Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.python > #95534 > unrolled thread

Sometimes bottle takes a lot of time

Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.python

Contents

  Sometimes bottle takes a lot of time Cecil Westerhof <Cecil@decebal.nl> - 2015-08-21 23:22 +0200
    Sometimes bottle takes a lot of time gst <g.starck@gmail.com> - 2015-08-21 14:55 -0700
      Re: Sometimes bottle takes a lot of time Cecil Westerhof <Cecil@decebal.nl> - 2015-08-22 13:34 +0200
    Re: Sometimes bottle takes a lot of time Peter Otten <__peter__@web.de> - 2015-08-22 09:49 +0200
      Re: Sometimes bottle takes a lot of time Cecil Westerhof <Cecil@decebal.nl> - 2015-08-22 13:37 +0200
        Re: Sometimes bottle takes a lot of time Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-08-22 09:33 -0600
          Re: Sometimes bottle takes a lot of time Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-08-22 09:13 -0700
          Re: Sometimes bottle takes a lot of time Cecil Westerhof <Cecil@decebal.nl> - 2015-08-22 20:03 +0200
            Re: Sometimes bottle takes a lot of time Cecil Westerhof <Cecil@decebal.nl> - 2015-08-22 23:06 +0200
              Re: Sometimes bottle takes a lot of time Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-08-23 09:13 +1000
                Re: Sometimes bottle takes a lot of time Cecil Westerhof <Cecil@decebal.nl> - 2015-08-23 02:51 +0200
                  Re: Sometimes bottle takes a lot of time Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-08-23 11:05 +1000
                    Re: Sometimes bottle takes a lot of time Cecil Westerhof <Cecil@decebal.nl> - 2015-08-23 14:45 +0200
    Re: Sometimes bottle takes a lot of time Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-08-22 11:41 +0200
      Re: Sometimes bottle takes a lot of time Cecil Westerhof <Cecil@decebal.nl> - 2015-08-22 13:28 +0200
        Re: Sometimes bottle takes a lot of time Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-08-22 14:09 +0200
          Re: Sometimes bottle takes a lot of time Cecil Westerhof <Cecil@decebal.nl> - 2015-08-22 15:09 +0200
            Re: Sometimes bottle takes a lot of time Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-08-22 15:51 +0200
              Re: Sometimes bottle takes a lot of time Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2015-08-22 16:15 +0200
                Re: Sometimes bottle takes a lot of time Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-08-23 16:05 +0200
                  Re: Sometimes bottle takes a lot of time Cecil Westerhof <Cecil@decebal.nl> - 2015-08-23 17:20 +0200
                    Re: Sometimes bottle takes a lot of time MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2015-08-23 16:44 +0100
                      Re: Sometimes bottle takes a lot of time Cecil Westerhof <Cecil@decebal.nl> - 2015-08-23 18:15 +0200
                  Re: Sometimes bottle takes a lot of time Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-08-23 10:47 -0600
                    Re: Sometimes bottle takes a lot of time Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-08-23 22:55 +0200
                      Re: Sometimes bottle takes a lot of time Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2015-08-24 10:01 +1000

Page 2 of 2 — ← Prev page 1 [2]

#95593

On Sunday 23 Aug 2015 16:05 CEST, Johannes Bauer wrote:

> On 22.08.2015 16:15, Christian Gollwitzer wrote:
>
>> Probably yes. You should take a look at the OP again and compare
>> the time stamps. It says that in between two consecutive calls of
>> the same program, the request was served once in a second, and once
>> with serious delays. Despite that the server is localhost. In
>> between both trials there are 20 seconds. I do not see, how git
>> bisect would help here.
>
> I do completely understand that in two consecutive runs one time the
> problem occurs and the other time it doesn't.
>
> It's highly unlikely that such a bug would ever have passed the
> bottle QA and if it did it would affect thousands of users (who
> would report this issue, since it's very severe). It is much more
> likely the bug is somewhere within the OP's program. By git bisect
> he can find out where he introduced the bug.

You have to explain something to me: how can I introduce a bug without
changing anything? Maybe by having wrong thoughts?


>> Note that this says nothing about the location of the bug, in can
>> still be either in the OPs code or in the framework.
>
> Yup. Note that he has now shifted from blaming bottle to blaming
> Firefox. Same thing with that claim. If somehow website delivery was
> delayed 6 seconds reproducibly, people would have noticed.

