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Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a

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  Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a Ferrous Cranus <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-13 16:17 +0200
    Re: Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a Ferrous Cranus <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-13 16:21 +0200
    Re: Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2013-11-13 15:23 +0100
      Re: Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a Ferrous Cranus <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-13 16:26 +0200
        Re: Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-11-13 15:59 +0000
      Re: Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a Ferrous Cranus <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-13 16:28 +0200
    Re: Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-11-13 16:13 +0000
      Re: Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a Ferrous Cranus <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-13 18:38 +0200
        Re: Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-11-13 09:29 -0800
          Re: Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-11-14 02:51 +0000
        Re: Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2013-11-13 18:45 +0100
          Re: Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a Ferrous Cranus <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-13 23:19 +0200
            Re: Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a Johannes Findeisen <mailman@hanez.org> - 2013-11-13 22:30 +0100
              Re: Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a Ferrous Cranus <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-13 23:39 +0200
                Re: Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-11-13 13:44 -0800
                  Re: Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a Ferrous Cranus <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-13 23:52 +0200
                Re: Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-13 21:56 +0000
                  Re: Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a Ferrous Cranus <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-14 00:00 +0200
                    Re: Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-13 22:32 +0000
                      Re: Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-11-13 16:57 -0800
                        Re: Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-14 01:10 +0000
                          Re: Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-11-14 02:55 +0000
                            Re: Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-14 19:12 +0000
                            Re: Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-15 10:23 +1100
                    Re: Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a Johannes Findeisen <mailman@hanez.org> - 2013-11-14 01:54 +0100
                      Re: Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a Ferrous Cranus <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-14 12:22 +0200
    Re: Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-11-14 01:14 +0000
      Re: Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-14 12:27 +1100
        Using alpha software in production [was Re: Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-11-14 02:00 +0000
          Re: Using alpha software in production [was Re: Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-14 13:17 +1100
    Re: Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a Nick the Gr33k <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-11-14 15:50 +0200
      Re: Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-15 00:57 +1100
      Re: Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a Benjamin Kaplan <benjamin.kaplan@case.edu> - 2013-11-14 11:28 -0800

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#59380

On 14/11/2013 00:57, Ned Batchelder wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 13, 2013 5:32:49 PM UTC-5, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>> Wrong.  You've once again not bothered to read the information that's
>> been handed to you on a plate.  If you'd followed the instructions you
>> would not get the "No such file or directory" error shown above.  I'm
>> not going to spoon feed you, so please go away and sort this out for
>> yourself, we're sick to death of seeing you here.
>>
>> Mark Lawrence
>
> Mark, language like that has no place on this list.  Whatever problems are happening here, you are not helping to solve them.  Please stop.  Think about what you want this list to be like, and write when you can make a positive contribution to that effect.
>
> http://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
> --Ned.
>

Stop him and stop the spoon feeders and I stop.  Simples.  And we are 
sick to death of seeing him here, don't you have the guts to say it like 
it is?

-- 
Python is the second best programming language in the world.
But the best has yet to be invented.  Christian Tismer

Mark Lawrence

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#59399

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 01:10:09 +0000, Mark Lawrence wrote:

> Stop him and stop the spoon feeders and I stop.  Simples.  

Oh, why didn't you say so in the first place? Okay, I'll just wave my 
magic wand and say the magic words and he'll go away... 

Hmmm, it doesn't seem to be working. Perhaps you can suggest another way?

We've tried ignoring him and it doesn't work, we've tried shouting abuse 
and not only doesn't it make him go away it just makes him shout abuse 
back, and it frightens off newcomers to the group. I've tried wishing 
really hard, rearranging the socks in my sock drawer, and kicking the dog 
across the room, so if you've got any suggestions that don't involve a 
pointless flamewar I'll be really, really grateful to hear them.


> And we are sick
> to death of seeing him here, don't you have the guts to say it like it
> is?

I prefer brains to guts. Guts is just an excuse for not thinking. What 
good does it do to "say it like it is"? You don't discourage him, you 
just send a message that flaming is acceptable, make this a more hostile 
environment, AND rather than discourage him, your flames just encourage 
him to counter-attack with abuse. Flaming as a way to remove annoying 
posters (be they help-vampires or trolls) doesn't work.

Please Mark, and anyone else reading, I'm begging you on bended knee, 
take your flaming off list. You can be a valued member of this community 
when you put your mind to it, but your prideful refusal to stop attacking 
Nikos is helping to wreck this community.


