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A few questiosn about encoding

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  A few questiosn about encoding Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-09 03:44 -0700
    Re: A few questiosn about encoding Fábio Santos <fabiosantosart@gmail.com> - 2013-06-09 13:18 +0100
    Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2013-06-09 18:01 +0100
    Re: A few questiosn about encoding Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2013-06-09 19:12 +0200
      Re: A few questiosn about encoding Νικόλαος Κούρας <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-12 09:09 +0000
        Re: A few questiosn about encoding Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-12 09:24 +0000
          Re: A few questiosn about encoding Νικόλαος Κούρας <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-12 14:23 +0300
            Re: A few questiosn about encoding Ulrich Eckhardt <ulrich.eckhardt@dominolaser.com> - 2013-06-12 14:52 +0200
            Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2013-06-12 21:30 +0100
              Re: A few questiosn about encoding Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-13 01:40 +0000
                Re: A few questiosn about encoding Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-13 12:01 +1000
                  Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2013-06-13 11:02 +0100
              Re: A few questiosn about encoding Νικόλαος Κούρας <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-13 09:21 +0300
                Re: A few questiosn about encoding jmfauth <wxjmfauth@gmail.com> - 2013-06-12 23:28 -0700
                Re: A few questiosn about encoding Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-13 16:48 +1000
            Re: A few questiosn about encoding Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-13 00:13 +0000
              Re: A few questiosn about encoding Νικόλαος Κούρας <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-13 09:09 +0300
                Re: A few questiosn about encoding Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-13 07:11 +0000
                  Re: A few questiosn about encoding Νικόλαος Κούρας <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-13 10:42 +0300
                    Re: A few questiosn about encoding Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-13 17:58 +1000
                      Re: A few questiosn about encoding Νικόλαος Κούρας <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-13 11:08 +0300
                        Re: A few questiosn about encoding Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-13 18:20 +1000
                          Re: A few questiosn about encoding Νικόλαος Κούρας <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-13 12:41 +0300
                            Re: A few questiosn about encoding Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-13 11:49 +0000
                              Re: A few questiosn about encoding Νικόλαος Κούρας <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-13 17:19 +0300
                                Re: A few questiosn about encoding Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2013-06-14 11:00 +1000
                                  Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 09:59 +0300
                                    Re: A few questiosn about encoding Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2013-06-14 20:14 +1000
                                      Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 16:58 +0300
                                        Re: A few questiosn about encoding Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-06-14 11:21 -0400
                                          Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 18:26 +0300
                                            Re: A few questiosn about encoding Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 03:03 +1000
                                              Re: A few questiosn about encoding Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> - 2013-06-14 23:32 +0000
                                        Re: A few questiosn about encoding Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2013-06-15 10:26 +1000
                                        Re: A few questiosn about encoding Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 06:34 +0000
                                          Re: A few questiosn about encoding Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-15 14:44 +0000
                                            Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-15 17:49 +0300
                                              Re: A few questiosn about encoding Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-15 15:30 +0000
                                            Re: A few questiosn about encoding Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-06-15 10:59 -0400
                                              Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-15 18:14 +0300
                                                Re: A few questiosn about encoding Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 11:35 -0400
                                        Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-15 22:26 +0300
                                          Re: A few questiosn about encoding Benjamin Schollnick <benjamin@schollnick.net> - 2013-06-15 16:35 -0400
                                          Re: A few questiosn about encoding Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2013-06-16 15:45 +0200
                        Re: A few questiosn about encoding Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-14 09:36 +0200
                          Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 10:49 +0300
                            Re: A few questiosn about encoding Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-14 10:22 +0200
                              Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 11:37 +0300
                                Don't feed the troll... (was: Re: A few questiosn about encoding) Heiko Wundram <modelnine@modelnine.org> - 2013-06-14 11:06 +0200
                                  Re: Don't feed the troll... Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 12:32 +0300
                                    Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-14 13:09 +0200
                                      Re: Don't feed the troll... Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 15:36 +0300
                                        Re: Don't feed the troll... Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-06-14 08:44 -0400
                                        Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-14 15:25 +0200
                                          Re: Don't feed the troll... Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-06-14 15:54 +0000
                                    Re: Don't feed the troll... Heiko Wundram <modelnine@modelnine.org> - 2013-06-14 12:15 +0200
