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[newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python

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  [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Jean Dubois <jeandubois314@gmail.com> - 2012-08-04 08:49 -0700
    Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python shearichard@gmail.com - 2012-08-04 17:11 -0700
      Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Jean Dubois <jeandubois314@gmail.com> - 2012-08-05 05:38 -0700
      Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Jean Dubois <jeandubois314@gmail.com> - 2012-08-05 11:04 -0700
        Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-05 19:28 +0100
          Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Jean Dubois <jeandubois314@gmail.com> - 2012-08-06 07:56 -0700
            Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-06 17:17 +0100
              Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-07 01:12 +0000
                Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2012-08-07 11:23 +1000
                Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-07 08:49 +0100
        Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-08-05 14:39 -0400
        Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-05 19:53 +0100
        Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-08-05 18:45 -0400
          Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-05 22:51 +0000
            Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-08-05 19:12 -0400
              Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-06 00:30 +0100
              Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-06 00:27 +0000
                Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2012-08-05 17:50 -0700
                Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-06 08:48 +0100
                Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python DJC <djc@news.invalid> - 2012-08-06 11:20 +0200
              Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-08-05 20:57 -0400
            Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-06 08:43 +0100
              Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-08-06 09:16 -0400
          Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Wolfgang Strobl <news4@mystrobl.de> - 2012-08-06 08:18 +0200
    Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python dncarac@gmail.com - 2012-08-05 11:59 -0700
    Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-05 20:46 +0100
      Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-05 23:11 +0100
        Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-08-05 18:53 -0400
      Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-06 00:22 +0000
        Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-06 02:02 +0100
        Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-08-05 21:14 -0400
          Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-06 06:08 +0000
            Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-08-06 00:25 -0700
        Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-08-05 19:44 -0700
          Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-07 19:02 +0000
            Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-08-07 18:37 -0400
            Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-08-07 17:07 -0700
              Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-08 02:14 +0000
                Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-08-08 12:24 +1000
                Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-08-07 20:20 -0700
        Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-06 09:55 +0100
          Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-06 10:24 +0100
            Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-07 05:35 +0000
              Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-07 09:16 +0100
          Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-07 05:19 +0000
            Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-07 10:19 +0100
              Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2012-08-07 23:12 +1000
                Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-07 15:13 +0100
              Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-07 14:14 +0000
                Re: [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-07 15:34 +0100
                  Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-08-07 08:04 -0700
                    Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-07 18:00 +0100
                      Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-08-08 07:57 +1000
                        Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-08 10:51 +0100
                          Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-08-08 09:27 -0700
                            Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-08 17:28 +0000
                              Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-08-09 11:32 +1000
                          Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-08-08 12:42 -0400
                            Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-08 20:31 +0100
                              Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-08-08 22:59 -0400
                                Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-09 08:29 +0100
                              Geneology Packages -- WAS: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Simon Cropper <simoncropper@fossworkflowguides.com> - 2012-08-09 13:51 +1000
                                Re: Geneology Packages Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2012-08-09 14:00 +1000
      Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-08-06 05:19 -0700
        Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-06 15:27 +0100
          Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-08-06 09:34 -0700
            Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-08-07 08:44 +1000
        OT probably but still relevant (was Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python) lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-06 17:23 +0100
          Re: OT probably but still relevant (was Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-07 09:44 +0000
            Re: OT probably but still relevant (was Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python) lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-07 11:23 +0100

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#26490 — [newbie] Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python

I'm looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming
with Python. I am looking for an introduction which only refers to
Python. I have seen introductions where the authors make comparisons
to other languages such as C++ and Java, but as I don't know these
languages that doesn't help me further much, it rather confuses me. I
also found an introduction in which the author started by telling that
"object oriented programming is weird", such a statement did stop me
reading further as I think an author should at least believe in the
topic he is going to present as being logical.
If someone here has a link or title to such an intro, I'd appreciate
that very much

regards,
Jean
p.s. People who don't like my style of asking questions, please
neglect this message

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#26514

One reason you may be having difficulty is that unlike some languages (C++/Java) object-orientation is not a be all and end all in Python, in fact you could work with Python for a long time without really 'doing it' at all (well other than calling methods/properties on existing API's). Having said that here's what I would suggest ...

Could do worse than this :

http://www.diveintopython.net/object_oriented_framework/index.html

and this 

http://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html

read together.