-- 
Steven

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#59467

On 14/11/2013 02:55, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
> Please Mark, and anyone else reading, I'm begging you on bended knee,
> take your flaming off list. You can be a valued member of this community
> when you put your mind to it, but your prideful refusal to stop attacking
> Nikos is helping to wreck this community.
>

No need for the bended knee old chap, although if you want some kind of 
part I'm fairly sure that Chris Angelico could find you something in one 
of his Gilbert and Sullivan productions.

Talking of Chris, I see that he, Robert Kern and alister (possibly 
others?) have all pointed out to our illustrious Greek colleague that 
his latest question, which has been repeated three times to my 
knowledge, isn't Python related and would he please ask it elsewhere. 
Hopefully this pattern will continue, meaning the end of hostilities.

I'll give up mentioning the spoon feeders part in this rather unpleasant 
interlude.  Doh!!!

-- 
Python is the second best programming language in the world.
But the best has yet to be invented.  Christian Tismer

Mark Lawrence

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#59489

On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 6:12 AM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 14/11/2013 02:55, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>>
>> Please Mark, and anyone else reading, I'm begging you on bended knee,
>> take your flaming off list. You can be a valued member of this community
>> when you put your mind to it, but your prideful refusal to stop attacking
>> Nikos is helping to wreck this community.
>>
>
> No need for the bended knee old chap, although if you want some kind of part
> I'm fairly sure that Chris Angelico could find you something in one of his
> Gilbert and Sullivan productions.

Oh, absolutely! Quite a few! Also, there are references in "The Grand
Duke" to, and I quote, "histrionic art". I think that adequately
describes some of what we've seen here :)

ChrisA

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#59372

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 00:00:04 +0200
Ferrous Cranus wrote:

> Στις 13/11/2013 11:56 μμ, ο/η Mark Lawrence έγραψε:

<snip>

> 
> But i have gone to the link and did what it said and it didn't proved 
> usefull thats why i re-ask.

Try looking for a package named "setuptools". I think that is the
package you are missing for installing pip. I don't know anything about
the current CentOS release so may it will not be available via yum.

Good luck!

Regards,
Johannes

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#59422

Στις 14/11/2013 2:54 πμ, ο/η Johannes Findeisen έγραψε:
> On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 00:00:04 +0200
> Ferrous Cranus wrote:
>
>> Στις 13/11/2013 11:56 μμ, ο/η Mark Lawrence έγραψε:
>
> <snip>
>
>>
>> But i have gone to the link and did what it said and it didn't proved
>> usefull thats why i re-ask.
>
> Try looking for a package named "setuptools". I think that is the
> package you are missing for installing pip. I don't know anything about
> the current CentOS release so may it will not be available via yum.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Regards,
> Johannes
>




i will but i must tell you that i had

'yum groupinstall "development tools"'

i did this before even installing Python 3.4a

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#59381

On Wed, 13 Nov 2013 16:17:22 +0200, Ferrous Cranus wrote:

> root@secure [/home/nikos/www/cgi-bin]# python3 -V Python 3.4.0a4

Let me just check.

Nobody is so stupid as to run alpha software on a production server[1] 
are they?

[1] In this context, "production server" means any system facing the 
public internet upon which python code is executed in response to inputs 
from the public internet.

-- 
Denis McMahon, denismfmcmahon@gmail.com

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#59384

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Denis McMahon
<denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Nov 2013 16:17:22 +0200, Ferrous Cranus wrote:
>
>> root@secure [/home/nikos/www/cgi-bin]# python3 -V Python 3.4.0a4
>
> Let me just check.
>
> Nobody is so stupid as to run alpha software on a production server[1]
> are they?
>
> [1] In this context, "production server" means any system facing the
> public internet upon which python code is executed in response to inputs
> from the public internet.

I don't know that that's necessarily stupid. For a lot of my work,
I've been using a trunk version of Pike (7.9.11 currently), and if I
were working more heavily with Python on my servers, I would consider
using alpha versions if there were features that I wanted (or fixes
that I needed). It's not stupid, but it does require a "hand on the
tiller" so to speak; running alpha code - or, for that matter, any
code you compiled yourself - in production means taking responsibility
for it. I'm confident of my own ability to keep up with changes, but
for most people, I would strongly recommend taking, in order: (1) the
Python that your distro provides; (2) a python.org published stable
version; (3) a preproduction (eg RC) version; and finally (4) anything
else, including straight from Mercurial. The further down that list
you go, the more work you have to do yourself to ensure compatibility,
dependency management, etcetera.

