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Groups > comp.lang.python > #58567 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Νίκος Γκρ33κ <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2013-11-06 17:25 +0200 |
| Last post | 2013-11-16 10:40 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 220 — 47 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.python
To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Γκρ33κ <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-06 17:25 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-11-06 10:34 -0500
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-11-07 21:20 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-11-07 14:39 -0700
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 11:32 +1000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-08 09:15 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 11:34 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 20:52 +1100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-08 09:52 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 12:00 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Maarten <maarten.sneep@knmi.nl> - 2013-11-08 03:08 -0800
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2013-11-09 00:12 +1100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 15:48 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-11-08 14:55 +0100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 12:05 -0500
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-08 13:30 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 15:57 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-08 14:09 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-11-08 15:44 +0100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-08 10:00 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 21:09 +1100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-08 13:40 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-08 14:02 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 17:15 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-08 16:06 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 18:28 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database unknown <unknown@unknown.com> - 2013-11-08 16:48 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 18:57 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database unknown <unknown@unknown.com> - 2013-11-08 17:01 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 19:09 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 12:16 -0500
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Ned Deily <nad@acm.org> - 2013-11-08 09:26 -0800
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-11-08 20:30 +0100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database unknown <unknown@unknown.com> - 2013-11-08 16:10 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-11-08 16:46 +0100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database aurelien@xload.io (Aurélien DESBRIÈRES) - 2013-11-08 14:56 +0100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-11-07 16:45 -0500
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 00:18 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 09:45 +1100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 09:46 +1100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 00:56 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 10:04 +1100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 01:10 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-11-07 23:18 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 01:28 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 10:32 +1100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Larry Hudson <orgnut@yahoo.com> - 2013-11-08 00:42 -0800
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 18:19 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 21:18 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-08 09:12 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Steve Simmons <square.steve@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 01:10 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 18:22 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-08 09:06 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-06 15:40 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Steve Simmons <square.steve@gmail.com> - 2013-11-06 18:02 +0100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-06 17:30 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Γκρ33κ <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-06 23:26 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2013-11-06 21:51 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-06 22:11 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-11-06 22:22 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2013-11-06 16:34 -0600
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-07 09:54 +1100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-11-07 13:43 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-06 23:52 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-07 10:57 +1100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-07 00:11 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-11-06 16:22 -0800
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2013-11-06 21:07 -0600
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-07 12:00 +1100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-11-06 23:06 -0500
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2013-11-07 06:09 -0600
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database bob gailer <bgailer@gmail.com> - 2013-11-07 07:19 -0500
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-07 16:27 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Ferrous Cranus <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-07 01:01 -0800
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Ferrous Cranus <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-07 01:13 -0800
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Jussi Piitulainen <jpiitula@ling.helsinki.fi> - 2013-11-07 11:35 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Steve Simmons <square.steve@gmail.com> - 2013-11-07 09:15 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Ferrous Cranus <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-07 01:31 -0800
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-07 10:06 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-07 15:46 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 00:59 +1100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-07 16:16 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 01:33 +1100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-11-07 14:58 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2013-11-07 16:13 +0100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-11-07 19:22 -0500
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-07 15:47 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-07 16:34 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-07 19:42 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-07 18:11 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-11-07 18:28 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-11-07 11:45 -0500
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-07 19:45 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-11-07 21:29 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 00:31 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database ishish <ishish@domhain.de> - 2013-11-08 00:32 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Johannes Findeisen <mailman@hanez.org> - 2013-11-06 23:28 +0100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2013-11-06 18:19 -0500
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 10:20 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 19:31 +1100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 10:59 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-08 09:19 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 11:37 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-08 09:58 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 04:59 -0500
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 11:39 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-08 09:55 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 12:05 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 21:13 +1100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-11-08 14:27 +0100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-08 13:31 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-11-08 14:53 +0100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-11-08 09:11 -0800
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-09 05:08 +1100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 19:15 -0800
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 20:24 -0800
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-11-11 14:47 -0800
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-11-11 18:49 -0500
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-11-11 22:24 -0800
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2013-11-12 05:30 -0600
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-12 00:03 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-11-11 17:16 -0800
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2013-11-12 18:21 +1300
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-12 09:34 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-12 20:35 +1100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-11-12 11:20 +0100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-11-11 22:31 -0800
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-11-12 10:09 +0100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-11-12 03:23 -0800
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-11-12 18:22 +0100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-12 23:25 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-11-12 06:02 -0700
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-11-12 17:27 +0100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-11-13 00:41 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-11-13 09:08 +0100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Ferrous Cranus <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-13 23:46 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-11-13 13:52 -0800
