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Automation

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  Automation Renato Barbosa Pim Pereira <renato.barbosa.pim.pereira@gmail.com> - 2013-11-03 14:19 -0200
    Re: Automation Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-11-03 23:32 +0000
      Re: Automation Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-11-04 11:39 +0000
      Re: Automation Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-11-13 20:18 -0800
    Re: Automation rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-11-03 20:25 -0800
    Re: Automation renato.barbosa.pim.pereira@gmail.com - 2013-11-13 19:56 -0800
      Re: Automation Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-14 17:10 +0000
        Re: Automation Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-14 20:03 +0000
          Re: Automation Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-15 10:04 +1100
          Re: Automation Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-11-15 06:25 +0000
            Re: Automation Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-11-15 16:53 +0000
              Re: Automation Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-15 20:12 +0000
                Re: Automation Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-15 20:45 +0000
                  Re: Automation Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-11-19 01:53 -0700
                    Re: Automation Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-11-20 16:12 +0000
                  Re: Automation Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-19 20:26 +1100
                  Re: Automation Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-11-19 02:37 -0700
                  Re: Automation Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-19 09:44 +0000
                  Re: Automation Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-19 09:54 +0000
                  Re: Automation Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-19 21:48 +1100
                    Re: Automation Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-11-20 16:14 +0000
                      Re: Automation Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-21 03:19 +1100
                      Re: Automation Tim Golden <mail@timgolden.me.uk> - 2013-11-20 16:28 +0000
                      Re: Automation Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-21 03:33 +1100
                      Re: Automation Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> - 2013-11-20 16:59 +0000
                        Re: Automation Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-11-20 21:34 +0000
                    Re: Automation Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-11-20 17:58 -0500
                      Off-topic: Aussie place names [was Re: Automation] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-11-21 00:58 +0000
                        Re: Off-topic: Aussie place names [was Re: Automation] Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-11-20 22:22 -0500
                        Re: Off-topic: Aussie place names [was Re: Automation] Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2013-11-21 12:18 +1100
                  Re: Automation Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-19 21:50 +1100
                  Re: Automation Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-19 13:50 +0000
                  Re: Automation Tim Golden <mail@timgolden.me.uk> - 2013-11-19 13:55 +0000
                  Re: Automation Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-19 14:07 +0000
                  Re: Automation Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-20 01:08 +1100
                Re: Automation Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> - 2013-11-19 11:53 +0000
                  Re: Automation Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-19 22:58 +1100
                    Re: Automation Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-19 12:36 +0000
                      Re: Automation Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-19 23:52 +1100
                        Re: Automation Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-19 13:00 +0000
                        Re: Automation Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-19 12:59 +0000
                        Re: Automation Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-19 12:59 +0000
                          Re: Automation MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-11-19 15:06 +0000
                          Re: Automation Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-20 02:11 +1100
                          Re: Automation Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-21 02:44 +1100
                        Re: Automation Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-19 13:00 +0000
                      Re: Automation Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-21 01:52 +1100
        Re: Automation Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-11-15 06:44 +0000
          Re: Automation Paul Rudin <paul.nospam@rudin.co.uk> - 2013-11-15 07:30 +0000
            Re: Automation Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-11-15 15:02 +0000
              Re: Automation Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-16 02:12 +1100
                Re: Automation Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-15 15:52 +0000
              Re: Automation Larry Hudson <orgnut@yahoo.com> - 2013-11-15 22:17 -0800
                Re: Automation William Ray Wing <wrw@mac.com> - 2013-11-16 09:18 -0500
                  Re: Automation Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-11-16 10:11 -0500
                    grammar (was Re: Automation) Paul Smith <paul@mad-scientist.net> - 2013-11-16 12:02 -0500
                    Re: grammar (was Re: Automation) Andrew Berg <robotsondrugs@gmail.com> - 2013-11-16 21:44 -0600
                    Re: grammar (was Re: Automation) MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-11-17 04:07 +0000
                    Re: grammar (was Re: Automation) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-17 15:16 +1100
                    Re: grammar (was Re: Automation) Andrew Berg <robotsondrugs@gmail.com> - 2013-11-16 22:34 -0600
                    Re: grammar (was Re: Automation) Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-11-17 12:48 -0500
                    Re: grammar (was Re: Automation) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-19 04:13 +0000
                Re: Automation Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-11-18 12:17 +0000
                  Re: Automation Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2013-11-19 19:23 +1300
                    Re: Automation Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-11-19 07:09 +0000
                Re: Automation Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-11-18 16:49 +0000
                  Re: Automation David Robinow <drobinow@gmail.com> - 2013-11-18 22:54 -0500
          Re: Automation Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-15 14:23 +0000
          Re: Automation Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-11-15 18:54 -0500
        Re: Automation Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-11-15 14:58 +0000
          Re: Automation xDog Walker <thudfoo@gmail.com> - 2013-11-15 13:43 -0800
          Re: Automation Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2013-11-15 19:28 -0600
          Re: Automation Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-11-15 21:01 -0500
          Re: Automation Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-16 11:42 +0000

