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Managing Google Groups headaches

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  Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-11-28 05:52 -0800
    Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-29 00:58 +1100
      Re: Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-11-28 06:17 -0800
        Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-29 01:25 +1100
          Re: Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-11-28 07:04 -0800
            Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-29 02:08 +1100
              Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-28 15:50 +0000
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-11-28 08:22 -0800
                  Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-28 16:33 +0000
              Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-28 15:49 +0000
              Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-28 15:49 +0000
              Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-28 15:50 +0000
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-11-28 11:43 -0500
                  Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-29 04:29 +1100
                  Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-12-02 13:03 +0000
                    Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-12-02 08:29 -0500
                      Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-12-02 14:04 +0000
                        Re: Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-02 09:11 -0800
                          Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-02 17:48 +0000
                          Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-03 04:54 +1100
                          Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-02 18:07 +0000
                      Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-12-02 19:56 -0500
                  Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-12-02 19:54 -0500
                  Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-12-02 18:17 -0700
                    Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-12-02 20:43 -0500
                      Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-02 18:27 -0800
                      Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-12-02 20:09 -0700
                        Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-02 19:26 -0800
                    Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-12-03 04:27 +0000
                      Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-03 18:01 +1100
                    Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-12-03 16:30 +1000
                      Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-12-03 07:13 +0000
                        Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-12-04 10:23 +1000
                          Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-12-04 14:34 +0000
                          Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-04 15:21 +0000
                  Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-03 12:09 +0000
            Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-11-28 08:40 -0700
            Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Travis Griggs <travisgriggs@gmail.com> - 2013-11-28 08:23 -0800
            Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-11-28 12:23 -0500
            Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-11-28 11:29 -0700
              Re: Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-11-28 10:37 -0800
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-11-28 11:00 -0800
                  Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-11-28 12:55 -0700
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> - 2013-11-28 19:40 +0000
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-11-28 11:50 -0700
                  Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Arif Khokar <akhokar1234@wvu.edu> - 2013-11-28 19:46 -0500
                    Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-29 14:41 +0000
                    Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-11-29 16:17 +0000
                    Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2013-12-04 11:38 +1100
                      Re: Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-03 17:39 -0800
                        Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-04 13:03 +1100
                        Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2013-12-05 09:47 +1100
                          Re: Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-05 23:42 -0800
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> - 2013-11-28 20:39 +0000
            Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-11-28 16:41 -0500
              Re: Managing Google Groups headaches pecore@pascolo.net - 2013-11-30 14:25 +0100
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2013-12-04 11:40 +1100
                  Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-12-04 15:50 +0000
                    Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-04 16:07 +0000
                    Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-12-04 11:21 -0500
                    Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-04 16:33 +0000
            Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Zero Piraeus <z@etiol.net> - 2013-11-28 13:29 -0300
              Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-11-29 16:15 +0000
            Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-11-28 17:32 -0500
            Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-11-28 17:44 -0500
            Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-29 14:39 +0000
    Re: Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-11-28 10:13 -0800
      Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Rich Kulawiec <rsk@gsp.org> - 2013-12-04 09:52 -0500
        Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-12-04 19:58 -0500
          Re: Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-05 23:13 -0800
            Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-12-06 02:36 -0500
              Re: Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-06 05:03 -0800
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-07 00:19 +1100
                  Re: Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-06 05:32 -0800
                    Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-07 00:48 +1100
                      Re: Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-06 06:11 -0800
                        Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-07 01:51 +1100
                ASCII and Unicode [was Re: Managing Google Groups headaches] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-12-06 19:00 +0000
                  Re: ASCII and Unicode [was Re: Managing Google Groups headaches] Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2013-12-06 14:34 -0500
                  Re: ASCII and Unicode [was Re: Managing Google Groups headaches] Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-12-06 20:54 +0000
                  Re: ASCII and Unicode [was Re: Managing Google Groups headaches] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-07 10:42 +1100
                  Re: ASCII and Unicode [was Re: Managing Google Groups headaches] rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-06 18:33 -0800
                    Re: ASCII and Unicode [was Re: Managing Google Groups headaches] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-07 13:41 +1100
                      Re: ASCII and Unicode [was Re: Managing Google Groups headaches] rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-06 19:16 -0800
                        Re: ASCII and Unicode [was Re: Managing Google Groups headaches] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-07 15:08 +1100
                    Re: ASCII and Unicode [was Re: Managing Google Groups headaches] MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-12-07 03:19 +0000
                  Re: ASCII and Unicode giacomo boffi <pecore@pascolo.net> - 2013-12-07 17:05 +0100
                    Re: ASCII and Unicode rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-08 08:41 -0800
                    Re: ASCII and Unicode Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-12-08 17:22 +0000
                      Re: ASCII and Unicode rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-08 09:39 -0800
                      Re: ASCII and Unicode giacomo boffi <pecore@pascolo.net> - 2013-12-08 21:11 +0100
                        Re: ASCII and Unicode rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-08 19:02 -0800
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2013-12-07 12:27 +1300
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-12-06 21:24 -0500
                  Re: Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-06 23:43 -0800
                    Re: Managing Google Groups headaches wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-12-07 02:16 -0800
                      Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-12-07 11:25 +0000
                        Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-07 22:49 +1100
                      Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-12-07 11:08 -0500
                        Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Rotwang <sg552@hotmail.co.uk> - 2013-12-07 16:15 +0000
                        Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2013-12-07 10:19 -0600
                      Re: Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-07 08:27 -0800
                        Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-12-07 12:04 -0500
            Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-12-07 03:07 +0000
              Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-12-06 22:40 -0500
      Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-05 02:46 +1100
      Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Travis Griggs <travisgriggs@gmail.com> - 2013-12-04 08:31 -0800

