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Intermediate Python user needed help

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  Intermediate Python user needed help John Mordecai Dildy <jdildy85@gmail.com> - 2012-08-05 12:29 -0700
    Re: Intermediate Python user needed help John Ladasky <john_ladasky@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-08-05 12:34 -0700
    Re: Intermediate Python user needed help John Mordecai Dildy <jdildy85@gmail.com> - 2012-08-05 12:44 -0700
    Re: Intermediate Python user needed help John Mordecai Dildy <jdildy85@gmail.com> - 2012-08-05 12:51 -0700
      Re: Intermediate Python user needed help Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2012-08-05 15:09 -0500
      Re: Intermediate Python user needed help xDog Walker <thudfoo@gmail.com> - 2012-08-05 13:15 -0700
      Re: Intermediate Python user needed help Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-05 20:24 +0000
        Re: Intermediate Python user needed help John Mordecai Dildy <jdildy85@gmail.com> - 2012-08-05 13:31 -0700
    Re: Intermediate Python user needed help John Mordecai Dildy <jdildy85@gmail.com> - 2012-08-05 13:16 -0700
      Re: Intermediate Python user needed help John Mordecai Dildy <jdildy85@gmail.com> - 2012-08-05 13:17 -0700
    Re: Intermediate Python user needed help John Mordecai Dildy <jdildy85@gmail.com> - 2012-08-05 13:19 -0700
    Re: Intermediate Python user needed help John Mordecai Dildy <jdildy85@gmail.com> - 2012-08-05 13:52 -0700
      Re: Intermediate Python user needed help Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-08-05 17:01 -0400
      Re: Intermediate Python user needed help Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2012-08-05 16:03 -0500
        Re: Intermediate Python user needed help John Mordecai Dildy <jdildy85@gmail.com> - 2012-08-05 14:09 -0700
        Re: Intermediate Python user needed help Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-08-05 17:32 -0400
          Re: Intermediate Python user needed help Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-05 23:15 +0100
          Re: Intermediate Python user needed help Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2012-08-05 18:27 -0500
      Re: Intermediate Python user needed help Vlastimil Brom <vlastimil.brom@gmail.com> - 2012-08-05 23:06 +0200
      Re: Intermediate Python user needed help Zero Piraeus <schesis@gmail.com> - 2012-08-05 17:07 -0400
      Re: Intermediate Python user needed help MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2012-08-05 22:08 +0100
      Re: Intermediate Python user needed help MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2012-08-05 22:12 +0100
        Re: Intermediate Python user needed help John Mordecai Dildy <jdildy85@gmail.com> - 2012-08-05 14:14 -0700
          Re: Intermediate Python user needed help alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-08-05 19:49 -0700
        Re: Intermediate Python user needed help John Mordecai Dildy <jdildy85@gmail.com> - 2012-08-05 14:14 -0700
          Re: Intermediate Python user needed help "William R. Wing" <wrw@mac.com> (Bill Wing) - 2012-08-05 19:38 -0400
      Re: Intermediate Python user needed help Andre Ramaciotti <andre@ramaciotti.com> - 2012-08-05 18:22 -0300
        Re: Intermediate Python user needed help John Mordecai Dildy <jdildy85@gmail.com> - 2012-08-05 15:00 -0700
        Re: Intermediate Python user needed help John Mordecai Dildy <jdildy85@gmail.com> - 2012-08-05 15:00 -0700
          Re: Intermediate Python user needed help Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-05 23:17 +0100
          Re: Intermediate Python user needed help Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2012-08-05 18:19 -0500
            Re: Intermediate Python user needed help Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-08-05 19:32 -0400
              Re: Intermediate Python user needed help Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-08-05 21:15 -0400
              Re: Intermediate Python user needed help Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2012-08-05 20:27 -0500
            Re: Intermediate Python user needed help Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-06 00:42 +0000
      Re: Intermediate Python user needed help Jugurtha Hadjar <jugurtha.hadjar@gmail.com> - 2012-08-07 04:06 +0100
        Re: Intermediate Python user needed help rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-08-06 20:52 -0700
          Re: Intermediate Python user needed help Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-08-07 12:27 -0400
    Re: Intermediate Python user needed help John Mordecai Dildy <jdildy85@gmail.com> - 2012-08-05 15:39 -0700
    Re: Intermediate Python user needed help Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2012-08-06 09:05 -0700
      Re: Intermediate Python user needed help Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-07 01:16 +0000
        Re: Intermediate Python user needed help rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-08-06 20:55 -0700
    Re: Intermediate Python user needed help Alec Taylor <alec.taylor6@gmail.com> - 2012-08-07 02:13 +1000
    Re: Intermediate Python user needed help Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel@sequans.com> - 2012-08-06 19:05 +0200
    Re: Intermediate Python user needed help Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-08-06 15:22 -0400
    Re: Intermediate Python user needed help Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-08-07 07:59 +1000
    Re: Intermediate Python user needed help Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-08-06 23:39 -0400
      Re: Intermediate Python user needed help John Mordecai Dildy <jdildy85@gmail.com> - 2012-08-07 07:09 -0700
      Re: Intermediate Python user needed help John Mordecai Dildy <jdildy85@gmail.com> - 2012-08-07 07:09 -0700

