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Groups > comp.lang.python > #47866 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2013-06-13 00:13 +0000 |
| Last post | 2013-06-20 19:08 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 90 — 31 participants |
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Re: A few questiosn about encoding Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-13 00:13 +0000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Νικόλαος Κούρας <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-13 09:09 +0300
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-13 07:11 +0000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Νικόλαος Κούρας <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-13 10:42 +0300
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-13 17:58 +1000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Νικόλαος Κούρας <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-13 11:08 +0300
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-13 18:20 +1000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Νικόλαος Κούρας <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-13 12:41 +0300
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-13 11:49 +0000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Νικόλαος Κούρας <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-13 17:19 +0300
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2013-06-14 11:00 +1000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 09:59 +0300
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2013-06-14 20:14 +1000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 16:58 +0300
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-06-14 11:21 -0400
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 18:26 +0300
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 03:03 +1000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> - 2013-06-14 23:32 +0000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2013-06-15 10:26 +1000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 06:34 +0000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-15 14:44 +0000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-15 17:49 +0300
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-15 15:30 +0000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-06-15 10:59 -0400
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-15 18:14 +0300
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 11:35 -0400
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-15 22:26 +0300
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Benjamin Schollnick <benjamin@schollnick.net> - 2013-06-15 16:35 -0400
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2013-06-16 15:45 +0200
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-14 09:36 +0200
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 10:49 +0300
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-14 10:22 +0200
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 11:37 +0300
Don't feed the troll... (was: Re: A few questiosn about encoding) Heiko Wundram <modelnine@modelnine.org> - 2013-06-14 11:06 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 12:32 +0300
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-14 13:09 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 15:36 +0300
Re: Don't feed the troll... Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-06-14 08:44 -0400
Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-14 15:25 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-06-14 15:54 +0000
Re: Don't feed the troll... Heiko Wundram <modelnine@modelnine.org> - 2013-06-14 12:15 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Guy Scree <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2013-06-14 18:50 -0400
Re: Don't feed the troll... Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 06:31 +0000
Re: Don't feed the troll... Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-06-15 13:04 -0400
Re: Don't feed the troll... Guy Scree <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2013-06-17 16:15 -0400
Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-18 07:46 +1000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2013-06-14 20:19 +1000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 15:41 +0300
Re: Don't feed the troll... (was: Re: A few questiosn about encoding) Fábio Santos <fabiosantosart@gmail.com> - 2013-06-14 11:20 +0100
Re: Don't feed the troll... (was: Re: A few questiosn about encoding) rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-14 04:51 -0700
Re: Don't feed the help-vampire rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-14 05:09 -0700
Re: Don't feed the help-vampire Heiko Wundram <modelnine@modelnine.org> - 2013-06-14 14:31 +0200
Re: Don't feed the help-vampire Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-14 10:51 -0600
Re: Don't feed the troll... Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 15:50 +0300
Re: Don't feed the troll... Zero Piraeus <schesis@gmail.com> - 2013-06-14 09:33 -0400
Re: Don't feed the troll... Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 15:45 +0300
Re: Don't feed the troll... Heiko Wundram <modelnine@modelnine.org> - 2013-06-14 14:58 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Fábio Santos <fabiosantosart@gmail.com> - 2013-06-14 14:25 +0100
Re: Don't feed the troll... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-14 17:12 +0100
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-14 12:50 +0200
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 15:59 +0300
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-14 15:52 +0200
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2013-06-15 10:28 +1000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-17 08:49 +0200