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#60880

On 02/12/2013 17:54, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 4:48 AM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> ¿As this is an international group why not ¡MEAN!? :)
>
> ¿Does punctuation nest to any level when you ask, ¿Shouldn't it be ¡MEAN!??
>
> ChrisA
>

Yes.

-- 
Python is the second best programming language in the world.
But the best has yet to be invented.  Christian Tismer

Mark Lawrence

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#60902

On Mon, 2 Dec 2013 14:04:33 +0000 (UTC), Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu>
declaimed the following:

>
>It's probably hard to even visualize.

	Easy: Google wants to be the Amazon of text communications (beyond the
insignificant 140 character Twitter)
-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
    wlfraed@ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

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#60901

On Mon, 2 Dec 2013 13:03:52 +0000 (UTC), Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu>
declaimed the following:

>I wish they'd never bought dejanews.

	Me too... though that set is why I still have a tendency to put an
X-NoArchive header in things...
-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
    wlfraed@ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

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#60904 — Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches

On 12/02/2013 06:03 AM, Neil Cerutti wrote:
> I wish they'd never bought dejanews.

I wish Google hadn't bought a lot of things.  Seems like they bye up a
lot of cool, nerd-centric apps and companies and then turned them into
apps that do less and do it poorly, but in a slick way that appeals to
the unwashed masses.  And add "social" to it.  Great for their bottom
line, but horrible for those of us that actually use things as tools.

Besides the dejanews thing, another one is Google Voice.  Used to be a
great tool but now they are trying to integrate it with Google Hangouts,
reduce its functionality, reduce interoperability, and otherwise ruin
it.  I fear next year is the last year for Google Voice in any usable
form for me.  Might just have to bite the bullet and set up my own PBX
and pay for a voip provider and port my google voice number over to it.
 I'd hate to lose the number; I've used it since Grand Central times.

And Gmail is also becoming less useful to me.  I don't want to use
hangouts; xmpp and google talk worked just fine.  But alas that's
disappearing.

And the list goes on.

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#60908 — Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches

In article <mailman.3495.1386033531.18130.python-list@python.org>,
 Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> wrote:

> I wish Google hadn't bought a lot of things.  Seems like they bye up a
> lot of cool, nerd-centric apps and companies and then turned them into
> apps that do less and do it poorly, but in a slick way that appeals to
> the unwashed masses.  And add "social" to it.  Great for their bottom
> line, but horrible for those of us that actually use things as tools.

And this is surprising, why?

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#60909 — Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches

On Tuesday, December 3, 2013 7:13:03 AM UTC+5:30, Roy Smith wrote:
>  Michael Torrie  wrote:
> > I wish Google hadn't bought a lot of things.  Seems like they bye up a
> > lot of cool, nerd-centric apps and companies and then turned them into
> > apps that do less and do it poorly, but in a slick way that appeals to
> > the unwashed masses.  And add "social" to it.  Great for their bottom
> > line, but horrible for those of us that actually use things as tools.
> And this is surprising, why?

Something floating around here (was it Ben Finney's footer??) went
something like: 

We must expect it; else we would be surprised

Put differently: One evidence of being awake (and not in dreamland) is 
surprise

A directly related piece by Nicholas Carr
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/07/is-google-making-us-stupid/306868/

Relevant at a deeper level is his "IT doesn't matter"
http://www.roughtype.com/?p=644

We software professionals cannot agree with this and keep our self-respect/sanity/identity. However its true; so denial remains the
only option.

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#60911 — Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches

On 12/02/2013 06:43 PM, Roy Smith wrote:
> In article <mailman.3495.1386033531.18130.python-list@python.org>,
>  Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> I wish Google hadn't bought a lot of things.  Seems like they bye up a
>> lot of cool, nerd-centric apps and companies and then turned them into
>> apps that do less and do it poorly, but in a slick way that appeals to
>> the unwashed masses.  And add "social" to it.  Great for their bottom
>> line, but horrible for those of us that actually use things as tools.
> 
> And this is surprising, why?