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Ferrous Cranus <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-14 12:46 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-14 12:32 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Ferrous Cranus <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-14 15:24 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> - 2013-11-14 13:30 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-15 00:27 +1100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-14 13:56 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-11-12 14:26 -0700
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-11-12 13:59 -0800
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-11-12 16:27 -0700
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-12 23:38 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Ferrous Cranus <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-13 13:14 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-11-13 12:37 +0100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-11-12 16:54 -0700
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-13 00:04 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-11-12 17:19 -0800
Bullying [was Re: To whoever hacked into my Database] Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-11-13 03:40 +0000
Re: Bullying [was Re: To whoever hacked into my Database] Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-11-13 07:22 -0700
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-11-13 10:08 +0100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-11-13 05:38 -0700
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-11-13 07:10 -0700
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-11-13 19:11 +0100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database superchromix <markb77@gmail.com> - 2013-11-13 10:27 -0800
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-11-13 10:30 -0800
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Steve Simmons <square.steve@gmail.com> - 2013-11-13 20:02 +0100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Zachary Ware <zachary.ware+pylist@gmail.com> - 2013-11-13 13:24 -0600
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-11-13 19:36 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database William Ray Wing <wrw@mac.com> - 2013-11-13 15:11 -0500
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-11-13 19:54 -0500
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-08 21:23 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-11-08 20:23 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Dotan Cohen <dotancohen@gmail.com> - 2013-11-12 11:37 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-11-08 19:06 -0500
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-09 00:14 +0000
Relational data model, relations, and relationships (was: To whoever hacked into my Database) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-11-09 11:34 +1100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-11-08 19:03 -0500
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-09 07:54 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-09 08:16 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-09 17:20 +1100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-09 08:32 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-09 17:37 +1100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-09 09:05 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-09 09:54 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-09 10:31 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-09 19:39 +1100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-09 10:46 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-09 10:50 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-11-09 15:07 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-09 18:58 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-09 18:59 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database ishish <ishish@domhain.de> - 2013-11-10 01:44 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-10 12:42 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-11-09 16:32 +0100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-10 09:20 +1100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-10 12:32 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-11-10 14:49 +0100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-10 17:01 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-10 15:09 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-11-10 16:28 +0100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-11-10 08:15 -0800
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-11-10 20:13 +0100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-10 19:58 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Petite Abeille <petite.abeille@gmail.com> - 2013-11-10 18:57 +0100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-10 20:46 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Petite Abeille <petite.abeille@gmail.com> - 2013-11-10 20:16 +0100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-10 21:21 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Petite Abeille <petite.abeille@gmail.com> - 2013-11-10 20:32 +0100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Rod Person <rodperson@rodperson.com> - 2013-11-10 14:54 -0500
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2013-11-10 21:41 +0100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Rod Person <rodperson@rodperson.com> - 2013-11-10 15:44 -0500
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Rod Person <rodperson@rodperson.com> - 2013-11-10 15:50 -0500
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-11 10:36 +1100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-10 14:45 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-10 17:12 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-10 15:24 +0000
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-09 08:35 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-09 17:45 +1100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-09 09:11 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-09 18:19 +1100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-09 09:44 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-09 18:57 +1100
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-11 11:36 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Ferrous Cranus <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-11-12 15:37 +0200
Re: To whoever hacked into my Database Robert Day <robert.day@merton.oxon.org> - 2013-11-16 10:40 +0000
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| From | Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-11-14 13:30 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2589.1384435842.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #59425 |
On 2013-11-14 13:24, Ferrous Cranus wrote: > But the response wasn't clear to me. > Ia this randomly normal background Internet radiation or some personal directed > attacks? We don't know. This is not the appropriate forum for such questions. Please find a different forum for your server administration questions. Try this one: http://serverfault.com/ -- Robert Kern "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." -- Umberto Eco
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| From | Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-11-15 00:27 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2590.1384435889.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #59425 |
On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 12:24 AM, Ferrous Cranus <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> wrote: > But the response wasn't clear to me. > Ia this randomly normal background Internet radiation or some personal > directed attacks? This is not a Python question. You have to judge for yourself whether the antagonism you've created here and elsewhere has merited a directed attack, or if it's likely to be just drive-by attacks. Computer security is a field on which we could discourse for hours... but not on this list unless it's particularly Python-related. ChrisA
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| From | Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-11-14 13:56 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <gE4hu.113632$5L5.90079@fx17.am4> |
| In reply to | #59425 |
On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 15:24:32 +0200, Ferrous Cranus wrote: > Στις 14/11/2013 2:32 μμ, ο/η Alister έγραψε: >> On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 12:46:29 +0200, Ferrous Cranus wrote: >>>> This must have happened when i was handling my root passwords out in >>>> the open. >>>> >>>> Served me well. >>> >> At least you seem to be learning this lesson >>> >>> >>> Can somebody explain to me why there is so many failed attempts to >>> login into my linux server under various user accounts? >>> >>> http://i.imgur.com/5PaZAWu.png >>> >>> I mean is this some normal background radiation of the Internet or is >>> something directed to me? >>> >>> Does this happen on your servers at this extend too? >> >> any open ports on the internet are likely to attract attention of the >> 'Black Hats' >> this is why you have been advised to check your firewall settings you >> should only expose the ports that are absolutely necessary >> >> for a web server these would be 80 & 443 >> >> currently you have many other services also open that probably should >> not be. >> if you check the logs for those services you will probably find even >> more login attempts (I hope they have failed) > > > Yes i have more ports open as 'nmap' reports but don't forget that i'm > running cPanel for my customers, hence more ports need to be opened for > cPanel and WHM use, let alone mail and sshd. > > But the response wasn't clear to me. > Ia this randomly normal background Internet radiation or some personal > directed attacks? As others have said this is no longer python related & i am not going to answer any further. -- The brain is a wonderful organ; it starts working the moment you get up in the morning, and does not stop until you get to work.
