Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.python > #107077 > unrolled thread

Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated

Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.python

Contents

  Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-16 14:38 +1000
    Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2016-04-16 08:05 +0100
      Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-04-16 11:06 +0300
        Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 18:32 +1000
          Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-04-16 11:51 +0300
            Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 19:30 +1000
            Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Michael Selik <michael.selik@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 09:34 +0000
            Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-16 22:03 +1000
            Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Stephen Hansen <me+python@ixokai.io> - 2016-04-16 05:32 -0700
            Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 10:53 -0400
              Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-04-16 19:51 +0300
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 12:58 -0400
                  Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-04-16 19:18 +0100
                    Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 14:53 -0400
                    Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated alex wright <wrightalexw@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 15:21 -0400
                    Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-04-16 19:08 -0400
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2016-04-16 13:25 -0400
                  Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-04-16 21:33 +0300
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2016-04-16 12:07 -0700
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-04-17 06:08 +1000
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2016-04-16 16:50 -0500
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 08:15 +1000
                  Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-04-17 01:30 +0300
                    Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 07:38 -0600
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-04-16 19:02 -0400
                  Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-04-17 00:25 +0100
                    Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 09:33 +1000
                      Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-04-17 01:29 +0100
                    Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated alex wright <wrightalexw@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 19:43 -0400
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 09:11 +1000
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 23:19 +0000
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2016-04-16 19:12 -0500
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2016-04-17 01:24 +0100
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2016-04-16 20:30 -0500
                  Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2016-04-17 16:35 +0200
                    Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2016-04-17 13:11 -0500
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-04-16 21:59 -0400
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 20:44 -0700
                  Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 13:49 +1000
                    Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 18:39 -0700
                      Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-18 13:19 +1000
                        Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 20:48 -0700
                        Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated David Palao <dpalao.python@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 13:35 +0200
                  Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-04-17 11:04 +0100
                    Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 21:06 -0700
                      Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-04-18 21:03 +1200
                        Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 04:07 -0700
                  Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-04-17 14:01 +0300
                    Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 21:14 +1000
                      Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-04-17 13:04 +0100
                      Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-04-17 15:10 +0300
                        Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-04-18 08:13 +1000
                    Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-18 11:57 +1000
                      Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-04-18 11:02 +0300
                        Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-04-18 20:43 +1200
                          Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-04-18 12:17 +0300
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated eryk sun <eryksun@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 00:01 -0500
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-04-17 01:10 -0400
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated eryk sun <eryksun@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 03:14 -0500
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-04-17 12:13 -0400
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated eryk sun <eryksun@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 15:24 -0500
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 14:41 -0600
                  Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-04-18 11:56 +1200
                    Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-04-17 20:29 -0400
                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Sivan Greenberg <sivan@vitakka.co> - 2016-04-18 16:35 +0300
                  Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Pete Forman <petef4+usenet@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 22:14 +0100
                    Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 15:29 -0600
                      Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Pete Forman <petef4+usenet@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 23:20 +0100
                      Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-04-19 17:39 +1200
                    Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-04-19 08:58 +1000
                    Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated sohcahtoa82@gmail.com - 2016-04-18 18:19 -0700
                      Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 20:04 -0700
                        Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-04-18 23:29 -0400
                          Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 20:54 -0700
                            Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-04-19 00:11 -0400
                              Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 05:55 -0700
                                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-04-19 10:05 -0400
                                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 00:13 +1000
                        Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Pete Forman <petef4+usenet@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 08:34 +0100
                          Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-04-19 18:04 +1000
                          Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-04-19 11:09 +0300
                            Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 18:17 +1000
                              Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 04:37 -0700
                                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2016-04-19 08:17 -0500
                                  Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 07:10 -0700
                          Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 14:15 +0000
                            Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 07:54 -0700
                              Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-20 01:50 +1000
                                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-20 01:58 +1000
                                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 13:06 -0400
                                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2016-04-19 17:13 +0000
                          Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 00:24 +1000
                        Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-20 02:14 +1000
                          Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 09:46 -0700
                            Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2016-04-19 12:43 -0500
                              Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 11:05 -0700
                            Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-04-19 14:54 -0400
                              Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-20 10:34 +1000
                                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-04-19 22:02 -0400
                              Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-20 11:38 +1000
                                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 12:21 +1000
                                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2016-04-19 23:23 -0400
                                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 13:41 +1000
                                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2016-04-20 02:08 -0400
                                  Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2016-04-20 00:48 -0700
                                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 10:24 +0100
                                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 10:26 +0100
                                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-04-20 07:51 -0400
                              Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 21:04 -0700
                            Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-04-20 06:50 +1000
                            Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 06:59 +1000
                              Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-04-20 00:35 +0300
                                Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-20 11:03 +1000
                                  Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 21:13 -0700
                                    Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-04-20 18:39 +1200
                              Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated sohcahtoa82@gmail.com - 2016-04-19 14:43 -0700
                            Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-04-19 19:20 -0400
                            Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 23:22 +0000
                            Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 09:33 +1000
                            Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2016-04-19 19:02 -0500
                            Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-20 10:32 +1000
                            Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-04-19 21:57 -0400
                    Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2016-04-19 01:49 -0700
                    Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Paul Rudin <paul.nospam@rudin.co.uk> - 2016-04-19 11:49 +0100
                      Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-04-19 14:47 +0300
                        Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 05:06 -0700
                          Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-04-19 15:14 +0300
                        Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-04-19 15:07 +0200
                        Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2016-04-19 08:31 -0500
                        Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 23:41 +1000
                        Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2016-04-19 08:50 -0500
                    Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Alice Bevan–McGregor <alice@gothcandy.com> - 2016-04-19 10:45 -0400
            Falsehoods People Believe about PEP 8 (was: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-04-17 06:21 +1000
            Re: Falsehoods People Believe about PEP 8 (was: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 06:31 +1000
            Re: Falsehoods People Believe about PEP 8 (was: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated) Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-04-16 16:44 -0400
              Re: Falsehoods People Believe about PEP 8 (was: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated) Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2016-04-16 21:22 +0000
                Re: Falsehoods People Believe about PEP 8 (was: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 07:34 +1000
                  Re: Falsehoods People Believe about PEP 8 (was: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated) Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2016-04-16 23:35 +0000
                    Re: Falsehoods People Believe about PEP 8 (was: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated) Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-17 11:48 +1000
                      Re: Falsehoods People Believe about PEP 8 (was: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated) Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2016-04-17 03:52 +0000
              Re: Falsehoods People Believe about PEP 8 (was: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated) Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-04-17 11:38 +1000
            Re: Falsehoods People Believe about PEP 8 (was: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 05:45 +1000