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#26670

On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 09:05:50 -0700, Ethan Furman wrote:

>   These are not the errors an intermediate user would make, nor the
> questions an intermediate user would ask.  These are the errors that
> somebody who doesn't know Python would make.

> P.S.  The scale I am accustomed to is Novice -> Intermediate -> Advanced
> -> Master
> 
> Are there scales out there that would put these types of questions in
> the "intermediate" category?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect


Or to put it another way:

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/359ofp/
http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3q8648/




-- 
Steven

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#26677

On Aug 7, 6:16 am, Steven D'Aprano <steve
+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 09:05:50 -0700, Ethan Furman wrote:
> >   These are not the errors an intermediate user would make, nor the
> > questions an intermediate user would ask.  These are the errors that
> > somebody who doesn't know Python would make.
> > P.S.  The scale I am accustomed to is Novice -> Intermediate -> Advanced
> > -> Master
>
> > Are there scales out there that would put these types of questions in
> > the "intermediate" category?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

Thanks for that link -- I'd been looking for it.

>
> Or to put it another way:
>
> http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/359ofp/http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3q8648/

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#26632

On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 2:05 AM, Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> wrote:
> John Mordecai Dildy wrote:
>>
>> I am currently using python 2.6 and am not going to install the newer
>> versions of python and i am looking for people that are still using ver 2.6
>> in python to help with with the code line:
>>
>> sentence = "All good things come to those who wait."
>>
>> then im getting this error message when i dont see the problem with it:
>>
>>   File "ex26.py", line 77
>>     sentence = "All good things come to those who wait."
>>            ^
>> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
>
> John Mordecai Dildy wrote:
>> Current Problem at the moment
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "ex26.py", line 66, in <module>
>>     beans, jars, crates = secret_formula(start-point)
>> NameError: name 'start' is not defined
>>
>> anyone know how to make start defined
>
> In your subject line you state that you are an intermediate Python user.
> These are not the errors an intermediate user would make, nor the questions
> an intermediate user would ask.  These are the errors that somebody who
> doesn't know Python would make.
>
> Please do not misrepresent yourself.
+1

>
> ~Ethan~
>
> P.S.  The scale I am accustomed to is Novice -> Intermediate -> Advanced ->
> Master

What, no n00b before Novice?

:P

>
> Are there scales out there that would put these types of questions in the
> "intermediate" category?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

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#26639

Ethan Furman wrote:
>
> ~Ethan~
>
> P.S.  The scale I am accustomed to is Novice -> Intermediate -> 
> Advanced -> Master
>
> Are there scales out there that would put these types of questions in 
> the "intermediate" category?
Troll -> Novice -> Intermediate -> Advanced

Trolls are quite specific, they're able to  spread over all upper 
levels, in disguise.

:o)

JM

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#26648

On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 09:05:50 -0700, Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us>
declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:

> 
> Are there scales out there that would put these types of questions in 
> the "intermediate" category?

	"Never seen it" vs "Job Hunter Resume" <G>

{feel free to skip the rest, it's more of an autobiography}

	I always hate trying to estimate my skill level with a language.
I've been using Python -- mostly for one-of quick&dirty jobs -- since
the first edition of Programming Python. My first real program (within a
week of obtaining the book and installing Python on my Amiga) was an
outgoing SMTPd with an ARexx script as the spooler from AmigaELM (The
first outgoing SMTPd I used was from the days before "ISP Relay only",
and generated an outgoing message for each target domain, and would
connect directly to that domain -- which failed when the target had no
SMTPd to receive mail, and blocked the outgoing queue as it kept
retrying; the second program used ISP Relay BUT failed to handshake
using the addresses in CC and BCC headers [and left the BCC header line
IN the sent messages]). I've written some nasty file handling code to
populate an SQLite3 database... I've written one program using
Tkinter/PMW to allow users to select a Clearcase configuration and push
the selected NetAcquire DLLs to a collection of machines, then reboot
the machines...