                                    Re: Don't feed the troll... Guy Scree <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2013-06-14 18:50 -0400
                                    Re: Don't feed the troll... Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 06:31 +0000
                                      Re: Don't feed the troll... Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-06-15 13:04 -0400
                                    Re: Don't feed the troll... Guy Scree <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2013-06-17 16:15 -0400
                                      Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-18 07:46 +1000
                                Re: A few questiosn about encoding Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2013-06-14 20:19 +1000
                                  Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 15:41 +0300
                                Re: Don't feed the troll... (was: Re: A few questiosn about encoding) Fábio Santos <fabiosantosart@gmail.com> - 2013-06-14 11:20 +0100
                                  Re: Don't feed the troll... (was: Re: A few questiosn about encoding) rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-14 04:51 -0700
                                    Re: Don't feed the help-vampire rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-14 05:09 -0700
                                      Re: Don't feed the help-vampire Heiko Wundram <modelnine@modelnine.org> - 2013-06-14 14:31 +0200
                                      Re: Don't feed the help-vampire Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-14 10:51 -0600
                                    Re: Don't feed the troll... Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 15:50 +0300
                                      Re: Don't feed the troll... Zero Piraeus <schesis@gmail.com> - 2013-06-14 09:33 -0400
                                  Re: Don't feed the troll... Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 15:45 +0300
                                    Re: Don't feed the troll... Heiko Wundram <modelnine@modelnine.org> - 2013-06-14 14:58 +0200
                                    Re: Don't feed the troll... Fábio Santos <fabiosantosart@gmail.com> - 2013-06-14 14:25 +0100
                                    Re: Don't feed the troll... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-14 17:12 +0100
                                Re: A few questiosn about encoding Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-14 12:50 +0200
                                  Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 15:59 +0300
                                    Re: A few questiosn about encoding Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-14 15:52 +0200
                                    Re: A few questiosn about encoding Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2013-06-15 10:28 +1000
                                    Re: A few questiosn about encoding Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-17 08:49 +0200
                                Re: Don't feed the troll... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-14 12:57 +0100
                                Re: Don't feed the troll... (was: Re: A few questiosn about encoding) "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> - 2013-06-14 13:13 -0400
                                Re: Don't feed the troll... (was: Re: A few questiosn about encoding) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 03:31 +1000
                                  Re: Don't feed the troll... (was: Re: A few questiosn about encoding) Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-14 19:40 +0000
                                Re: Don't feed the troll "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> - 2013-06-14 13:56 -0400
                                Re: Don't feed the troll Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2013-06-14 14:00 -0500
                                Re: Don't feed the troll "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> - 2013-06-14 15:17 -0400
                                Re: Don't feed the troll... Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-06-15 10:42 +1000
                  Re: A few questiosn about encoding Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-06-19 18:46 -0700
                    Re: A few questiosn about encoding Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-20 06:26 +0000
                      Re: A few questiosn about encoding MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-06-20 12:43 +0100
                        Re: A few questiosn about encoding wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-06-20 09:27 -0700
                          Re: A few questiosn about encoding Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-21 02:37 +1000
                          Re: A few questiosn about encoding MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-06-20 18:17 +0100
                            Re: A few questiosn about encoding wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-06-23 08:51 -0700
                              Re: A few questiosn about encoding Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-23 16:30 +0000
                                Re: A few questiosn about encoding wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-06-25 13:16 -0700
                          Re: A few questiosn about encoding Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-21 03:21 +1000
                          Re: A few questiosn about encoding Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-20 20:43 +0100
                      Re: A few questiosn about encoding Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-06-20 06:40 -0700
                        Re: A few questiosn about encoding Andrew Berg <robotsondrugs@gmail.com> - 2013-06-20 09:04 -0500
                          Re: A few questiosn about encoding Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-06-20 08:12 -0700
                            Re: A few questiosn about encoding Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-21 01:26 +1000
                            Re: A few questiosn about encoding Jussi Piitulainen <jpiitula@ling.helsinki.fi> - 2013-06-20 20:25 +0300
                        Re: A few questiosn about encoding Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-21 01:28 +1000
                        Re: A few questiosn about encoding Andreas Perstinger <andipersti@gmail.com> - 2013-06-20 19:08 +0200
          Re: A few questiosn about encoding Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2013-06-12 08:43 -0400
        Re: A few questiosn about encoding Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-06-13 18:46 -0400
          Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 08:34 +0300
            Re: A few questiosn about encoding Zero Piraeus <schesis@gmail.com> - 2013-06-14 02:00 -0400
              Re: A few questiosn about encoding Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-14 10:28 +0300