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| From | Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-11-12 14:26 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2489.1384291609.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #59157 |
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 9:27 AM, Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> wrote: > Op 12-11-13 14:02, Ian Kelly schreef: >> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 2:09 AM, Antoon Pardon >> <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> wrote: >>> So you are complaining about people being human. Yes that is >>> how people tend to react when they continualy are frustrated >>> by someone who refuses to show the slightest cooperation. >>> So no rejecting such responses, particullarly by the person >>> who caused them is not right. It is defelecting the blame from >>> the primal cause. >> >> As you say you're a human, not a sheep, so stop pointing at the >> behavior of others to justify your own. > > No, because often enough what is justifiable and what is not > depends on the context and what happened before. Morals are > generally not absolute so that a particular action would be > either right or wrong no matter what the circumstances. I never claimed that they are. That doesn't mean that when somebody misbehaves, you can do whatever you want in retaliation without regard for others who might be involved. >> "But he started it" wasn't an >> excuse in kindergarten, and it still isn't one now. > > Then that kindergarten teacher was lousy at her job and would > probably let the bullies maninupulate her in punishing their > victems. That is what you get if you unconditionally tell > people that "he started it" can't be an excuse. Yes, when one kid is yelling at another kid because the second kid pulled the first kid's hair, the teacher should just ignore the yelling because, after all, "he started it." I'm sure that won't cause any disruption in the classroom at all, and having one kid yelling probably isn't going to set any of the others off, is it? As for letting the "bullies" (which I'll take as a metaphor for trolls, since I've not once seen Nikos act like a bully) get away with things, none of these threads have been about pursuing any sort of justice, so don't try to frame the discussion as if they are. >> Somebody has to >> accept the responsibility to walk away and break the positive feedback >> loop, or it will never end. And I can't see Nikos being the one to do >> that. > > Not my problem. Why do you come to me? I didn't contribute to this > thread for about two days. That is two days of various contributors > that didn't accept their responsibility and whom you left alone. > If it wasn't a problem then that the positive feedback loop was > maintained, then why is it a problem now? I'll start taking you > seriously when I see you tackling the specific behaviour in a > consistent manner instead of you tackling specific contributors. My apologies then for implying that you have been actively feeding the troll; I have not been paying attention to who is or isn't doing that. I replied to you because you've been very vocal on the topic, and because you wrote things that I wanted to respond to, not to single you out as the problem. I'm not going to individually address every single person who I think is contributing to the problem, because that's not my job and I don't have time for it. If you think that's not being fair, then that's tough, but this mailing list is not a kindergarten. We're all adults here, and I expect that others who are feeding the troll will have the maturity and self-awareness to recognize that what I wrote applies to them without me having to repeat myself a dozen times. > If you leave a thread alone for four days while various contributors > maintain a positive feedback loop then you are implicitly saying > that such behaviour is not a big problem. So don't come complaining > now. I've spoken up on this issue before. I'm not going to repetitively respond to every single post or even every single thread that I think is problematic. If I did that, then I would be part of the problem. As I said above, I chose to speak up now because you wrote things that I specifically wanted to respond to. For the most part however I prefer silence in the knowledge that making noise just invites more noise. For that reason you can expect that I will drop out of this thread again shortly, likely after this post. >>> That is correct but is expecting too much from people in general. >>> Expecting from frustrated people to act rational and constructive >>> is just a recipe for your own frustrations. >> >> In my experience, conduct follows from self esteem and self worth, and >> those things follow in turn from the respect and expectations of >> others. If I expect others to act like animals, then I disrespect >> them, and so why should they behave any differently toward me or in my >> presence? > > You are confusing realistic expectations with moralistic expeactations. > In some circumstances it is realistic to expect people to behave like > animals. You may see that as a sign of disrespect but that is because > you assigned it a moral judgement. > >> By expecting others to be rational and mature I show my >> respect for them, and so perhaps they will see fit to behave in a way >> to maintain that respect. > > No you are not showing respect that way. You are more likely unable > to empathise with the frustrations those people experience and are feeling > smug because you can handle it in such a "rational and mature" way. This has nothing to do with empathy. I can understand why others are frustrated and yet still expect them to control themselves. In my world, treating somebody like an adult is a mark of respect, and treating them otherwise is not. Part of treating somebody like an adult is expecting them to take responsibility for themselves. If you don't see things that way, then I think we have very different outlooks on life in general.
