Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > comp.lang.python > #108830 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Herkermer Sherwood <theherk@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-05-19 09:31 -0700 |
| Last post | 2016-06-16 11:19 +1000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 282 — 43 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.python
This discussion starts older than the indexed window; earlier articles aren't shown. The article labeled Started by
below is the oldest one visible, not the original post.
for / while else doesn't make sense Herkermer Sherwood <theherk@gmail.com> - 2016-05-19 09:31 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2016-05-19 10:22 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-20 04:02 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense theherk@gmail.com - 2016-05-19 11:47 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-05-19 23:28 +0300
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense David Jardine <david@jardine.de> - 2016-05-19 21:49 +0200
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-20 03:46 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2016-05-19 17:55 +0000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-20 10:06 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense gst <g.starck@gmail.com> - 2016-05-19 19:02 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Stephen Hansen <me+python@ixokai.io> - 2016-05-19 23:53 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2016-05-20 11:55 +0000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-05-20 19:57 -0400
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-21 21:26 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2016-05-20 16:58 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2016-05-21 00:24 +0000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-21 13:50 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-05-21 14:01 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-21 19:56 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-05-21 20:08 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-21 20:55 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-05-21 21:10 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Erik <python@lucidity.plus.com> - 2016-05-21 08:20 +0100
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-05-21 11:37 +0300
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-21 20:39 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Erik <python@lucidity.plus.com> - 2016-05-21 21:48 +0100
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-22 12:57 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Michael Selik <michael.selik@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 02:55 +0000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-05-21 17:29 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2016-05-20 07:45 +0100
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-05-20 06:01 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2016-05-19 14:11 -0600
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-05-20 06:27 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-05-20 11:51 +1200
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Erik <python@lucidity.plus.com> - 2016-05-20 09:09 +0100
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Zachary Ware <zachary.ware+pylist@gmail.com> - 2016-05-20 10:59 -0500
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Christopher Reimer <christopher_reimer@icloud.com> - 2016-05-20 12:20 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-21 08:43 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense theherk@gmail.com - 2016-05-20 16:24 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-05-21 09:03 +0300
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-21 21:26 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2016-05-21 07:51 -0600
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> - 2016-05-21 15:20 +0000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-05-21 10:21 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2016-05-21 00:35 +0000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-05-21 12:05 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2016-05-22 14:15 +0000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-05-22 17:58 +0300
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2016-05-22 15:09 +0000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 08:26 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-05-22 13:25 -0400
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 10:34 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2016-05-22 18:06 +0000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-05-22 14:17 -0400
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-23 17:09 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-23 01:19 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 01:32 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-05-22 18:50 +0300
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2016-05-22 15:52 +0000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 02:35 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2016-05-22 16:46 +0000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 10:22 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-05-22 13:30 -0400
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2016-05-22 17:55 +0000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-05-22 14:14 -0400
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-05-22 20:51 +0100
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2016-05-23 00:34 +0000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 17:04 -0600
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-23 08:09 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2016-05-23 00:36 +0000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 11:01 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2016-05-23 01:00 +0000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense breamoreboy@gmail.com - 2016-05-22 18:47 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2016-05-23 15:35 +0000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2016-05-23 02:51 +0100
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-05-23 14:13 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 23:09 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-05-23 09:30 +0300
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 23:46 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-23 18:09 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 08:14 -0600
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-05-23 15:29 +0100
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 08:49 -0600
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Pete Forman <petef4+usenet@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 19:16 +0100
