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Is Python a commercial proposition ?

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  Is Python a commercial proposition ? lipska the kat <lipska@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-29 17:01 +0100
    Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? Michael Hrivnak <mhrivnak@hrivnak.org> - 2012-07-29 13:13 -0400
      Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? Bernd Waterkamp <Bernd-Waterkamp@web.de> - 2012-07-29 21:43 +0200
      Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-07-29 23:47 +0200
    Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-29 18:43 +0100
    counting source lines (was: Is Python a commercial proposition ?) Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2012-07-29 19:49 +0200
    Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? Brandon Schaffer <bschaffer13@gmail.com> - 2012-07-29 11:50 -0600
    Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2012-07-29 13:28 -0500
    Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? Andrew Cooper <amc96@cam.ac.uk> - 2012-07-29 19:34 +0100
    Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2012-07-29 20:38 +0200
    Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-07-29 15:38 -0400
    Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? Aled Evans <aled.r.evans@gmail.com> - 2012-07-29 12:54 -0700
    Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? Rodrick Brown <rodrick.brown@gmail.com> - 2012-07-29 20:12 -0400
    Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2012-07-29 19:52 -0500
    Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? Rodrick Brown <rodrick.brown@gmail.com> - 2012-07-29 22:31 -0400
      Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-07-29 20:03 -0700
      Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-07-30 17:45 -0700
    Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2012-07-30 08:07 +0200
      Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-07-30 14:09 +0000
        Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-07-31 02:06 +0000
          Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-07-30 21:45 -0700
            Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2012-07-31 07:27 +0200
            Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-07-31 06:29 +0000
              Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-07-31 08:04 -0400
    Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-07-30 17:52 +1000
      Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-07-30 09:06 -0400
        Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? lipska the kat <lipska@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-30 14:37 +0100
          Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2012-07-31 23:52 +1000
            Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? lipska the kat <lipska@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-31 18:27 +0100
              Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2012-08-01 09:31 +1000
              Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-01 09:06 +0100
                Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? lipska the kat <lipska@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-01 09:15 +0100
                  Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2012-08-01 21:59 +1000
                  Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2012-08-01 14:32 +0200
                  Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2012-08-02 13:10 +1000
                    Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-02 09:17 +0100
                  Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-02 09:09 +0100
                  RE: Is Python a commercial proposition ? "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com> - 2012-08-03 06:51 +0000
                  Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2012-08-03 11:34 +0200
    Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2012-07-30 06:09 -0500
    Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-07-30 09:25 -0700
    Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? Emile van Sebille <emile@fenx.com> - 2012-07-30 10:36 -0700
    RE: Is Python a commercial proposition ? "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com> - 2012-07-30 18:26 +0000
    Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? Chris Withers <chris@python.org> - 2012-08-23 22:46 +0100
      Re: Is Python a commercial proposition ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-24 12:03 +0100

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#26197 — Is Python a commercial proposition ?

Pythoners

Firstly, thanks to those on the tutor list who answered my questions.

I'm trying to understand where Python fits into the set of commonly 
available, commercially used languages of the moment.

My most recent experience is with Java. The last project I was involved 
with included 6775 java source files containing 1,145,785 lines of code. 
How do I know this? because I managed to cobble together a python script 
that walks the source tree and counts the lines of code. It ignores 
block and line comments and whitespace lines so I'm fairly confident 
it's an accurate total. It doesn't include web interface files (mainly 
.jsp and HTML) or configuration files (XML, properties files and what 
have you). In fact it was remarkably easy to do this in python which got 
me thinking about how I could use the language in a commercial environment.

I was first attracted to python by it's apparent 'Object Orientedness' I 
soon realised however that by looking at it in terms of the language I 
know best I wasn't comparing like with like. Once I had 'rebooted the 
bioware' I tried to approach python with an open mind and I have to say 
it's growing on me.

The questions I have are ...

How is python used in the real world.
What sized projects are people involved with
Are applications generally written entirely in python or is it more 
often used for a subset of functionality.

I hope this is an acceptable question for this group

Many thanks

Lipska

-- 
Lipska the Kat: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer
and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun

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#26199

http://www.djangosites.org/

Instagram, Pinterest, Washington Post, and The Onion all use djangoto
run their websites.