Re: Don't feed the troll... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-14 12:57 +0100
Re: Don't feed the troll... (was: Re: A few questiosn about encoding) "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> - 2013-06-14 13:13 -0400
Re: Don't feed the troll... (was: Re: A few questiosn about encoding) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 03:31 +1000
Re: Don't feed the troll... (was: Re: A few questiosn about encoding) Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-14 19:40 +0000
Re: Don't feed the troll "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> - 2013-06-14 13:56 -0400
Re: Don't feed the troll Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2013-06-14 14:00 -0500
Re: Don't feed the troll "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> - 2013-06-14 15:17 -0400
Re: Don't feed the troll... Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-06-15 10:42 +1000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-06-19 18:46 -0700
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-20 06:26 +0000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-06-20 12:43 +0100
Re: A few questiosn about encoding wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-06-20 09:27 -0700
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-21 02:37 +1000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-06-20 18:17 +0100
Re: A few questiosn about encoding wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-06-23 08:51 -0700
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-23 16:30 +0000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-06-25 13:16 -0700
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-21 03:21 +1000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-20 20:43 +0100
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-06-20 06:40 -0700
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Andrew Berg <robotsondrugs@gmail.com> - 2013-06-20 09:04 -0500
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-06-20 08:12 -0700
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-21 01:26 +1000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Jussi Piitulainen <jpiitula@ling.helsinki.fi> - 2013-06-20 20:25 +0300
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-21 01:28 +1000
Re: A few questiosn about encoding Andreas Perstinger <andipersti@gmail.com> - 2013-06-20 19:08 +0200
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| From | Heiko Wundram <modelnine@modelnine.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-14 12:15 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Don't feed the troll... |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3295.1371208883.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #48102 |
Am 14.06.2013 11:32, schrieb Nick the Gr33k: > I'mm not trolling man, i just have hard time understanding why numbers > acts as strings. If you can't grasp the conceptual differences between numbers and their/a representation, it's probably best if you stayed away from programming alltogether. I don't think you're actually as thick as you sound, but rather either you're simply too damn lazy to take the time to inform yourself from all the hints/links/information you've been given, or you're trolling. I'm still leaning towards the second. -- --- Heiko.
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| From | Guy Scree <nobody@nowhere.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-14 18:50 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: Don't feed the troll... |
| Message-ID | <3h7nr890f3nf4eau4cmo29jlq8k6ik8faf@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #48102 |
Your best bet would be to keep an eye on www.edx.org for the next offerring of Introduction to Computer Science and Programming 6.00x (probably starts in Sept). It's a no-cost way to take a Python course. On Fri, 14 Jun 2013 12:32:56 +0300, Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> wrote: >On 14/6/2013 12:06 ??, Heiko Wundram wrote: >> Am 14.06.2013 10:37, schrieb Nick the Gr33k: >>> So everything we see like: >>> >>> 16474 >>> nikos >>> abc123 >>> >>> everything is a string and nothing is a number? not even number 1? >> >> Come on now, this is _so_ obviously trolling, it's not even remotely >> funny anymore. Why doesn't killfiling work with the mailing list version >> of the python list? :-( >> > >I'mm not trolling man, i just have hard time understanding why numbers >acts as strings.
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| From | Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-15 06:31 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Don't feed the troll... |
| Message-ID | <kph1os$su9$5@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #48102 |
On Fri, 14 Jun 2013 12:32:56 +0300, Nick the Gr33k wrote: > I'mm not trolling man, i just have hard time understanding why numbers > acts as strings. It depends on the context. -- Denis McMahon, denismfmcmahon@gmail.com
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| From | Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-15 13:04 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: Don't feed the troll... |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3387.1371315889.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #48254 |
On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 06:31:56 +0000 (UTC), Denis McMahon
<denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> declaimed the following in
gmane.comp.python.general:
> On Fri, 14 Jun 2013 12:32:56 +0300, Nick the Gr33k wrote:
>
> > I'mm not trolling man, i just have hard time understanding why numbers
> > acts as strings.
>
> It depends on the context.
Maybe the OP should give up on Python and switch to Regina/Rexx...