ChrisA

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#59386 — Using alpha software in production [was Re: Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a]

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 12:27:58 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Denis McMahon
> <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Nobody is so stupid as to run alpha software on a production server[1]
>> are they?
>>
>> [1] In this context, "production server" means any system facing the
>> public internet upon which python code is executed in response to
>> inputs from the public internet.

Surely the answer to that is, "define stupid"?

What are the consequences of breakage? If the consequences are minor, why 
wouldn't I use alpha software? Hypothetically speaking, even if the 
machine were totally compromised, I might just shrug and rebuild it 
(hopefully having reported the security vulnerability that allowed the 
compromise, and having it fixed).

But specifically in this case, I agree with your implication, and 
question the wisdom of the OP upgrading from a stable version of 3.3 to 
an alpha version of 3.4.


> I don't know that that's necessarily stupid. For a lot of my work, I've
> been using a trunk version of Pike (7.9.11 currently), and if I were
> working more heavily with Python on my servers, I would consider using
> alpha versions if there were features that I wanted (or fixes that I
> needed). It's not stupid, but it does require a "hand on the tiller" so
> to speak; running alpha code - or, for that matter, any code you
> compiled yourself - in production means taking responsibility for it.

Yes, this! A master craftsman knows when to break the rules. I personally 
would not run a public web app using alpha software because I know my 
limitations, but I'm sure there are those who have both the skill to 
manage it and the wisdom to know whether or not to risk it.


> I'm confident of my own ability to keep up with changes, but for most
> people, I would strongly recommend taking, in order: (1) the Python that
> your distro provides; (2) a python.org published stable version; (3) a
> preproduction (eg RC) version; and finally (4) anything else, including
> straight from Mercurial. The further down that list you go, the more
> work you have to do yourself to ensure compatibility, dependency
> management, etcetera.

+1


-- 
Steven

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#59392 — Re: Using alpha software in production [was Re: Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a]

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
> Yes, this! A master craftsman knows when to break the rules. I personally
> would not run a public web app using alpha software because I know my
> limitations...

+1. Plenty of people know that a master knows when to break the
rules... the flip side is that a master also knows when NOT to break
the rules. I'll run a trunk build of Pike, and I might of Python, but
I wouldn't run a pre-alpha version of Apache, nor of the Linux kernel,
nor pretty much anything else on my system. That is, not in
production. There are all sorts of things that I'll happily do in a
VM, where the consequences of totally hosing the system are "Oh dear,
now I have to restore from a snapshot". :)

For what it's worth, I've been running 3.4 builds for a while - not in
production, but only because my production box is actually a rather
ancient and very stable machine and I have no reason yet to change
anything. It's looking fairly good, but I'd say the change from 3.3 to
3.4 is a lot less exciting for me than the change from 3.2 to 3.3.
(Though asyncio may invert that valuation, once I dig into it enough
to find out how fun it is.)

ChrisA

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#59428

Will someone please tell me how to install 'pip'

My website is not working because modules are missing and the only way i 
can install them is by installing python's module manager 'pip'

but 'yum install python-pip' fails.

How would i install the damn thing?

These action should be done via package managers but i wasn't ven able 
to install python 3.4a like that, i had to compile it form source when 
the easy thing to do was "yum install python3"

what wrong with this 'yum' manager?

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#59433

On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 12:50 AM, Nick the Gr33k <nikos@superhost.gr> wrote:
> These action should be done via package managers but i wasn't ven able to
> install python 3.4a like that, i had to compile it form source when the easy
> thing to do was "yum install python3"
>
> what wrong with this 'yum' manager?

With yum you get whatever yum is carrying. If you build from source,
you're on your own. You chose to build from source. Now you're on your
own. Have fun. Get to know what it takes to run your own system,
without the package manager's help (or rather, without as much of the
package manager's help). These are Linux system administration
questions, NOT Python questions.

ChrisA

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#59469

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Nov 14, 2013 5:55 AM, "Nick the Gr33k" <nikos@superhost.gr> wrote:
>
> Will someone please tell me how to install 'pip'
>
> My website is not working because modules are missing and the only way i
can install them is by installing python's module manager 'pip'
>
> but 'yum install python-pip' fails.
>
> How would i install the damn thing?
>
> These action should be done via package managers but i wasn't ven able to
install python 3.4a like that, i had to compile it form source when the
easy thing to do was "yum install python3"
>
> what wrong with this 'yum' manager?
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

package managers assume that they are the only thing installing software on
your system. Any python related package you install through yum will only
be compiled for and installed to the versions of python that you can get
through yum. If you want to compile python outside they package manager,
you'll also have to install all the libraries outside of the package
manager.

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