Well back when Google was a young hip company they billed themselves as
a bunch of nerds making stuff for nerds.  But yes we should have seen
this coming.

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#60913 — Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches

On Tuesday, December 3, 2013 8:39:02 AM UTC+5:30, Michael Torrie wrote:
> On 12/02/2013 06:43 PM, Roy Smith wrote:
> > And this is surprising, why?
>
> Well back when Google was a young hip company they billed themselves as
> a bunch of nerds making stuff for nerds.  But yes we should have seen
> this coming.

So were Bill Gates and Jobs -- nerdy youths.
We tend to not think them so because they are an earlier generation.

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#60915 — Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches

On 2013-12-03, Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 12/02/2013 06:03 AM, Neil Cerutti wrote:
>> I wish they'd never bought dejanews.
>
> I wish Google hadn't bought a lot of things.  Seems like they bye up a
> lot of cool, nerd-centric apps and companies and then turned them into
> apps that do less and do it poorly,

Or they just shut them down.  I still wish SageTv was in business. My
SageTv stuff is still running fine, but I don't know what I'm going to
do when it dies.  I guess I'll have to go back to Mytv and the
associated huge, loud, noisy front-end boxes.

That said, I'm still pretty happy with Gmail (I use it mostly via
mutt/IMAP rather than the WebUI), and it sure beats the e-mail service
I paid for in the past [it's certainly _way_ better than the Outlook
server they run at work].  The Google search engine still works fine
for me, and my Nexus Galaxy phone has been great.

-- 
Grant

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#60922 — Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches

On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> That said, I'm still pretty happy with Gmail (I use it mostly via
> mutt/IMAP rather than the WebUI), and it sure beats the e-mail service
> I paid for in the past [it's certainly _way_ better than the Outlook
> server they run at work].  The Google search engine still works fine
> for me, and my Nexus Galaxy phone has been great.

Things Google does well are those that take advantage of the corpus of
searchable data - like Translate. I wouldn't bother with any other
online translation tool than Google Translate.

ChrisA

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#60920 — Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches

On 3/12/2013 11:17 AM, Michael Torrie wrote:
> And Gmail is also becoming less useful to me.  I don't want to use
> hangouts; xmpp and google talk worked just fine.  But alas that's
> disappearing.

I really hate Hangouts. If I wanted to use Skype I would be using Skype.

I'm also still unable to understand why Google scrapped Reader and kept 
Groups, although I suspect it's because the latter will eventually 
integrate more closely with Plus & Hangouts.

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#60921 — Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches

On Tue, 03 Dec 2013 16:30:05 +1000, alex23 wrote:

> On 3/12/2013 11:17 AM, Michael Torrie wrote:
>> And Gmail is also becoming less useful to me.  I don't want to use
>> hangouts; xmpp and google talk worked just fine.  But alas that's
>> disappearing.
> 
> I really hate Hangouts. If I wanted to use Skype I would be using Skype.
> 
> I'm also still unable to understand why Google scrapped Reader and kept
> Groups, although I suspect it's because the latter will eventually
> integrate more closely with Plus & Hangouts.


Not aimed specifically at either Michael or Alex, but a general 
observation aimed at you all.

You poor fools you, this is what happens when you give control of the 
tools you use to a (near) monopolist whose incentives are not your 
incentives.

I mean, Microsoft was bad enough, but they could never reach through the 
aether into your computer and remove software they no longer wanted you 
to use. The worst that could happen was that they would stop supporting 
it and you'd be stuck with old obsolete hardware running old obsolete 
software that nevertheless did exactly what you want. Google, on the 
other hand, can and will take away software that you use.


-- 
Steven

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#60977 — Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches

On 3/12/2013 5:13 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> You poor fools you, this is what happens when you give control of the
> tools you use to a (near) monopolist whose incentives are not your
> incentives.

To paraphrase Franklin: those who would give up control to purchase 
convenience deserve neither. A lesson hard learned :(

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#61022 — Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches

On 2013-12-04, alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 3/12/2013 5:13 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> You poor fools you, this is what happens when you give control
>> of the tools you use to a (near) monopolist whose incentives
>> are not your incentives.
>
> To paraphrase Franklin: those who would give up control to
> purchase convenience deserve neither. A lesson hard learned :(

But Franklin's quote doesn't apply when free alternatives exist.
I can use a non-open email system until I don't want to any more,
and switch out when it no longer please me.

The cost of switching isn't zero, but it's much easier than
emmigrating from a police state.

Moreover, I'll always feel that I deserve more than I actually
do deserve.