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| From | Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-11-12 13:59 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2493.1384296402.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #59157 |
On 11/12/2013 01:26 PM, Ian Kelly wrote: > > As for letting the "bullies" (which I'll take as a metaphor for > trolls, since I've not once seen Nikos act like a bully) Every time he uses foul language against somebody he's acting like a bully. Every time he reposts questions and ignores answers he's acting like a bully. Every time he declares that what he wants is the most important and so he is going to ignore our culture and the topic of this forum/ml/ng he is acting like a bully. If you haven't seen those posts, I have. Now you know. -- ~Ethan~
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| From | Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-11-12 16:27 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2507.1384298881.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #59157 |
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 2:59 PM, Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> wrote: > Every time he uses foul language against somebody he's acting like a bully. > > Every time he reposts questions and ignores answers he's acting like a > bully. > > Every time he declares that what he wants is the most important and so he is > going to ignore our culture and the topic of this forum/ml/ng he is acting > like a bully. > > If you haven't seen those posts, I have. Now you know. Per Wikipedia: "Bullying is the use of force, threat, or coercion to abuse, intimidate, or aggressively to impose domination over others. ... One essential prerequisite is the perception, by the bully or by others, of an imbalance of social or physical power." None of the behaviors that you cite are examples of bullying.
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| From | Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-11-12 23:38 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2508.1384299538.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #59157 |
On 12/11/2013 23:27, Ian Kelly wrote: > On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 2:59 PM, Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> wrote: >> Every time he uses foul language against somebody he's acting like a bully. >> >> Every time he reposts questions and ignores answers he's acting like a >> bully. >> >> Every time he declares that what he wants is the most important and so he is >> going to ignore our culture and the topic of this forum/ml/ng he is acting >> like a bully. >> >> If you haven't seen those posts, I have. Now you know. > > Per Wikipedia: "Bullying is the use of force, threat, or coercion to > abuse, intimidate, or aggressively to impose domination over others. > ... One essential prerequisite is the perception, by the bully or by > others, of an imbalance of social or physical power." > > None of the behaviors that you cite are examples of bullying. > What would you classify insulting my late mother as? -- Python is the second best programming language in the world. But the best has yet to be invented. Christian Tismer Mark Lawrence
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| From | Ferrous Cranus <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-11-13 13:14 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <l5vmvg$nj$1@news.grnet.gr> |
| In reply to | #59261 |
Στις 13/11/2013 1:38 πμ, ο/η Mark Lawrence έγραψε: > On 12/11/2013 23:27, Ian Kelly wrote: >> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 2:59 PM, Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> wrote: >>> Every time he uses foul language against somebody he's acting like a >>> bully. >>> >>> Every time he reposts questions and ignores answers he's acting like a >>> bully. >>> >>> Every time he declares that what he wants is the most important and >>> so he is >>> going to ignore our culture and the topic of this forum/ml/ng he is >>> acting >>> like a bully. >>> >>> If you haven't seen those posts, I have. Now you know. >> >> Per Wikipedia: "Bullying is the use of force, threat, or coercion to >> abuse, intimidate, or aggressively to impose domination over others. >> ... One essential prerequisite is the perception, by the bully or by >> others, of an imbalance of social or physical power." >> >> None of the behaviors that you cite are examples of bullying. >> > > What would you classify insulting my late mother as? > I apologize for that and of course by that time i didn't knew this info about your mother. But please recall how many times and in what degree you insulted me (let alone others insulting me simultaneously) prior of me loosing my temper and spoke the way i did. When the pressure is too high and i'm having difficulties on solving something and all i get back are collective insults instead of actual help i let some steam off. But my insults should have been explicitly directed at you, not at your mother.
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| From | Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-11-13 12:37 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2533.1384351541.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #59296 |
Op 13-11-13 12:14, Ferrous Cranus schreef: > Στις 13/11/2013 1:38 πμ, ο/η Mark Lawrence έγραψε: >> On 12/11/2013 23:27, Ian Kelly wrote: >>> >> >> What would you classify insulting my late mother as? >> > > > I apologize for that and of course by that time i didn't knew this info > about your mother. > > But please recall how many times and in what degree you insulted me (let > alone others insulting me simultaneously) prior of me loosing my temper > and spoke the way i did. > > When the pressure is too high and i'm having difficulties on solving > something and all i get back are collective insults instead of actual > help i let some steam off. You are again trying to spin this as if you are just the victim of bullies. But the fact is that you did get actual help. What you didn't get was a solution completely to your satisfaction. You also displayed no interest in actual learning but expected others to do your work. This is a pattern that is repeated numerous times and people are getting utterly fed up with it. So when you come around for yet another round of the same, frustration levels rise and people let off some steam. -- Antoon Pardon
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| From | Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-11-12 16:54 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2509.1384300495.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #59157 |
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 4:38 PM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > What would you classify insulting my late mother as? Rudeness. I'm not defending Nikos here, but let's not call it something that it isn't.