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1906795/what-are-some-famous-websites-built-in-django

Django is of course a very highly-regarded web framework written in
python, but there are other good python frameworks out there with
strong user bases.

Python is used frequently on the server side of web applications for
sites of all sizes, with the UI generally being done in javascript.
It's also used heavily for administrative purposes such as:

- Operating system installer: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda
- Software repository management: http://pulpproject.org/
- Software package installation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Software_Center
- Cloud computing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenStack

You can write web applications that scale automatically on hosting
services like:
- Google App Engine: https://developers.google.com/appengine/
- OpenShift: http://openshift.redhat.com/
- Heroku: http://www.heroku.com/

In sum, python is used widely for a variety of purposes by some of the
largest enterprises down to very small projects.

Michael

On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 12:01 PM, lipska the kat <lipska@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Pythoners
>
> Firstly, thanks to those on the tutor list who answered my questions.
>
> I'm trying to understand where Python fits into the set of commonly
> available, commercially used languages of the moment.
>
> My most recent experience is with Java. The last project I was involved with
> included 6775 java source files containing 1,145,785 lines of code. How do I
> know this? because I managed to cobble together a python script that walks
> the source tree and counts the lines of code. It ignores block and line
> comments and whitespace lines so I'm fairly confident it's an accurate
> total. It doesn't include web interface files (mainly .jsp and HTML) or
> configuration files (XML, properties files and what have you). In fact it
> was remarkably easy to do this in python which got me thinking about how I
> could use the language in a commercial environment.
>
> I was first attracted to python by it's apparent 'Object Orientedness' I
> soon realised however that by looking at it in terms of the language I know
> best I wasn't comparing like with like. Once I had 'rebooted the bioware' I
> tried to approach python with an open mind and I have to say it's growing on
> me.
>
> The questions I have are ...
>
> How is python used in the real world.
> What sized projects are people involved with
> Are applications generally written entirely in python or is it more often
> used for a subset of functionality.
>
> I hope this is an acceptable question for this group
>
> Many thanks
>
> Lipska
>
> --
> Lipska the Kat: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer
> and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

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#26211

Michael Hrivnak schrieb:

> Python is used frequently on the server side of web applications for
> sites of all sizes, with the UI generally being done in javascript.

Two large companies with lots of python code are dropbox and youtube:

http://highscalability.com/blog/2011/3/14/6-lessons-from-dropbox-one-million-files-saved-every-15-minu.html
http://highscalability.com/blog/2012/3/26/7-years-of-youtube-scalability-lessons-in-30-minutes.html

> It's also used heavily for administrative purposes such as:
> 
> - Operating system installer: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda
> - Software repository management: http://pulpproject.org/
> - Software package installation:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Software_Center
> - Cloud computing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenStack

- Frameworks/tools like func, fabric or ipython are used in medium and
large networks/"clouds". 
- Python is also used a lot for admin tasks instead of shell scripts. 
- I know IBM WebSphere is not the favorite choice as an application server
for most Java programmers *g*, but it uses Jython for the admin CLI. 

python and python based tools are used for engineering and scientific
computing - some random examples: numpy, Sage, matplotlib, NetworkX. 

Regards, 
Bernd

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#26215

Michael Hrivnak wrote:

> Python is used frequently on the server side of web applications for
> sites of all sizes, with the UI generally being done in javascript.

There is no javascript.

