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Re: OT: Text editors (was Re: Search and replace text in XML file?)

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  Re: OT: Text editors (was Re: Search and replace text in XML file?) Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2012-07-28 13:29 -0500
    Re: OT: Text editors Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2012-07-29 15:08 +1000
      Re: OT: Text editors rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-07-28 22:36 -0700
        Re: OT: Text editors Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2012-07-29 18:24 +1000
        Re: OT: Text editors Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel@gmail.com> - 2012-07-29 15:24 +0100
      Re: OT: Text editors Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-29 11:28 +0100
        Re: OT: Text editors Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-07-29 21:41 +0000
      Re: OT: Text editors Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2012-07-29 06:47 -0500
        Re: OT: Text editors Robert Marshall <spam@capuchin.co.uk> - 2012-07-29 14:36 +0100
          Re: OT: Text editors Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-29 15:15 +0100
          Re: OT: Text editors MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2012-07-29 17:22 +0100
      Re: OT: Text editors Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-07-29 13:44 -0400

#26163 — Re: OT: Text editors (was Re: Search and replace text in XML file?)

On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> I highly recommend the use of notepad++.  If anyone knows of a
> better text editor for Windows please let me know :)

I'll advocate for Vim which is crazy-powerful and works nicely on
just about any platform I touch.

Others will advocate for Emacs, which I can't say fits the way my
brain works but it's also powerful and loved by many.

The ubiquity of these two platforms makes a worthwhile investment of
time spent in learning at least one if not both.

-tkc

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#26174 — Re: OT: Text editors

Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> writes:

> On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> > I highly recommend the use of notepad++.  If anyone knows of a
> > better text editor for Windows please let me know :)

I highly recommend not tying your editor skills to a single OS,
especially one as ornery for programmers as Windows.

> I'll advocate for Vim which is crazy-powerful and works nicely on
> just about any platform I touch.
>
> Others will advocate for Emacs, which I can't say fits the way my
> brain works but it's also powerful and loved by many.

Right. I'm in Tim's position, but reversed: my preference is for Emacs
but Vim is a fine choice also. They are mature, well-supported with
regular updates and a massive library of plug-ins for different uses,
have a huge community to help you, and work on all major programming
OSen.

> The ubiquity of these two platforms makes a worthwhile investment of
> time spent in learning at least one if not both.

I use both frequently in my work for different things, and they are good
for pretty much any task involving manipulation of text.

Learn one of Emacs or Vim well, and you won't need to worry about text
editors again.

-- 
 \        “All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more |
  `\   robust, sophisticated, and well supported in logic and argument |
_o__)                                     than others.” —Douglas Adams |
Ben Finney

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#26175 — Re: OT: Text editors

On Jul 29, 10:08 am, Ben Finney <ben+pyt...@benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> Tim Chase <python.l...@tim.thechases.com> writes:
> > On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> > > I highly recommend the use of notepad++.  If anyone knows of a
> > > better text editor for Windows please let me know :)

I would have bet Mark was ribbing the folks on this list.
Maybe you were not Mark? [Well you did say notepad++ not notepad]
But to get a bit more serious...

>
> I highly recommend not tying your editor skills to a single OS,
> especially one as ornery for programmers as Windows.
>
> > I'll advocate for Vim which is crazy-powerful and works nicely on
> > just about any platform I touch.
>
> > Others will advocate for Emacs, which I can't say fits the way my
> > brain works but it's also powerful and loved by many.
>
> Right. I'm in Tim's position, but reversed: my preference is for Emacs
> but Vim is a fine choice also. They are mature, well-supported with
> regular updates and a massive library of plug-ins for different uses,
> have a huge community to help you, and work on all major programming
> OSen.
>
> > The ubiquity of these two platforms makes a worthwhile investment of
> > time spent in learning at least one if not both.
>
> I use both frequently in my work for different things, and they are good
> for pretty much any task involving manipulation of text.
>
> Learn one of Emacs or Vim well, and you won't need to worry about text
> editors again.

Just curious about your emacs+python usage.
Do you use the emacs builtin python mode or the separate python-mode?
Do you use pdb?
Any other special setups?
How about ipython?

[Personal note: Ive been using and teaching python with emacs for over
10 years now.
But I am getting increasing 'funny looks' for not (for example) using
eclipse.]

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#26176 — Re: OT: Text editors

rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> writes:

> Do you use the emacs builtin python mode or the separate python-mode?

I'm not sure. I have both installed.

I try to keep my Emacs setup portable across different machines, so I'm
probably using the built-in mode.

> Do you use pdb?