	But I've never written a "decorator", or a meta-class... I
understand the impact of the GIL on threaded code (I/O bound - good, CPU
bound - bad).

	So am I beginner, intermediate, advanced, expert?

	I used to consider myself a near-expert with DEC VMS FORTRAN 77 (I'd
say VAX, but half the period was on Alpha systems too), but that was
after over 10 years using the system. After all, using the DEC I/O
extensions to patch in a double-buffered magtape handler into regular
F77 read statements has to count for something (the application had been
ported from PDP-11 Macro -- but they were dissatisfied with the long run
times; double-buffering the input tape meant the code didn't lose time
waiting for the next block of data to transfer; made a significant
speed-up).

	These days, I suspect most new Fortran is F90/F95 (or later). I'd
only had a summer assignment with F90, and at the level of the
assignment, using "modules" was just a cleaner means of declaring a
"common block" include file and a set of subroutines using that "common
block".

	Similar with C and C++... My major C development was to produce a
program that emulated the display of an obsolete Ramtek 9300 graphics
engine, using very low-level Xt/DECWindows for the user interface, and
(now practically forgotten) GKS to handle the plot data. The nature of
the plotting application(s) [a separate program was run to produce each
of the plot axis, color-coded data, and overlay notations -- something
like 80 programs in total] required an ability for the display to
"blank"/"redisplay" data and overlays under operator control; redisplay
could NOT require rerunning all the data manipulation code, hence GKS
for display list management. The C++ application (VC++) was controlling
a parallel port to emit three pseudo-RS422 balanced signals in response
to an externally applied clock signal (on one of the port input pins).

	Both rather complex applications, but neither anything that really
lets me claim "advanced" overall skills.

 
-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
        wlfraed@ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

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#26664

On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 5:22 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> So am I beginner, intermediate, advanced, expert?

I wonder would this sort of a scale help:

http://www.geekcode.com/geek.html#perl

Novice: P
Intermediate: P+ or P++
Advanced: P+++
Master: P++++

ChrisA

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#26676

On Tue, 7 Aug 2012 07:59:44 +1000, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:

> On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 5:22 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > So am I beginner, intermediate, advanced, expert?
> 
> I wonder would this sort of a scale help:
> 
> http://www.geekcode.com/geek.html#perl
> 
> Novice: P
> Intermediate: P+ or P++
> Advanced: P+++
> Master: P++++
>
	Surely we can rise above mere "pluses" and rank using "stars" (*) --
a four-star Pythoneer (or whatever the preferred term is)?

-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
        wlfraed@ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

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#26710

On Monday, August 6, 2012 11:39:45 PM UTC-4, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Aug 2012 07:59:44 +1000, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
> 
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
> 
> 
> 
> > On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 5:22 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> 
> > > So am I beginner, intermediate, advanced, expert?
> 
> > 
> 
> > I wonder would this sort of a scale help:
> 
> > 
> 
> > http://www.geekcode.com/geek.html#perl
> 
> > 
> 
> > Novice: P
> 
> > Intermediate: P+ or P++
> 
> > Advanced: P+++
> 
> > Master: P++++
> 
> >
> 
> 	Surely we can rise above mere "pluses" and rank using "stars" (*) --
> 
> a four-star Pythoneer (or whatever the preferred term is)?
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
> 
>         wlfraed@ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

No matter what level you are in python you will still make mistakes every once in a while but if your like a expert you just notice it faster

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#26713

On Monday, August 6, 2012 11:39:45 PM UTC-4, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Aug 2012 07:59:44 +1000, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
> 
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
> 
> 
> 
> > On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 5:22 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> 
> > > So am I beginner, intermediate, advanced, expert?
> 
> > 
> 
> > I wonder would this sort of a scale help:
> 
> > 
> 
> > http://www.geekcode.com/geek.html#perl
> 
> > 
> 
> > Novice: P
> 
> > Intermediate: P+ or P++
> 
> > Advanced: P+++
> 
> > Master: P++++
> 
> >
> 
> 	Surely we can rise above mere "pluses" and rank using "stars" (*) --
> 
> a four-star Pythoneer (or whatever the preferred term is)?
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
> 
>         wlfraed@ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

No matter what level you are in python you will still make mistakes every once in a while but if your like a expert you just notice it faster

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