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#48601 — Re: Don't feed the troll...

On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 6:15 AM, Guy Scree <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
> I recommend that all participants in this thread, especially Alex and
> Anton, research the term "Pathological Altruism"

I don't intend to buy a book about it, but based on flipping through a
few Google results and snippets, I'm thinking that this is the
"Paladin fault" that I know from Dungeons & Dragons. :)

ChrisA

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#48110

On 14Jun2013 11:37, Nikos as SuperHost Support <support@superhost.gr> wrote:
| On 14/6/2013 11:22 πμ, Antoon Pardon wrote:
| 
| >>Python prints numbers:
| >No it doesn't, numbers are abstract concepts that can be represented in
| >various notations, these notations are strings. Those notaional strings
| >end up being printed. As I said before we are so used in using the
| >decimal notation that we often use the notation and the number interchangebly
| >without a problem. But when we are working with multiple notations that
| >can become confusing and we should be careful to seperate numbers from their
| >representaions/notations.
| 
| How do we separate a number then from its represenation-natation?

Shrug. When you "print" a number, Python transcribes a string
representation of it to your terminal.

| What is a notation anywat? is it a way of displayment? but that
| would be a represeantion then....

Yep. Same thing. A "notation" is a particulart formal method of
representation.

| No it doesn't, numbers are abstract concepts that can be represented in
| various notations
| 
| >>but when we need a decimal integer
| >
| >There are no decimal integers. There is only a decimal notation of the number.
| >Decimal, octal etc are not characteristics of the numbers themselves.
| 
| So everything we see like:
| 
| 16474
| nikos
| abc123
| 
| everything is a string and nothing is a number? not even number 1?

Everything you see like that is textual information. Internally to
Python, various types are used: strings, bytes, integers etc. But
when you print something, text is output.

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au>

A long-forgotten loved one will appear soon. Buy the negatives at any price.

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#48133

On 14/6/2013 1:19 μμ, Cameron Simpson wrote:
> On 14Jun2013 11:37, Nikos as SuperHost Support <support@superhost.gr> wrote:
> | On 14/6/2013 11:22 πμ, Antoon Pardon wrote:
> |
> | >>Python prints numbers:
> | >No it doesn't, numbers are abstract concepts that can be represented in
> | >various notations, these notations are strings. Those notaional strings
> | >end up being printed. As I said before we are so used in using the
> | >decimal notation that we often use the notation and the number interchangebly
> | >without a problem. But when we are working with multiple notations that
> | >can become confusing and we should be careful to seperate numbers from their
> | >representaions/notations.
> |
> | How do we separate a number then from its represenation-natation?
>
> Shrug. When you "print" a number, Python transcribes a string
> representation of it to your terminal.

 >>> 16
16

So the output 16 is in fact a string representation of the number 16 ?

Then in what 16 and '16; differ to?

>
> | What is a notation anywat? is it a way of displayment? but that
> | would be a represeantion then....
>
> Yep. Same thing. A "notation" is a particulart formal method of
> representation.


Can you elaborate please?
> | No it doesn't, numbers are abstract concepts that can be represented in
> | various notations
> |
> | >>but when we need a decimal integer
> | >
> | >There are no decimal integers. There is only a decimal notation of the number.
> | >Decimal, octal etc are not characteristics of the numbers themselves.
> |
> | So everything we see like:
> |
> | 16474
> | nikos
> | abc123
> |
> | everything is a string and nothing is a number? not even number 1?
>
> Everything you see like that is textual information. Internally to
> Python, various types are used: strings, bytes, integers etc. But
> when you print something, text is output.
>
> Cheers,
>
Thanks!

-- 
What is now proved was at first only imagined!

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#48111 — Re: Don't feed the troll... (was: Re: A few questiosn about encoding)

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 14 Jun 2013 10:20, "Heiko Wundram" <modelnine@modelnine.org> wrote:
>
> Am 14.06.2013 10:37, schrieb Nick the Gr33k:
>>
>> So everything we see like:
>>
>> 16474
>> nikos
>> abc123
>>
>> everything is a string and nothing is a number? not even number 1?
>
>
> Come on now, this is _so_ obviously trolling, it's not even remotely
funny anymore. Why doesn't killfiling work with the mailing list version of
the python list? :-(

I have skimmed the archives for this month, and I estimate that a third of
this month's activity on this list was helping this person. About 80% of
that is wasted in explaining basic concepts he refuses to read in links
given to him. A depressingly large number of replies to his posts are
seemingly ignored.

Since this is a lot of spam, I feel like leaving the list, but I also
honestly want to help people use python and the replies to questions of
others often give me much insight on several matters.