-=-=-=-=-=-
/* */
numint = 123 /* a "number" */
numstr = def /* unknown variable? */
strstr = "abc" /* a string containing alphabetics */
strint = "456" /* a string containing decimal digits */
signal on syntax name next1
say "Adding strstr and numint"
say strstr + numint
next1:
signal on syntax name next2
say "Adding strstr and strint"
say strstr + strint
next2:
signal on syntax name next3
say "Adding numint and strint"
say numint + strint
next3:
signal on syntax name next4
say "Adding numstr and numint"
say numstr + numint
next4:
say "Concatenate numint and strstr"
say numint || strstr
say "Concatenate strint and numint"
say strint || numint
say "Concatenate numstr and strint"
say numstr || strint
say "Concatenate numstr and numint"
say numstr || numint
-=-=-=-=-=-
E:\UserData\Wulfraed\MYDOCU~1>rexx t.rx
Adding strstr and numint
Adding strstr and strint
Adding numint and strint
579
Adding numstr and numint
Concatenate numint and strstr
123abc
Concatenate strint and numint
456123
Concatenate numstr and strint
DEF456
Concatenate numstr and numint
DEF123
E:\UserData\Wulfraed\MYDOCU~1>
{Pity SYNTAX error can't be trapped with a CALL, i'd have been able to
cleanly report results and return to the next statement}
--
Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN
wlfraed@ix.netcom.com HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
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| From | Guy Scree <nobody@nowhere.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-17 16:15 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: Don't feed the troll... |
| Message-ID | <odrur8pub6jh6qpr8737650ouvj2791rke@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #48102 |
I recommend that all participants in this thread, especially Alex and Anton, research the term "Pathological Altruism"
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| From | Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-18 07:46 +1000 |
| Subject | Re: Don't feed the troll... |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3510.1371539769.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #48558 |
On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 6:15 AM, Guy Scree <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote: > I recommend that all participants in this thread, especially Alex and > Anton, research the term "Pathological Altruism" I don't intend to buy a book about it, but based on flipping through a few Google results and snippets, I'm thinking that this is the "Paladin fault" that I know from Dungeons & Dragons. :) ChrisA
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| From | Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-14 20:19 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3289.1371205164.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #48088 |
On 14Jun2013 11:37, Nikos as SuperHost Support <support@superhost.gr> wrote: | On 14/6/2013 11:22 πμ, Antoon Pardon wrote: | | >>Python prints numbers: | >No it doesn't, numbers are abstract concepts that can be represented in | >various notations, these notations are strings. Those notaional strings | >end up being printed. As I said before we are so used in using the | >decimal notation that we often use the notation and the number interchangebly | >without a problem. But when we are working with multiple notations that | >can become confusing and we should be careful to seperate numbers from their | >representaions/notations. | | How do we separate a number then from its represenation-natation? Shrug. When you "print" a number, Python transcribes a string representation of it to your terminal. | What is a notation anywat? is it a way of displayment? but that | would be a represeantion then.... Yep. Same thing. A "notation" is a particulart formal method of representation. | No it doesn't, numbers are abstract concepts that can be represented in | various notations | | >>but when we need a decimal integer | > | >There are no decimal integers. There is only a decimal notation of the number. | >Decimal, octal etc are not characteristics of the numbers themselves. | | So everything we see like: | | 16474 | nikos | abc123 | | everything is a string and nothing is a number? not even number 1? Everything you see like that is textual information. Internally to Python, various types are used: strings, bytes, integers etc. But when you print something, text is output. Cheers, -- Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> A long-forgotten loved one will appear soon. Buy the negatives at any price.
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| From | Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-14 15:41 +0300 |
| Message-ID | <kpf31l$spl$11@news.ntua.gr> |
| In reply to | #48110 |
On 14/6/2013 1:19 μμ, Cameron Simpson wrote: > On 14Jun2013 11:37, Nikos as SuperHost Support <support@superhost.gr> wrote: > | On 14/6/2013 11:22 πμ, Antoon Pardon wrote: > | > | >>Python prints numbers: > | >No it doesn't, numbers are abstract concepts that can be represented in > | >various notations, these notations are strings. Those notaional strings > | >end up being printed. As I said before we are so used in using the > | >decimal notation that we often use the notation and the number interchangebly > | >without a problem. But when we are working with multiple notations that > | >can become confusing and we should be careful to seperate numbers from their > | >representaions/notations. > | > | How do we separate a number then from its represenation-natation? > > Shrug. When you "print" a number, Python transcribes a string > representation of it to your terminal. >>> 16 16 So the output 16 is in fact a string representation of the number 16 ? Then in what 16 and '16; differ to? > > | What is a notation anywat? is it a way of displayment? but that > | would be a represeantion then.... > > Yep. Same thing. A "notation" is a particulart formal method of > representation. Can you elaborate please? > | No it doesn't, numbers are abstract concepts that can be represented in > | various notations > | > | >>but when we need a decimal integer > | > > | >There are no decimal integers. There is only a decimal notation of the number. > | >Decimal, octal etc are not characteristics of the numbers themselves. > | > | So everything we see like: > | > | 16474 > | nikos > | abc123 > | > | everything is a string and nothing is a number? not even number 1? > > Everything you see like that is textual information. Internally to > Python, various types are used: strings, bytes, integers etc. But > when you print something, text is output. > > Cheers, > Thanks! -- What is now proved was at first only imagined!