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 13:24 -0600
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Pete Forman <petef4+usenet@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 22:50 +0100
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-05-24 18:49 +1200
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Pete Forman <petef4+usenet@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 19:03 +0100
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-05-25 18:35 +1200
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-24 10:38 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 00:57 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-24 01:47 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 01:57 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-05-23 17:51 +0100
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 02:59 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-05-23 20:55 +0100
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Mark Dickinson <mdickinson@enthought.com> - 2016-05-23 20:17 +0000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-05-23 22:01 +0100
Numerical methods [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-24 10:57 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 08:30 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 10:02 -0600
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 20:22 +0000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 09:53 -0600
When were real numbers born? (was for / while else doesn't make sense) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 22:02 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Christopher Reimer <christopher_reimer@icloud.com> - 2016-05-23 15:36 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-24 11:05 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2016-05-23 19:19 -0700
META Culture of this place [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-25 02:43 +1000
Re: META Culture of this place [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] boB Stepp <robertvstepp@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 12:19 -0500
Re: META Culture of this place [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2016-05-24 10:44 -0700
Re: META Culture of this place [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-05-24 12:54 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 14:23 +0000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Christopher Reimer <christopher_reimer@icloud.com> - 2016-05-24 10:40 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-05-25 18:38 +1200
Extended ASCII [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-25 17:30 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Christopher Reimer <christopher_reimer@icloud.com> - 2016-05-25 02:10 -0700
Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-25 20:19 +1000
Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 20:30 +1000
Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Erik <python@lucidity.plus.com> - 2016-05-25 22:03 +0100
Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Jussi Piitulainen <jussi.piitulainen@helsinki.fi> - 2016-05-26 10:21 +0300
Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 00:44 -0700
Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-05-26 12:11 +0300
Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 19:20 +1000
Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Erik <python@lucidity.plus.com> - 2016-05-26 21:54 +0100
Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Jussi Piitulainen <jussi.piitulainen@helsinki.fi> - 2016-05-27 08:03 +0300
Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-05-25 21:28 -0400
Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Erik <python@lucidity.plus.com> - 2016-05-26 09:11 +0100
Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-05-26 12:20 +0300
Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Erik <python@lucidity.plus.com> - 2016-05-26 21:29 +0100
Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-05-27 00:12 +0300
Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-27 13:35 +1000
Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-05-27 09:10 +0300
Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-27 16:47 +1000
Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-05-27 10:04 +0300
Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-27 19:56 +1000
Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-05-27 09:51 -0400
Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-05-27 08:53 -0700
Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-05-27 12:09 -0400
Coding systems are political (was Exended ASCII and code pages) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-05-27 21:46 -0700
Re: Coding systems are political (was Exended ASCII and code pages) wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2016-05-28 08:16 -0700
Re: Coding systems are political (was Exended ASCII and code pages) Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2016-05-28 08:50 -0700
Re: Coding systems are political (was Exended ASCII and code pages) Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-05-28 14:05 -0400
Re: Coding systems are political (was Exended ASCII and code pages) Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-29 15:37 +1000
Re: Coding systems are political (was Exended ASCII and code pages) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-05-28 23:12 -0700
Re: Coding systems are political (was Exended ASCII and code pages) Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2016-05-29 14:46 -0400
Re: Coding systems are political (was Exended ASCII and code pages) Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2016-05-29 22:29 +0200
Re: Coding systems are political (was Exended ASCII and code pages) wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2016-05-30 06:35 -0700
Re: Coding systems are political (was Exended ASCII and code pages) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-04 20:54 -0700
Re: Coding systems are political (was Exended ASCII and code pages) alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2016-05-29 06:19 +0000
Re: Coding systems are political (was Exended ASCII and code pages) Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-05-29 20:54 +1200
Re: Coding systems are political (was Exended ASCII and code pages) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-05-29 12:56 +0300
Re: Coding systems are political (was Exended ASCII and code pages) wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2016-05-30 09:11 -0700
Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-05-28 02:16 +1000
Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-28 18:54 +1000
Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-05-27 22:03 +0300
Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-05-27 21:23 -0700
Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 03:39 -0700
Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-05-26 07:07 -0400
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-05-25 13:47 +0300
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Christopher Reimer <christopher_reimer@icloud.com> - 2016-05-25 05:19 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 22:49 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Jussi Piitulainen <jussi.piitulainen@helsinki.fi> - 2016-05-26 09:54 +0300
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 00:44 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2016-05-26 00:52 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-05-26 12:05 +0300
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-05-29 14:41 -0400
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-05-29 22:01 +0300
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-05-23 20:07 -0400
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 10:11 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-24 02:59 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2016-05-23 17:09 +0000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 03:33 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2016-05-23 17:57 +0000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 04:14 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-05-23 13:44 -0400
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 11:52 -0600
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Alan Evangelista <alanoe@linux.vnet.ibm.com> - 2016-05-23 15:06 -0300
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-24 12:15 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2016-05-24 10:54 +0000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-25 03:44 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 03:49 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2016-05-24 19:57 +0100
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2016-05-24 20:10 +0000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-05-23 20:29 +0100
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-23 18:33 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> - 2016-05-21 02:17 +0000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Christopher Reimer <christopher_reimer@icloud.com> - 2016-05-20 18:23 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-05-21 12:31 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Christopher Reimer <christopher_reimer@icloud.com> - 2016-05-20 20:47 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-05-20 22:18 -0700
Education [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-05-21 20:05 +1000
Re: Education [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Christopher Reimer <christopher_reimer@icloud.com> - 2016-05-21 08:51 -0700
Re: Education [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-05-21 20:08 +0300
Re: Education [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] Rob Gaddi <rgaddi@highlandtechnology.invalid> - 2016-05-23 16:44 +0000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-01 16:39 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-02 13:44 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Rob Gaddi <rgaddi@highlandtechnology.invalid> - 2016-06-02 20:09 +0000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2016-06-02 14:46 -0600
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-02 21:52 +0100
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-02 18:05 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-03 10:23 +0100
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-02 19:47 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-03 10:32 +0100
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 09:22 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-04 12:20 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 20:41 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-04 19:27 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-04 20:20 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-04 13:55 +0100
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-02 18:08 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Rob Gaddi <rgaddi@highlandtechnology.invalid> - 2016-06-03 15:52 +0000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 09:24 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-04 13:00 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 20:43 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2016-06-04 04:37 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-04 20:29 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-05 16:35 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2016-06-05 04:29 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-05 14:43 +0300
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-06 17:51 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2016-06-07 03:34 +0000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-07 00:53 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2016-06-07 12:27 +0000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-07 14:57 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2016-06-06 22:35 -0600
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-07 00:52 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-07 11:00 +0300
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-07 15:07 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2016-06-07 17:31 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-07 18:25 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-07 18:29 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2016-06-07 18:40 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense breamoreboy@gmail.com - 2016-06-07 20:45 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-08 08:24 +0300
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-07 18:36 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2016-06-07 05:52 -0600
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-07 14:58 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-08 01:06 +0300
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-07 15:08 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-08 08:27 +0300
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-08 17:34 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-09 18:19 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2016-06-07 17:11 -0600
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-06 17:53 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2016-06-07 21:13 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense pavlovevidence@gmail.com - 2016-06-12 00:01 -0700
AttributeError into a bloc try-except AttributeError Vincent Vande Vyvre <vincent.vande.vyvre@telenet.be> - 2016-06-12 09:20 +0200
Re: AttributeError into a bloc try-except AttributeError Vincent Vande Vyvre <vincent.vande.vyvre@telenet.be> - 2016-06-12 10:30 +0200