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#59987

On Tue, 19 Nov 2013 23:52:09 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 11:36 PM, Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com>
> wrote:
>> the language & nationality is Scottish, the people are Scots & Scotch
>> is a type of whisky.
> 
> Hmm, I don't know that it's that clear-cut (other than the drink).
> Derrick McClure is himself a Scot, and he posted this on Savoynet:
> 
> https://mailman.bridgewater.edu/pipermail/savoynet/2013-
August/030264.html
> 
> Note his use of "Scots" to mean the language. Derrick, I'm cc'ing you in
> on this: have I been led astray here by misreading your post?
> 
> ChrisA

To be pedantic the language most Scots speak is English (or at least an 
approximation there of)



-- 
Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.

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#59988

On Tue, 19 Nov 2013 23:52:09 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 11:36 PM, Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com>
> wrote:
>> the language & nationality is Scottish, the people are Scots & Scotch
>> is a type of whisky.
> 
> Hmm, I don't know that it's that clear-cut (other than the drink).
> Derrick McClure is himself a Scot, and he posted this on Savoynet:
> 
> https://mailman.bridgewater.edu/pipermail/savoynet/2013-
August/030264.html
> 
> Note his use of "Scots" to mean the language. Derrick, I'm cc'ing you in
> on this: have I been led astray here by misreading your post?
> 
> ChrisA

To be pedantic the language most Scots speak is English (or at least an 
approximation there of)



-- 
Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.

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#59998

On 19/11/2013 12:59, Alister wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Nov 2013 23:52:09 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 11:36 PM, Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com>
>> wrote:
>>> the language & nationality is Scottish, the people are Scots & Scotch
>>> is a type of whisky.
>>
>> Hmm, I don't know that it's that clear-cut (other than the drink).
>> Derrick McClure is himself a Scot, and he posted this on Savoynet:
>>
>> https://mailman.bridgewater.edu/pipermail/savoynet/2013-
> August/030264.html
>>
>> Note his use of "Scots" to mean the language. Derrick, I'm cc'ing you in
>> on this: have I been led astray here by misreading your post?
>>
>> ChrisA
>
> To be pedantic the language most Scots speak is English (or at least an
> approximation there of)
>
You need to distinguish between "Scottish English" and "Scots", the
latter being related to English, but isn't English, much as Danish is
related to Swedish, but isn't Swedish.

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#59999

On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 2:06 AM, MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> You need to distinguish between "Scottish English" and "Scots", the
> latter being related to English, but isn't English, much as Danish is
> related to Swedish, but isn't Swedish.

Ah. When I referred to a "Scots" word, I was talking about the Gaelic
language, which has a number of delightfully expressive terms just
waiting to be borrowed!

ChrisA

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#60100

On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 2:11 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 2:06 AM, MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
>> You need to distinguish between "Scottish English" and "Scots", the
>> latter being related to English, but isn't English, much as Danish is
>> related to Swedish, but isn't Swedish.
>
> Ah. When I referred to a "Scots" word, I was talking about the Gaelic
> language, which has a number of delightfully expressive terms just
> waiting to be borrowed!

