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Newbie: Designer Looking to Build Graphics Editor (PS/AI)

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  Newbie: Designer Looking to Build Graphics Editor (PS/AI) Kenneth L <kennfletch@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 09:41 -0700
    Re: Newbie: Designer Looking to Build Graphics Editor (PS/AI) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 02:57 +1000
      Re: Newbie: Designer Looking to Build Graphics Editor (PS/AI) Kenneth L <kennfletch@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 11:25 -0700
        Re: Newbie: Designer Looking to Build Graphics Editor (PS/AI) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-10-02 22:40 +0100
    Re: Newbie: Designer Looking to Build Graphics Editor (PS/AI) Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-10-02 19:01 +0200
      Re: Newbie: Designer Looking to Build Graphics Editor (PS/AI) Kenneth L <kennfletch@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 11:27 -0700
        Re: Newbie: Designer Looking to Build Graphics Editor (PS/AI) Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2015-10-02 14:57 -0400
        Re: Newbie: Designer Looking to Build Graphics Editor (PS/AI) Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2015-10-02 15:01 -0400
        Re: Newbie: Designer Looking to Build Graphics Editor (PS/AI) Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 14:56 -0600
    Re: Newbie: Designer Looking to Build Graphics Editor (PS/AI) Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2015-10-02 17:39 +0000
      Re: Newbie: Designer Looking to Build Graphics Editor (PS/AI) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-10-02 22:29 +0100
      Re: Newbie: Designer Looking to Build Graphics Editor (PS/AI) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-10-04 14:40 +0300
        Re: Newbie: Designer Looking to Build Graphics Editor (PS/AI) Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2015-10-04 14:15 +0000
    Re: Newbie: Designer Looking to Build Graphics Editor (PS/AI) Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-02 20:40 +0100
      Re: Newbie: Designer Looking to Build Graphics Editor (PS/AI) Kenneth L <kennfletch@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 13:23 -0700
        Re: Newbie: Designer Looking to Build Graphics Editor (PS/AI) Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-02 21:51 +0100
        Re: Newbie: Designer Looking to Build Graphics Editor (PS/AI) Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 09:40 -0600
    Re: Newbie: Designer Looking to Build Graphics Editor (PS/AI) Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2015-10-02 18:31 -0400

#97340 — Newbie: Designer Looking to Build Graphics Editor (PS/AI)

I'm a graphic designer. I'm new to Python. I know html, css, alittle actioscript and little javascript. I actually build an iOS using Flash. I understand programming concepts I believe.

I'd like to build a Illustrator/Photoshop like program. Why, there are some features that I'd like to personally have. Example, randomizing the rotation, line height and sizing of text. You have to do this manually. It would be cool have a little program that is dedicated building logos. Not trying to reinvent the wheel. Just basic featuring of vector graphics program plus my enhancements.
Maybe this program could be base and it can export vector and bring into Photoshop to add finishing touches.

I heard Python is easy to learn. So my question is Python able to do this or connect with libraries? Plus where do I start? I watched python tutorials but they don't really show you how to build an application. How does one build a graphics program? LOL where do you start? How do you draw graphics on the screen?

I'm just confused.

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#97341

On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 2:41 AM, Kenneth L <kennfletch@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm a graphic designer. I'm new to Python. I know html, css, alittle actioscript and little javascript. I actually build an iOS using Flash. I understand programming concepts I believe.
>
> I'd like to build a Illustrator/Photoshop like program. Why, there are some features that I'd like to personally have. Example, randomizing the rotation, line height and sizing of text. You have to do this manually. It would be cool have a little program that is dedicated building logos. Not trying to reinvent the wheel. Just basic featuring of vector graphics program plus my enhancements.
> Maybe this program could be base and it can export vector and bring into Photoshop to add finishing touches.
>
> I heard Python is easy to learn. So my question is Python able to do this or connect with libraries? Plus where do I start? I watched python tutorials but they don't really show you how to build an application. How does one build a graphics program? LOL where do you start? How do you draw graphics on the screen?
>
> I'm just confused.

You basically have three options here.

1) Completely write a Photoshop-like program from scratch. There are
libraries that can do the heavy lifting for you (Pillow comes to
mind), but you'd be writing a big and complex UI. This is a huge job.
I recommend not doing this.

