 -0400
Re: Don't feed the troll... Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 06:31 +0000
Re: Don't feed the troll... Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-06-15 13:04 -0400
Re: Don't feed the troll... Guy Scree <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2013-06-17 16:15 -0400
Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-18 07:46 +1000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2013-06-14 20:19 +1000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 15:41 +0300
Re: Don't feed the troll... (was: Re: A few questiosn about encoding) Fábio Santos <fabiosantosart@gmail.com> - 2013-06-14 11:20 +0100
Re: Don't feed the troll... (was: Re: A few questiosn about encoding) rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-14 04:51 -0700
Re: Don't feed the help-vampire rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-14 05:09 -0700
Re: Don't feed the help-vampire Heiko Wundram <modelnine@modelnine.org> - 2013-06-14 14:31 +0200
Re: Don't feed the help-vampire Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-14 10:51 -0600
Re: Don't feed the troll... Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 15:50 +0300
Re: Don't feed the troll... Zero Piraeus <schesis@gmail.com> - 2013-06-14 09:33 -0400
Re: Don't feed the troll... Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 15:45 +0300
Re: Don't feed the troll... Heiko Wundram <modelnine@modelnine.org> - 2013-06-14 14:58 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Fábio Santos <fabiosantosart@gmail.com> - 2013-06-14 14:25 +0100
Re: Don't feed the troll... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-14 17:12 +0100
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-14 12:50 +0200
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 15:59 +0300
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-14 15:52 +0200
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2013-06-15 10:28 +1000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-17 08:49 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-14 12:57 +0100
Re: Don't feed the troll... (was: Re: A few questiosn about encoding) "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> - 2013-06-14 13:13 -0400
Re: Don't feed the troll... (was: Re: A few questiosn about encoding) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 03:31 +1000
Re: Don't feed the troll... (was: Re: A few questiosn about encoding) Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-14 19:40 +0000
Re: Don't feed the troll "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> - 2013-06-14 13:56 -0400
Re: Don't feed the troll Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2013-06-14 14:00 -0500
Re: Don't feed the troll "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> - 2013-06-14 15:17 -0400
Re: Don't feed the troll... Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-06-15 10:42 +1000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-06-19 18:46 -0700
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-20 06:26 +0000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-06-20 12:43 +0100
Re: A few questiosn about encoding wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-06-20 09:27 -0700
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-21 02:37 +1000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-06-20 18:17 +0100
Re: A few questiosn about encoding wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-06-23 08:51 -0700
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-23 16:30 +0000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-06-25 13:16 -0700
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-21 03:21 +1000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-20 20:43 +0100
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-06-20 06:40 -0700
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Andrew Berg <robotsondrugs@gmail.com> - 2013-06-20 09:04 -0500
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-06-20 08:12 -0700
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-21 01:26 +1000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Jussi Piitulainen <jpiitula@ling.helsinki.fi> - 2013-06-20 20:25 +0300
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-21 01:28 +1000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Andreas Perstinger <andipersti@gmail.com> - 2013-06-20 19:08 +0200
Page 5 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5]
| From | wxjmfauth@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-25 13:16 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <d15fd63c-283a-437d-9b27-0c19a5b69430@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #48989 |
Le dimanche 23 juin 2013 18:30:40 UTC+2, Steven D'Aprano a écrit :
> On Sun, 23 Jun 2013 08:51:41 -0700, wxjmfauth wrote:
>
>
>
> > utf-8: how many bytes to hold an "a" in memory? one byte.
>
> >
>
> > flexible string representation: how many bytes to hold an "a" in memory?
>
> > One byte? No, two. (Funny, it consumes more memory to hold an ascii char
>
> > than ascii itself)
>
>
>
> Incorrect. Python strings have overhead because they are objects, so
>
> let's see the difference adding a single character makes:
>
>
>
> # Python 3.3, with the hated flexible string representation:
>
> py> sys.getsizeof('a'*100) - sys.getsizeof('a'*99)
>
> 1
>
>
>
> # Python 3.2:
>
> py> sys.getsizeof('a'*100) - sys.getsizeof('a'*99)
>
> 4
>
>
>
>
>
> How about a French é character? Of course, ASCII cannot store it *at
>
> all*, but let's see what Python can do:
>
>
>
>
>
> # The hated Python 3.3 again:
>
> py> sys.getsizeof('é'*100) - sys.getsizeof('é'*99)
>
> 1
>
>
>
>
>
> # And Python 3.2:
>
> py> sys.getsizeof('é'*100) - sys.getsizeof('é'*99)
>
> 4
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > utf-8: In a series of bytes implementing the encoded code points
>
> > supposed to hold a string, picking a byte and finding to which encoded
>
> > code point it belongs is a no prolem.