Page 2 of 8 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8  Next page →

#107123

On 2016-04-17 06:08, Ben Finney wrote:
> Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> writes:
> > if we still had 1970's 80 character TTYs that would matter but on
> > my 29" 1920x1080 screen it doesn't.
> 
> Larry, you've been around long enough to know that's not an argument
> against a limited line length for code. It is not about the
> technology of your terminal. It's about the technology of the brain
> reading the text.

But just in case you do want to consider hardware limits, I do some
of my coding on my phone & tablet, both of which are ~80 characters
wide at best (or less if I use the phone in portrait mode).  I also do
some editing/diffing within a cmd.exe window on Windows which is
limited to 80 characters unless you do some hijinks in the settings
to expand it.

-tkc

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#107125

On 17 April 2016 at 07:50, Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> wrote:

> On 2016-04-17 06:08, Ben Finney wrote:
> > Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> writes:
> > > if we still had 1970's 80 character TTYs that would matter but on
> > > my 29" 1920x1080 screen it doesn't.
> >
> > Larry, you've been around long enough to know that's not an argument
> > against a limited line length for code. It is not about the
> > technology of your terminal. It's about the technology of the brain
> > reading the text.
>
> But just in case you do want to consider hardware limits, I do some
> of my coding on my phone & tablet, both of which are ~80 characters
> wide at best (or less if I use the phone in portrait mode).  I also do
> some editing/diffing within a cmd.exe window on Windows which is
> limited to 80 characters unless you do some hijinks in the settings
> to expand it.
>

Personally, I've given up on 80 characters (or even 120 in rare cases) for
Java code (esp method declarations), where just specifying the generics can
often take almost that much.

But for Python code it's generally fairly easy to break a line in a natural
place.

Tim Delaney

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#107127

Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com>:

> Personally, I've given up on 80 characters (or even 120 in rare cases)
> for Java code (esp method declarations), where just specifying the
> generics can often take almost that much.

Java generics ruined a perfectly good language. I mean:

    Map<AccountManager, List<Customer>> customersOfAccountManager =
        new HashMap<AccountManagerImpl, LinkedList<CustomerImpl>>();

where classic Java would have:

    Map customersOfAccountManager = new HashMap();

and Python simply:

    customers_of_account_manager = {}

However, even during my Java years, I didn't give up on the 79-character
religion (see above).