2) Find an existing open-source program that does what you want, and
hack on it; or find an existing program that has a plugin/extension
system, and write a plugin. This is a great option if one exists, but
bear in mind that you might have your choices restricted somewhat (eg
you might have to use a specific programming language, or you might
have to fit everything into a single menu item, etc).

3) Build a preprocessor or postprocessor for your images. You'd do
most of your work in a well-known program, and then when you get to
the very last step, you run your output file through a post-processor
(or you run your input files through a preprocessor prior to importing
them). This can work really well in some situations, but it isn't so
great for interactive work. But it's fairly straight-forward; you can
define your program purely in terms of its inputs and outputs, and you
can write it in any language you like.

Have a look into those options, and see what kind of job you're taking
on. (Hint: Options 2 and 3 are *much* smaller jobs than option 1 will
be.) Then decide whether it's within your time budget (don't forget
that you might have to learn some new technologies), and whether it'll
be worth the effort (and it's always more effort than you first think
it will be). And maybe, even if it's not really worth the effort,
it'll be enough fun that you barge ahead and do it anyway :)

ChrisA

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#97344

Well 15 years ago when I was 15 I wanted to model cars in 3D. It took me 100 hours and 5-10 years but I can modeling a realistic vehicle and other objects in 3d. It was time consuming and challenging but it was worth it. And honestly I've used my 3d modeling skills to build displays and products. It has helped me land jobs and keep jobs. It was a hobby.

I'm not afraid of the hard work. I just didn't know were to begin. If this takes me a few years that's fine, lol. I have 20-40 years on earth, hopefully.

I'm not sure about the plugin route. I'm not looking to build a plug, lol. Just a finger to point me where to go/start.

1&2 sound good to me.

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#97357

On 02/10/2015 19:25, Kenneth L wrote:
> Well 15 years ago when I was 15 I wanted to model cars in 3D. It took me 100 hours and 5-10 years but I can modeling a realistic vehicle and other objects in 3d. It was time consuming and challenging but it was worth it. And honestly I've used my 3d modeling skills to build displays and products. It has helped me land jobs and keep jobs. It was a hobby.
>
> I'm not afraid of the hard work. I just didn't know were to begin. If this takes me a few years that's fine, lol. I have 20-40 years on earth, hopefully.
>
> I'm not sure about the plugin route. I'm not looking to build a plug, lol. Just a finger to point me where to go/start.
>
> 1&2 sound good to me.
>

Please quote some context, you'll get a lot more help here if you do. 
Following threads can get tricky when there are sometimes hundreds of 
replies.

That said with existing programming skills I'd recommend starting out 
with Python 3, with this http://www.diveintopython3.net/ as good a place 
as any.  If that doesn't suit you feel free to come back, stating why 
and we'll find you an alternative.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence

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#97342

In a message of Fri, 02 Oct 2015 09:41:16 -0700, Kenneth L writes:

>I'd like to build a Illustrator/Photoshop like program. Why, there
 are some features that I'd like to personally have. Example,
 randomizing the rotation, line height and sizing of text. You have to
 do this manually. It would be cool have a little program that is
 dedicated building logos. Not trying to reinvent the wheel. Just
 basic featuring of vector graphics program plus my enhancements.


Do you know about GIMP?
http://www.gimp.org/

You can script it with Python.
http://www.gimp.org/docs/python/

Note: Play with GIMP first.  A whole lot.  Then learn Python -- a bit
with a tutorial here:
https://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/Programmers
or maybe here:
https://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/NonProgrammers

or -- well, these days there are plenty more that aren't on either of
those lists.

Then try to script gimp using python.
It's not the ideal place to learn how to program in Python, as
the Python in the examples there is fairly atypical for normal
Python programs, but it works ...

Welcome, welcome!

Laura

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#97346

I tried to use gimp but as a photoshop user it was horrible. I was trying to like it. That is a great idea tearing down gimp. that is how I learn html and css. Breakin down websites.

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#97347

On Fri, Oct 2, 2015, at 14:27, Kenneth L wrote:
> I tried to use gimp but as a photoshop user it was horrible.

This is off-topic, but have you tried Gimpshop?

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#97348

And right after I posted this I found all the stuff mentioning someone
had hijacked the name and added spyware... sorry...