By the way: I've since been corrected, and what I meant was not
actually the Scottish Gaelic language but the one that is actually
referred to as "Scots". My clarification was unhelpfully unclear, and
I apologize.

ChrisA

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#59989

On Tue, 19 Nov 2013 23:52:09 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 11:36 PM, Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com>
> wrote:
>> the language & nationality is Scottish, the people are Scots & Scotch
>> is a type of whisky.
> 
> Hmm, I don't know that it's that clear-cut (other than the drink).
> Derrick McClure is himself a Scot, and he posted this on Savoynet:
> 
> https://mailman.bridgewater.edu/pipermail/savoynet/2013-
August/030264.html
> 
> Note his use of "Scots" to mean the language. Derrick, I'm cc'ing you in
> on this: have I been led astray here by misreading your post?
> 
> ChrisA

To be pedantic the language most Scots speak is English (or at least an 
approximation there of)



-- 
Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.

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#60085

Here's a response from a full-blooded Scot on the subject.

On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 8:29 PM, Derrick McCLURE <j.d.mcclure@virgin.net> wrote:
> No, Chris, you haven't been led astray.  The language is referred to as
> Scots, not Scottish.  There is an academic journal called Scottish Language,
> which I edited for many years, but the meaning of that is "language in
> Scotland" - it publishes articles on Scots, Gaelic, and English as used in
> Scotland.

So there you are. Your piece of random linguistics trivia for the day. :)

Enjoy!

ChrisA

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#59503

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 17:10:02 +0000, Mark Lawrence wrote:

> On 14/11/2013 03:56, renato.barbosa.pim.pereira@gmail.com wrote:
>> I apologize again for my bad english and any inconvenience that I have
>> generated.
>>
>>
> I do wish that people would stop apologising for poor English, it's an
> extremely difficult language.  IIRC there are eight different ways of
> pronouncing the vowel combination au.  Whatever happened to "There
> should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it."? :)

Words like "sorry", "pardon me", etc. are the social grease to smooth out 
interactions between people. Instead, I read such apologies as a flag 
that we ought to make allowances for any grammatical or spelling errors 
they may make, rather than to interpret them as signs of laziness or 
stupidity.

I'm inclined to forgive nearly any language error from somebody who is 
trying their best to communicate, while people who merely cannot be 
bothered to use language which is at least an approximation to 
grammatically correct, syntactically valid, correctly-spelled sentences 
inspire similar apathy in me. If they can't be bothered to write as well 
as they are capable of, I can't be bothered to answer their questions.

A few minor errors is one thing, but when you see people whose posts are 
full of error after error and an apparent inability to get English syntax 
right, you have to wonder how on earth they expect to be a programmer? 
Compilers are even less forgiving of errors than is my wife, and she once 
kicked a man to death for using a colon where a semi-colon was required. 
(Only joking. He didn't actually die.)

This doesn't apply to people who gave some sort of sign that they're 
doing the best that they can, whether it is due to inexperience, 
dyslexia, being Foreign *wink*, or even broken keyboard. ("Nw kyboard is 
on ordr, pls xcus my lack of lttr aftr D and b4 F.")

But it does amuse me when non-native English speakers apologise, then 
write a post which is better written, more clear, and far more articulate 
than the native English speakers :-)


-- 
Steven

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#59504

Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> writes:

> A few minor errors is one thing, but when you see people whose posts are 
> full of error after error and an apparent inability to get English syntax 
> right, you have to wonder how on earth they expect to be a programmer? 

The irritating thing is apparent lack of care. A post is written once
and will be seen (perhaps not read) by many people. People post with the
intention of others reading their words. If they can't be bothered to
take a little care in writing, why should we spend time reading?