>
>
>
> Incorrect. UTF-8 is unsuitable for random access, since it has variable-
>
> width characters, anything from 1 to 4 bytes. So you cannot just jump
>
> directly to character 1000 in a block of text, you have to inspect each
>
> byte one-by-one to decide whether it is a 1, 2, 3 or 4 byte character.
>
>
>
>
>
> > flexible string representation: In a series of bytes implementing the
>
> > encoded code points supposed to hold a string, picking a byte and
>
> > finding to which encoded code point it belongs is ... impossible !
>
>
>
> Incorrect. It is absolutely trivial. Each string is marked as either 1-
>
> byte, 2-byte or 4-byte. If it is a 1-byte string, then each byte is one
>
> character. If it is a 2-byte string, then it is just like Python 3.2
>
> narrow build, and each two bytes is a character. If it is a 4-byte
>
> string, then it is just like Python 3.2 wide build, and each four bytes
>
> is a character. Within a single string, the number of bytes per character
>
> is fixed, and random access is easy and fast.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Steven
:-)
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-21 03:21 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3635.1371748902.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #48806 |
On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 3:17 AM, MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote: > On 20/06/2013 17:37, Chris Angelico wrote: >> >> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 2:27 AM, <wxjmfauth@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> And all these coding schemes have something in common, >>> they work all with a unique set of code points, more >>> precisely a unique set of encoded code points (not >>> the set of implemented code points (byte)). >>> >>> Just what the flexible string representation is not >>> doing, it artificially devides unicode in subsets and try >>> to handle eache subset differently. >>> >> >> >> UTF-16 divides Unicode into two subsets: BMP characters (encoded using >> one 16-bit unit) and astral characters (encoded using two 16-bit units >> in the D800::/5 netblock, or equivalent thereof). Your beloved narrow >> builds are guilty of exactly the same crime as the hated 3.3. >> > UTF-8 divides Unicode into subsets which are encoded in 1, 2, 3, or 4 > bytes, and those who previously used ASCII still need only 1 byte per > codepoint! Yes, but there's never (AFAIK) been a Python implementation that represents strings in UTF-8; UTF-16 was one of two options for Python 2.2 through 3.2, and is the one that jmf always seems to be measuring against. ChrisA
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-20 20:43 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3639.1371757432.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #48806 |
On 20/06/2013 17:27, wxjmfauth@gmail.com wrote: > Le jeudi 20 juin 2013 13:43:28 UTC+2, MRAB a écrit : >> On 20/06/2013 07:26, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> >>> On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 18:46:59 -0700, Rick Johnson wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> On Thursday, June 13, 2013 2:11:08 AM UTC-5, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> Gah! That's twice I've screwed that up. Sorry about that! >> >>>> >> >>>> Yeah, and your difficulty explaining the Unicode implementation reminds >> >>>> me of a passage from the Python zen: >> >>>> >> >>>> "If the implementation is hard to explain, it's a bad idea." >> >>> >> >>> The *implementation* is easy to explain. It's the names of the encodings >> >>> which I get tangled up in. >> >>> >> >> You're off by one below! >> >>> >> >>> ASCII: Supports exactly 127 code points, each of which takes up exactly 7 >> >>> bits. Each code point represents a character. >> >>> >> >> 128 codepoints. >> >> >> >>> Latin-1, Latin-2, MacRoman, MacGreek, ISO-8859-7, Big5, Windows-1251, and >> >>> about a gazillion other legacy charsets, all of which are mutually >> >>> incompatible: supports anything from 127 to 65535 different code points, >> >>> usually under 256. >> >>> >> >> 128 to 65536 codepoints. >> >> >> >>> UCS-2: Supports exactly 65535 code points, each of which takes up exactly >> >>> two bytes. That's fewer than required, so it is obsoleted by: >> >>> >> >> 65536 codepoints. >> >> >> >> etc. >> >> >> >>> UTF-16: Supports all 1114111 code points in the Unicode charset, using a >> >>> variable-width system where the most popular characters use exactly two- >> >>> bytes and the remaining ones use a pair of characters. >> >>> >> >>> UCS-4: Supports exactly 4294967295 code points, each of which takes up >> >>> exactly four bytes. That is more than needed for the Unicode charset, so >> >>> this is obsoleted by: >> >>> >> >>> UTF-32: Supports all 1114111 code points, using exactly four bytes each. >> >>> Code points outside of the range 0 through 1114111 inclusive are an error. >> >>> >> >>> UTF-8: Supports all 1114111 code points, using a variable-width system >> >>> where popular ASCII characters require 1 byte, and others use 2, 3 or 4 >> >>> bytes as needed. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Ignoring the legacy charsets, only UTF-16 is a terribly complicated >> >>> implementation, due to the surrogate pairs. But even that is not too bad. >> >>> The real complication comes from the interactions between systems which >> >>> use different encodings, and that's nothing to do with Unicode. >> >>> >> >>> > > And all these coding schemes have something in common, > they work all with a unique set of code points, more > precisely a unique set of encoded code points (not > the set of implemented code points (byte)). > > Just what the flexible string representation is not > doing, it artificially devides unicode in subsets and try > to handle eache subset differently. > > On this other side, that is because it is impossible to > work properly with multiple sets of encoded code points > that all these coding schemes exist today. There are simply > no other way. > > Even "exotic" schemes like "CID-fonts" used in pdf > are based on that scheme. > > jmf > I entirely agree with the viewpoints of jmfauth, Nick the Greek, rr, Xah Lee and Ilias Lazaridis on the grounds that disagreeing and stating my beliefs ends up with the Python Mailing List police standing on my back doorsetep. Give me the NSA or GCHQ any day of the week :( -- "Steve is going for the pink ball - and for those of you who are watching in black and white, the pink is next to the green." Snooker commentator 'Whispering' Ted Lowe. Mark Lawrence
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-20 06:40 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <4160f6c9-8a53-432f-b807-ae33ed69ac97@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #48777 |
On Thursday, June 20, 2013 1:26:17 AM UTC-5, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> The *implementation* is easy to explain. It's the names of
> the encodings which I get tangled up in.
Well, ignoring the fact that you're last explanation is
still buggy, you have not actually described an
"implementation", no, you've merely generalized ( and quite
vaguely i might add) the technical specification of a few
encoding. Let's ask Wikipedia to enlighten us on the
subject of "implementation":
############################################################
# Define: Implementation #
############################################################
# In computer science, an implementation is a realization #
# of a technical specification or algorithm as a program, #
# software component, or other computer system through #
# computer programming and deployment. Many #
# implementations may exist for a given specification or #
# standard. For example, web browsers contain #
# implementations of World Wide Web Consortium-recommended #
# specifications, and software development tools contain #
# implementations of programming languages. #
############################################################
Do you think someone could reliably implement the alphabet of a new
language in Unicode by using the general outline you
provided? -- again, ignoring your continual fumbling when
explaining that simple generalization :-)
Your generalization is analogous to explaining web browsers
as: "software that allows a user to view web pages in the
range www.*" Do you think someone could implement a web
browser from such limited specification? (if that was all
they knew?).
============================================================
Since we're on the subject of Unicode:
============================================================
One the most humorous aspects of Unicode is that it has
encodings for Braille characters. Hmm, this presents a
conundrum of sorts. RIDDLE ME THIS?!
Since Braille is a type of "reading" for the blind by
utilizing the sense of touch (therefore DEMANDING 3
dimensions) and glyphs derived from Unicode are
restrictively two dimensional, because let's face it people,
Unicode exists in your computer, and computer screens are
two dimensional... but you already knew that -- i think?,
then what is the purpose of a Unicode Braille character set?
That should haunt your nightmares for some time.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Andrew Berg <robotsondrugs@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-20 09:04 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3623.1371737101.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #48791 |
On 2013.06.20 08:40, Rick Johnson wrote: > One the most humorous aspects of Unicode is that it has > encodings for Braille characters. Hmm, this presents a > conundrum of sorts. RIDDLE ME THIS?! > > Since Braille is a type of "reading" for the blind by > utilizing the sense of touch (therefore DEMANDING 3 > dimensions) and glyphs derived from Unicode are > restrictively two dimensional, because let's face it people, > Unicode exists in your computer, and computer screens are > two dimensional... but you already knew that -- i think?, > then what is the purpose of a Unicode Braille character set? Two dimensional characters can be made into 3 dimensional shapes. Building numbers are a good example of this. We already have one Unicode troll; do we really need you too? -- CPython 3.3.2 | Windows NT 6.2.9200 / FreeBSD 9.1
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-20 08:12 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <0f045970-7c77-4d66-81cf-214f111232c3@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #48794 |
On Thursday, June 20, 2013 9:04:50 AM UTC-5, Andrew Berg wrote: > On 2013.06.20 08:40, Rick Johnson wrote: > > then what is the purpose of a Unicode Braille character set? > Two dimensional characters can be made into 3 dimensional shapes. Yes in the real world. But what about on your computer screen? How do you plan on creating tactile representations of braille glyphs on my monitor? Hey, if you can already do this, please share, as it sure would make internet porn more interesting! > Building numbers are a good example of this. Either the matrix is reality or you must live inside your computer as a virtual being. Is your name Tron? Are you a pawn of Master Control? He's such a tyrant!