-- 
PointedEars

Please do not Cc: me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#26201

On 29/07/2012 17:01, lipska the kat wrote:
> Pythoners
>
> Firstly, thanks to those on the tutor list who answered my questions.
>
> I'm trying to understand where Python fits into the set of commonly
> available, commercially used languages of the moment.
>
> My most recent experience is with Java. The last project I was involved
> with included 6775 java source files containing 1,145,785 lines of code.
> How do I know this? because I managed to cobble together a python script
> that walks the source tree and counts the lines of code. It ignores
> block and line comments and whitespace lines so I'm fairly confident
> it's an accurate total. It doesn't include web interface files (mainly
> .jsp and HTML) or configuration files (XML, properties files and what
> have you). In fact it was remarkably easy to do this in python which got
> me thinking about how I could use the language in a commercial environment.
>
> I was first attracted to python by it's apparent 'Object Orientedness' I
> soon realised however that by looking at it in terms of the language I
> know best I wasn't comparing like with like. Once I had 'rebooted the
> bioware' I tried to approach python with an open mind and I have to say
> it's growing on me.
>
> The questions I have are ...
>
> How is python used in the real world.
> What sized projects are people involved with
> Are applications generally written entirely in python or is it more
> often used for a subset of functionality.
>
> I hope this is an acceptable question for this group

You are hard pushed to find anything here that's unacceptable, that's 
why I like reading this list so much.

>
> Many thanks
>
> Lipska
>

There's a list of companies who use python on www.python.org top right 
of the page.  You may have heard of one or two of them.

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.

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#26203 — counting source lines (was: Is Python a commercial proposition ?)

lipska the kat, 29.07.2012 18:01:
> My most recent experience is with Java. The last project I was involved
> with included 6775 java source files containing 1,145,785 lines of code.
> How do I know this? because I managed to cobble together a python script
> that walks the source tree and counts the lines of code. It ignores block
> and line comments and whitespace lines so I'm fairly confident it's an
> accurate total. It doesn't include web interface files (mainly ..jsp and
> HTML) or configuration files (XML, properties files and what have you). In
> fact it was remarkably easy to do this in python

Just a comment on this part. An even easier way to count source lines is by
using the tool "SLOCCount". It also works with various languages.

Stefan

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#26204

Another common use is to create automated regression testing
frameworks, and other automation tools.
I see posting for python developers for this type of thing all the
time on stack overflow careers.

On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 29/07/2012 17:01, lipska the kat wrote:
>>
>> Pythoners
>>
>> Firstly, thanks to those on the tutor list who answered my questions.
>>
>> I'm trying to understand where Python fits into the set of commonly
>> available, commercially used languages of the moment.
>>
>> My most recent experience is with Java. The last project I was involved
>> with included 6775 java source files containing 1,145,785 lines of code.
>> How do I know this? because I managed to cobble together a python script
>> that walks the source tree and counts the lines of code. It ignores
>> block and line comments and whitespace lines so I'm fairly confident
>> it's an accurate total. It doesn't include web interface files (mainly
>> .jsp and HTML) or configuration files (XML, properties files and what
>> have you). In fact it was remarkably easy to do this in python which got
>> me thinking about how I could use the language in a commercial
>> environment.
>>
>> I was first attracted to python by it's apparent 'Object Orientedness' I
>> soon realised however that by looking at it in terms of the language I
>> know best I wasn't comparing like with like. Once I had 'rebooted the
>> bioware' I tried to approach python with an open mind and I have to say
>> it's growing on me.
>>
>> The questions I have are ...
>>
>> How is python used in the real world.
>> What sized projects are people involved with
>> Are applications generally written entirely in python or is it more
>> often used for a subset of functionality.
>>
>> I hope this is an acceptable question for this group
>
>
> You are hard pushed to find anything here that's unacceptable, that's why I
> like reading this list so much.
>
>>
>> Many thanks
>>
>> Lipska
>>
>
> There's a list of companies who use python on www.python.org top right of
> the page.  You may have heard of one or two of them.
>
> --
> Cheers.
>
> Mark Lawrence.
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

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#26206

On 07/29/12 12:13, Michael Hrivnak wrote:
> - Operating system installer: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda
> - Software repository management: http://pulpproject.org/
> - Software package installation:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Software_Center
> - Cloud computing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenStack

I'll include both the Bazaar and Mercurial DVCS tools which are
mostly Python (I understand some inner loops drop to C, but both
have the option to fall back to a pure Python implementation).