I never blamed bottle, I was asking if it could be a problem with
bottle.

And it is (now) clear that it has to do something with Firefox. Just
fetching the URL's does not give a problem. Chromium does not have a
problem. Only Firefox has a problem. Even in safemode. And with an
older version of Firefox there is (almost) no problem.


> I suspect that either the OPs program is at fault or the OP's setup
> (name resolution or some other weird stuff going on). But instead of
> tackling this problem systematically, like a Software Engineer would
> (Wireshark, debugger, profiler) he just blames other people's
> software. This, in my humble opinion, is annoying as fuck.

Do you know what I find annoying? That you need to keep bashing me,
instead of thinking: was I maybe wrong in bashing? Especially because
you are the only one that thinks you were right. Being the only one
who thinks something, does not necessarily make you wrong, but should
make you contemplate.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#95594

On 2015-08-23 16:20, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
> On Sunday 23 Aug 2015 16:05 CEST, Johannes Bauer wrote:
>
>> On 22.08.2015 16:15, Christian Gollwitzer wrote:
>>
>>> Probably yes. You should take a look at the OP again and compare
>>> the time stamps. It says that in between two consecutive calls of
>>> the same program, the request was served once in a second, and once
>>> with serious delays. Despite that the server is localhost. In
>>> between both trials there are 20 seconds. I do not see, how git
>>> bisect would help here.
>>
>> I do completely understand that in two consecutive runs one time the
>> problem occurs and the other time it doesn't.
>>
>> It's highly unlikely that such a bug would ever have passed the
>> bottle QA and if it did it would affect thousands of users (who
>> would report this issue, since it's very severe). It is much more
>> likely the bug is somewhere within the OP's program. By git bisect
>> he can find out where he introduced the bug.
>
> You have to explain something to me: how can I introduce a bug without
> changing anything? Maybe by having wrong thoughts?
>
>
>>> Note that this says nothing about the location of the bug, in can
>>> still be either in the OPs code or in the framework.
>>
>> Yup. Note that he has now shifted from blaming bottle to blaming
>> Firefox. Same thing with that claim. If somehow website delivery was
>> delayed 6 seconds reproducibly, people would have noticed.
>
> I never blamed bottle, I was asking if it could be a problem with
> bottle.
>
The subject says otherwise. :-)

[snip]

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#95597

On Sunday 23 Aug 2015 17:44 CEST, MRAB wrote:

>> I never blamed bottle, I was asking if it could be a problem with
>> bottle.
>>
> The subject says otherwise. :-)

Yeah, my communication skills can take some improvement. I meant: I
have this problem. I think it could have to do something with bottle.
Can anybody shed some light on it?

I hope to be more precise next time.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#95598

On 08/23/2015 08:05 AM, Johannes Bauer wrote:
> By git bisect he can find out where
> he introduced the bug.

Like Cecil said, this is of little help.  There was no code changed from
when he didn't notice the behavior until he did.

>> Note that this says nothing about the location of the bug, in can still
>> be either in the OPs code or in the framework.
> 
> Yup. Note that he has now shifted from blaming bottle to blaming
> Firefox. Same thing with that claim. If somehow website delivery was
> delayed 6 seconds reproducibly, people would have noticed.

Well it does look like the problem is indeed inside firefox.  Chrome
does exhibit the problem.  Just fetching the urls in a script does not
have the problem either.  Since this is an ajax thing, I can entirely
understand that Firefox introduces random delays.  Practically all
ajax-heavy sites I've ever used has had random slowdowns in Firefox.

> I suspect that either the OPs program is at fault or the OP's setup
> (name resolution or some other weird stuff going on). 

Name resolution could be an issue, but the script he wrote to simulate
the browser requests does not show the slowdown at all.  Firefox could
be doing name resolution differently than the rest of the system and
Chrome of course, which wouldn't surprise me as Firefox seems to more
and more stupid stuff.

> But instead of
> tackling this problem systematically, like a Software Engineer would
> (Wireshark, debugger, profiler) he just blames other people's software.
> This, in my humble opinion, is annoying

He is tackling the problem systematically, though perhaps not in the
same way you would. Sure there are ways he can improve his process, and
he is doing that slowly.  But your bashing on him is inappropriate and
unhelpful.  And sometimes things that are obvious to you and others
(such as strings being iterable in his sql binding problem) are not
obvious to new users of python, even ones with a lot of experience in
other languages.