Occasionally, but I haven't learned how to do that in Emacs.

> Any other special setups?

GNU Screen and Emacs are the foundation of my programming environment.

> How about ipython?

Never really liked it nor saw a need for it. I use the Python
interactive console, with GNU readline so I get history preserved and
tab-completion.

> But I am getting increasing 'funny looks' for not (for example) using
> eclipse.]

Unless those funny looks are accompanied by compelling reasons to invest
a whole lot of effort into learning a rather slow and complex program,
then it seems you can ignore them.

-- 
 \      “The way to build large Python applications is to componentize |
  `\             and loosely-couple the hell out of everything.” —Aahz |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney

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#26190 — Re: OT: Text editors

On 29 July 2012 06:36, rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just curious about your emacs+python usage.
> Do you use the emacs builtin python mode or the separate python-mode?
> Do you use pdb?
> Any other special setups?

One thing that I find very useful is to configure flymake to use
pyflakes.  Very useful to get feedback on unused imports / unused
variables / undefined variables (which means you spot typos on
variable names straight away).

For instructions, see e.g. http://www.plope.com/Members/chrism/flymake-mode

-- 
Arnaud

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#26177 — Re: OT: Text editors

On 29/07/2012 06:08, Ben Finney wrote:
> Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> writes:
>
>> On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>>> I highly recommend the use of notepad++.  If anyone knows of a
>>> better text editor for Windows please let me know :)
>
> I highly recommend not tying your editor skills to a single OS,
> especially one as ornery for programmers as Windows.
>
>> I'll advocate for Vim which is crazy-powerful and works nicely on
>> just about any platform I touch.
>>
>> Others will advocate for Emacs, which I can't say fits the way my
>> brain works but it's also powerful and loved by many.
>
> Right. I'm in Tim's position, but reversed: my preference is for Emacs
> but Vim is a fine choice also. They are mature, well-supported with
> regular updates and a massive library of plug-ins for different uses,
> have a huge community to help you, and work on all major programming
> OSen.
>
>> The ubiquity of these two platforms makes a worthwhile investment of
>> time spent in learning at least one if not both.
>
> I use both frequently in my work for different things, and they are good
> for pretty much any task involving manipulation of text.
>
> Learn one of Emacs or Vim well, and you won't need to worry about text
> editors again.
>

Point taken, snag being I've never used any nix box in anger.  This 
thread reminds of the good 'ole days when I were a lad using TPU on VMS. 
  Have we got any VMS aficionados here?

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.

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#26214 — Re: OT: Text editors

On 2012-07-29, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> Point taken, snag being I've never used any nix box in anger.  This 
> thread reminds of the good 'ole days when I were a lad using TPU on
> VMS.  Have we got any VMS aficionados here?

It's been a long time, but I used eve/tpu as my main editor for
several years back when I did embedded SW development on VMS.  I was
an ex-Unix user, so I used DECShell a lot -- even though it was
painfully slow.  The entire Unix philosophy is based on the assumption
that process creation is inexpensive, and I was told process creation
on VMS was _very_ expensive, so Bourne shell scripts that would have
taken second under Unix took minutes under VMS.

-- 
Grant

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#26180 — Re: OT: Text editors

On 07/29/12 05:28, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> On 29/07/2012 06:08, Ben Finney wrote:
>> Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> writes:
>> Learn one of Emacs or Vim well, and you won't need to worry
>> about text editors again.
> 
> Point taken, snag being I've never used any nix box in anger.
> This thread reminds of the good 'ole days when I were a lad using
> TPU on VMS. Have we got any VMS aficionados here?

Though I'm personally far more vitriolic about VMS vs $OS (had a few
souring experiences with VMS in college) than I am regarding Vim vs.
Emacs, you can get Vim for at least OpenVMS:

http://www.vim.org/download.php#others

I presume sources compile fairly well on other flavors of VMS if
needed, and I'd expect Emacs can do likewise[1]

-tkc


[1]
http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/EmacsOnVMS

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#26183 — Re: OT: Text editors

On Sun, 29 Jul 2012, python.list@tim.thechases.com wrote:

> On 07/29/12 05:28, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>> On 29/07/2012 06:08, Ben Finney wrote:
>>> Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> writes:
>>> Learn one of Emacs or Vim well, and you won't need to worry
>>> about text editors again.
>> 
>> Point taken, snag being I've never used any nix box in anger.
>> This thread reminds of the good 'ole days when I were a lad using
>> TPU on VMS. Have we got any VMS aficionados here?
> 
> Though I'm personally far more vitriolic about VMS vs $OS (had a few
> souring experiences with VMS in college) than I am regarding Vim vs.
> Emacs, you can get Vim for at least OpenVMS:
> 
> http://www.vim.org/download.php#others
> 
> I presume sources compile fairly well on other flavors of VMS if
> needed, and I'd expect Emacs can do likewise[1]
> 

I used to use tpu (used to have piles of tpu macros..) and I first got used
to emacs by using its tpu mode - I see that still exists so you can use
emacs and pretend it is really tpu!