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#59530

On 2013-11-15, Paul Rudin <paul.nospam@rudin.co.uk> wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> writes:
>
>> A few minor errors is one thing, but when you see people whose posts are 
>> full of error after error and an apparent inability to get English syntax 
>> right, you have to wonder how on earth they expect to be a programmer? 
>
> The irritating thing is apparent lack of care. A post is written once
> and will be seen (perhaps not read) by many people. People post with the
> intention of others reading their words. If they can't be bothered to
> take a little care in writing, why should we spend time reading?

Just because English is your second language it doesn't mean you don't
need to pay attention to what keys you're hitting and proof-read a
posting before hitting "send".

And yes, people can _easily_ tell the difference between errors caused
by being lazy/sloppy and errors caused by writing in a second
language.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Let me do my TRIBUTE
                                  at               to FISHNET STOCKINGS ...
                              gmail.com            

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#59535

On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 2:02 AM, Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> And yes, people can _easily_ tell the difference between errors caused
> by being lazy/sloppy and errors caused by writing in a second
> language.

Yes, and even among people for whom English is the first language,
idioms can cause offense. On another list I'm on (Savoynet), one
person got somewhat offended at someone apparently calling him
completely ignorant, when actually no such slight was intended.
Welcome to English, where we all use the same words (mostly) but you
really need to be careful talking about knocking someone up...

ChrisA

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#59542

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 02:12:16 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 2:02 AM, Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>> And yes, people can _easily_ tell the difference between errors caused
>> by being lazy/sloppy and errors caused by writing in a second language.
> 
> Yes, and even among people for whom English is the first language,
> idioms can cause offense. On another list I'm on (Savoynet), one person
> got somewhat offended at someone apparently calling him completely
> ignorant, when actually no such slight was intended.
> Welcome to English, where we all use the same words (mostly) but you
> really need to be careful talking about knocking someone up...
> 
> ChrisA

And "Bumming a fag" can be taken completely the wrong way.



-- 
Some programming languages manage to absorb change, but withstand 
progress.
		-- Epigrams in Programming, ACM SIGPLAN Sept. 1982

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#59593

On 11/15/2013 07:02 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2013-11-15, Paul Rudin <paul.nospam@rudin.co.uk> wrote:
>> Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> writes:
>>
>>> A few minor errors is one thing, but when you see people whose posts are
>>> full of error after error and an apparent inability to get English syntax
>>> right, you have to wonder how on earth they expect to be a programmer?
>>
>> The irritating thing is apparent lack of care. A post is written once
>> and will be seen (perhaps not read) by many people. People post with the
>> intention of others reading their words. If they can't be bothered to
>> take a little care in writing, why should we spend time reading?
>
> Just because English is your second language it doesn't mean you don't
> need to pay attention to what keys you're hitting and proof-read a
> posting before hitting "send".
>
> And yes, people can _easily_ tell the difference between errors caused
> by being lazy/sloppy and errors caused by writing in a second
> language.
>
Not to start another flame-war (I hope), but our Greek friend is a good example of that.  It's 
not surprising he has so much trouble with his code.

However, that's just a side comment.  I wanted to mention my personal peeve...

I notice it's surprisingly common for people who are native English-speakers to use 'to' in 
place of 'too' (to little, to late.), "your" in place of "you're" (Your an idiot!) and 'there' 
in place of 'their' (a foot in there mouth.)  There are similar mis-usages, of course, but those 
three seem to be the most common.

Now, I'm a 76-year-old curmudgeon and maybe overly sensitive, but I felt a need to vent a bit.

      -=- Larry -=-

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#59607

On Nov 16, 2013, at 1:17 AM, Larry Hudson <orgnut@yahoo.com> wrote:

[byte]

> 
> However, that's just a side comment.  I wanted to mention my personal peeve...
> 
> I notice it's surprisingly common for people who are native English-speakers to use 'to' in place of 'too' (to little, to late.), "your" in place of "you're" (Your an idiot!) and 'there' in place of 'their' (a foot in there mouth.)  There are similar mis-usages, of course, but those three seem to be the most common.
> 
> Now, I'm a 76-year-old curmudgeon and maybe overly sensitive, but I felt a need to vent a bit.
> 
>     -=- Larry -=-
> 

And my personal peeve -  using it's (contraction) when its (possessive) should have been used; occasionally vice-versa.