Judging by your question this is a probably a little advanced for now but you could bookmark it for the future: 

http://www.catonmat.net/blog/learning-python-design-patterns-through-video-lectures/

Here's the corresponding PDF to go with the video:

http://assets.en.oreilly.com/1/event/45/Practical%20Python%20Patterns%20Presentation.pdf

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#26531 — Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python

On 5 aug, 02:11, shearich...@gmail.com wrote:
> One reason you may be having difficulty is that unlike some languages (C++/Java) object-orientation is not a be all and end all in Python, in fact you could work with Python for a long time without really 'doing it' at all (well other than calling methods/properties on existing API's). Having said that here's what I would suggest ...
>
> Could do worse than this :
>
> http://www.diveintopython.net/object_oriented_framework/index.html
>
> and this
>
> http://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html
>
> read together.
>
> Judging by your question this is a probably a little advanced for now but you could bookmark it for the future:
>
> http://www.catonmat.net/blog/learning-python-design-patterns-through-...
>
> Here's the corresponding PDF to go with the video:
>
> http://assets.en.oreilly.com/1/event/45/Practical%20Python%20Patterns...

Thanks a lot for this information, I'll check it out the following
days

best regards,
Jean

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#26540 — Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python

On 5 aug, 02:11, shearich...@gmail.com wrote:
> One reason you may be having difficulty is that unlike some languages (C++/Java) object-orientation is not a be all and end all in Python, in fact you could work with Python for a long time without really 'doing it' at all (well other than calling methods/properties on existing API's). Having said that here's what I would suggest ...
>
> Could do worse than this :
>
> http://www.diveintopython.net/object_oriented_framework/index.html
>
This example seems to tell you need the concept of dictionaries to
explain object oriented programming, is this really necessary?
> and this
>
> http://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html
Unfortunately, the trouble with this explanation is exactly what made
me ask the original question: it starts from concepts in c++ making it
very hard to understand for someone who does not know that language
already.
>
> read together.
>
> Judging by your question this is a probably a little advanced for now but you could bookmark it for the future:
>
> http://www.catonmat.net/blog/learning-python-design-patterns-through-...
>
> Here's the corresponding PDF to go with the video:
>
> http://assets.en.oreilly.com/1/event/45/Practical%20Python%20Patterns...
Can someone here on this list give a trivial example of what object
oriented programming is, using only Python?

thanks in advance
Jean

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#26542 — Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python

On 05/08/2012 19:04, Jean Dubois wrote:
> On 5 aug, 02:11, shearich...@gmail.com wrote:
>> One reason you may be having difficulty is that unlike some languages (C++/Java) object-orientation is not a be all and end all in Python, in fact you could work with Python for a long time without really 'doing it' at all (well other than calling methods/properties on existing API's). Having said that here's what I would suggest ...
>>
>> Could do worse than this :
>>
>> http://www.diveintopython.net/object_oriented_framework/index.html
>>
> This example seems to tell you need the concept of dictionaries to
> explain object oriented programming, is this really necessary?
>> and this
>>
>> http://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html
> Unfortunately, the trouble with this explanation is exactly what made
> me ask the original question: it starts from concepts in c++ making it
> very hard to understand for someone who does not know that language
> already.
>>
>> read together.
>>
>> Judging by your question this is a probably a little advanced for now but you could bookmark it for the future:
>>
>> http://www.catonmat.net/blog/learning-python-design-patterns-through-...
>>
>> Here's the corresponding PDF to go with the video:
>>
>> http://assets.en.oreilly.com/1/event/45/Practical%20Python%20Patterns...
> Can someone here on this list give a trivial example of what object
> oriented programming is, using only Python?
>
> thanks in advance
> Jean
>

Try this http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles/OOP.shtml ???

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.