Marko

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#107176

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 4:30 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> wrote:
>
> Java generics ruined a perfectly good language. I mean:
>
>     Map<AccountManager, List<Customer>> customersOfAccountManager =
>         new HashMap<AccountManagerImpl, LinkedList<CustomerImpl>>();
>
> where classic Java would have:
>
>     Map customersOfAccountManager = new HashMap();

The diamond operator in JDK 7 makes this a lot more tolerable, IMO:

    Map<AccountManager, List<Customer>> customersOfAccountManager =
        new HashMap<>();

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#107132

On Sat, 16 Apr 2016 12:58:54 -0400, Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com>
declaimed the following:

>On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> wrote:
>> Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> I have worked for many companies where you are required to get a clean
>>> run of pep8 on your code before your pull request will even be
>>> considered for approval. I don't agree with this at all, as I think it
>>> makes the code very ugly, especially enforcing the max line length.
>>
>> Agh, I was with you until your last remark.
>>
>> A max line length of 79 characters is among the *only* rigorous
>> principles I judge coding style on.
>>
>> It comes with the maxim that one function must be visible at once on the
>> screen.
>
>if we still had 1970's 80 character TTYs that would matter but on my
>29" 1920x1080 screen it doesn't.

	Not everyone runs full-screen windows... The largest window I currently
have open is the bloody browser (mainly because way too many web sites seem
to assume a minimum witdth of 1280+ pixels). My email and Usenet clients
are all just over 1/4 of screen estate (a 1920x1200 -- yes, 10x16, not 9x16
-- 24" monitor). That lets me see my 7 desktop icons and the "fuel
gauge/tachometer" (memory/CPU) usage display.

	I still miss the Amiga -- in which one could /push/ a window to the
back of the stack while still retaining input focus! Made it nice for
transcribing stuff from a visible window to a text input region while it
was obscured.
-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
    wlfraed@ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#107136

Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> writes:
<snip>
> 	I still miss the Amiga -- in which one could /push/ a window to the
> back of the stack while still retaining input focus! Made it nice for
> transcribing stuff from a visible window to a text input region while it
> was obscured.

That was commonly available on Unix window managers and is still around.
I use it on even an up-to-date Linux/Gnome3 system (you set focus
follows mouse rather than focus on click).

-- 
Ben.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#107137

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 9:25 AM, Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> wrote:
> Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> writes:
> <snip>
>>       I still miss the Amiga -- in which one could /push/ a window to the
>> back of the stack while still retaining input focus! Made it nice for
>> transcribing stuff from a visible window to a text input region while it
>> was obscured.
>
> That was commonly available on Unix window managers and is still around.
> I use it on even an up-to-date Linux/Gnome3 system (you set focus
> follows mouse rather than focus on click).

Focus follows mouse is annoying for other reasons though.

ChrisA

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#107144

Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> writes:

> On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 9:25 AM, Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> wrote:
>> Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>> <snip>
>>>       I still miss the Amiga -- in which one could /push/ a window to the
>>> back of the stack while still retaining input focus! Made it nice for
>>> transcribing stuff from a visible window to a text input region while it
>>> was obscured.
>>
>> That was commonly available on Unix window managers and is still around.
>> I use it on even an up-to-date Linux/Gnome3 system (you set focus
>> follows mouse rather than focus on click).
>
> Focus follows mouse is annoying for other reasons though.

Sure.  But if you want it only sometimes you can bind a key to turn it
on or off so you can have it only momentarily.

The other way is to bind a key (if not already bound) to the "lower
winder" action.  That won't (or shouldn't) alter the focus and will push
the window under the one you want to see.

-- 
Ben.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#107139

The 80 column limit probably helps protect us from the singularity.  Once
the robots take over we will have code with a digestible amount of logic
per line and can fix what we have caused.  In other words, Java is only
armoring the robots against us for the inevitable battle.

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 7:33 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 9:25 AM, Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
> wrote:
> > Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> writes:
> > <snip>
> >>       I still miss the Amiga -- in which one could /push/ a window to
> the
> >> back of the stack while still retaining input focus! Made it nice for
> >> transcribing stuff from a visible window to a text input region while it
> >> was obscured.
> >
> > That was commonly available on Unix window managers and is still around.
> > I use it on even an up-to-date Linux/Gnome3 system (you set focus
> > follows mouse rather than focus on click).
>
> Focus follows mouse is annoying for other reasons though.
>
> ChrisA
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
"On two occasions I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the
machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able
rightly
to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a
question."

