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tkinter bug on mac maverick python 3.3.3

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  tkinter bug on mac maverick python 3.3.3 Dan Wissme <wissme@hotmail.com> - 2013-11-27 12:32 +0100
    Re: tkinter bug on mac maverick python 3.3.3 Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-11-27 06:48 -0500
    Re: tkinter bug on mac maverick python 3.3.3 Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-11-27 10:18 -0500
    Re: tkinter bug on mac maverick python 3.3.3 Travis Griggs <travisgriggs@gmail.com> - 2013-11-27 10:44 -0800
    Re: tkinter bug on mac maverick python 3.3.3 Ned Deily <nad@acm.org> - 2013-11-27 12:17 -0800
    Re: tkinter bug on mac maverick python 3.3.3 Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-11-27 18:01 -0500

#60596 — tkinter bug on mac maverick python 3.3.3

Hi !
Am I the only one to get a bug in GUIs using tkinter on my Mac under 
maverick and Python 3.3.3 ?
When will they get rid of Tcl/Tk which causes recurrent problems at 
almost each new Python version !
Please, for the rest of us...

    -dan

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#60597

On 11/27/13 6:32 AM, Dan Wissme wrote:
> Hi !
> Am I the only one to get a bug in GUIs using tkinter on my Mac under
> maverick and Python 3.3.3 ?
> When will they get rid of Tcl/Tk which causes recurrent problems at
> almost each new Python version !
> Please, for the rest of us...
>
>     -dan

It sounds like you're really frustrated, I'm sorry.  I don't know if you 
want help with your actual bug, if so, provide details.  If it's any 
consolation, Guido himself is also frustrated: 
https://twitter.com/gvanrossum/status/404768253282484224

--Ned.

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#60616

On 11/27/2013 6:48 AM, Ned Batchelder wrote:
> On 11/27/13 6:32 AM, Dan Wissme wrote:
>> Hi !
>> Am I the only one to get a bug in GUIs using tkinter on my Mac under
>> maverick and Python 3.3.3 ?
>> When will they get rid of Tcl/Tk which causes recurrent problems at
>> almost each new Python version !
>> Please, for the rest of us...
>>
>>     -dan
>
> It sounds like you're really frustrated, I'm sorry.  I don't know if you
> want help with your actual bug, if so, provide details.  If it's any
> consolation, Guido himself is also frustrated:
> https://twitter.com/gvanrossum/status/404768253282484224

As noted in the Twitter thread, the problem is with Apple shenanigans. 
Tk and hence Idle have steadily worked on Windows for at least a decade.


-- 
Terry Jan Reedy

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#60630

On Nov 27, 2013, at 3:32 AM, Dan Wissme <wissme@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hi !
> Am I the only one to get a bug in GUIs using tkinter on my Mac under maverick and Python 3.3.3 ?
> When will they get rid of Tcl/Tk which causes recurrent problems at almost each new Python version !
> Please, for the rest of us...

I’m curious, if they get rid of Tcl/Tk as you wished, what do you propose replacing it with?

It’s not like there are other “light weight cross platform ui frameworks” that are obvious replacements. Most of the others are far heavier. And all have issues with their purported cross platformness.

Or are you proposing that Tcl/Tk be moved out of the python core distro, and instead delivered as a separate package? If *this* is your proposal, I wholeheartedly agree. Just the other day, I was working on putting python3 on a beaglebone black (similar to a raspberry pi). It built OK, but I had to ignore lots of warnings about Tcl/Tk not working, which of course was a “duh”.

I was surprised, that among some, there’s a sentiment that python core MUST include it. Which was interesting. One of the core principles of this language is all about modules and modularity. Why can’t the Tcl/Tk module be the same as numpy and scipy and many of the other widely installed-after-the-fact-as-appropriate packages?

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#60633

In article <5295d83d$0$3458$426a34cc@news.free.fr>,
 Dan Wissme <wissme@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Am I the only one to get a bug in GUIs using tkinter on my Mac under 
> maverick and Python 3.3.3 ?
> When will they get rid of Tcl/Tk which causes recurrent problems at 
> almost each new Python version !
> Please, for the rest of us...

If the problem you are referring to is that Tk widgets are not being redrawn 
properly until you move the cursor over them or type in them, follow the 
instructions here and install the very latest version of ActiveTcl 8.5 for OS 
X (labeled 8.5.15.0 on the web site but the download file is 8.5.15.1).

http://www.python.org/download/mac/tcltk/

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad@acm.org

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#60646

On 11/27/2013 1:44 PM, Travis Griggs wrote:

> Or are you proposing that Tcl/Tk be moved out of the python core
> distro, and instead delivered as a separate package?

AFAIK, TK is only distributed with the core on Windows, where there is 
no package manager to easily install it. It is required for the turtle 
and idle modules.

> If *this* is
> your proposal, I wholeheartedly agree. Just the other day, I was
> working on putting python3 on a beaglebone black (similar to a
> raspberry pi). It built OK, but I had to ignore lots of warnings
> about Tcl/Tk not working, which of course was a “duh”.

Were you running the test suite? Perhaps you can customize the list of 
expect skips for your particular system. But I am not sure how.

> I was surprised, that among some, there’s a sentiment that python
> core MUST include it. Which was interesting. One of the core
> principles of this language is all about modules and modularity. Why
> can’t the Tcl/Tk module be the same as numpy and scipy and many of
> the other widely installed-after-the-fact-as-appropriate packages?

Nothing in the stdlib uses numpy. It is not a beginner package. Turtle 
and Idle are. Idle is really necessary, at least for many beginners, on 
Windows. Teachers and beginners appreciate being able to load and go.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy

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