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| From | Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-11-13 00:04 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2510.1384301091.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #59157 |
On 12/11/2013 23:54, Ian Kelly wrote: > On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 4:38 PM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >> What would you classify insulting my late mother as? > > Rudeness. I'm not defending Nikos here, but let's not call it > something that it isn't. > Only being rude, well that's alright then, I take back everything I've ever said about him. Not. -- Python is the second best programming language in the world. But the best has yet to be invented. Christian Tismer Mark Lawrence
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| From | Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-11-12 17:19 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2520.1384306958.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #59157 |
On 11/12/2013 03:27 PM, Ian Kelly wrote: > On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 2:59 PM, Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> wrote: >> Every time he uses foul language against somebody he's acting like a bully. >> >> Every time he reposts questions and ignores answers he's acting like a >> bully. >> >> Every time he declares that what he wants is the most important and so he is >> going to ignore our culture and the topic of this forum/ml/ng he is acting >> like a bully. >> >> If you haven't seen those posts, I have. Now you know. > > Per Wikipedia: "Bullying is the use of force, threat, or coercion to > abuse, intimidate, or aggressively to impose domination over others. > ... One essential prerequisite is the perception, by the bully or by > others, of an imbalance of social or physical power." So even though he is being verbally abusive, the fact that he's not standing over me with a stick makes him not a bully? We'll have to agree to disagree on this point. -- ~Ethan~
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| From | Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-11-13 03:40 +0000 |
| Subject | Bullying [was Re: To whoever hacked into my Database] |
| Message-ID | <5282f4a5$0$29980$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #59275 |
On Tue, 12 Nov 2013 17:19:43 -0800, Ethan Furman wrote: > On 11/12/2013 03:27 PM, Ian Kelly wrote: >> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 2:59 PM, Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> >> wrote: >>> Every time he uses foul language against somebody he's acting like a >>> bully. >>> >>> Every time he reposts questions and ignores answers he's acting like a >>> bully. >>> >>> Every time he declares that what he wants is the most important and so >>> he is going to ignore our culture and the topic of this forum/ml/ng he >>> is acting like a bully. >>> >>> If you haven't seen those posts, I have. Now you know. >> >> Per Wikipedia: "Bullying is the use of force, threat, or coercion to >> abuse, intimidate, or aggressively to impose domination over others. >> ... One essential prerequisite is the perception, by the bully or by >> others, of an imbalance of social or physical power." > > So even though he is being verbally abusive, the fact that he's not > standing over me with a stick makes him not a bully? > We'll have to agree to disagree on this point. Is "bullying" the new "terrorism", which in turn is the new "socialism"? That is, a meaningless term of opprobrium used on anything you don't like? That's what it sounds like to me. Nikos has practically no power in this community. He's one person, friendless in this community, with no social standing. His position is way down the bottom of what little pecking order a bunch of geeks has. Nobody looks up at him for guidance or for hints as to what sort of behaviour is acceptable. He has no Python know-how to withhold from those he doesn't approve of (or inclination to help others). He can't even force anyone to read his comments. I say this not to make him out to be the victim here, he is at least equally responsible for the position he is in, but to highlight the absurdity of claiming he is "bullying" anywhere here. Just because (generic) you are annoyed by Nikos, or even if your feelings are hurt because he called you a bad name or insulted your dead mother, doesn't mean you are the victim of bullying. Claiming the badge of victimhood for mild annoyances and hurt feelings is one of the least admirable parts of the politically-correct crowd, please don't emulate them. -- Steven
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| From | Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-11-13 07:22 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Bullying [was Re: To whoever hacked into my Database] |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2536.1384352583.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #59281 |
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 8:40 PM, Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> wrote: > Is "bullying" the new "terrorism", which in turn is the new "socialism"? > That is, a meaningless term of opprobrium used on anything you don't > like? That's what it sounds like to me. > > Nikos has practically no power in this community. He's one person, > friendless in this community, with no social standing. His position is > way down the bottom of what little pecking order a bunch of geeks has. > Nobody looks up at him for guidance or for hints as to what sort of > behaviour is acceptable. He has no Python know-how to withhold from those > he doesn't approve of (or inclination to help others). He can't even > force anyone to read his comments. I say this not to make him out to be > the victim here, he is at least equally responsible for the position he > is in, but to highlight the absurdity of claiming he is "bullying" > anywhere here. > > Just because (generic) you are annoyed by Nikos, or even if your feelings > are hurt because he called you a bad name or insulted your dead mother, > doesn't mean you are the victim of bullying. Claiming the badge of > victimhood for mild annoyances and hurt feelings is one of the least > admirable parts of the politically-correct crowd, please don't emulate > them. Well put. If I had seen your response earlier, I would not have written my own, because yours was much better written and more to the point..