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-12 20:06 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Michael Selik <michael.selik@gmail.com> - 2016-06-12 18:44 +0000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-13 12:12 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-12 20:46 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Michael Selik <michael.selik@gmail.com> - 2016-06-13 23:45 +0000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-14 12:43 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Michael Selik <michael.selik@gmail.com> - 2016-06-14 04:37 +0000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-14 08:33 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-14 16:27 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-14 18:29 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-15 13:12 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-14 20:38 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-15 04:19 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-15 13:27 +0100
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-15 05:44 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-06-15 09:51 -0400
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-15 07:20 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-06-15 11:54 -0400
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-15 10:03 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-15 18:27 +0100
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-16 11:40 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Michael Selik <michael.selik@gmail.com> - 2016-06-15 17:18 +0000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-06-15 13:41 -0400
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-15 07:31 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-15 19:59 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-15 19:54 -0700
What is structured programming (was for/while else doesn't make sense) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-15 22:48 -0700
Re: What is structured programming (was for/while else doesn't make sense) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-15 22:57 -0700
Re: What is structured programming (was for/while else doesn't make sense) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-16 04:12 -0700
Re: What is structured programming (was for/while else doesn't make sense) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-16 18:53 -0700
Re: What is structured programming (was for/while else doesn't make sense) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-17 09:32 -0700
Re: What is structured programming (was for/while else doesn't make sense) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-17 16:07 -0700
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-06-15 23:56 +1000
Re: for / while else doesn't make sense Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-16 11:19 +1000
Page 7 of 15 — ← Prev page 1 … 5 6 [7] 8 9 … 15 Next page →
| From | Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-26 00:44 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] |
| Message-ID | <60768182-3e1e-40a9-b57c-0ddd31b82c0c@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #109138 |
On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 12:52:09 PM UTC+5:30, Jussi Piitulainen wrote: > UTF-16 ASCII is weird. Wierd. Probably all right in an environment that > is otherwise set to use UTF-16. In http://blog.languager.org/2015/03/whimsical-unicode.html are some examples of why UTF-16 is bug-inviting [ section is "Wide is too narrow" ]
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-26 12:11 +0300 |
| Subject | Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] |
| Message-ID | <877feh89pr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> |
| In reply to | #109138 |
Jussi Piitulainen <jussi.piitulainen@helsinki.fi>: > UTF-16 ASCII is weird. Wierd. Probably all right in an environment > that is otherwise set to use UTF-16. > > Nothing is as weird as a mix of different encodings of a foreign > script in the same "plain text" file, said to be "Unicode". <shudder/> Some children are just born under unlucky stars. Windows and Java are among them. If they had been designed a few years earlier or a few years later, they could have evaded the UTF-16 embarrassment, maybe the multithreading embarrassment as well. Python didn't come out unscathed, either. Multithreading is being replaced with asyncio, and Python 3 broke backward-compatibility to get Unicode right. Marko
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-26 19:20 +1000 |
| Subject | Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3.1464254410.2277.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #109145 |
On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 7:11 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> wrote: > Python didn't come out unscathed, either. Multithreading is being > replaced with asyncio Incorrect. Threading is still important - it's not being replaced. Asynchronous code support is being added to an existing pool of multiprocessing techniques, so you can now use preemptive processes or threads, or cooperative asyncio, depending on what you need. ChrisA
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Erik <python@lucidity.plus.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-26 21:54 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] |
| Message-ID | <mailman.13.1464296048.2277.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #109138 |
On 26/05/16 08:21, Jussi Piitulainen wrote: > UTF-8 ASCII is nice > > UTF-16 ASCII is weird. I am dumbstruck. E.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Jussi Piitulainen <jussi.piitulainen@helsinki.fi> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-27 08:03 +0300 |
| Subject | Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] |
| Message-ID | <lf5h9dk9jnt.fsf@ling.helsinki.fi> |
| In reply to | #109157 |
Erik writes: > On 26/05/16 08:21, Jussi Piitulainen wrote: >> UTF-8 ASCII is nice >> >> UTF-16 ASCII is weird. > > I am dumbstruck. I'm joking, of course. But those statements do make sense when one knows to distinguish a character set from its encoding as bytes, and then the UTF-8 encoding of ASCII really is nice. Where I live, anyway :)
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-25 21:28 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] |
| Message-ID | <mailman.93.1464226125.20402.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #109108 |
On Wed, 25 May 2016 22:03:34 +0100, Erik <python@lucidity.plus.com>
declaimed the following:
>Indeed - at that time, I was working with COBOL on an IBM S/370. On that
>system, we used EBCDIC ASCII. That was the wierdest ASCII of all <ducks> ;)
>
It would have to be... Extended Binary Coded Decimal Interchange Code,
as I recall, predates American Standard Code for Information Interchange.