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-21 01:26 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3625.1371741988.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #48799 |
On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 1:12 AM, Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thursday, June 20, 2013 9:04:50 AM UTC-5, Andrew Berg wrote: >> On 2013.06.20 08:40, Rick Johnson wrote: > >> > then what is the purpose of a Unicode Braille character set? >> Two dimensional characters can be made into 3 dimensional shapes. > > Yes in the real world. But what about on your computer > screen? How do you plan on creating tactile representations of > braille glyphs on my monitor? Hey, if you can already do this, > please share, as it sure would make internet porn more > interesting! I had a device for creating embossed text. It predated Unicode by a couple of years at least (not sure how many, because I was fairly young at the time). It was made by a company called Epson, it plugged into the computer via a 25-pin plug, and when it was properly functioning, it had a ribbon of ink that it would bash through to darken the underside of the embossed text. But sometimes that ribbon slipped out of position, and we had beautifully-hammered ASCII text, unsullied by ink. And since the device did graphics too, it could be used for the entire Unicode character set if you wanted. Not sure that it would improve your porn any, but I've no doubt you could try if you wanted. ChrisA
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Jussi Piitulainen <jpiitula@ling.helsinki.fi> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-20 20:25 +0300 |
| Message-ID | <qota9mkwv80.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi> |
| In reply to | #48799 |
Rick Johnson writes: > On Thursday, June 20, 2013 9:04:50 AM UTC-5, Andrew Berg wrote: > > On 2013.06.20 08:40, Rick Johnson wrote: > > > > then what is the purpose of a Unicode Braille character set? > > Two dimensional characters can be made into 3 dimensional shapes. > > Yes in the real world. But what about on your computer screen? How > do you plan on creating tactile representations of braille glyphs on > my monitor? Hey, if you can already do this, please share, as it > sure would make internet porn more interesting! Search for braille display on the web. A wikipedia article also led me to braille e-book. (Or search for braille porn, since you are so inclined - the concept turns out to be already out there on the web.)
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-21 01:28 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3626.1371742118.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #48791 |
On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 11:40 PM, Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> wrote: > Your generalization is analogous to explaining web browsers > as: "software that allows a user to view web pages in the > range www.*" Do you think someone could implement a web > browser from such limited specification? (if that was all > they knew?). Wow. That spec isn't limited, it's downright faulty. Or do you really think that (a) there is such a thing as the "range www.*", and that (b) that "range" has anything to do with web browsers? ChrisA
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Andreas Perstinger <andipersti@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-20 19:08 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3631.1371748097.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #48791 |
Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> wrote: >============================================================ > Since we're on the subject of Unicode: >============================================================ >One the most humorous aspects of Unicode is that it has >encodings for Braille characters. Hmm, this presents a >conundrum of sorts. RIDDLE ME THIS?! > > Since Braille is a type of "reading" for the blind by > utilizing the sense of touch (therefore DEMANDING 3 > dimensions) and glyphs derived from Unicode are > restrictively two dimensional, because let's face it people, > Unicode exists in your computer, and computer screens are > two dimensional... but you already knew that -- i think?, > then what is the purpose of a Unicode Braille character set? > >That should haunt your nightmares for some time. From http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode6.2.0/ch15.pdf "The intent of encoding the 256 Braille patterns in the Unicode Standard is to allow input and output devices to be implemented that can interchange Braille data without having to go through a context-dependent conversion from semantic values to patterns, or vice versa. In this manner, final-form documents can be exchanged and faithfully rendered." http://files.pef-format.org/specifications/pef-2008-1/pef-specification.html#Unicode I wish you a pleasant sleep tonight. Bye, Andreas
[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]
Page 5 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5]
Back to top | Article view | comp.lang.python
csiph-web