-- 
Neil Cerutti

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#61025 — Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches

On 04/12/2013 14:34, Neil Cerutti wrote:
> On 2013-12-04, alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 3/12/2013 5:13 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>> You poor fools you, this is what happens when you give control
>>> of the tools you use to a (near) monopolist whose incentives
>>> are not your incentives.
>>
>> To paraphrase Franklin: those who would give up control to
>> purchase convenience deserve neither. A lesson hard learned :(
>
> But Franklin's quote doesn't apply when free alternatives exist.

Free at the point of delivery, someone, somewhere, has given blood, 
toil, tears and sweat.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask 
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence

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#60926 — Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches

On 03/12/2013 01:17, Michael Torrie wrote:
>
> And the list goes on.
>

The love of money...

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask 
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence

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#60695

On 11/28/2013 08:08 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> Which is easier, fiddling around with your setup so you can post
> reasonably on Google Groups, or just getting a better client? With
> your setup, you have to drop out to another editor and press F9 for it
> to work. With pretty much any other newsreader on the planet, this
> works straight off, no setup necessary.
> 
> I'm still going to advise people to stop using buggy rubbish.

My opinion is that the Python list should dump the Usenet tie-in and
just go straight e-mail.  Python is the only list I'm on that has a
usenet gateway.

I used to love usenet back in the day, but in the present internet
climate makes it unworkable, though I concede that e-mail is reaching
the end of its usefulness as well.

I wouldn't oppose a dual e-mail list and web-based forum system,
provided the forum system supported threaded conversations in a clean
and useful way (maybe like google wave used to).

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#60704

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 28, 2013, at 7:40, Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 11/28/2013 08:08 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> Which is easier, fiddling around with your setup so you can post
>> reasonably on Google Groups, or just getting a better client? With
>> your setup, you have to drop out to another editor and press F9 for it
>> to work. With pretty much any other newsreader on the planet, this
>> works straight off, no setup necessary.
>> 
>> I'm still going to advise people to stop using buggy rubbish.
> 
> My opinion is that the Python list should dump the Usenet tie-in and
> just go straight e-mail.  Python is the only list I'm on that has a
> usenet gateway.
> 
> I used to love usenet back in the day, but in the present internet
> climate makes it unworkable, though I concede that e-mail is reaching
> the end of its usefulness as well.
> 
> I wouldn't oppose a dual e-mail list and web-based forum system,
> provided the forum system supported threaded conversations in a clean
> and useful way (maybe like google wave used to).
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Here! Here! Well said and amen. My thoughts exactly.

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#60713

On 11/28/13 11:23 AM, Travis Griggs wrote:
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Nov 28, 2013, at 7:40, Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/28/2013 08:08 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>> Which is easier, fiddling around with your setup so you can post
>>> reasonably on Google Groups, or just getting a better client? With
>>> your setup, you have to drop out to another editor and press F9 for it
>>> to work. With pretty much any other newsreader on the planet, this
>>> works straight off, no setup necessary.
>>>
>>> I'm still going to advise people to stop using buggy rubbish.
>>
>> My opinion is that the Python list should dump the Usenet tie-in and
>> just go straight e-mail.  Python is the only list I'm on that has a
>> usenet gateway.
>>
>> I used to love usenet back in the day, but in the present internet
>> climate makes it unworkable, though I concede that e-mail is reaching
>> the end of its usefulness as well.
>>
>> I wouldn't oppose a dual e-mail list and web-based forum system,
>> provided the forum system supported threaded conversations in a clean
>> and useful way (maybe like google wave used to).
>> --
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> Here! Here! Well said and amen. My thoughts exactly.
>

Funny, I thought the sentiment of many here was, "let's just keep this 
as a newsgroup, why do we need the mailing list also?" but I'll admit to 
being confused about what people have been proposing for alternate 
topologies.

--Ned.

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#60721

On 11/28/2013 10:23 AM, Ned Batchelder wrote:
> Funny, I thought the sentiment of many here was, "let's just keep this 
> as a newsgroup, why do we need the mailing list also?" but I'll admit to 
> being confused about what people have been proposing for alternate 
> topologies.

That may well be the majority sentiment here.  I only state my opinion.

Seems like 90% of the problems on this list come from the unchecked
usenet side of things.  Such as trolls or spam.  For example a certain
iron-skulled person who posted his whining rants and threats from half a
dozen different addresses to the annoyance of all.  Despite many calls
to banish him from the list for his blatant disregard for list
etiquette, with usenet it's just not possible.  Although I'm sure some
would argue that's a good thing to be unable to kick offenders off the list.

I've used mailing lists for many years and they seem to be a good
compromise between an open community and a controlled forum.

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