-tkc

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#26207

On 29/07/2012 17:01, lipska the kat wrote:
> Pythoners
> 
> Firstly, thanks to those on the tutor list who answered my questions.
> 
> I'm trying to understand where Python fits into the set of commonly
> available, commercially used languages of the moment.
> 
> My most recent experience is with Java. The last project I was involved
> with included 6775 java source files containing 1,145,785 lines of code.
> How do I know this? because I managed to cobble together a python script
> that walks the source tree and counts the lines of code. It ignores
> block and line comments and whitespace lines so I'm fairly confident
> it's an accurate total. It doesn't include web interface files (mainly
> .jsp and HTML) or configuration files (XML, properties files and what
> have you). In fact it was remarkably easy to do this in python which got
> me thinking about how I could use the language in a commercial environment.
> 
> I was first attracted to python by it's apparent 'Object Orientedness' I
> soon realised however that by looking at it in terms of the language I
> know best I wasn't comparing like with like. Once I had 'rebooted the
> bioware' I tried to approach python with an open mind and I have to say
> it's growing on me.
> 
> The questions I have are ...
> 
> How is python used in the real world.
> What sized projects are people involved with
> Are applications generally written entirely in python or is it more
> often used for a subset of functionality.

Python is used extensively in XenServer, although arguably more of a
glue between components.  The installer is entirely python, whereas the
running product uses it more for scripts and toolstack plugins.

Behind the scenes, our regression test framework is entirely python,
which performs several thousand machine hours of tests a night, from
simple tests such as "verify the installer runs correctly and verify
settings are preserved across upgrade from an older version" to "set up
a pool of 4 servers, kill the master server (by removing its power), and
verify that the remaining 3 fail over and one gets promoted to master"

~Andrew

> 
> I hope this is an acceptable question for this group
> 
> Many thanks
> 
> Lipska
> 

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#26209

Tim Chase, 29.07.2012 20:28:
> On 07/29/12 12:13, Michael Hrivnak wrote:
>> - Operating system installer: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda
>> - Software repository management: http://pulpproject.org/
>> - Software package installation:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Software_Center
>> - Cloud computing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenStack
> 
> I'll include both the Bazaar and Mercurial DVCS tools which are
> mostly Python (I understand some inner loops drop to C, but both
> have the option to fall back to a pure Python implementation).

I find it perfectly reasonable to use C code (and other kinds of low-level
code) in Python tools and applications. In fact, easy interfacing with
low-level code is one of (C)Python's major selling points.

Stefan

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#26210

On 7/29/2012 12:01 PM, lipska the kat wrote:
> I'm trying to understand where Python fits into the set of commonly
> available, commercially used languages of the moment.

Ever heard of a little startup called Google? It was built with C, Java, 
... and Python. I believe Youtube is scripted in Python.

 > Are applications generally written entirely in python
 > or is it more often used for a subset of functionality.

Even if the direct application is in Python, if it runs on CPython, it 
probably uses modules coded or re-coded in C, and it certainly used 
builtin functions and classes coded in C.

The first 'killer app' for Python, in the 1990s, was its use as a glue 
language for interactive and batch scientific/numerical computation 
mostly done in compiled Fortran.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy

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#26212

On Sunday, July 29, 2012 5:01:00 PM UTC+1, lipska the kat wrote:
> Pythoners
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly, thanks to those on the tutor list who answered my questions.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm trying to understand where Python fits into the set of commonly 
> 
> available, commercially used languages of the moment.
> 
> 
> 
> My most recent experience is with Java. The last project I was involved 
> 
> with included 6775 java source files containing 1,145,785 lines of code. 
> 
> How do I know this? because I managed to cobble together a python script 
> 
> that walks the source tree and counts the lines of code. It ignores 
> 
> block and line comments and whitespace lines so I'm fairly confident 
> 
> it's an accurate total. It doesn't include web interface files (mainly 
> 
> .jsp and HTML) or configuration files (XML, properties files and what 
> 
> have you). In fact it was remarkably easy to do this in python which got 
> 
> me thinking about how I could use the language in a commercial environment.
> 
> 
> 
> I was first attracted to python by it's apparent 'Object Orientedness' I 
> 
> soon realised however that by looking at it in terms of the language I 
> 
> know best I wasn't comparing like with like. Once I had 'rebooted the 
> 
> bioware' I tried to approach python with an open mind and I have to say 
> 
> it's growing on me.
> 
> 
> 
> The questions I have are ...
> 
> 
> 
> How is python used in the real world.
> 
> What sized projects are people involved with
> 
> Are applications generally written entirely in python or is it more 
> 
> often used for a subset of functionality.
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this is an acceptable question for this group
> 
> 
> 
> Many thanks
> 
> 
> 
> Lipska
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Lipska the Kat: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer
> 
> and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun