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#26623 — Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python

On 5 aug, 20:28, Mark Lawrence <breamore...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 05/08/2012 19:04, Jean Dubois wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 5 aug, 02:11, shearich...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> One reason you may be having difficulty is that unlike some languages (C++/Java) object-orientation is not a be all and end all in Python, in fact you could work with Python for a long time without really 'doing it' at all (well other than calling methods/properties on existing API's). Having said that here's what I would suggest ...
>
> >> Could do worse than this :
>
> >>http://www.diveintopython.net/object_oriented_framework/index.html
>
> > This example seems to tell you need the concept of dictionaries to
> > explain object oriented programming, is this really necessary?
> >> and this
>
> >>http://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html
> > Unfortunately, the trouble with this explanation is exactly what made
> > me ask the original question: it starts from concepts in c++ making it
> > very hard to understand for someone who does not know that language
> > already.
>
> >> read together.
>
> >> Judging by your question this is a probably a little advanced for now but you could bookmark it for the future:
>
> >>http://www.catonmat.net/blog/learning-python-design-patterns-through-...
>
> >> Here's the corresponding PDF to go with the video:
>
> >>http://assets.en.oreilly.com/1/event/45/Practical%20Python%20Patterns...
> > Can someone here on this list give a trivial example of what object
> > oriented programming is, using only Python?
>
> > thanks in advance
> > Jean
>
> Try thishttp://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles/OOP.shtml???
>
> --
> Cheers.
>
> Mark Lawrence.
Thanks, this one is a lot better. Could you just tell me what the use
is of the following lines:
"""Class docstring."""
"""Method docstring."""
"""Method docstring."""
Taken from the following code fragment (I really want to understand
every bit of code, and the author doesn't mention this)


class OurClass(object):
    """Class docstring."""

    def __init__(self, arg1, arg2):
        """Method docstring."""
        self.arg1 = arg1
        self.arg2 = arg2

    def printargs(self):
        """Method docstring."""
        print self.arg1
        print self.arg2



thanks in advance
jean

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#26633 — Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python

Please see my comment at the bottom hint hint :)

On 06/08/2012 16:38, Ramchandra Apte wrote:
> Its a docstring - it documents the function/class
> Did you know that docstrings can be used for testing - look at the doctest
> standard library module!
> try:
>
> class A:
>      def method(self):
>          '''Sample method
> This method does the difficult task X.
> Call this method with no arguments.'''#docstring
>          pass
>
> then type :
>
> help(A.method)
>
> And viola!
> On 6 August 2012 20:26, Jean Dubois <jeandubois314@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 5 aug, 20:28, Mark Lawrence <breamore...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 05/08/2012 19:04, Jean Dubois wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 5 aug, 02:11, shearich...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> One reason you may be having difficulty is that unlike some languages
>> (C++/Java) object-orientation is not a be all and end all in Python, in
>> fact you could work with Python for a long time without really 'doing it'
>> at all (well other than calling methods/properties on existing API's).
>> Having said that here's what I would suggest ...
>>>
>>>>> Could do worse than this :
>>>
>>>>> http://www.diveintopython.net/object_oriented_framework/index.html
>>>
>>>> This example seems to tell you need the concept of dictionaries to
>>>> explain object oriented programming, is this really necessary?
>>>>> and this
>>>
>>>>> http://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html
>>>> Unfortunately, the trouble with this explanation is exactly what made
>>>> me ask the original question: it starts from concepts in c++ making it
>>>> very hard to understand for someone who does not know that language
>>>> already.
>>>
>>>>> read together.
>>>
>>>>> Judging by your question this is a probably a little advanced for now
>> but you could bookmark it for the future:
>>>
>>>>> http://www.catonmat.net/blog/learning-python-design-patterns-through-.
>> ..
>>>
>>>>> Here's the corresponding PDF to go with the video:
>>>
>>>>> http://assets.en.oreilly.com/1/event/45/Practical%20Python%20Patterns.
>> ..
>>>> Can someone here on this list give a trivial example of what object
>>>> oriented programming is, using only Python?
>>>
>>>> thanks in advance
>>>> Jean
>>>
>>> Try thishttp://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles/OOP.shtml???
>>>
>>> --
>>> Cheers.
>>>
>>> Mark Lawrence.
>> Thanks, this one is a lot better. Could you just tell me what the use
>> is of the following lines:
>> """Class docstring."""
>> """Method docstring."""
>> """Method docstring."""
>> Taken from the following code fragment (I really want to understand
>> every bit of code, and the author doesn't mention this)
>>
>>
>> class OurClass(object):
>>      """Class docstring."""
>>
>>      def __init__(self, arg1, arg2):
>>          """Method docstring."""
>>          self.arg1 = arg1
>>          self.arg2 = arg2
>>
>>      def printargs(self):
>>          """Method docstring."""
>>          print self.arg1
>>          print self.arg2
>>
>>
>>
>> thanks in advance
>> jean
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>
>
>

Ramchandra Apte will you please stop top posting.  In your native 
language you may well but from bottom to top, but this news group 
prefers reading top to bottom :)  Thanks.

