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im.py: a python communications tool

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  im.py: a python communications tool Jake D <jhunter.dunefsky@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 17:16 -0700
    Re: im.py: a python communications tool Demian Brecht <demianbrecht@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 17:52 -0700
      Re: im.py: a python communications tool Jake D <jhunter.dunefsky@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 08:35 -0700
    Re: im.py: a python communications tool Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-04-05 21:07 -0400
      Re: im.py: a python communications tool Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 18:13 -0700
      Re: im.py: a python communications tool Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 20:26 -0500
        Re: im.py: a python communications tool Jake D <jhunter.dunefsky@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 07:54 -0700
        Re: im.py: a python communications tool garabik-news-2005-05@kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk - 2013-04-07 08:59 +0000
          Re: im.py: a python communications tool jhunter.dunefsky@gmail.com - 2013-04-07 14:47 -0700
            Re: im.py: a python communications tool Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-07 22:36 +0000
              Re: im.py: a python communications tool Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-08 13:00 +1000
              Re: im.py: a python communications tool Jake D <jhunter.dunefsky@gmail.com> - 2013-04-08 03:48 -0700
              Re: im.py: a python communications tool Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-04-08 16:16 -0700
              Re: im.py: a python communications tool Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2013-04-08 22:05 -0400
              Re: im.py: a python communications tool Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-04-08 20:37 -0700
              Re: im.py: a python communications tool Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2013-04-09 02:04 -0400
              Re: im.py: a python communications tool Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-04-08 23:20 -0700
                Re: im.py: a python communications tool Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-09 06:47 +0000
              Re: im.py: a python communications tool Demian Brecht <demianbrecht@gmail.com> - 2013-04-08 23:42 -0700
              Re: im.py: a python communications tool Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2013-04-09 02:42 -0400
              Re: im.py: a python communications tool Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-09 17:14 +1000
              Re: im.py: a python communications tool Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-04-09 00:20 -0700
                Re: im.py: a python communications tool Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-09 07:38 +0000
                  Re: im.py: a python communications tool Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-04-09 01:02 -0700
                    Re: im.py: a python communications tool Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-09 09:08 +0000
                      Re: im.py: a python communications tool Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-04-09 02:29 -0700
                        Re: im.py: a python communications tool Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-09 13:05 +0000
                  Re: im.py: a python communications tool Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-04-12 12:57 -0700
                    Re: im.py: a python communications tool Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-04-12 20:05 +0000
                      RE: im.py: a python communications tool "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com> - 2013-04-12 21:48 +0000
                  RE: im.py: a python communications tool "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com> - 2013-04-12 19:46 +0000
              Re: im.py: a python communications tool Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-09 17:21 +1000
              Re: im.py: a python communications tool Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-04-09 00:39 -0700
                Re: im.py: a python communications tool Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-09 08:31 +0000
                  Re: im.py: a python communications tool Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-04-09 01:58 -0700
                    Re: im.py: a python communications tool Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-04-09 14:41 +0000
                      Re: im.py: a python communications tool Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-04-09 09:36 -0700
                  Re: im.py: a python communications tool Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-09 19:40 +1000
                    Re: im.py: a python communications tool Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-09 13:03 +0000
                      Re: im.py: a python communications tool Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-09 23:23 +1000
                  Re: im.py: a python communications tool Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-09 19:48 +1000
                    Re: im.py: a python communications tool Jake D <jhunter.dunefsky@gmail.com> - 2013-04-09 04:09 -0700
                  Re: im.py: a python communications tool Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-04-09 02:46 -0700
                Re: im.py: a python communications tool Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-04-09 14:30 +0000
              Re: im.py: a python communications tool Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-04-09 01:15 -0700
                Re: im.py: a python communications tool Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-09 08:45 +0000
                  Re: im.py: a python communications tool Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-04-09 02:00 -0700
                  Re: im.py: a python communications tool Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2013-04-09 05:18 -0400
                  Re: im.py: a python communications tool Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-04-09 02:32 -0700
              Re: im.py: a python communications tool Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-04-09 17:10 +0100