-Charles Babbage, 19th century English mathematician, philosopher, inventor
and mechanical engineer who originated the concept of a programmable
computer.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#107134

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 9:02 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber
<wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>         I still miss the Amiga -- in which one could /push/ a window to the
> back of the stack while still retaining input focus! Made it nice for
> transcribing stuff from a visible window to a text input region while it
> was obscured.

OS/2 could do the same thing. I've tried to mess with it in various
Linux desktops, but haven't really found what I want.

ChrisA

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#107135

On 2016-04-16, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> I still miss the Amiga -- in which one could /push/ a window to the
> back of the stack while still retaining input focus! Made it nice for
> transcribing stuff from a visible window to a text input region while it
> was obscured.

I do that all the time on Linux. What sort of brain-dead window
manager doesn't allow that?

-- 
Grant

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#107141

On 2016-04-16 19:02, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> 	I still miss the Amiga -- in which one could /push/ a
> window to the back of the stack while still retaining input focus!
> Made it nice for transcribing stuff from a visible window to a text
> input region while it was obscured.

What OS (or if X-based, which window-manager) do you use?  I have

  Mod4 Next :LowerLayer
  Mod4 Prior :RaiseLayer

in my ~/.fluxbox/keys configuration which lets me use the logo key
with pageup/pagedown to raise/lower the focus of the current window.
I find that most of the time I want to raise one particular window
above all other windows (most of the time I end up closing it when
done, but sometimes I want to lower it back down to the main
application layer).

-tkc

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#107143

On 2016-04-17 00:11, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 9:02 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber
> <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>         I still miss the Amiga -- in which one could /push/ a window to the
>> back of the stack while still retaining input focus! Made it nice for
>> transcribing stuff from a visible window to a text input region while it
>> was obscured.
>
> OS/2 could do the same thing. I've tried to mess with it in various
> Linux desktops, but haven't really found what I want.
>
You could also do that on Acorn's RISC OS.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#107149

On 2016-04-16 19:39, eryk sun wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Tim Chase wrote:
> > I also do some editing/diffing within a cmd.exe window on Windows
> > which is limited to 80 characters unless you do some hijinks in
> > the settings to expand it.
> 
> Try `mode con cols=120 lines=30`.

Yeah, that will do it, as will going into the settings and changing
it. But basically every other program on Windows, and every console
on Linux/BSD/Mac will let me resize a terminal running while another
program is running.  For a cmd.exe window, I have to quit, issue the
`mode` command, restart my application, and return to where I was.

-tkc

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#107177

Op Sat, 16 Apr 2016 20:30:52 -0500 schreef Tim Chase:

> On 2016-04-16 19:39, eryk sun wrote:
>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Tim Chase wrote:
>>> I also do some editing/diffing within a cmd.exe window on Windows
>>> which is limited to 80 characters unless you do some hijinks in
>>> the settings to expand it.
>> 
>> Try `mode con cols=120 lines=30`.
> 
> Yeah, that will do it, as will going into the settings and changing
> it. But basically every other program on Windows, and every console
> on Linux/BSD/Mac will let me resize a terminal running while another
> program is running.  For a cmd.exe window, I have to quit, issue the
> `mode` command, restart my application, and return to where I was.
> 
> -tkc

No need to close. Right-click on statusbar and set properties.

groet Coos

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#107190

On 2016-04-17 16:35, Coos Haak wrote:
> Op Sat, 16 Apr 2016 20:30:52 -0500 schreef Tim Chase:
> >> Try `mode con cols=120 lines=30`.
> > 
> > Yeah, that will do it, as will going into the settings and
> > changing it. But basically every other program on Windows, and
> > every console on Linux/BSD/Mac will let me resize a terminal
> > running while another program is running.  For a cmd.exe window,
> > I have to quit, issue the `mode` command, restart my application,
> > and return to where I was.
> 
> No need to close. Right-click on statusbar and set properties.

By "close", I meant "close the application running within the cmd.exe
window" rather than "close the cmd.exe window".

In most *nix programs, they understand the SIGWINCH (window-size
changed) signal and respond accordingly.  In the Win32 world, it was
pretty fixed in size, so most terminal programs don't readily
accommodate changed size while they're running.  So as Eryk Sun
mentions, the program has to jump through hoops to run "mode" in a
subprocess to change the terminal size, or use
GetConsoleScreenBufferInfoEx/SetConsoleScreenBufferInfoEx or other
such mechanisms.