EBCDIC's 8-bit code is actually more closely linked to Hollerith card
encodings. As a minor result, I used to be able to translate hex dumps in
my mind (my college computer, at the time, was a Xerox Sigma 6 -- which
used EBCDIC); ASCII, even though linear and contiguous, has never jumped
out at me when seen in hex.
--
Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN
wlfraed@ix.netcom.com HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Erik <python@lucidity.plus.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-26 09:11 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] |
| Message-ID | <mailman.1.1464250289.2277.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #109108 |
On 26/05/16 02:28, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: > On Wed, 25 May 2016 22:03:34 +0100, Erik <python@lucidity.plus.com> > declaimed the following: > >> Indeed - at that time, I was working with COBOL on an IBM S/370. On that >> system, we used EBCDIC ASCII. That was the wierdest ASCII of all <ducks> ;) >> > It would have to be... Extended Binary Coded Decimal Interchange Code, > as I recall, predates American Standard Code for Information Interchange. > > EBCDIC's 8-bit code is actually more closely linked to Hollerith card > encodings. I really didn't think it would be necessary to point this out (I thought the "<ducks>" and emoji would be enough), but for the record, my previous message was clearly a joke. To break it down, Stephen was making the observation that people call all sorts of extended ASCII encodings (including proprietary things) "ASCII". So I took it to the extreme and called something that had nothing to do with ASCII a type of ASCII. As they say, if one has to explain one's jokes then they are probably not funny ... <sigh> :( E.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-26 12:20 +0300 |
| Subject | Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] |
| Message-ID | <8737p589bo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> |
| In reply to | #109142 |
Erik <python@lucidity.plus.com>:
> To break it down, Stephen was making the observation that people call
> all sorts of extended ASCII encodings (including proprietary things)
> "ASCII". So I took it to the extreme and called something that had
> nothing to do with ASCII a type of ASCII.
ASCII has taken new meanings. For most coders, in relaxed style, it
refers to any byte-oriented character encoding scheme. In C terms,
ASCII == char *
Marko
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Erik <python@lucidity.plus.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-26 21:29 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] |
| Message-ID | <mailman.12.1464294584.2277.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #109147 |
On 26/05/16 10:20, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > ASCII has taken new meanings. For most coders, in relaxed style, it > refers to any byte-oriented character encoding scheme. In C terms, > > ASCII == char * Is this really true? So by "taken new meanings" you are saying that it has actually lost all meaning. The 'S' stands for "Standard". It's an encoding (each byte value refers to a particular character value according to that standard). To say that any array of bytes, regardless of what each byte value should be interpreted as, is "ASCII" makes no sense. How "relaxed" are these 'coders' you're referring to, exactly? ;) Or, have I fallen for your trap, and you're joking with me too? E.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-27 00:12 +0300 |
| Subject | Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] |
| Message-ID | <87pos8y14e.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> |
| In reply to | #109156 |
Erik <python@lucidity.plus.com>: > On 26/05/16 10:20, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: >> ASCII has taken new meanings. For most coders, in relaxed style, it >> refers to any byte-oriented character encoding scheme. In C terms, >> >> ASCII == char * > > Is this really true? So by "taken new meanings" you are saying that it > has actually lost all meaning. You are exaggerating. > The 'S' stands for "Standard". It's an encoding (each byte value refers > to a particular character value according to that standard). > > To say that any array of bytes, regardless of what each byte value > should be interpreted as, is "ASCII" makes no sense. Read what I wrote: "character encoding scheme". Even C's "char" type strongly suggests textual characters. However, I must correct myself slightly: ASCII refers to any byte-oriented character encoding scheme *largely coinciding with ASCII proper*. But since all of them *are* derivatives of ASCII proper, mentioning is somewhat redundant. Marko
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-27 13:35 +1000 |
| Subject | Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] |
| Message-ID | <5747c071$0$1593$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #109158 |
On Fri, 27 May 2016 07:12 am, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> However, I must correct myself slightly: ASCII refers to any
> byte-oriented character encoding scheme *largely coinciding with ASCII
> proper*. But since all of them *are* derivatives of ASCII proper,
> mentioning is somewhat redundant.
