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Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend

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  Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend bradleybooth12345@gmail.com - 2013-11-19 10:40 -0800
    Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend maxwell34m@gmail.com - 2013-11-19 11:05 -0800
    Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Neil Cerutti <mr.cerutti@gmail.com> - 2013-11-19 14:07 -0500
    Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Gary Herron <gary.herron@islandtraining.com> - 2013-11-19 11:06 -0800
    Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend bradleybooth12345@gmail.com - 2013-11-19 11:27 -0800
      Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-11-19 20:48 +0000
        Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2013-11-20 11:38 +0000
          Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-11-23 02:03 +0000
      Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-11-19 14:51 -0800
    Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-11-20 00:17 +0000
      Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2013-11-19 22:10 -0500
        Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-11-20 03:52 +0000
          Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2013-11-20 00:54 -0500
            Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-20 09:29 +0000
              Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-20 13:57 +0000
                Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-20 14:51 +0000
                  Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-11-20 18:33 -0500
                    Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2013-11-21 15:44 +0200
                Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-20 14:49 +0000
                  Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-21 02:05 +1100
                  Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-20 15:06 +0000
                    Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-20 15:09 +0000
                      Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-21 02:14 +1100
                        Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-20 15:35 +0000
                          Multiple postings Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-20 15:36 +0000
                        Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-20 15:34 +0000
                          Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-20 16:29 +0000
                            Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-20 16:45 +0000
                            Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-11-20 09:12 -0800
                              Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-20 17:37 +0000
                                Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-11-20 09:51 -0800
                                  Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-20 18:09 +0000
                                    Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-11-20 10:18 -0800
                                      Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-20 18:35 +0000
                                        Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-11-20 11:54 -0800
                                      Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-21 07:26 +1100
                                    Off-topic: Pop culture references [was Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-11-21 00:27 +0000
                                      Re: Off-topic: Pop culture references [was Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend] MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-11-21 00:48 +0000
                                      Re: Off-topic: Pop culture references [was Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend] Tim Golden <mail@timgolden.me.uk> - 2013-11-21 09:08 +0000
                                        Re: Off-topic: Pop culture references [was Re: Newbie - Trying to   Help a Friend] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2013-11-22 17:10 +1300
                                      Re: Off-topic: Pop culture references [was Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-21 20:46 +1100
                                  Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-11-21 12:53 +0100
                                  Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-22 02:48 +1100
                                  Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Neil Cerutti <mr.cerutti@gmail.com> - 2013-11-21 11:29 -0500
                                  Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-22 04:10 +1100
                                    Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend bradleybooth12345@gmail.com - 2013-11-21 15:17 -0800
                                      Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Gary Herron <gary.herron@islandtraining.com> - 2013-11-21 15:35 -0800
                                        Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend bradleybooth12345@gmail.com - 2013-11-21 15:55 -0800
                                          Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-11-21 19:55 -0500
                                          Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Gary Herron <gary.herron@islandtraining.com> - 2013-11-21 20:17 -0800
                                      Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-11-21 19:17 -0500
                        Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-20 15:34 +0000
                  Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-20 15:06 +0000
                    Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-20 15:24 +0000
                Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-20 14:50 +0000
                Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-20 14:50 +0000
            Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-20 09:29 +0000

Page 3 of 3 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3]

#60161 — Re: Off-topic: Pop culture references [was Re: Newbie - Trying to Help a Friend]

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 8:08 PM, Tim Golden <mail@timgolden.me.uk> wrote:
> Of course, if some were to say "My name is Inigo Montoya; you killed my
> father; prepare to die"...

You killfiled my address - prepare to be ignored!

ChrisA

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#60165

Op 20-11-13 19:09, Mark Lawrence schreef:
> On 20/11/2013 17:51, Ned Batchelder wrote:
>> On Wednesday, November 20, 2013 12:37:31 PM UTC-5, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>>> On 20/11/2013 17:12, Ned Batchelder wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Nazi?  Perhaps we could stick to more appropriate analogies?
>>>>
>>>> --Ned.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's an excellent analogy that I've used before, hence the smiley.
>>> Clearly you don't do any research before bothering to say anything.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Python is the second best programming language in the world.
>>> But the best has yet to be invented.  Christian Tismer
>>>
>>> Mark Lawrence
>>
>> You think these two things make an excellent analogy?  1) a newsgroup
>> mishap being actively investigated, and 2) calculated genocide.  It is
>> not an excellent analogy, it's wildly disproportionate.
>>
>> Using a smiley doesn't fix it, and using it previously doesn't give
>> you a free pass.  What research was I supposed to have done?  Examine
>> your previous posts to see you overreacting before?  That would hardly
>> have convinced me that this was OK.
>>
>> --Ned.
>>
> 
> I suggest that you write to the BBC and get all episodes of the
> extremely popular *COMEDY* "Dad's Army" withdrawn as "typical shabby
> Nazi trick" was one of Captain Mainwearing's main lines.