Robert
-- 
La grenouille songe..dans son château d'eau
Links and things http://rmstar.blogspot.com/

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#26187 — Re: OT: Text editors

On 29/07/2012 14:36, Robert Marshall wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Jul 2012, python.list@tim.thechases.com wrote:
>
>> On 07/29/12 05:28, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>>> On 29/07/2012 06:08, Ben Finney wrote:
>>>> Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> writes:
>>>> Learn one of Emacs or Vim well, and you won't need to worry
>>>> about text editors again.
>>>
>>> Point taken, snag being I've never used any nix box in anger.
>>> This thread reminds of the good 'ole days when I were a lad using
>>> TPU on VMS. Have we got any VMS aficionados here?
>>
>> Though I'm personally far more vitriolic about VMS vs $OS (had a few
>> souring experiences with VMS in college) than I am regarding Vim vs.
>> Emacs, you can get Vim for at least OpenVMS:
>>
>> http://www.vim.org/download.php#others
>>
>> I presume sources compile fairly well on other flavors of VMS if
>> needed, and I'd expect Emacs can do likewise[1]
>>
>
> I used to use tpu (used to have piles of tpu macros..) and I first got used
> to emacs by using its tpu mode - I see that still exists so you can use
> emacs and pretend it is really tpu!
>
> Robert
>

Well knock me down with a feather, clevor Trevor[1], might have to give 
that a go, thanks.

[1] Ian Dury and the Blockheads album New Boots and Panties, song called 
Clevor Trevor for those of you who clearly lack a suitable education :)

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.

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#26198 — Re: OT: Text editors

On 29/07/2012 15:15, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> On 29/07/2012 14:36, Robert Marshall wrote:
>> On Sun, 29 Jul 2012, python.list@tim.thechases.com wrote:
>>
>>> On 07/29/12 05:28, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>>>> On 29/07/2012 06:08, Ben Finney wrote:
>>>>> Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> writes:
>>>>> Learn one of Emacs or Vim well, and you won't need to worry
>>>>> about text editors again.
>>>>
>>>> Point taken, snag being I've never used any nix box in anger.
>>>> This thread reminds of the good 'ole days when I were a lad using
>>>> TPU on VMS. Have we got any VMS aficionados here?
>>>
>>> Though I'm personally far more vitriolic about VMS vs $OS (had a few
>>> souring experiences with VMS in college) than I am regarding Vim vs.
>>> Emacs, you can get Vim for at least OpenVMS:
>>>
>>> http://www.vim.org/download.php#others
>>>
>>> I presume sources compile fairly well on other flavors of VMS if
>>> needed, and I'd expect Emacs can do likewise[1]
>>>
>>
>> I used to use tpu (used to have piles of tpu macros..) and I first got used
>> to emacs by using its tpu mode - I see that still exists so you can use
>> emacs and pretend it is really tpu!
>>
>> Robert
>>
>
> Well knock me down with a feather, clevor Trevor[1], might have to give
> that a go, thanks.
>
> [1] Ian Dury and the Blockheads album New Boots and Panties, song called
> Clevor Trevor for those of you who clearly lack a suitable education :)
>
There appears to be some confusion about the spelling, but it might be
"Clevor Trever".

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#26202 — Re: OT: Text editors

On Sun, 29 Jul 2012 11:28:17 +0100, Mark Lawrence
<breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> declaimed the following in
gmane.comp.python.general:

> Point taken, snag being I've never used any nix box in anger.  This 
> thread reminds of the good 'ole days when I were a lad using TPU on VMS. 
>   Have we got any VMS aficionados here?

	Don't recall TPU directly... Had a few short encounters with LSE but
mostly used EDT (scary enough -- I had the Blaise editor from Alcor
Pascal [TRS-80 Model III/4] configured as much as possible to look like
EDT... Not easy since there were only three PF keys available, and maybe
one other missing key). EDT was also the supposed test case for the VLT
term program I used on my Amiga (VLT supported, supposedly, everything
but double height and double width character sets, over a dial-up line).
EDT was the editor used by the Delphi mail system.
-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
        wlfraed@ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

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