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.

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#26669 — Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python

On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 17:17:33 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote:

> Please see my comment at the bottom hint hint :)

Please trim unnecessary quoted text. 

We don't need to see the entire thread of comment/reply/reply-to-reply 
duplicated in *every* email.


-- 
Steven

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#26671 — Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python

Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> writes:

> Please trim unnecessary quoted text. 
>
> We don't need to see the entire thread of comment/reply/reply-to-reply 
> duplicated in *every* email.

s/every/any/

-- 
 \       “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; |
  `\     but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.” —Donald |
_o__)                                             Robert Perry Marquis |
Ben Finney

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#26690 — Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python

On 07/08/2012 02:12, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 17:17:33 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>
>> Please see my comment at the bottom hint hint :)
>
> Please trim unnecessary quoted text.
>
> We don't need to see the entire thread of comment/reply/reply-to-reply
> duplicated in *every* email.
>
>

Point taken, sorry.

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.

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#26544 — Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python

In article 
<8f1b60a5-0411-4aae-9ee6-0025b493ca2d@m13g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>,
 Jean Dubois <jeandubois314@gmail.com> wrote:

> Can someone here on this list give a trivial example of what object
> oriented programming is, using only Python?

OOP seems to mean different things to different people.  What OOP means 
to you is usually a strong function of whatever OOP language you learned 
first.  That being said, I think the fundamental, universal, core 
principle of OOP is that an object contains some data, and some code 
that knows how to do something with that data.

So, to give you a simple (but real-life) example, the system I'm working 
in now has User objects.  A user is a pretty complicated class, but 
here's some simple methods from it:

    def __eq__(self, other):
        return isinstance(other, (User, AnonymousUser)) \
          and self.user_id == other.user_id

    def __unicode__(self):
        return self.username

    def __repr__(self):
        return '<User %d: %r>' % (self.user_id, self.username)

This defines a few basic behaviors for User objects.

First, it defines how to tell if something is equal to a given User 
object.  The something must itself be a User (ignore the minor 
complication about AnonymousUser for the moment), and it must have the 
same user_id as this one.  I could easily imagine lots of other possible 
ways two users could be considered equal (same username, for example), 
but we're using user_id.  This means I can write:

   if user1 == user2:
      print "they're the same"

and I don't have to worry about (or even know about) the details.  In 
fact, sometime long after I've written that code, somebody could define 
some new kind of HighSecurityUser which tests for equality by comparing 
the scanned retina images for both of them.  My code wouldn't have to 
change; it would magically just start enforcing retina matching.

Likewise, I can write:

   print user

or

   logger.warning("%r did something interesting", user)

and I don't have to know anything about how to print a User.  The User 
knows how to print itself.

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#26545 — Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python

On 05/08/2012 19:43, Ifthikhan Nazeem wrote:
[top posting fixed]
>
> On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 8:28 PM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk>wrote:
>
>> On 05/08/2012 19:04, Jean Dubois wrote:
>>
>>> On 5 aug, 02:11, shearich...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> One reason you may be having difficulty is that unlike some languages
>>>> (C++/Java) object-orientation is not a be all and end all in Python, in
>>>> fact you could work with Python for a long time without really 'doing it'
>>>> at all (well other than calling methods/properties on existing API's).
>>>> Having said that here's what I would suggest ...
>>>>
>>>> Could do worse than this :
>>>>
>>>> http://www.diveintopython.net/**object_oriented_framework/**index.html<http://www.diveintopython.net/object_oriented_framework/index.html>
>>>>
>>>>   This example seems to tell you need the concept of dictionaries to
>>> explain object oriented programming, is this really necessary?
>>>
>>>> and this
>>>>
>>>> http://docs.python.org/**tutorial/classes.html<http://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html>
>>>>
>>> Unfortunately, the trouble with this explanation is exactly what made
>>> me ask the original question: it starts from concepts in c++ making it
>>> very hard to understand for someone who does not know that language
>>> already.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> read together.
>>>>
>>>> Judging by your question this is a probably a little advanced for now
>>>> but you could bookmark it for the future:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.catonmat.net/blog/**learning-python-design-**
>>>> patterns-through-.<http://www.catonmat.net/blog/learning-python-design-patterns-through-.>
>>>> ..
>>>>
>>>> Here's the corresponding PDF to go with the video:
>>>>
>>>> http://assets.en.oreilly.com/**1/event/45/Practical%20Python%**
>>>> 20Patterns.<http://assets.en.oreilly.com/1/event/45/Practical%20Python%20Patterns.>
>>>> ..
>>>>
>>> Can someone here on this list give a trivial example of what object
>>> oriented programming is, using only Python?
>>>
>>> thanks in advance
>>> Jean
>>>
>>>
>> Try this http://www.voidspace.org.uk/**python/articles/OOP.shtml<http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles/OOP.shtml>???
>>
>> --
>> Cheers.
>>
>> Mark Lawrence.
>>
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/python-list<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>
>>
>
> I would recommend Bruce Eckel's Thining in Python. Check it out here
> http://www.mindview.net/Books/TIPython/
>
>