Honestly? You expect people to recognize a main line from an old
television series?

> And if I want
> to overreact, I'll overreact, as I couldn't care two hoots whether I'm
> dealing with an arsehole from the Python Software Foundation or one
> who's not.

Now you sound just like Nikos.

-- 
Antoon Pardon

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#60166

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 10:53 PM, Antoon Pardon
<antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> wrote:
> Op 20-11-13 19:09, Mark Lawrence schreef:
>> I suggest that you write to the BBC and get all episodes of the
>> extremely popular *COMEDY* "Dad's Army" withdrawn as "typical shabby
>> Nazi trick" was one of Captain Mainwearing's main lines.
>
> Honestly? You expect people to recognize a main line from an old
> television series?

Well, a good British comedy does go around a long way. I have to say,
though, the shortness of the line makes it harder to recognize. Only
in the tightest of circles could one say "Bother that telephone!" and
have people understand that it's a reference to the Fat Controller
from The Railway Series (aka the Thomas the Tank Engine books). The
more quote you make, the more likely that pieces of it will be
recognized.

But as I said, all it takes is a little footnote, or something like
"... typical shabby Nazi trick, as Capt Mainwearing would say", to
make it clear. Most (all?) of us would understand that as a
joke/reference and as not offensive.

ChrisA

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#60167

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 10:48 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, a good British comedy does go around a long way. I have to say,
> though, the shortness of the line makes it harder to recognize. Only
> in the tightest of circles could one say "Bother that telephone!" and
> have people understand that it's a reference to the Fat Controller
> from The Railway Series (aka the Thomas the Tank Engine books). The
> more quote you make, the more likely that pieces of it will be
> recognized.

The best sort of reference is one you can miss completely and
still not be confused by. For example, The Borribles by De
Larrabeiti is one of my favorite books despite my knowing virtually
nothing of the back-streets of London or the (now dated) pop-culture
satire it contained.

Many of the main villains in
the book are hilarious and mean-spirited parodies of
a series of British children's literature, The Wombles,
and a British TV show, Steptoe and Son, but the characters work
fine on their own.

But even so, I agree that a footnote is a good idea. And I haven't always
lived up to that ideal, myself.

-- 
Neil Cerutti <mr.cerutti+python@gmail.com>

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#60170

On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 3:29 AM, Neil Cerutti <mr.cerutti@gmail.com> wrote:
> Many of the main villains in
> the book are hilarious and mean-spirited parodies of
> a series of British children's literature, The Wombles,
> and a British TV show, Steptoe and Son, but the characters work
> fine on their own.

Yeah, that's definitely the best way to do it. You don't need to know
The Beauty Stone to understand that Colinette, in the city of
Lenalede, is trying to get herself appointed as Lord Chief Justice on
the grounds that (she claims) the current incumbent is unfair in his
rulings. But if you _do_ know that obscure 19th century opera, you'll
know there's a line in it "And Colinette from Lenalede, who counts
herself the fairest there". (The opera has absolutely nothing to do
with justice, incidentally. Colinette is entering herself in a beauty
contest. Quite a different meaning of "fairest".)

ChrisA

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#60179

Coming back to the second question

"The collatz process is as follows. Take a positive integer n greater than 1. while n is greater than 1 repeat the following; if N is even halve it and if N is odd multiply it by 3 and add 1. The (Unsolved) collatz conjecture is that this process always terminates. 

The user should be prompted to supply the number n, and your program should build the list of values taken by sucessive iteration of the algorithm, and print it out. For example, if 7 is input your program should print the list 

[7,22,11,34,17,52,26,13,40,20,10,5,16,8,4,2,1] 

We've managed to come up with this, but obviously it's wrong. Any Idea's?

def collatz_sequence (n) :
      seq = [ ]
      if n < 1 :
         return [ ]
      while n > 1:
           if n % 2 == 0:
            n = n/2
          else:
             n = 3*n+ 1
          seq.append (n)
     return seq

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#60180

On 11/21/2013 03:17 PM, bradleybooth12345@gmail.com wrote:
> Coming back to the second question
>
> "The collatz process is as follows. Take a positive integer n greater than 1. while n is greater than 1 repeat the following; if N is even halve it and if N is odd multiply it by 3 and add 1. The (Unsolved) collatz conjecture is that this process always terminates.
>
> The user should be prompted to supply the number n, and your program should build the list of values taken by sucessive iteration of the algorithm, and print it out. For example, if 7 is input your program should print the list
>
> [7,22,11,34,17,52,26,13,40,20,10,5,16,8,4,2,1]
>
> We've managed to come up with this, but obviously it's wrong. Any Idea's?
>
> def collatz_sequence (n) :
>        seq = [ ]
>        if n < 1 :
>           return [ ]
>        while n > 1:
>             if n % 2 == 0:
>              n = n/2
>            else:
>               n = 3*n+ 1
>            seq.append (n)
>       return seq

Why  do you say it's wrong?   What does it do?   What was expected?