"All" of them?
Here is a small selection of codecs provided by Python:
py> codecs = "cp037 cp273 cp500 cp875 cp1026 cp1140 utf_16be".split()
py> for cd in codecs:
... print("ab.12".encode(cd)) # ASCII gives b'ab.12'
...
b'\x81\x82K\xf1\xf2'
b'\x81\x82K\xf1\xf2'
b'\x81\x82K\xf1\xf2'
b'\x81\x82K\xf1\xf2'
b'\x81\x82K\xf1\xf2'
b'\x81\x82K\xf1\xf2'
b'\x00a\x00b\x00.\x001\x002'
There's also at least one other double-byte character set which, as far as I
can tell, isn't supported by Python: KS X 1001, used in Korea.
Then there are the variable-width encodings which are backwards compatible
with ASCII only in the sense that text containing *only* ASCII characters
uses the same sequence of bytes as ASCII would. But being variable-width,
they cannot be treated as a simple array of bytes with a fixed 1 byte = 1
character mapping. Examples include UTF-8, UTF-7, the various Shift-JIS
encodings, EUC-JP, EUC-KR, EUC-TW, GB18030, Big5, and others.
This concept of ASCII = "all character sets", or "nearly all", or "okay,
maybe not nearly all of them, but just the important ones" is terribly
Euro-centric. The very idea would be laughable in Japan and other East
Asian countries, where Shift-JIS and Big5 still dominate.
So please, open your mind to the reality of computing outside of Europe.
ASCII-based encodings no more encompasses all of the world's natural
languages (not even the "important" ones) than "everyone is using Internet
Explorer and Windows XP, right?" describes the state of the Internet.
--
Steven
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-27 09:10 +0300 |
| Subject | Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] |
| Message-ID | <87fut4xc8w.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> |
| In reply to | #109161 |
Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info>:
> This concept of ASCII = "all character sets", or "nearly all", or
> "okay, maybe not nearly all of them, but just the important ones" is
> terribly Euro-centric. The very idea would be laughable in Japan and
> other East Asian countries, where Shift-JIS and Big5 still dominate.
Shift-JIS and Big5 are ASCII derivatives:
>>> "hello".encode("shift-JIS")
b'hello'
>>> "hello".encode("big5")
b'hello'
> So please, open your mind to the reality of computing outside of
> Europe.
ASCII derivatives are in wide use in the Americas and Antarctica as
well. They have been spotted in Australia, New Zealand, Oceania and
Africa. You shouldn't be surprized if you run into them in Asia, either.