-Bill

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#59614

In article <mailman.2714.1384611545.18130.python-list@python.org>,
 William Ray Wing <wrw@mac.com> wrote:

> And my personal peeve -  using it's (contraction) when its (possessive) 
> should have been used; occasionally vice-versa.

And one of mine is when people write, "Here, here!" to signify 
agreement.  What they really mean to write is, "Hear, hear!", meaning, 
"Listen to what that person said".

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#59680 — grammar (was Re: Automation)

On Sat, 2013-11-16 at 10:11 -0500, Roy Smith wrote:
> In article <mailman.2714.1384611545.18130.python-list@python.org>,
>  William Ray Wing <wrw@mac.com> wrote:
> 
> > And my personal peeve -  using it's (contraction) when its (possessive) 
> > should have been used; occasionally vice-versa.

> And one of mine is when people write, "Here, here!" to signify 
> agreement.  What they really mean to write is, "Hear, hear!", meaning, 
> "Listen to what that person said".

The one that really irks me is people using "loose" when they mean
"lose".  These words are not related, and they don't sound the same.
Plus this mistake is very common; I typically see it at least once a
day.

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#59686 — Re: grammar (was Re: Automation)

On 2013.11.16 11:02, Paul Smith wrote:
> The one that really irks me is people using "loose" when they mean
> "lose".  These words are not related, and they don't sound the same.
> Plus this mistake is very common; I typically see it at least once a
> day.
Don't be surprised if such people pronounce them the same; a lot of such errors are caused by learning incorrect pronunciation.
For example, people often write 'should of' because that is what they hear (and what they end up saying).

-- 
CPython 3.3.2 | Windows NT 6.2.9200 / FreeBSD 10.0

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#59688 — Re: grammar (was Re: Automation)

On 17/11/2013 03:44, Andrew Berg wrote:
> On 2013.11.16 11:02, Paul Smith wrote:
>> The one that really irks me is people using "loose" when they mean
>> "lose".  These words are not related, and they don't sound the
>> same. Plus this mistake is very common; I typically see it at least
>> once a day.
> Don't be surprised if such people pronounce them the same; a lot of
> such errors are caused by learning incorrect pronunciation. For
> example, people often write 'should of' because that is what they
> hear (and what they end up saying).
>
I get annoyed by those who say "pronounciation"...

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#59690 — Re: grammar (was Re: Automation)

On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 3:07 PM, MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> On 17/11/2013 03:44, Andrew Berg wrote:
>>
>> On 2013.11.16 11:02, Paul Smith wrote:
>>>
>>> The one that really irks me is people using "loose" when they mean
>>> "lose".  These words are not related, and they don't sound the
>>> same. Plus this mistake is very common; I typically see it at least
>>> once a day.
>>
>> Don't be surprised if such people pronounce them the same; a lot of
>> such errors are caused by learning incorrect pronunciation. For
>> example, people often write 'should of' because that is what they
>> hear (and what they end up saying).
>>
> I get annoyed by those who say "pronounciation"...

I decided a while ago that my life would be alot better[1] if I didn't
get annoyed at misuse of English, but instead used it as a source of
amusement. Oddities can be found everywhere... our hymn book at church
has one nasty oops where a "not" is mistyped as "now", rather changing
the sense of the sentence. And sometimes it doesn't even take a single
letter of difference - someone who'd recently been doing all the
touristy stuff around Europe was discussing the historical Battle of
Thermopylae, and said "Some of us were there (pause) earlier this
year" - several people began snickering in the pause.

ChrisA

[1] Bahahahaha, trolled you!

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#59691 — Re: grammar (was Re: Automation)

On 2013.11.16 22:16, Chris Angelico wrote:
> I decided a while ago that my life would be alot better[1] 
For those who haven't yet seen it:
http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html

-- 
CPython 3.3.2 | Windows NT 6.2.9200 / FreeBSD 10.0

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