I'd forgotten about that so thanks for the reminder.

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.

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#26577 — Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python

On Sun, 5 Aug 2012 11:04:36 -0700 (PDT), Jean Dubois
<jeandubois314@gmail.com> declaimed the following in
gmane.comp.python.general:

> Unfortunately, the trouble with this explanation is exactly what made
> me ask the original question: it starts from concepts in c++ making it
> very hard to understand for someone who does not know that language
> already.

	Then maybe you are asking the wrong question...

	Don't look for Object-Oriented Programming -- since the first widely
popular OOP language was C++ (Smalltalk was earlier, but rather
specialized, whereas C++ started as a preprocessor for C).

	Rather look for Object-Oriented Analysis and Design (OOAD). An OOAD
textbook /should/ be language neutral and, these days, likely using the
constructs/notation of UML [which derived from a merger of two or three
separate proposals for OOAD tools]

	An OOAD text should cover, besides Classes, Use Cases, state
diagrams, and lots of other things...

	The short view of a Class is that it is a means of encapsulating the
methods (functions/operations) of an object along with the attributes
(data) of a specific instance of the class.

	A Radio Class would define methods to change the volume, power
state, tuning, and band. These methods are common to all radios. But an
instance of a radio doesn't share its volume level with all other
instances of the Radio class.


	OOP is more a style/philosophy of programming by using "objects".
Ada 95 is an OOP language but didn't have the
"object.method(parameters)" syntax (one had to use "method(object,
parameters", but the language could determine which of similar named
methods was meant based upon the type of "object" and the types of the
parameters).
-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
        wlfraed@ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

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#26579 — Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python

On Sun, 05 Aug 2012 18:45:47 -0400, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> Don't look for Object-Oriented Programming -- since the first widely
> popular OOP language was C++ (Smalltalk was earlier, but rather
> specialized, whereas C++ started as a preprocessor for C).
> 
> Rather look for Object-Oriented Analysis and Design (OOAD). An OOAD
> textbook /should/ be language neutral and, these days, likely using the
> constructs/notation of UML [which derived from a merger of two or three
> separate proposals for OOAD tools]

Good lord. I'd rather read C++ than UML.  And I can't read C++.



-- 
Steven

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#26580 — Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python

In article <501ef904$0$29867$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>,
 Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:

> On Sun, 05 Aug 2012 18:45:47 -0400, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> 
> > Don't look for Object-Oriented Programming -- since the first widely
> > popular OOP language was C++ (Smalltalk was earlier, but rather
> > specialized, whereas C++ started as a preprocessor for C).
> > 
> > Rather look for Object-Oriented Analysis and Design (OOAD). An OOAD
> > textbook /should/ be language neutral and, these days, likely using the
> > constructs/notation of UML [which derived from a merger of two or three
> > separate proposals for OOAD tools]
> 
> Good lord. I'd rather read C++ than UML.  And I can't read C++.

UML is under-rated.  I certainly don't have any love of the 47 different 
flavors of diagram, but the basic idea of having a common graphical 
language for describing how objects and classes interact is pretty 
useful.  Just don't ask me to remember which kind of arrowhead I'm 
supposed to use in which situation.