I see that your indentations don't match, but I can't tell if that's 
your error or an email problem.  Is that the 'obviously wrong' part?

I also see that you create an (apparently correct) function, which 
returns a nice result.  But you haven't called the function to actually 
run it with a specific value to be printed out.  Perhaps that's the  
'obviously wrong' part you refer to.

However, the function itself looks correct otherwise, although you may 
want to start the sequence off with [n] rather than [] so as to match 
the suggested output.

Gary Herron

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#60181

the problem i have is that it's just giving me the first number of the sequence not the actual sequence

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#60186

On 11/21/2013 6:55 PM, bradleybooth12345@gmail.com wrote:
> the problem i have is that it's just giving me the first number of the sequence not the actual sequence

Please show actually copy/pasted input and output.


-- 
Terry Jan Reedy

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#60201

On 11/21/2013 03:55 PM, bradleybooth12345@gmail.com wrote:
> the problem i have is that it's just giving me the first number of the sequence not the actual sequence

Not when I run it.  After correcting the indentation errors, I get the 
correct sequence *except* that it's missing the first number.

You are making it very hard to help you.  Please show us the *whole* 
session: the procedure (correctly indented please), the call of the 
procedure, the print that outputs the result and the actual printed 
result.  Also provide an explanation of why the output is not what you 
wanted.

Then perhaps we can get to the bottom of this.

Gary Herron

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#60184

On 11/21/2013 6:17 PM, bradleybooth12345@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Coming back to the second question
>
> "The collatz process is as follows. Take a positive integer n greater than 1. while n is greater than 1 repeat the following; if N is even halve it and if N is odd multiply it by 3 and add 1. The (Unsolved) collatz conjecture is that this process always terminates.

> The user should be prompted to supply the number n, and your program should build the list of values taken by sucessive iteration of the algorithm, and print it out. For example, if 7 is input your program should print the list
>
> [7,22,11,34,17,52,26,13,40,20,10,5,16,8,4,2,1]

The specification does not say what the result should be when the input 
is 1, but given the example above, [1] seems reasonable (rather than an 
exception or []). [] is ok for 0 (or negative).

> We've managed to come up with this, but obviously it's wrong.

In what way is it wrong? The answer to that tells you what to fix.
A syntax error about indentation? Fix the indentation.

 >  Any Idea's?

Write test code before writing the function.

for inn,out in [(0, []), (1, [1]), (2, [2,1]),
         (3, [3,10,5,16,8,4,2,1]),
         (7, [7,22,11,34,17,52,26,13,40,20,10,5,16,8,4,2,1]), ]:
     s = collatz(inn)
     print(inn, ':', s)
     if s != out:
         print('is not', out)

> def collatz_sequence (n) :
>        seq = [ ]

4 space indents are best; a good editor, like the one with Idle, will 
convert <tab> to 4 spaces

>        if n < 1 :
>           return [ ]
>        while n > 1:
>             if n % 2 == 0:

dedent if so it lines up with else below

>              n = n/2
>            else:
>               n = 3*n+ 1
>            seq.append (n)
>       return seq

does not line up with while

Once you get indents consistent, test failure should suggest the 
remaining error.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy

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#60099

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 02:14:12 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 2:09 AM, Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com>
> wrote:
>> must be a strange quirk of pan & turned off hide to system tray & allow
>> multiple instances.
> 
> Hmm. Hard to know, but I can imagine that having multiple instances
> MIGHT cause a problem. But if that's confirmed (maybe fire up three
> copies and then post to a test newsgroup??), I'd be reporting that as a
> bug in Pan.
> 
> ChrisA

As a quick test lets see how may times this one arrives



-- 
You can fool all the people all of the time if the advertising is right
and the budget is big enough.
		-- Joseph E. Levine

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#60093

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 14:49:59 +0000, Alister wrote:

> On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 13:57:30 +0000, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> 
>> On 20/11/2013 09:29, Alister wrote:
>>> On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 00:54:28 -0500, Dave Angel wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 20 Nov 2013 03:52:10 GMT, Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 2 does count because it isn't divisible by 3. The question states,
>>>>> "[count] how many positive integers less than N are not divisible
>>>> by 2,3
>>>>> or 5". Two is not divisible by 3, so "not divisible by 2,3 or 5" is
>>>> true,
>>>>> so two gets counted.
>>>>
>>>>> The first number which is divisible by *all* of 2, 3 and 5 (i.e.
>>>> fails
>>>>> the test, and therefore doesn't get counted) is 30. The next few
>>>> that
>>>>> fail the test are 60, 90, 120, 150, 180, 210, 240, 270, 300, ...
>>>>> Remember, these are the numbers which should not be counted.
>>>>
>>>>>> I count 1, not 6
>>>>
>>>>> Out of curiosity, which number did you count?
>>>>
>>>> 1 of course. It's the only one that's not divisible by any of the
>>>> factors.
>>>>
>>>> Apparently we disagree about precedence and associativity in English.
>>>> I believe the not applies to the result of (divisible by 2, 3, or 5),
>>>> so I'd count 1, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23. The first nonprime would be
>>>> 49.
>>>>
>>>> If I were trying to get the series you describe, I'd phrase it as
>>>>    "Not divisible by 2, and not divisible by 3, and not divisible by
>>>>    5"
>>>
>>> This ambiguity is a great example of why teachers (and enayone else
>>> responsible for specifying a programming project) should take greater
>>> care when specifying tasks.
>>> if it is to late to ask for clarification (the correct step in a real
>>> world case) I suggest you write 2 programs 1 for each interpretation,
>>> it will be good for your personal learning even if the teacher does
>>> not give any extra credit.
>>>
>>>
>> Ambiguity is the reason that some of the most expensive language
>> lessons in the world are at places like Sandhurst and West Point. 
>> Giving crystal clear orders, whether verbally or in writing, is
>> considered quite important in the military.
>> 
>> By the way, this is double posted and there were four identical
>> messages from you yesterday, finger trouble or what? :)
> 
> I don't think the problem is at my end. I am only sending once to the
> best of my knowledge (using Pan newsreader to Comp.lang.python)

Ok this is now silly
Apologies to everyone I am monitoring my network connection to confirm 
that i am not sending multiple times.
 



-- 
T-1's congested due to porn traffic to the news server.

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#60095

On 20/11/2013 15:06, Alister wrote:
>
> Ok this is now silly
> Apologies to everyone I am monitoring my network connection to confirm
> that i am not sending multiple times.
>

Still arriving multiple times, shoot the messenger? :)

-- 
Python is the second best programming language in the world.
But the best has yet to be invented.  Christian Tismer

Mark Lawrence

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#60087

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 13:57:30 +0000, Mark Lawrence wrote:

> On 20/11/2013 09:29, Alister wrote:
>> On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 00:54:28 -0500, Dave Angel wrote:
>>
>>> On 20 Nov 2013 03:52:10 GMT, Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info>
>>> wrote:
>>>> 2 does count because it isn't divisible by 3. The question states,
>>>> "[count] how many positive integers less than N are not divisible
>>> by 2,3
>>>> or 5". Two is not divisible by 3, so "not divisible by 2,3 or 5" is
>>> true,
>>>> so two gets counted.
>>>
>>>> The first number which is divisible by *all* of 2, 3 and 5 (i.e.
>>> fails
>>>> the test, and therefore doesn't get counted) is 30. The next few
>>> that
>>>> fail the test are 60, 90, 120, 150, 180, 210, 240, 270, 300, ...
>>>> Remember, these are the numbers which should not be counted.
>>>
>>>>> I count 1, not 6
>>>
>>>> Out of curiosity, which number did you count?
>>>
>>> 1 of course. It's the only one that's not divisible by any of the
>>> factors.
>>>
>>> Apparently we disagree about precedence and associativity in English.
>>> I believe the not applies to the result of (divisible by 2, 3, or 5),
>>> so I'd count 1, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23. The first nonprime would be 49.
>>>
>>> If I were trying to get the series you describe, I'd phrase it as
>>>    "Not divisible by 2, and not divisible by 3, and not divisible by
>>>    5"
>>
>> This ambiguity is a great example of why teachers (and enayone else
>> responsible for specifying a programming project) should take greater
>> care when specifying tasks.
>> if it is to late to ask for clarification (the correct step in a real
>> world case) I suggest you write 2 programs 1 for each interpretation,
>> it will be good for your personal learning even if the teacher does not
>> give any extra credit.
>>
>>
> Ambiguity is the reason that some of the most expensive language lessons
> in the world are at places like Sandhurst and West Point.  Giving
> crystal clear orders, whether verbally or in writing, is considered
> quite important in the military.
> 
> By the way, this is double posted and there were four identical messages
> from you yesterday, finger trouble or what? :)

I don't think the problem is at my end. I am only sending once to the 
best of my knowledge
(using Pan newsreader to Comp.lang.python)




-- 
Thou shalt not put policy into the kernel.