If you check Google's job listings:

http://www.google.com/about/jobs/teams/engineering/

On the software side of things you'll see very few listings that don't ask for coding in Python as a requirement or, at the very least, an advantageous skill to have.

I'd say slowly, but surely, many people are coming around the fact that Python is not only as powerful as Java and other high-level languages, but it's also easier to read and write. That, and people (that I've spoken to, at least), find it far more fun to code in Python!

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#26218

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 29, 2012, at 12:07 PM, lipska the kat <lipska@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> Pythoners
>
> Firstly, thanks to those on the tutor list who answered my questions.
>
> I'm trying to understand where Python fits into the set of commonly available, commercially used languages of the moment.

Python is a glue language much like Perl was 10 years ago. Until the
GIL is fixed I doubt anyone will seriously look at Python as an option
for large enterprise standalone application development.

I work in financials and the majority of our apps are developed in C++
and Java yet all the tools that startup, deploy and conduct rigorous
unit testing are implemented in Python or Shell scripts that wrap
Python scripts.

Python definitely has its place in the enterprise however not so much
for serious stand alone app development.

I'm starting to see Python used along side many statistical and
analytical tools like R, SPlus, and Mathlab for back testing and
prototype work, in a lot of cases I've seen quants and traders
implement models in Python to back test and if successful converted to
Java or C++.

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#26220

On 7/29/2012 7:12 PM, Rodrick Brown wrote:
> Python is a glue language much like Perl was 10 years ago. Until the
> GIL is fixed I doubt anyone will seriously look at Python as an option
> for large enterprise standalone application development.
The GIL is neither a bug to be fixed nor an inherent part of the
language. It is a design choice for CPython. There are reasons the
CPython devs have no intention of removing the GIL (at least in the near
future). A recent outline of these reasons (written by one of the
CPython devs) is here:

http://python-notes.boredomandlaziness.org/en/latest/python3/questions_and_answers.html#but-but-surely-fixing-the-gil-is-more-important-than-fixing-unicode
-- 
CPython 3.3.0b1 | Windows NT 6.1.7601.17803

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#26223

On Jul 29, 2012, at 8:54 PM, Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 7/29/2012 7:12 PM, Rodrick Brown wrote:
>> Python is a glue language much like Perl was 10 years ago. Until the
>> GIL is fixed I doubt anyone will seriously look at Python as an option
>> for large enterprise standalone application development.
> The GIL is neither a bug to be fixed nor an inherent part of the
> language. It is a design choice for CPython. There are reasons the
> CPython devs have no intention of removing the GIL (at least in the near
> future). A recent outline of these reasons (written by one of the
> CPython devs) is here:
>
> http://python-notes.boredomandlaziness.org/en/latest/python3/questions_and_answers.html#but-but-surely-fixing-the-gil-is-more-important-than-fixing-unicode

Hence the reason why no one will seriously look at Python for none
glue work or simple web apps.  When it comes to designing complex
applications that need to exploit large multicore systems Python just
isn't an option.

Its still not possible to be a pure Python developer and find gainful
employment today.

> --
> CPython 3.3.0b1 | Windows NT 6.1.7601.17803
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

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#26224

Rodrick Brown <rodrick.brown@gmail.com> writes:
> Hence the reason why no one will seriously look at Python for none
> glue work or simple web apps.  When it comes to designing complex
> applications that need to exploit large multicore systems Python just
> isn't an option.