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#48118 — Re: Don't feed the troll... (was: Re: A few questiosn about encoding)

On Jun 14, 3:20 pm, Fábio Santos <fabiosantos...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Come on now, this is _so_ obviously trolling, it's not even remotely
>
> funny anymore. Why doesn't killfiling work with the mailing list version of
> the python list? :-(
>
> I have skimmed the archives for this month, and I estimate that a third of
> this month's activity on this list was helping this person. About 80% of
> that is wasted in explaining basic concepts he refuses to read in links
> given to him. A depressingly large number of replies to his posts are
> seemingly ignored.
>
> Since this is a lot of spam, I feel like leaving the list, but I also
> honestly want to help people use python and the replies to questions of
> others often give me much insight on several matters.

Adding my +1 to this sentiment.

In older saner and more politically incorrect times, when there was a
student who was as idiotic as Nikos, he would be made to:
-- run five rounds of the field
-- stay after school
-- write pages of "I shall not talk in class"

In the age of cut-n-paste the last has lost its sting. Likewise the
first two are hard to administer across the internet.
Still if we are genuinely interested in solving this problem, ways may
be found, for example:

Any question from Nikos that has any English error, should be returned
with:
Correct your English before we look at your python.

If he is brazen enough to correct one error and leave the other 35,
then we put in a 24-hour delay for each reply.

I am sure others can come up with better solutions if we wish.

The alternative is that this disease has an unfavorable prognosis:
[Yes Nikos is an infectious disease: I believe I can pull out mails
from Steven and Grant Edwards whic hare begng tolook sspcicious ly
like Nikos [Sorry Im not much good at imitation!] ]

And that unfavorable prognosis is what Fabio is suggesting -- people
will start leaving the list/group.

Nikos:
This is not against you personally.  Just your current mode of conduct
towards this list.
And that mode quite simply is this: You have no interest in python,
you are only interested in the immediate questions of your web-hosting.

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#48125 — Re: Don't feed the help-vampire

On Jun 14, 4:51 pm, rusi <rustompm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 14, 3:20 pm, Fábio Santos <fabiosantos...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Come on now, this is _so_ obviously trolling, it's not even remotely
>
> > funny anymore. Why doesn't killfiling work with the mailing list version of
> > the python list? :-(
>
> > I have skimmed the archives for this month, and I estimate that a third of
> > this month's activity on this list was helping this person. About 80% of
> > that is wasted in explaining basic concepts he refuses to read in links
> > given to him. A depressingly large number of replies to his posts are
> > seemingly ignored.
>
> > Since this is a lot of spam, I feel like leaving the list, but I also
> > honestly want to help people use python and the replies to questions of
> > others often give me much insight on several matters.
>
> Adding my +1 to this sentiment.

Since identifying a disease by the right name is key to finding a
cure:
Nikos is not trolling or spamming; he is help-vampiring.

Lets call it that.

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#48128 — Re: Don't feed the help-vampire

Am 14.06.2013 14:09, schrieb rusi:
> Since identifying a disease by the right name is key to finding a
> cure:
> Nikos is not trolling or spamming; he is help-vampiring.

Just to explain the trolling allegation: I'm not talking about him 
wanting to get his scripts fixed, that's help-vampiring most certainly, 
and an extreme form of that (thanks btw. for pointing me to that term, 
whoever did).

I was talking about his repeated attempts at "making conversation" by 
asking questions about encoding, short-circuit evaluation and such which 
seem like they are relevant for him to solve his problem, but due to his 
persistence of understanding things in a wrong way/not understanding 
them at all/repeating the same misunderstandings time after time have 
drifted off into endless repetitions of the same facts by helpful 
posters, and have gotten a lot of people seriously annoyed (also, due to 
other facts such as him changing his NNTP hosts and/or From-addresses 
which breaks kill-filing).

Now, if that latter behaviour isn't trolling, I don't know what is. 
Simply nobody who takes what he does at least a little bit serious is 
_as_ thick as he makes himself seem.

-- 
--- Heiko.

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#48270 — Re: Don't feed the help-vampire

On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 6:09 AM, rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> wrote:
> Since identifying a disease by the right name is key to finding a
> cure:
> Nikos is not trolling or spamming; he is help-vampiring.

I think he's a very dedicated troll elaborately disguised as a help
vampire.  Remember that one of the names he previously used to post to
this list was "Ferrous Cranus".

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/ferouscranus.htm

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#48138 — Re: Don't feed the troll...