What is annoying to me is how you have done nothing but jump all over
him this whole thread, and several other times.  You seem to have made
it your mission to bash him continually on this list, mocking him and
saying if he were a wise Senior Software Engineer he would know such and
such.  In fact I can find very few of your posts to this list where you
aren't bashing Cecil in recent months.  This does not reflect well on
the list community and drives away people who would otherwise want to
learn Python.

If Cecil's posts annoy you, please ignore them (I wouldn't even respond
to this post of yours, but I feel like something has to be said).

I for one am happy to help out, and I'm very glad to see a person come
and learn python and be enthusiastic about it.  Unlike many people
learning Python, Cecil has made a strong attempt to learn the idiomatic
ways of programming in Python, and seems to be really enjoying it.  He
hasn't been turned off by the sometimes toxic atmosphere of the list.
He hasn't run off saying Python sux because of whitespace.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#95599

On 23.08.2015 18:47, Michael Torrie wrote:

> Since this is an ajax thing, I can entirely
> understand that Firefox introduces random delays.  Practically all
> ajax-heavy sites I've ever used has had random slowdowns in Firefox.

This would imply that random six-second delays have somehow passed the
Firefox QA effortlessly. It's something that is entirely possible, but
also something that I would consider magnitudes less likely than other
explanations. Six seconds is *huge* for regular web applications.

> Name resolution could be an issue, but the script he wrote to simulate
> the browser requests does not show the slowdown at all.  Firefox could
> be doing name resolution differently than the rest of the system and
> Chrome of course, which wouldn't surprise me as Firefox seems to more
> and more stupid stuff.

Proxy settings are another thing that could influence behavior. Maybe
the proxy of his Chrome is differently configured than Firefox and this
is causing issues. SOCKS proxies can emulate DNS as well. So there is a
plethora of possible causes; no need to shift blame before evidence is
presented, no need to jump to conclusions.

> But your bashing on him is inappropriate and
> unhelpful.
[...]
> What is annoying to me is how you have done nothing but jump all over
> him this whole thread, and several other times.  
[...]
> In fact I can find very few of your posts to this list where you
> aren't bashing Cecil in recent months.  This does not reflect well on
> the list community and drives away people who would otherwise want to
> learn Python.

I think you're right about this. I've had some run-in with Cecil some
months ago - don't even remember what it was about. The thing I did
remember was that I was particularly annoyed by the whole discussion
back then. This probably led to me being a lot more agressive in my
choice of tone than I should have been.

You're entirely right that this kind of personal feud and immature
mockery is inappropriate for a mailing list and you're also right that
it does create a toxic atmosphere. Since Python is the lanauge I'm most
passionate about a detrimental effect on the Python community is
something that is surely the exact opposite of what I want.

> If Cecil's posts annoy you, please ignore them (I wouldn't even respond
> to this post of yours, but I feel like something has to be said).

I'll follow your advice and thank you for your honest words.

Cheers,
Johannes

-- 
>> Wo hattest Du das Beben nochmal GENAU vorhergesagt?
> Zumindest nicht öffentlich!
Ah, der neueste und bis heute genialste Streich unsere großen
Kosmologen: Die Geheim-Vorhersage.
 - Karl Kaos über Rüdiger Thomas in dsa <hidbv3$om2$1@speranza.aioe.org>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#95603

Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> writes:

> You're entirely right that this kind of personal feud and immature
> mockery is inappropriate for a mailing list and you're also right that
> it does create a toxic atmosphere. Since Python is the lanauge I'm
> most passionate about a detrimental effect on the Python community is
> something that is surely the exact opposite of what I want.
[…]

> I'll follow your advice and thank you for your honest words.

Thank you for publicly acknowledging this, and for taking responsibility
for positive change. This is essential to keeping our community healthy.

-- 
 \            “Technology is neither good nor bad; nor is it neutral.” |
  `\                       —Melvin Kranzberg's First Law of Technology |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]

Page 2 of 2 — ← Prev page 1 [2]

Back to top | Article view | comp.lang.python

csiph-web