That's wrong, I've run multicore apps in Python, by just using separate
processes.  There was no GIL issue, just separate processes for each
core.  The cpython interpreter is so slow that the GIL is usually not
the bottleneck anyway.  For lots of applications this just doesn't
matter since the app is either not cpu-intensive or (in my case) all the
work is done in native libraries.

> Its still not possible to be a pure Python developer and find gainful
> employment today.

Certainly any serious programmer should be good in multiple languages,
and in fact I got to write a little bit of C code at work a few months
ago, but it wasn't really needed.  The program is all Python.

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#26278

On Jul 30, 12:31 pm, Rodrick Brown <rodrick.br...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Its still not possible to be a pure Python developer and find gainful
> employment today.

I have been working as a "pure" Python developer for six+ years now
(in that the bulk of my coding is done in Python, with some interface
behaviour in JS). On average, every two months I'm contacted by a
recruiter or an employer wanting me for my Python experience. I've
worked for government, education and private industry, and the only
time I didn't get paid was my last week working for a start-up.

So I'm pretty confident that I'm "gainfully" employed.

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#26230

Rodrick Brown, 30.07.2012 02:12:
> On Jul 29, 2012, at 12:07 PM, lipska the kat wrote:
>> I'm trying to understand where Python fits into the set of commonly available, commercially used languages of the moment.
> 
> Python is a glue language much like Perl was 10 years ago. Until the
> GIL is fixed

Enough people have commented on this piece of FUD already.


> I doubt anyone will seriously look at Python as an option
> for large enterprise standalone application development.

I know enough examples to recognise this as nonsense. You mentioned working
in "financials" and even there I know at least one not-so-small bank that's
been developing their internal (EAI and business process) code in Python
for almost a decade now. And their developers are quite happy with it,
certainly happier than many of the Java developers I've met in other banks.

Still, you may still get away with the above statement by providing a
sufficiently narrow definition of "standalone". By my definition, there
isn't much "standalone" code out there. Most code I know interfaces with a
couple of external tools, libraries or backends, usually written in
languages I don't have to care about because they provide a language
independent interface.

Stefan

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#26254

On 2012-07-30, Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> wrote:

> Still, you may still get away with the above statement by providing a
> sufficiently narrow definition of "standalone". By my definition, there
> isn't much "standalone" code out there. Most code I know interfaces with a
> couple of external tools, libraries or backends, usually written in
> languages I don't have to care about because they provide a language
> independent interface.

It's not really relevent to this discussion, but there is _lots_ of
stand-alone code out there. It runs in sub-one-dollar microcontrollers
that are programmed in assembly language or in C without external
libraries (sometimes not even the "libc" that's included in the C
language definition).  Those microcontrollers are everywhere in toys,
appliances, and all sorts of other "non-computer" things.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Mr and Mrs PED, can I
                                  at               borrow 26.7% of the RAYON
                              gmail.com            TEXTILE production of the
                                                   INDONESIAN archipelago?

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#26283

On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 14:09:38 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:

> On 2012-07-30, Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> wrote:
> 
>> Still, you may still get away with the above statement by providing a
>> sufficiently narrow definition of "standalone". By my definition, there
>> isn't much "standalone" code out there. Most code I know interfaces
>> with a couple of external tools, libraries or backends, usually written
>> in languages I don't have to care about because they provide a language
>> independent interface.
> 
> It's not really relevent to this discussion, but there is _lots_ of
> stand-alone code out there. It runs in sub-one-dollar microcontrollers
> that are programmed in assembly language or in C without external
> libraries (sometimes not even the "libc" that's included in the C
> language definition).  Those microcontrollers are everywhere in toys,
> appliances, and all sorts of other "non-computer" things.

And at that level, you aren't going to write your app in Python anyway, 
and not because of the GIL. (These microcontrollers are unlikely to have 
multiple cores -- why the hell does your microwave oven need two cores?)

It seems to me that those who claim that the GIL is a serious barrier to 
Python's use in the enterprise are mostly cargo-cult programmers, 
parroting what they've heard from other cargo-cultists. It really is 
astonishing the amount of misinformation and outright wrong-headed 
ignorance that counts as accepted wisdom in the enterprise.



-- 
Steven

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