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| From | Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-11-13 10:08 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2530.1384333729.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #59157 |
Op 12-11-13 22:26, Ian Kelly schreef: > On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 9:27 AM, Antoon Pardon > <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> wrote: >> Op 12-11-13 14:02, Ian Kelly schreef: >>> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 2:09 AM, Antoon Pardon >>> <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> wrote: >>>> So you are complaining about people being human. Yes that is >>>> how people tend to react when they continualy are frustrated >>>> by someone who refuses to show the slightest cooperation. >>>> So no rejecting such responses, particullarly by the person >>>> who caused them is not right. It is defelecting the blame from >>>> the primal cause. >>> >>> As you say you're a human, not a sheep, so stop pointing at the >>> behavior of others to justify your own. >> >> No, because often enough what is justifiable and what is not >> depends on the context and what happened before. Morals are >> generally not absolute so that a particular action would be >> either right or wrong no matter what the circumstances. > > I never claimed that they are. What you said suggested it strongly enough to treat it as such. > That doesn't mean that when somebody > misbehaves, you can do whatever you want in retaliation without regard > for others who might be involved. But I didn't do whatever. What I did was similar in what others had been doing before. And while those others were doing it they received very little reaction. So why the reaction now? >>> "But he started it" wasn't an >>> excuse in kindergarten, and it still isn't one now. >> >> Then that kindergarten teacher was lousy at her job and would >> probably let the bullies maninupulate her in punishing their >> victems. That is what you get if you unconditionally tell >> people that "he started it" can't be an excuse. > > Yes, when one kid is yelling at another kid because the second kid > pulled the first kid's hair, the teacher should just ignore the > yelling because, after all, "he started it." I'm sure that won't > cause any disruption in the classroom at all, and having one kid > yelling probably isn't going to set any of the others off, is it? Thank you for making my point. You are concentrating completely on the yelling and ignoring that somebody pulled the yellers hair. So you have no problem with the teacher telling the yeller to stop it, while ignoring that the hair puller is largely ignored in this. > As for letting the "bullies" (which I'll take as a metaphor for > trolls, since I've not once seen Nikos act like a bully) get away with > things, none of these threads have been about pursuing any sort of > justice, so don't try to frame the discussion as if they are. No I'm just pointing out, that "he started it", can at times be important enough to at least create some understanding for why someone behaved in the way he did. >> Not my problem. Why do you come to me? I didn't contribute to this >> thread for about two days. That is two days of various contributors >> that didn't accept their responsibility and whom you left alone. >> If it wasn't a problem then that the positive feedback loop was >> maintained, then why is it a problem now? I'll start taking you >> seriously when I see you tackling the specific behaviour in a >> consistent manner instead of you tackling specific contributors. > > My apologies then for implying that you have been actively feeding the > troll; I have not been paying attention to who is or isn't doing that. > I replied to you because you've been very vocal on the topic, and > because you wrote things that I wanted to respond to, not to single > you out as the problem. I'm not going to individually address every > single person who I think is contributing to the problem, because > that's not my job and I don't have time for it. If you think that's > not being fair, then that's tough, but this mailing list is not a > kindergarten. We're all adults here, and I expect that others who are > feeding the troll will have the maturity and self-awareness to > recognize that what I wrote applies to them without me having to > repeat myself a dozen times. Well you can expect all you want. It is not going to happen. Your expectations are completely unrealistic and the way you react will be perceived by a number of people as just an attempt to getting those that are frustrated silenced without much care about what caused those frustrations. >> If you leave a thread alone for four days while various contributors >> maintain a positive feedback loop then you are implicitly saying >> that such behaviour is not a big problem. So don't come complaining >> now. > > I've spoken up on this issue before. I'm not going to repetitively > respond to every single post or even every single thread that I think > is problematic. If I did that, then I would be part of the problem. > As I said above, I chose to speak up now because you wrote things that > I specifically wanted to respond to. For the most part however I > prefer silence in the knowledge that making noise just invites more > noise. For that reason you can expect that I will drop out of this > thread again shortly, likely after this post. If you mostly keep silent, then the specific choice of message you choose to respond to, can be a very powerful if implicit message in itself. So if you choose to ignore the spoon feeders and others who blow life into a thread and make it flourish but then choose to react to those who later started to contribute after some time out of frustration or boredom with yet another of Nikos threads, you are sending a clear message that you don't have much of a problem with the first but you do have a big problem with the latter. You may not intend it, but that is what happens anyway. >>> By expecting others to be rational and mature I show my >>> respect for them, and so perhaps they will see fit to behave in a way >>> to maintain that respect. >> >> No you are not showing respect that way. You are more likely unable >> to empathise with the frustrations those people experience and are feeling >> smug because you can handle it in such a "rational and mature" way. > > This has nothing to do with empathy. I can understand why others are > frustrated and yet still expect them to control themselves. > > In my world, treating somebody like an adult is a mark of respect, and > treating them otherwise is not. It looks like in your world you have a very limited idea of how adults behave. Expecting the others to behave like adults has often enough been the strategy of the priveledged to ignore justified frustration. It is a win either way. If the frustration is uttered in an adult, mature way it doesn't cause much discomfort and is easily ignored. So when those who are frustrated see that being adult and mature doesn't get them much and start reacting a bit less adultly and maturely the frustration can now be dismissed as not being done in an adult and mature way. That is your goal here too. You are not interested in the frustrations of a number of people. You just want to be able to ignore there are frustrated people on the news group. > Part of treating somebody like an > adult is expecting them to take responsibility for themselves. If you > don't see things that way, then I think we have very different > outlooks on life in general. Part of treating somebody like an adult, is taking them seriously. Talking about taking responsibility as a code for demanding them to behave in a way that doesn't discomfort you is not treating somebody as an adult. -- Antoon Pardon