On 14/6/2013 2:51 μμ, rusi wrote:

> Nikos:
> This is not against you personally.  Just your current mode of conduct
> towards this list.
> And that mode quite simply is this: You have no interest in python,
> you are only interested in the immediate questions of your web-hosting.

If that was True i wouldn't be asking to be given detailed explanations 
of a solution provided to me, neither would i been asked to understand 
why the way i tried it is wrong and what was the correct way of writing 
the code and why.

So, if i had no interest of actually learning python i would just cut n' 
paste provided code without worrying what it actually does, since 
knowing that came form you would be enough to know that works.



-- 
What is now proved was at first only imagined!

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#48271 — Re: Don't feed the troll...

:

On 14 June 2013 08:50, Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> wrote:
>
> So, if i had no interest of actually learning python i would just cut n'
> paste provided code without worrying what it actually does, since knowing
> that came form you would be enough to know that works.

Worrying what it actually does is good; an inquiring mind is a
prerequisite for becoming a good programmer.

Another prerequisite is discipline. That means the discipline to try
and work out for yourself what's going on, rather than repeatedly
spamming this list with trivial enquiries.

It also means the discipline to both read and type carefully: until
and unless you learn to take more care in how you express yourself,
both in code and in prose, you will be plagued by syntax errors and
frustrated responses respectively.

I have only skimmed it, but you might find the following tutorial helpful:

  http://learnpythonthehardway.org/

Many of the early exercises may seem too basic, and you'll be tempted
to skip them - given your conduct here, I imagine you'll be *strongly*
tempted to skip them. Don't. You need to learn discipline.

 -[]z.

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#48135 — Re: Don't feed the troll...

On 14/6/2013 1:20 μμ, Fábio Santos wrote:
>
> On 14 Jun 2013 10:20, "Heiko Wundram" <modelnine@modelnine.org
> <mailto:modelnine@modelnine.org>> wrote:
>  >
>  > Am 14.06.2013 10:37, schrieb Nick the Gr33k:
>  >>
>  >> So everything we see like:
>  >>
>  >> 16474
>  >> nikos
>  >> abc123
>  >>
>  >> everything is a string and nothing is a number? not even number 1?
>  >
>  >
>  > Come on now, this is _so_ obviously trolling, it's not even remotely
> funny anymore. Why doesn't killfiling work with the mailing list version
> of the python list? :-(
>
> I have skimmed the archives for this month, and I estimate that a third
> of this month's activity on this list was helping this person. About 80%
> of that is wasted in explaining basic concepts he refuses to read in
> links given to him. A depressingly large number of replies to his posts
> are seemingly ignored.
>
> Since this is a lot of spam, I feel like leaving the list, but I also
> honestly want to help people use python and the replies to questions of
> others often give me much insight on several matters.
>
I'am not spamming and as you say i dare to ask what other don't if they 
don't understand something.
I'am not trolling and actually help people with my questions(as you 
admitted yourself) and you are helping with your replies.

we are all benefit out of this.

-- 
What is now proved was at first only imagined!

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#48140 — Re: Don't feed the troll...

Am 14.06.2013 14:45, schrieb Nick the Gr33k:
> we are all benefit out of this.

Let's nominate you for a nobel prize, saviour of python-list!

-- 
--- Heiko.

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#48145 — Re: Don't feed the troll...

On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 1:58 PM, Heiko Wundram <modelnine@modelnine.org> wrote:
> Am 14.06.2013 14:45, schrieb Nick the Gr33k:
>
>> we are all benefit out of this.
>
>
> Let's nominate you for a nobel prize, saviour of python-list!
>

I don't want to be saved. I just found out how to mute conversations in gmail.

--
Fábio Santos

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#48171 — Re: Don't feed the troll...

On 14/06/2013 13:58, Heiko Wundram wrote:
> Am 14.06.2013 14:45, schrieb Nick the Gr33k:
>> we are all benefit out of this.
>
> Let's nominate you for a nobel prize, saviour of python-list!
>

The Nobel prize is unsuited in a situation like this, maybe the ACM 
Turing Award?

-- 
"Steve is going for the pink ball - and for those of you who are 
watching in black and white, the pink is next to the green." Snooker 
commentator 'Whispering' Ted Lowe.