Marko
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-27 16:47 +1000 |
| Subject | Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] |
| Message-ID | <5747ed83$0$1620$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #109163 |
On Fri, 27 May 2016 04:10 pm, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info>: >> This concept of ASCII = "all character sets", or "nearly all", or >> "okay, maybe not nearly all of them, but just the important ones" is >> terribly Euro-centric. The very idea would be laughable in Japan and >> other East Asian countries, where Shift-JIS and Big5 still dominate. > > Shift-JIS and Big5 are ASCII derivatives: Gosh. Really? If you looked at what I wrote, I said: "Then there are the variable-width encodings which are backwards compatible with ASCII *only* in the sense that text containing only ASCII characters uses the same sequence of bytes as ASCII would." and gave both Shift-JIS and Big5 as examples. But you cannot treat them as "like ASCII" or "extended ASCII" because they are multibyte encodings. Unlike UTF-8, if you mangle a Shift-JIS or Big5 multibyte sequence, you don't just corrupt a single character, you corrupt a potentially unlimited amount of subsequent text. I don't mind being corrected if I make a genuine mistake, in fact I appreciate correction. But being corrected for something I already acknowledged? That's just arguing for the sake of arguing. [...] > ASCII derivatives are in wide use in the Americas and Antarctica as > well. They have been spotted in Australia, New Zealand, Oceania and > Africa. You shouldn't be surprized if you run into them in Asia, either. Of course. But they're not *all encodings*, and while they're important, there are plenty of non-ASCII encodings and encodings which violate the "one byte equals one character" invariant followed by ASCII and extended-ASCII encodings. -- Steven
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-27 10:04 +0300 |
| Subject | Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] |
| Message-ID | <8760u0x9qu.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> |
| In reply to | #109164 |
Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info>: > I don't mind being corrected if I make a genuine mistake, in fact I > appreciate correction. But being corrected for something I already > acknowledged? That's just arguing for the sake of arguing. > [...] >> ASCII derivatives are in wide use in the Americas and Antarctica as >> well. They have been spotted in Australia, New Zealand, Oceania and >> Africa. You shouldn't be surprized if you run into them in Asia, either. > > Of course. > > But they're not *all encodings*, and while they're important, there > are plenty of non-ASCII encodings and encodings which violate the "one > byte equals one character" invariant followed by ASCII and > extended-ASCII encodings. They are all ASCII derivatives. Those that aren't don't exist. The vast majority of code pages in current use are supersets of ASCII <URL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_page#Relationship_to_ASCII> Just like a byte is always 8 bits wide, and C's integers are all two's-complement. Marko
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-27 19:56 +1000 |
| Subject | Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] |
| Message-ID | <574819d8$0$1598$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #109165 |
On Fri, 27 May 2016 05:04 pm, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > They are all ASCII derivatives. Those that aren't don't exist. *plonk* -- Steven
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-27 09:51 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] |
| Message-ID | <mailman.22.1464357086.2277.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #109167 |
On Fri, May 27, 2016, at 05:56, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Fri, 27 May 2016 05:04 pm, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > > > They are all ASCII derivatives. Those that aren't don't exist. > > *plonk* That's a bit harsh, considering that this argument started when you invented your own definition of "ASCII derivative", which he never accepted and has no obligation to accept, in order to prove that he's wrong. That's called a straw-man argument.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-27 08:53 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] |
| Message-ID | <cba2a15d-7f4e-4eb8-9ffa-1605c608bb5e@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #109173 |
On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 7:21:41 PM UTC+5:30, Random832 wrote:
> On Fri, May 27, 2016, at 05:56, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > On Fri, 27 May 2016 05:04 pm, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> >
> > > They are all ASCII derivatives. Those that aren't don't exist.
> >
> > *plonk*
>
> That's a bit harsh, considering that this argument started ...
Is it now?
For some reason I am reminded that when I was in junior school and we wanted
to fight, we said "I am not talking to you!" made a certain gesture and smartly
marched off.
I guess the gesture is culture-dependent and in these parts of the world it
sounds like "*plonk*"
Back in the adult world when pique is out of proportion to irritant we may guess
there is some politics around
And coding systems are VERY political.
Sure what characters are put in (and not) is political
But more invisible but equally political is the collating order.
eg No one understands what jmf's gripes are... My guess is that a Euro
costs 3 times a Dollar.
>>> "€".encode("UTF-8")
b'\xe2\x82\xac'
>>> "$".encode("UTF-8")
b'$'
[Its another matter that this is not the evil deed of python but of UTF-8!]
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-27 12:09 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: Exended ASCII and code pages [was Re: for / while else doesn't make sense] |
| Message-ID | <mailman.25.1464365343.2277.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #109176 |
On Fri, May 27, 2016, at 11:53, Rustom Mody wrote:
> And coding systems are VERY political.