It's not that it *can't* be done, it's just done in an *inconvenient*
way (if done at all).

-tkc

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#107152

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016, at 21:30, Tim Chase wrote:
> On 2016-04-16 19:39, eryk sun wrote:
> > On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Tim Chase wrote:
> > > I also do some editing/diffing within a cmd.exe window on Windows
> > > which is limited to 80 characters unless you do some hijinks in
> > > the settings to expand it.
> > 
> > Try `mode con cols=120 lines=30`.
> 
> Yeah, that will do it, as will going into the settings and changing
> it. But basically every other program on Windows, and every console
> on Linux/BSD/Mac will let me resize a terminal running while another
> program is running.  For a cmd.exe window, I have to quit, issue the
> `mode` command, restart my application, and return to where I was.

Well, if your interactive application allows you to run commands within
it, you don't have to quit. Plus you can always go into the settings
window, I don't know what's "hijinks" about that.

I heard Windows 10 is going to finally fix this, anyway.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#107154

On Saturday, April 16, 2016 at 10:22:10 PM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Larry Martell :
> 
> > I have worked for many companies where you are required to get a clean
> > run of pep8 on your code before your pull request will even be
> > considered for approval. I don't agree with this at all, as I think it
> > makes the code very ugly, especially enforcing the max line length.
> 
> Agh, I was with you until your last remark.


Count me in the "80-chars is ante-deluvian gunk" camp

> 
> A max line length of 79 characters is among the *only* rigorous
> principles I judge coding style on.
> 
> It comes with the maxim that one function must be visible at once on the
> screen.

Thats a strange self-contradiction.  I wrote this:
 http://blog.languager.org/2012/10/layout-imperative-in-functional.html
to make the case against PEP8 style line length strictures.
Which has the SAME code formatted in two styles:

--  < 80 cols, 48 lines
--  115 cols 37 lines

Clearly the 115 cols is MORE fittable in a page than the 80 cols
[Though my argument for that is based on other structural/semantic principles]

Should mention an irony here though:
When I first wrote it, the examples were inline and blogger was breaking the lines randomly completely invalidating my point.
IIRC blogger was breaking at 68 cols -- invalidating the 80 cols from the other side.
Clearly 80 cols is more portable than longer.
However if we literally implement the view that different people use different
technologies -- AND WE SHOULD SUPPORT THEM ALL -- then notepad becomes the
ineluctable gold standard.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#107155

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 1:44 PM, Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thats a strange self-contradiction.  I wrote this:
>  http://blog.languager.org/2012/10/layout-imperative-in-functional.html
> to make the case against PEP8 style line length strictures.
> Which has the SAME code formatted in two styles:
>
> --  < 80 cols, 48 lines
> --  115 cols 37 lines
>
> Clearly the 115 cols is MORE fittable in a page than the 80 cols
> [Though my argument for that is based on other structural/semantic principles]

There are certain specific situations where 80 (79) is the correct
width to aim for, but even if you aren't going for that, there's still
the general principle that longer lines are harder to read. So maybe
you declare that your codebase is allowed to go to 100, or 120, but
you don't want to let it run to 2048. No matter WHAT screen you're on,
that's too wide!

ChrisA

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#107218

On Sunday, April 17, 2016 at 9:19:48 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 1:44 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:
> > Thats a strange self-contradiction.  I wrote this:
> >  http://blog.languager.org/2012/10/layout-imperative-in-functional.html
> > to make the case against PEP8 style line length strictures.
> > Which has the SAME code formatted in two styles:
> >
> > --  < 80 cols, 48 lines
> > --  115 cols 37 lines
> >
> > Clearly the 115 cols is MORE fittable in a page than the 80 cols
> > [Though my argument for that is based on other structural/semantic principles]
> 
> There are certain specific situations where 80 (79) is the correct
> width to aim for, but even if you aren't going for that, there's still
> the general principle that longer lines are harder to read. So maybe
> you declare that your codebase is allowed to go to 100, or 120, but
> you don't want to let it run to 2048. No matter WHAT screen you're on,
> that's too wide!

yes we can agree on this -- arbitrary line lengths are almost certainly
unreadable.
The problem then becomes so what is optimal?
Interesting question... and one that certainly has no bearing on the characteristics.
of 30 year old technology.
Remember that the most important characteristics of code are almost always 
un-legislatable
eg choose 'nice' names.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 2 of 8 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | comp.lang.python

csiph-web