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| From | Fábio Santos <fabiosantosart@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-14 11:20 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Don't feed the troll... (was: Re: A few questiosn about encoding) |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3290.1371205255.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #48088 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On 14 Jun 2013 10:20, "Heiko Wundram" <modelnine@modelnine.org> wrote: > > Am 14.06.2013 10:37, schrieb Nick the Gr33k: >> >> So everything we see like: >> >> 16474 >> nikos >> abc123 >> >> everything is a string and nothing is a number? not even number 1? > > > Come on now, this is _so_ obviously trolling, it's not even remotely funny anymore. Why doesn't killfiling work with the mailing list version of the python list? :-( I have skimmed the archives for this month, and I estimate that a third of this month's activity on this list was helping this person. About 80% of that is wasted in explaining basic concepts he refuses to read in links given to him. A depressingly large number of replies to his posts are seemingly ignored. Since this is a lot of spam, I feel like leaving the list, but I also honestly want to help people use python and the replies to questions of others often give me much insight on several matters.
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| From | rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-14 04:51 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Don't feed the troll... (was: Re: A few questiosn about encoding) |
| Message-ID | <8c0ca270-1ccc-44c7-a85a-05ebd1ec9b52@v10g2000pbv.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #48111 |
On Jun 14, 3:20 pm, Fábio Santos <fabiosantos...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Come on now, this is _so_ obviously trolling, it's not even remotely > > funny anymore. Why doesn't killfiling work with the mailing list version of > the python list? :-( > > I have skimmed the archives for this month, and I estimate that a third of > this month's activity on this list was helping this person. About 80% of > that is wasted in explaining basic concepts he refuses to read in links > given to him. A depressingly large number of replies to his posts are > seemingly ignored. > > Since this is a lot of spam, I feel like leaving the list, but I also > honestly want to help people use python and the replies to questions of > others often give me much insight on several matters. Adding my +1 to this sentiment. In older saner and more politically incorrect times, when there was a student who was as idiotic as Nikos, he would be made to: -- run five rounds of the field -- stay after school -- write pages of "I shall not talk in class" In the age of cut-n-paste the last has lost its sting. Likewise the first two are hard to administer across the internet. Still if we are genuinely interested in solving this problem, ways may be found, for example: Any question from Nikos that has any English error, should be returned with: Correct your English before we look at your python. If he is brazen enough to correct one error and leave the other 35, then we put in a 24-hour delay for each reply. I am sure others can come up with better solutions if we wish. The alternative is that this disease has an unfavorable prognosis: [Yes Nikos is an infectious disease: I believe I can pull out mails from Steven and Grant Edwards whic hare begng tolook sspcicious ly like Nikos [Sorry Im not much good at imitation!] ] And that unfavorable prognosis is what Fabio is suggesting -- people will start leaving the list/group. Nikos: This is not against you personally. Just your current mode of conduct towards this list. And that mode quite simply is this: You have no interest in python, you are only interested in the immediate questions of your web-hosting.
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| From | rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-14 05:09 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Don't feed the help-vampire |
| Message-ID | <d940c9cd-5bd8-4d4e-b79d-35d0fdee88b6@ow4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #48118 |
On Jun 14, 4:51 pm, rusi <rustompm...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Jun 14, 3:20 pm, Fábio Santos <fabiosantos...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Come on now, this is _so_ obviously trolling, it's not even remotely > > > funny anymore. Why doesn't killfiling work with the mailing list version of > > the python list? :-( > > > I have skimmed the archives for this month, and I estimate that a third of > > this month's activity on this list was helping this person. About 80% of > > that is wasted in explaining basic concepts he refuses to read in links > > given to him. A depressingly large number of replies to his posts are > > seemingly ignored. > > > Since this is a lot of spam, I feel like leaving the list, but I also > > honestly want to help people use python and the replies to questions of > > others often give me much insight on several matters. > > Adding my +1 to this sentiment. Since identifying a disease by the right name is key to finding a cure: Nikos is not trolling or spamming; he is help-vampiring. Lets call it that.