> Sure what characters are put in (and not) is political
> But more invisible but equally political is the collating order.
>
> eg No one understands what jmf's gripes are... My guess is that a Euro
> costs 3 times a Dollar.
>
> >>> "€".encode("UTF-8")
> b'\xe2\x82\xac'
> >>> "$".encode("UTF-8")
> b'$'
>
> [Its another matter that this is not the evil deed of python but of
> UTF-8!]
AIUI jmf's issue is that python's string type (nothing to do with UTF-8)
doesn't treat all strings equally. Strings that are only in Latin-1
(including your dollar example) have only one byte per character,
whereas strings with BMP characters have two bytes per character (he
also has some more difficult to understand objections to the large fixed
overhead and the cached UTF-8 version [which ASCII strings don't have])
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-27 21:46 -0700 |
| Subject | Coding systems are political (was Exended ASCII and code pages) |
| Message-ID | <37c8a09e-f18b-44ab-8650-0146924bbb9e@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #109177 |
On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 9:39:19 PM UTC+5:30, Random832 wrote:
> On Fri, May 27, 2016, at 11:53, Rustom Mody wrote:
> > And coding systems are VERY political.
> > Sure what characters are put in (and not) is political
> > But more invisible but equally political is the collating order.
> >
> > eg No one understands what jmf's gripes are... My guess is that a Euro
> > costs 3 times a Dollar.
> >
> > >>> "€".encode("UTF-8")
> > b'\xe2\x82\xac'
> > >>> "$".encode("UTF-8")
> > b'$'
> >
> > [Its another matter that this is not the evil deed of python but of
> > UTF-8!]
>
> AIUI jmf's issue is that python's string type (nothing to do with UTF-8)
> doesn't treat all strings equally. Strings that are only in Latin-1
> (including your dollar example) have only one byte per character,
> whereas strings with BMP characters have two bytes per character (he
> also has some more difficult to understand objections to the large fixed
> overhead and the cached UTF-8 version [which ASCII strings don't have])
Yeah I know and my choice of using UTF-8 encode was probably not felicitous
Consider instead:
>>> ord('$')
36
>>> ord('€')
8364
>>> bin(ord('$'))
'0b100100'
>>> bin(ord('€'))
'0b10000010101100'
>>>
Shows that '$' costs 6 bits
whereas '€' costs 14
In idealized, simplified models like Turing models where
3 is 111
7 is 1111111
100, 8364 etc I wont try to write but you get the idea!
its quite clear that bigger numbers cost more than smaller ones
With current hardware it would seem to be a flat characteristic for everything
< 2³² (or even 2⁶⁴)
But thats only an optical illusion because after that the characteristic
will rise jaggedly, slowly but monotonically, typically log-linearly
[which AIUI is jmf's principal error]
Which also means that if the Chinese were to have more say in the design of
Unicode/ UTF-8 they would likely not waste swathes of prime real-estate
for almost never used control characters just in the name of ASCII compliance
IOW ANY coding standard makes choices that are essentially political
Unicode just happens to be (currently) politically correct
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | wxjmfauth@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-28 08:16 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Coding systems are political (was Exended ASCII and code pages) |
| Message-ID | <4948b391-d5b4-4582-a104-4315aafdb22b@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #109191 |
Le samedi 28 mai 2016 06:47:11 UTC+2, Rustom Mody a écrit : > ... > [which AIUI is jmf's principal error] > > ... I'm very confident. It's only a question of time until the rest of the world dive into this mathematical absurdity. With your math knowledge, it should not be too difficult to show it with a sheet of paper and a pencil. Hint: forget "bytes" and think "sets" and operators.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
Page 7 of 15 — ← Prev page 1 … 5 6 [7] 8 9 … 15 Next page →
Back to top | Article view | comp.lang.python
csiph-web