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| From | Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-11-13 05:38 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2534.1384351541.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #59157 |
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 6:19 PM, Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> wrote: > On 11/12/2013 03:27 PM, Ian Kelly wrote: >> >> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 2:59 PM, Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> wrote: >>> >>> Every time he uses foul language against somebody he's acting like a >>> bully. >>> >>> Every time he reposts questions and ignores answers he's acting like a >>> bully. >>> >>> Every time he declares that what he wants is the most important and so he >>> is >>> going to ignore our culture and the topic of this forum/ml/ng he is >>> acting >>> like a bully. >>> >>> If you haven't seen those posts, I have. Now you know. >> >> >> Per Wikipedia: "Bullying is the use of force, threat, or coercion to >> abuse, intimidate, or aggressively to impose domination over others. >> ... One essential prerequisite is the perception, by the bully or by >> others, of an imbalance of social or physical power." > > > So even though he is being verbally abusive, the fact that he's not standing > over me with a stick makes him not a bully? We'll have to agree to disagree > on this point. No, that's not my point. Who has more power in this social forum, you or Nikos? I don't condone Nikos' behavior in any way, but if anybody is acting like a bully here, it is the people attempting to intimidate and coerce him into leaving.
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| From | Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-11-13 07:10 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2535.1384351880.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #59157 |
On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 2:08 AM, Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> wrote: >> That doesn't mean that when somebody >> misbehaves, you can do whatever you want in retaliation without regard >> for others who might be involved. > > But I didn't do whatever. What I did was similar in what others > had been doing before. And while those others were doing it > they received very little reaction. So why the reaction now? I've already answered that, so as far as I can see you're only asking to be argumentative. >>>> "But he started it" wasn't an >>>> excuse in kindergarten, and it still isn't one now. >>> >>> Then that kindergarten teacher was lousy at her job and would >>> probably let the bullies maninupulate her in punishing their >>> victems. That is what you get if you unconditionally tell >>> people that "he started it" can't be an excuse. >> >> Yes, when one kid is yelling at another kid because the second kid >> pulled the first kid's hair, the teacher should just ignore the >> yelling because, after all, "he started it." I'm sure that won't >> cause any disruption in the classroom at all, and having one kid >> yelling probably isn't going to set any of the others off, is it? > > Thank you for making my point. You are concentrating completely > on the yelling and ignoring that somebody pulled the yellers hair. > So you have no problem with the teacher telling the yeller to stop > it, while ignoring that the hair puller is largely ignored in this. No, they both get detention. But I'm not going to bother addressing the hair puller about it in this case, because he is incorrigible. It would serve no purpose and only fan the flames. > Well you can expect all you want. It is not going to happen. Your > expectations are completely unrealistic and the way you react will > be perceived by a number of people as just an attempt to getting those > that are frustrated silenced without much care about what caused those > frustrations. There is absolutely nothing that I can do about what caused those frustrations, so what practical difference does it make whether I care or not? > It looks like in your world you have a very limited idea of how adults > behave. Expecting the others to behave like adults has often enough > been the strategy of the priveledged to ignore justified frustration. Nobody is being disenfranchised here. If you want to make this about privilege, then I will just say that I think it is the height of privilege to be fussing over the fact that there are people who annoy you on the internet, and moreover doing so to the detriment of the community. > It is a win either way. If the frustration is uttered in an adult, > mature way it doesn't cause much discomfort and is easily ignored. So > when those who are frustrated see that being adult and mature doesn't > get them much and start reacting a bit less adultly and maturely the > frustration can now be dismissed as not being done in an adult and > mature way. > > That is your goal here too. You are not interested in the frustrations > of a number of people. You just want to be able to ignore there are > frustrated people on the news group. It's not about me at all. If it were, I would be more likely to just unsubscribe than to raise a fuss about it. It's also not about you, and it's not even about Nikos. What it is about is that this crap about Nikos is often the first thing that newcomers will see when they join this group. You seem very concerned in your posts about what kind of message I'm sending by what I choose to respond to. Well, think about what kind of message it sends to a new user when their introduction to the group -- which is supposedly about Python -- is a lot of flaming directed at some poster whom they know nothing about. You keep trying to cast certain people who are frustrated by Nikos as victims in all this, but they're not. I think that all who have posted in this thread, and many who haven't, are probably all frustrated in one way or another by all this -- I know that I certainly am. The victims are the community as a whole, and anybody who decides not to join because they see this fracas and decide to seek out a more inviting forum. Here's my plea to everybody, in a nutshell. Remember that the name of this group is comp.lang.python. It's *not* alt.misc.flame.trolls.nikos.sucks. The topic here is Python, and if you want to talk about that, then welcome and please do. If on the other hand you just want to vent your frustration, then find somewhere else to do it. Please. I said I would be bowing out soon, and now I will. This argument is tiresome and seems only to be counter-productive. If these threads are still going on in another six months then I will probably speak up again, and we can rejoin this circus then.