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| From | Heiko Wundram <modelnine@modelnine.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-14 14:31 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Don't feed the help-vampire |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3300.1371213120.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #48125 |
Am 14.06.2013 14:09, schrieb rusi: > Since identifying a disease by the right name is key to finding a > cure: > Nikos is not trolling or spamming; he is help-vampiring. Just to explain the trolling allegation: I'm not talking about him wanting to get his scripts fixed, that's help-vampiring most certainly, and an extreme form of that (thanks btw. for pointing me to that term, whoever did). I was talking about his repeated attempts at "making conversation" by asking questions about encoding, short-circuit evaluation and such which seem like they are relevant for him to solve his problem, but due to his persistence of understanding things in a wrong way/not understanding them at all/repeating the same misunderstandings time after time have drifted off into endless repetitions of the same facts by helpful posters, and have gotten a lot of people seriously annoyed (also, due to other facts such as him changing his NNTP hosts and/or From-addresses which breaks kill-filing). Now, if that latter behaviour isn't trolling, I don't know what is. Simply nobody who takes what he does at least a little bit serious is _as_ thick as he makes himself seem. -- --- Heiko.
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| From | Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-14 10:51 -0600 |
| Subject | Re: Don't feed the help-vampire |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3365.1371288345.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #48125 |
On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 6:09 AM, rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> wrote: > Since identifying a disease by the right name is key to finding a > cure: > Nikos is not trolling or spamming; he is help-vampiring. I think he's a very dedicated troll elaborately disguised as a help vampire. Remember that one of the names he previously used to post to this list was "Ferrous Cranus". http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/ferouscranus.htm
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| From | Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-14 15:50 +0300 |
| Subject | Re: Don't feed the troll... |
| Message-ID | <kpf3it$spl$13@news.ntua.gr> |
| In reply to | #48118 |
On 14/6/2013 2:51 μμ, rusi wrote: > Nikos: > This is not against you personally. Just your current mode of conduct > towards this list. > And that mode quite simply is this: You have no interest in python, > you are only interested in the immediate questions of your web-hosting. If that was True i wouldn't be asking to be given detailed explanations of a solution provided to me, neither would i been asked to understand why the way i tried it is wrong and what was the correct way of writing the code and why. So, if i had no interest of actually learning python i would just cut n' paste provided code without worrying what it actually does, since knowing that came form you would be enough to know that works. -- What is now proved was at first only imagined!
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| From | Zero Piraeus <schesis@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-14 09:33 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: Don't feed the troll... |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3364.1371288344.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #48138 |
: On 14 June 2013 08:50, Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> wrote: > > So, if i had no interest of actually learning python i would just cut n' > paste provided code without worrying what it actually does, since knowing > that came form you would be enough to know that works. Worrying what it actually does is good; an inquiring mind is a prerequisite for becoming a good programmer. Another prerequisite is discipline. That means the discipline to try and work out for yourself what's going on, rather than repeatedly spamming this list with trivial enquiries. It also means the discipline to both read and type carefully: until and unless you learn to take more care in how you express yourself, both in code and in prose, you will be plagued by syntax errors and frustrated responses respectively. I have only skimmed it, but you might find the following tutorial helpful: http://learnpythonthehardway.org/ Many of the early exercises may seem too basic, and you'll be tempted to skip them - given your conduct here, I imagine you'll be *strongly* tempted to skip them. Don't. You need to learn discipline. -[]z.