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#43151

On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 7:46 PM, Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 2:40 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 6:58 PM, Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> If you want tin foil hats, though,
>>> you'll have to notice what's right in front of your face -- you
>>> already have voodoo right on your currency that YOU have accepted.
>>> Egyptian pyramids on the U.S. dollar?  All seeing eye?
>>
>> I'm sorry, I'm somewhat lost here. The dollar I have here has a mob of
>> animals on one side and someone's face on the other - no pyramids, no
>> all-seeing-eye.
>
> Please pardon the implicit Americanism, I didn't disclaim my speech
> because I think all G8-20? countries are somewhat accountable for
> basing their currency or referencing their currency upon it (is this
> true from European views?).  In any case, trading with America, they
> entangle themselves with its history -- including the Native American
> near-genocide that happened here and the human rights abuses that
> continue to this day.  Is it not strange that no one notices this
> while the talking heads on TV go on about human rights in some
> far-away land that they hardly know?

Okay. I've read your post. Read it again. Rubbed my eyes in case there
was something in them and gone back for another read. And I can't
conjure any response but this:

Wut?

ChrisA

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#43157

I just put out a new version of im.py on GitHub.  You can find it
here:
https://github.com/jhunter-d/im.py/blob/master/im.py

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#43158

On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 2:40 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 6:58 PM, Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> wrote:
>> If you want tin foil hats, though,
>> you'll have to notice what's right in front of your face -- you
>> already have voodoo right on your currency that YOU have accepted.
>> Egyptian pyramids on the U.S. dollar?  All seeing eye?
>
> I'm sorry, I'm somewhat lost here. The dollar I have here has a mob of
> animals on one side and someone's face on the other - no pyramids, no
> all-seeing-eye.

Please pardon the implicit Americanism, I didn't disclaim my speech
because I think all G8-20? countries are somewhat accountable for
basing their currency or referencing their currency upon it (is this
true from European views?).  In any case, trading with America, they
entangle themselves with its history -- including the Native American
near-genocide that happened here and the human rights abuses that
continue to this day.  Is it not strange that no one notices this
while the talking heads on TV go on about human rights in some
far-away land that they hardly know?

Mark

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#43178

On 2013-04-09, Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Where do YOU come up with the idea that you can't be sued if money
>> didn't change hands? In what jurisdiction is that true? Unless it's
>> true in every jurisdiction that the internet touches, I wouldn't trust
>> it to protect me.
>
> I know, the legal system has us all under their thumbs.  If I hand you
> a rose, will you sue me because it doesn't smell like one?

He might.  To win, he'd first have to show standing: he'd have to
prove that he was harmed (directly or indirectly by your action).

> If no money changed hands?

[As usual: IANAL so consule a real lawyer before giving away roses
that don't smell like roses.]

Doesn't matter.  What matters first is harm.  Once he establishes that
he was harmed because the rose didn't smell, then the question of
responsibility for that harm arises.

Did you intend the harm?  Did you forsee (or should have forseen) the
harm?  Did you warn him about the possibility of harm or take any
other actions to prevent forseeable harm?  

> I don't have to cite anything!  This is argument of the absurd and
> should be inadmissible.

Absurdity has nothing to with it, we're talking about the law. :)

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! But they went to MARS
                                  at               around 1953!!
                              gmail.com            

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#43136

> I'm not a lawyer, and I suspect you're not either.

By the way, here's where part of the problem stems, right here.  This
notion of that you have to be a lawyer -- as if their some other race
or something.  Lawyers are people, that have been trained into a
historical system of conventions.  That doesn't necessarily make them
good counselors, and conversely non-lawyers can be better defenders
than "lawyers".  As long as this (US) is a constitutional republic, it
is of, by and for, the people.  There is legally no grounds to deprive
a citizen of a fair trial even if they don't have lawyer.  The
Establishment has been intimidating people for too long.

I'm just calling it out, so my crowd (can I call it that?) doesn't
give away it's power.

Mark.

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#43140

On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 01:15:04 -0700, Mark Janssen wrote:

>> I'm not a lawyer, and I suspect you're not either.
> 
> By the way, here's where part of the problem stems, right here.  This
> notion of that you have to be a lawyer -- as if their some other race or
> something.

You wouldn't go to a lawyer for advice on the best way to program. You 
wouldn't go to a car mechanic to ask for the best way to set a broken 
leg. You wouldn't go to a professional gardener to ask how to fight a 
land war in Asia.