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#26583 — Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python

On 06/08/2012 00:12, Roy Smith wrote:
> In article <501ef904$0$29867$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>,
>   Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 05 Aug 2012 18:45:47 -0400, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>>
>>> Don't look for Object-Oriented Programming -- since the first widely
>>> popular OOP language was C++ (Smalltalk was earlier, but rather
>>> specialized, whereas C++ started as a preprocessor for C).
>>>
>>> Rather look for Object-Oriented Analysis and Design (OOAD). An OOAD
>>> textbook /should/ be language neutral and, these days, likely using the
>>> constructs/notation of UML [which derived from a merger of two or three
>>> separate proposals for OOAD tools]
>>
>> Good lord. I'd rather read C++ than UML.  And I can't read C++.
>
> UML is under-rated.  I certainly don't have any love of the 47 different
> flavors of diagram, but the basic idea of having a common graphical
> language for describing how objects and classes interact is pretty
> useful.  Just don't ask me to remember which kind of arrowhead I'm
> supposed to use in which situation.
>

Ask nicely and I'll lend you my copy of Martin Fowler's UML Distilled 
which covers "version 1.2 OMG UML standard".  What's it up to now, 
version 17.38?

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.

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#26588 — Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python

On Sun, 05 Aug 2012 19:12:35 -0400, Roy Smith wrote:

>> Good lord. I'd rather read C++ than UML.  And I can't read C++.
> 
> UML is under-rated.  I certainly don't have any love of the 47 different
> flavors of diagram, but the basic idea of having a common graphical
> language for describing how objects and classes interact is pretty
> useful.  Just don't ask me to remember which kind of arrowhead I'm
> supposed to use in which situation.


I frequently draw diagrams to understand the relationships between my 
classes and the problem I am trying to solve. I almost invariably use one 
type of box and one type of arrowhead. Sometimes if I'm bored I draw 
doodles on the diagram. If only I could remember to be consistent about 
what doodle I draw where, I too could be an UML guru.


-- 
Steven

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#26591 — Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python

On 2012-08-06 at 00:27:43 +0000,
Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:

> I frequently draw diagrams to understand the relationships between my 
> classes and the problem I am trying to solve. I almost invariably use one 
> type of box and one type of arrowhead. Sometimes if I'm bored I draw 
> doodles on the diagram. If only I could remember to be consistent about 
> what doodle I draw where, I too could be an UML guru.

+1

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#26614 — Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python

On 06/08/12 01:27, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Aug 2012 19:12:35 -0400, Roy Smith wrote:
>
>>> Good lord. I'd rather read C++ than UML.  And I can't read C++.
>>
>> UML is under-rated.  I certainly don't have any love of the 47 different
>> flavors of diagram, but the basic idea of having a common graphical
>> language for describing how objects and classes interact is pretty
>> useful.  Just don't ask me to remember which kind of arrowhead I'm
>> supposed to use in which situation.
>
>
> I frequently draw diagrams to understand the relationships between my
> classes and the problem I am trying to solve. I almost invariably use one
> type of box and one type of arrowhead. Sometimes if I'm bored I draw
> doodles on the diagram. If only I could remember to be consistent about
> what doodle I draw where, I too could be an UML guru.
>

Yea, it can be tricky. But if you persevere you will gain enlightenment.
It does take a bit of application though.

lipska

-- 
Lipska the Kat: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer
and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun

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#26616 — Re: Looking for a good introduction to object oriented programming with Python

On 06/08/12 02:27, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Aug 2012 19:12:35 -0400, Roy Smith wrote:
>
>>> Good lord. I'd rather read C++ than UML.  And I can't read C++.
>>
>> UML is under-rated.  I certainly don't have any love of the 47 different
>> flavors of diagram, but the basic idea of having a common graphical
>> language for describing how objects and classes interact is pretty
>> useful.  Just don't ask me to remember which kind of arrowhead I'm
>> supposed to use in which situation.
>
>
> I frequently draw diagrams to understand the relationships between my
> classes and the problem I am trying to solve. I almost invariably use one
> type of box and one type of arrowhead. Sometimes if I'm bored I draw
> doodles on the diagram. If only I could remember to be consistent about
> what doodle I draw where, I too could be an UML guru.
>
>
Flow Charts redux

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