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| From | Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-14 15:45 +0300 |
| Subject | Re: Don't feed the troll... |
| Message-ID | <kpf38q$spl$12@news.ntua.gr> |
| In reply to | #48111 |
On 14/6/2013 1:20 μμ, Fábio Santos wrote: > > On 14 Jun 2013 10:20, "Heiko Wundram" <modelnine@modelnine.org > <mailto:modelnine@modelnine.org>> wrote: > > > > Am 14.06.2013 10:37, schrieb Nick the Gr33k: > >> > >> So everything we see like: > >> > >> 16474 > >> nikos > >> abc123 > >> > >> everything is a string and nothing is a number? not even number 1? > > > > > > Come on now, this is _so_ obviously trolling, it's not even remotely > funny anymore. Why doesn't killfiling work with the mailing list version > of the python list? :-( > > I have skimmed the archives for this month, and I estimate that a third > of this month's activity on this list was helping this person. About 80% > of that is wasted in explaining basic concepts he refuses to read in > links given to him. A depressingly large number of replies to his posts > are seemingly ignored. > > Since this is a lot of spam, I feel like leaving the list, but I also > honestly want to help people use python and the replies to questions of > others often give me much insight on several matters. > I'am not spamming and as you say i dare to ask what other don't if they don't understand something. I'am not trolling and actually help people with my questions(as you admitted yourself) and you are helping with your replies. we are all benefit out of this. -- What is now proved was at first only imagined!
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| From | Heiko Wundram <modelnine@modelnine.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-14 14:58 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Don't feed the troll... |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3303.1371214692.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #48135 |
Am 14.06.2013 14:45, schrieb Nick the Gr33k: > we are all benefit out of this. Let's nominate you for a nobel prize, saviour of python-list! -- --- Heiko.
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| From | Fábio Santos <fabiosantosart@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-14 14:25 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Don't feed the troll... |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3306.1371216357.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #48135 |
On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 1:58 PM, Heiko Wundram <modelnine@modelnine.org> wrote: > Am 14.06.2013 14:45, schrieb Nick the Gr33k: > >> we are all benefit out of this. > > > Let's nominate you for a nobel prize, saviour of python-list! > I don't want to be saved. I just found out how to mute conversations in gmail. -- Fábio Santos
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| From | Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-14 17:12 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Don't feed the troll... |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3313.1371226330.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #48135 |
On 14/06/2013 13:58, Heiko Wundram wrote: > Am 14.06.2013 14:45, schrieb Nick the Gr33k: >> we are all benefit out of this. > > Let's nominate you for a nobel prize, saviour of python-list! > The Nobel prize is unsuited in a situation like this, maybe the ACM Turing Award? -- "Steve is going for the pink ball - and for those of you who are watching in black and white, the pink is next to the green." Snooker commentator 'Whispering' Ted Lowe. Mark Lawrence
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| From | Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-14 12:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3293.1371207017.3114.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #48088 |
Op 14-06-13 10:37, Nick the Gr33k schreef: > On 14/6/2013 11:22 πμ, Antoon Pardon wrote: > >>> Python prints numbers: >> No it doesn't, numbers are abstract concepts that can be represented in >> various notations, these notations are strings. Those notaional strings >> end up being printed. As I said before we are so used in using the >> decimal notation that we often use the notation and the number >> interchangebly >> without a problem. But when we are working with multiple notations that >> can become confusing and we should be careful to seperate numbers >> from their >> representaions/notations. > > How do we separate a number then from its represenation-natation? What do you mean? Internally there is no representation linked to the number, so there is nothing to be seperated. Only when a number needs to be printed, is a representation for that number built and displayed. > What is a notation anywat? is it a way of displayment? but that would > be a represeantion then.... Yes a notation is a representation. However "represenation" is also a bit of python jargon that has a specific meaning. So in order to not confuse with multiple possible meanings for "representation" I chose to use "notation" >> There are no decimal integers. There is only a decimal notation of >> the number. >> Decimal, octal etc are not characteristics of the numbers themselves. > > > So everything we see like: > > 16474 > nikos > abc123 > > everything is a string and nothing is a number? not even number 1? There is a difference between "everything we see" as you write earlier and just plain "eveything" as you write later. Python works with numbers, but at the moment it has to display such a number it has to produce something that is printable. So it will build a string that can be used as a notation for that number, a numeral. And that is what will be displayed. -- Antoon.
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