Sure, Mike the Personal Injury Lawyer happens to also be a hotshot 
programmer with 35 years of experience in C, Fortran, Lisp, Python, Perl, 
Java, Ruby, PHP, Smalltalk and Haskell. Good for him, and if you know 
him, then maybe you would ask him programming questions in preference to 
a lot of programmers. But that's Mike. 99% of lawyers have no idea about 
the difference between a hash table and a linked list, and 30% think that 
cloud computing has something to do with real clouds.

Dave might be an awesome car mechanic who can fix anything with an 
engine, but that doesn't mean he knows shit about what sort of licence 
and warranty disclaimer is best.

It's just damn common sense that, when faced with a legal issue, you ask 
a legal expert, not a programmer or a butcher or a candle-stick maker.

http://demotivationalblog.com/demotivational/2010/03/common-sense.jpg



-- 
Steven

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#43145

>> By the way, here's where part of the problem stems, right here.  This
>> notion of that you have to be a lawyer -- as if their some other race or
>> something.
>
> You wouldn't go to a lawyer for advice on the best way to program. You
> wouldn't go to a car mechanic to ask for the best way to set a broken
> leg. You wouldn't go to a professional gardener to ask how to fight a
> land war in Asia.

Yeah and a programmer wouldn't go to a lawyer to GIVE SOMETHING AWAY
FOR FREE!  I mean I couldn't brainwash this kind of common sense into
a person.

Mark

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#43147

On 04/09/2013 05:00 AM, Mark Janssen wrote:
>>> By the way, here's where part of the problem stems, right here.  This
>>> notion of that you have to be a lawyer -- as if their some other race or
>>> something.
>>
>> You wouldn't go to a lawyer for advice on the best way to program. You
>> wouldn't go to a car mechanic to ask for the best way to set a broken
>> leg. You wouldn't go to a professional gardener to ask how to fight a
>> land war in Asia.
>
> Yeah and a programmer wouldn't go to a lawyer to GIVE SOMETHING AWAY
> FOR FREE!  I mean I couldn't brainwash this kind of common sense into
> a person.
>

And the same thinking would say that there's no need to ever change the 
oil in a car, just add more when the dipstick gets too low.  And no need 
to kill the weeds in a lawn, just keep spreading more grass seed.  And 
no need to call a plumber for a leak, just wrap it in lots of duct tape. 
  And no need for liability insurance for your house, as nobody's gotten 
hurt yet.  And no need to hire a programmer for a payroll program, just 
let Jimmy the receptionist write it in his spare time.

I recently talked to a small business entrepreneur who thought she 
didn't have to charge or file sales tax, because her business was still 
small.  Her accountant told her that was fine.  I told her to ask a lawyer.

Lots of obvious generalizations out there which are wrong, at least some 
of the time.


-- 
DaveA

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#43149

> Lots of obvious generalizations out there which are wrong, at least some of
> the time.

You know, Dave.... funny thing is, right there is one of them.
-- 
MarkJ
Tacoma, Washington

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#43190

On 09/04/2013 08:21, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 5:20 PM, Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 12:14 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 1:37 PM, Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> In the case of free (libre) open source
>>>> software, such a case would have no merit, because such software never
>>>> promises anyone *anything*.
>>>
>>> If that is the case, it's because the software license explicitly says
>>> so - which is the reason for all those uppercase words in those
>>> licenses. Which brings us right back to where we started.
>>
>> It doesn't have to say so, if it's not charging any money -- there's
>> no expectation that you're getting anything at all!   Where does
>> everyone come up with these bullshit ideas?  And them let them stand
>> as de facto law?
>
> Where do YOU come up with the idea that you can't be sued if money
> didn't change hands? In what jurisdiction is that true? Unless it's
> true in every jurisdiction that the internet touches, I wouldn't trust
> it to protect me.
>
> ChrisA
>

The same place that he came up with this thread "Message passing syntax 
for objects" on Python ideas?  What the BDFL thought of it here 
http://code.activestate.com/lists/python-ideas/20043/

-- 
If you're using GoogleCrap™ please read this 
http://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython.

Mark Lawrence

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