Mark Lawrence

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#48114

Op 14-06-13 10:37, Nick the Gr33k schreef:
> On 14/6/2013 11:22 πμ, Antoon Pardon wrote:
>
>>> Python prints numbers:
>> No it doesn't, numbers are abstract concepts that can be represented in
>> various notations, these notations are strings. Those notaional strings
>> end up being printed. As I said before we are so used in using the
>> decimal notation that we often use the notation and the number
>> interchangebly
>> without a problem. But when we are working with multiple notations that
>> can become confusing and we should be careful to seperate numbers
>> from their
>> representaions/notations.
>
> How do we separate a number then from its represenation-natation?
What do you mean? Internally there is no representation linked
to the number, so there is nothing to be seperated. Only when
a number needs to be printed, is a representation for that
number built and displayed.


> What is a notation anywat? is it a way of displayment? but that would
> be a represeantion then....
Yes a notation is a representation. However "represenation" is also
a bit of python jargon that has a specific meaning. So in order to
not confuse with multiple possible meanings for "representation" I
chose to use "notation"


>> There are no decimal integers. There is only a decimal notation of
>> the number.
>> Decimal, octal etc are not characteristics of the numbers themselves.
>
>
> So everything we see like:
>
> 16474
> nikos
> abc123
>
> everything is a string and nothing is a number? not even number 1?
There is a difference between "everything we see" as you
write earlier and just plain "eveything" as you write
later. Python works with numbers, but at the moment
it has to display such a number it has to produce something
that is printable. So it will build a string that can be
used as a notation for that number, a numeral. And that
is what will be displayed.

-- 
Antoon.

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#48141

On 14/6/2013 1:50 μμ, Antoon Pardon wrote:

> Python works with numbers, but at the moment
> it has to display such a number it has to produce something
> that is printable. So it will build a string that can be
> used as a notation for that number, a numeral. And that
> is what will be displayed.

so a number is just a number but when this number needs to be displayed 
into a monitor, then the printed form of that number we choose to call 
it a numeral?

So, a numeral = a string representation of a number. Is this correct?

-- 
What is now proved was at first only imagined!

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#48148

Op 14-06-13 14:59, Nick the Gr33k schreef:

> On 14/6/2013 1:50 μμ, Antoon Pardon wrote:
>> Python works with numbers, but at the moment
>> it has to display such a number it has to produce something
>> that is printable. So it will build a string that can be
>> used as a notation for that number, a numeral. And that
>> is what will be displayed.
> so a number is just a number but when this number needs to be displayed 
> into a monitor, then the printed form of that number we choose to call 
> it a numeral?
> So, a numeral = a string representation of a number. Is this correct?
Yes, when you print an integer, what actually happens is something along
the following algorithm (python 2 code):


def write_int(out, nr):
    ord0 = ord('0')
    lst = []
    negative = False
    if nr < 0:
        negative = True
        nr = -nr
    while nr:
        digit = nr % 10
        lst.append(chr(digit + ord0))
        nr /= 10
    if negative:
        lst.append('-')
    lst.reverse()
    if not lst:
        lst.append('0')
    numeral = ''.join(lst)
    out.write(numeral)

-- 
Antoon Pardon

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#48236

On 14Jun2013 15:59, Nikos as SuperHost Support <support@superhost.gr> wrote:
| So, a numeral = a string representation of a number. Is this correct?

No, a numeral is an individual digit from the string representation of a number.
So: 65 requires two numerals: '6' and '5'.
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au>

In life, you should always try to know your strong points, but this is
far less important than knowing your weak points.
Martin Fitzpatrick <mfitzpatrick@scot.bbc.co.uk>

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#48499

Op 15-06-13 02:28, Cameron Simpson schreef:
> On 14Jun2013 15:59, Nikos as SuperHost Support <support@superhost.gr> wrote:
> | So, a numeral = a string representation of a number. Is this correct?
>
> No, a numeral is an individual digit from the string representation of a number.
> So: 65 requires two numerals: '6' and '5'.
Wrong context. A numeral as an individual digit is when you are talking about
individual characters in a font. In such a context the set of glyphs that
represent a digit are the numerals.

However in a context of programming, numerals in general refer to the set of
strings that represent a number.

-- 
Antoon.

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#48120 — Re: Don't feed the troll...

On 14/06/2013 11:20, Fábio Santos wrote:

>
> Since this is a lot of spam, I feel like leaving the list, but I also
> honestly want to help people use python and the replies to questions of
> others often give me much insight on several matters.
>

Plenty of genuine people needing genuine help on the tutor mailing list, 
or have you been there already?

-- 
"Steve is going for the pink ball - and for those of you who are 
watching in black and white, the pink is next to the green." Snooker 
commentator 'Whispering' Ted Lowe.

Mark Lawrence

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