	- Al Viro on linux-kernel

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#60088

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 13:57:30 +0000, Mark Lawrence wrote:

> On 20/11/2013 09:29, Alister wrote:
>> On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 00:54:28 -0500, Dave Angel wrote:
>>
>>> On 20 Nov 2013 03:52:10 GMT, Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info>
>>> wrote:
>>>> 2 does count because it isn't divisible by 3. The question states,
>>>> "[count] how many positive integers less than N are not divisible
>>> by 2,3
>>>> or 5". Two is not divisible by 3, so "not divisible by 2,3 or 5" is
>>> true,
>>>> so two gets counted.
>>>
>>>> The first number which is divisible by *all* of 2, 3 and 5 (i.e.
>>> fails
>>>> the test, and therefore doesn't get counted) is 30. The next few
>>> that
>>>> fail the test are 60, 90, 120, 150, 180, 210, 240, 270, 300, ...
>>>> Remember, these are the numbers which should not be counted.
>>>
>>>>> I count 1, not 6
>>>
>>>> Out of curiosity, which number did you count?
>>>
>>> 1 of course. It's the only one that's not divisible by any of the
>>> factors.
>>>
>>> Apparently we disagree about precedence and associativity in English.
>>> I believe the not applies to the result of (divisible by 2, 3, or 5),
>>> so I'd count 1, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23. The first nonprime would be 49.
>>>
>>> If I were trying to get the series you describe, I'd phrase it as
>>>    "Not divisible by 2, and not divisible by 3, and not divisible by
>>>    5"
>>
>> This ambiguity is a great example of why teachers (and enayone else
>> responsible for specifying a programming project) should take greater
>> care when specifying tasks.
>> if it is to late to ask for clarification (the correct step in a real
>> world case) I suggest you write 2 programs 1 for each interpretation,
>> it will be good for your personal learning even if the teacher does not
>> give any extra credit.
>>
>>
> Ambiguity is the reason that some of the most expensive language lessons
> in the world are at places like Sandhurst and West Point.  Giving
> crystal clear orders, whether verbally or in writing, is considered
> quite important in the military.
> 
> By the way, this is double posted and there were four identical messages
> from you yesterday, finger trouble or what? :)

I don't think the problem is at my end. I am only sending once to the 
best of my knowledge
(using Pan newsreader to Comp.lang.python)




-- 
Thou shalt not put policy into the kernel.

	- Al Viro on linux-kernel

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#60066

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 00:54:28 -0500, Dave Angel wrote:

> On 20 Nov 2013 03:52:10 GMT, Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info>
> wrote:
>> 2 does count because it isn't divisible by 3. The question states,
>> "[count] how many positive integers less than N are not divisible
> by 2,3
>> or 5". Two is not divisible by 3, so "not divisible by 2,3 or 5" is
> true,
>> so two gets counted.
> 
>> The first number which is divisible by *all* of 2, 3 and 5 (i.e.
> fails
>> the test, and therefore doesn't get counted) is 30. The next few
> that
>> fail the test are 60, 90, 120, 150, 180, 210, 240, 270, 300, ...
>> Remember, these are the numbers which should not be counted.
> 
>> > I count 1, not 6
> 
>> Out of curiosity, which number did you count?
> 
> 1 of course. It's the only one that's not divisible by any of the
> factors.
> 
> Apparently we disagree about precedence and associativity in English.
> I believe the not applies to the result of (divisible by 2, 3, or 5),
> so I'd count 1, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23. The first nonprime would be 49.
> 
> If I were trying to get the series you describe, I'd phrase it as
>   "Not divisible by 2, and not divisible by 3, and not divisible by 5"

This ambiguity is a great example of why teachers (and enayone else 
responsible for specifying a programming project) should take greater 
care when specifying tasks.
if it is to late to ask for clarification (the correct step in a real 
world case) I suggest you write 2 programs 1 for each interpretation, it 
will be good for your personal learning even if the teacher does not give 
any extra credit.




-- 
I am practicing a fine point of ethics.  It is acceptable to shoot back.
It is not acceptable to shoot first.
        -- Zed Pobre

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