On Fri, Oct 2, 2015, at 14:57, Random832 wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 2, 2015, at 14:27, Kenneth L wrote:
> > I tried to use gimp but as a photoshop user it was horrible.
> 
> This is off-topic, but have you tried Gimpshop?
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

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#97354

On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 12:27 PM, Kenneth L <kennfletch@gmail.com> wrote:
> I tried to use gimp but as a photoshop user it was horrible. I was trying to like it. That is a great idea tearing down gimp. that is how I learn html and css. Breakin down websites.

What about Inkscape? It's a lot friendlier than GIMP, and it sounds
like you're only really interested in vector graphics anyway. Inkscape
is also open source and also extensible with Python.

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#97343

On 2015-10-02, Kenneth L <kennfletch@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm a graphic designer. I'm new to Python. I know html, css, alittle
> actioscript and little javascript. I actually build an iOS using
> Flash. I understand programming concepts I believe.

> I'd like to build a Illustrator/Photoshop like program.

Holy Cow.

I'd like to build something just like the Brooklyn Bridge, only with
more lanes.

I've got a shovel.

And some bricks and wire.

I know how to stack the two bricks one on top of another.

What do I do next?

I'm just confused.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! PUNK ROCK!!  DISCO
                                  at               DUCK!!  BIRTH CONTROL!!
                              gmail.com            

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#97356

On 02/10/2015 18:39, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2015-10-02, Kenneth L <kennfletch@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm a graphic designer. I'm new to Python. I know html, css, alittle
>> actioscript and little javascript. I actually build an iOS using
>> Flash. I understand programming concepts I believe.
>
>> I'd like to build a Illustrator/Photoshop like program.
>
> Holy Cow.
>
> I'd like to build something just like the Brooklyn Bridge, only with
> more lanes.
>
> I've got a shovel.
>
> And some bricks and wire.
>
> I know how to stack the two bricks one on top of another.
>
> What do I do next?
>
> I'm just confused.
>

Make allowance for the number of guys who will die of the bends?

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence

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#97390

Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid>:

> Holy Cow.
>
> I'd like to build something just like the Brooklyn Bridge, only with
> more lanes.

Failed grandiose attempts make you into a better software developer.

Successful grandiose attempts even more so!

Always playing it safe condemns you to mediocrity. Not that mediocrity
is all that bad a place to be.


Marko

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#97393

On 2015-10-04, Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> wrote:
> Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid>:
>
>> Holy Cow.
>>
>> I'd like to build something just like the Brooklyn Bridge, only with
>> more lanes.
>
> Failed grandiose attempts make you into a better software developer.
>
> Successful grandiose attempts even more so!
>
> Always playing it safe condemns you to mediocrity. Not that
> mediocrity is all that bad a place to be.

Just pointing out that it _is_ a grandiose attempt...

If the OP still wants to undertake such a huge task, then I applaud
him.  It just struck me as amusing they he asked "how do I do it"
about such a huge project...

-- 
Grant

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#97350

On 02/10/2015 17:41, Kenneth L wrote:
> I actually build an iOS using Flash.

What does that mean? That you built an Apple-like operating system using 
Flash?

> I'd like to build a Illustrator/Photoshop like program.

You've probably got the message by now that that is not trivial.

> Maybe this program could be base and it can export vector and bring into Photoshop to add finishing touches.

Yes, I did something like that (but many years ago with not so many 
libraries). Users took my 3D vector output and used 3D Studio to render it.

Still, even an application that does the basic stuff will be a long, 
hard slog to do, and most of it is going to be concerned with a million 
uninteresting details, probably GUI-related.

> I heard Python is easy to learn. So my question is Python able to do this or connect with libraries? Plus where do I start? I watched python tutorials but they don't really show you how to build an application. How does one build a graphics program? LOL where do you start? How do you draw graphics on the screen?

In that case you're probably being over-ambitious. One problem with 
Python is that it can be quite slow when it needs to do detailed things 
itself, and it has to rely on libraries written in other, faster 
languages. If what you want to do can't be directly done by calling a 
series of such library functions, then you would really need to code in 
another language.

> I'm just confused.

Try something much simpler first.

-- 
Bartc

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#97351

No don't tell me what to do. I joined the military 3 years ago. You wouldn't believe the stuff I wasn't able to do before but now I am. You can keep your advice to yourself. I wasn't asking for something simple. I was asking for a starting point. The 3d was to show you I've learned hard stuff and it didn't scare me. I was building web pages when I was in grade school late 90s. I had no idea how to build an iPhone app but I created one, lol.

I want to build a graphics program or even a prototype. Maybe I can pass it over to a expert and hire then to build it. I have a dozen degree and certificates on my wall. And I didn't get that by going basic. Keep your advice Bartc.

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#97353

On 02/10/2015 21:23, Kenneth L wrote:

> And I didn't get that by going basic. Keep your advice Bartc.

OK, I will. Although I'm now curious as to what advice you /do/ want.

-- 
Bartc

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#97380

On 10/02/2015 02:23 PM, Kenneth L wrote:
> No don't tell me what to do. I joined the military 3 years ago. You
> wouldn't believe the stuff I wasn't able to do before but now I am.
> You can keep your advice to yourself. I wasn't asking for something
> simple. I was asking for a starting point. The 3d was to show you
> I've learned hard stuff and it didn't scare me. I was building web
> pages when I was in grade school late 90s. I had no idea how to build
> an iPhone app but I created one, lol.
> 
> I want to build a graphics program or even a prototype. Maybe I can
> pass it over to a expert and hire then to build it. I have a dozen
> degree and certificates on my wall. And I didn't get that by going
> basic. Keep your advice Bartc.

No one is insulting your intelligence, so there's no need to get snippy.
It's easy to take offense in an environment like this as things sound
much harsher in our own heads than they were likely intended.

The reason that you're not getting the responses you want is because
what you are asking for involves so many different things it's hard to
know how to respond. I have no doubt you may be able to do much of what
you want, but it will take a lot of time and a lot of googling of
various things.  Sounds like you need to search for information concerning:
- Python programming in general (tutorials, mini courses, etc)
- GUI programming in Python. There are many options here including
tkinter, PyQt (or PySide), PyGObject (GTK+ 3.x), and also Kivy.
- Vector drawing libraries (PyQt has support, Cairo is another library,
maybe a python-based svg library)
- bitmap graphics engine of some kind, probably GEGL, which has Python
bindings
- linear algebra

I'm sure you can learn all this, but you aren't going to be able to come
here and simply ask about how to put everything together: there's no
turn-key solution we can point you to.  Fire up your browser and start
learning about each of these things.

Take heart, though.  One man created this all by himself using the C#
language:
http://www.getpaint.net/index.html

Tearing down the GIMP is an excellent idea, though that will also be
very daunting.  GIMP is a huge program, written in C. On the subject of
GIMP, I find it interesting you dismissed it out of hand. GIMP is
certainly deficient in many areas, but to say you can't use it because
it's so different from Photoshop strikes me as, well, a cop out.
Photoshop is intuitive because you learned it.  As you are fond of
talking about how much you enjoy learning, so learn how to use the GIMP,
and as Laura said, hack on it using Python to make add-ons.

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#97358

On 10/2/2015 12:41 PM, Kenneth L wrote:
> I'm a graphic designer. I'm new to Python. I know html, css, alittle
> actioscript and little javascript. I actually build an iOS using
> Flash. I understand programming concepts I believe.
>
> I'd like to build a Illustrator/Photoshop like program. Why, there
> are some features that I'd like to personally have. Example,
> randomizing the rotation, line height and sizing of text. You have to
> do this manually. It would be cool have a little program that is
> dedicated building logos. Not trying to reinvent the wheel. Just
> basic featuring of vector graphics program plus my enhancements.
> Maybe this program could be base and it can export vector and bring
> into Photoshop to add finishing touches.
>
> I heard Python is easy to learn. So my question is Python able to do
> this or connect with libraries? Plus where do I start? I watched
> python tutorials but they don't really show you how to build an
> application. How does one build a graphics program? LOL where do you
> start? How do you draw graphics on the screen?

Python comes with the tkinter package, which interfaces to the tcl/tk 
GUI framework.  Tk has a canvas widget that is, I believe, at least 
partly vector-based.  In any case, it can output .ps or .eps postscript 
files* and with an extension# .svg scalable vector graphics files.

* They may or may not be readable by any other particular app.
# I do not know how to install this, but have read that it exists.

To get an intro to using tkinter, I would start with the beginning 
example in the tkinter doc or
http://www.tkdocs.com/  or
http://effbot.org/tkinterbook/

There are other GUI packages you can download and install.  And the 
other suggestions people have given.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy

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