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| From | Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-11-13 19:11 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2544.1384366321.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #59157 |
Op 13-11-13 15:10, Ian Kelly schreef: >> Well you can expect all you want. It is not going to happen. Your >> expectations are completely unrealistic and the way you react will >> be perceived by a number of people as just an attempt to getting those >> that are frustrated silenced without much care about what caused those >> frustrations. > > There is absolutely nothing that I can do about what caused those > frustrations, so what practical difference does it make whether I care > or not? If you want to persuade people to change their behaviour, it matters very much if you can show them you care. >> It looks like in your world you have a very limited idea of how adults >> behave. Expecting the others to behave like adults has often enough >> been the strategy of the priveledged to ignore justified frustration. > > Nobody is being disenfranchised here. If you want to make this about > privilege, then I will just say that I think it is the height of > privilege to be fussing over the fact that there are people who annoy > you on the internet, and moreover doing so to the detriment of the > community. Is it? Then why are you fussing here? Why don't you address the spoon feeders who frustrate other group members to the detriment of the community. >> It is a win either way. If the frustration is uttered in an adult, >> mature way it doesn't cause much discomfort and is easily ignored. So >> when those who are frustrated see that being adult and mature doesn't >> get them much and start reacting a bit less adultly and maturely the >> frustration can now be dismissed as not being done in an adult and >> mature way. >> >> That is your goal here too. You are not interested in the frustrations >> of a number of people. You just want to be able to ignore there are >> frustrated people on the news group. > > It's not about me at all. If it were, I would be more likely to just > unsubscribe than to raise a fuss about it. It's also not about you, > and it's not even about Nikos. What it is about is that this crap > about Nikos is often the first thing that newcomers will see when they > join this group. So? If this wasn't about you, this just wouldn't make a difference to you. > You seem very concerned in your posts about what > kind of message I'm sending by what I choose to respond to. Just making sure you were aware of that aspect as the rest of your contribution strongly suggested you were not. > Well, > think about what kind of message it sends to a new user when their > introduction to the group -- which is supposedly about Python -- is a > lot of flaming directed at some poster whom they know nothing about. Well one message obviously is that it is possible to annoy the regulars to the point that they start flaming you. I don't think that is bad. > You keep trying to cast certain people who are frustrated by Nikos as > victims in all this, but they're not. I think that all who have > posted in this thread, and many who haven't, are probably all > frustrated in one way or another by all this -- I know that I > certainly am. The victims are the community as a whole, The community as a whole suffers when its members get frustrated and one part of the community telling the other part to just deal with it is no way to turn the community into something welcoming again and is IMO more detrimental to the community than a number of people venting their frustration. You expect those that get frustrated to tolerate Nikos and to tolerate the spoon feeding, but you are unable to tolerate the venting of frustrations. > and anybody > who decides not to join because they see this fracas and decide to > seek out a more inviting forum. Why would they be a victim? What is there to be victim about seeking out a more inviting forum? I also think you are confusing a welcome community with a community without conflict. > Here's my plea to everybody, in a nutshell. Remember that the name of > this group is comp.lang.python. It's *not* > alt.misc.flame.trolls.nikos.sucks. It is also not alt.misc.keep.spoon.feeding.nikos. > The topic here is Python, and if > you want to talk about that, then welcome and please do. If on the > other hand you just want to vent your frustration, then find somewhere > else to do it. Please. But if you want to spoon feed a help vampire to the detriment of the group you can go right ahead? -- Antoon Pardon
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| From | superchromix <markb77@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-11-13 10:27 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <f995ded4-02ce-4a08-99f5-ea1c12e2275c@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #59323 |
hi all, I've been thinking about learning Python for scientific programming.. but all of these flame war type posts make the user community look pretty lame. How did all of these nice packages get written when most of the user interaction is .... this?? Can anyone tell me, is there another newsgroup where the discussion is more on python programming? thanks
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| From | Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-11-13 10:30 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <985b618d-cb68-4a16-a71a-9f253dbc4f98@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #59324 |
On Wednesday, November 13, 2013 1:27:39 PM UTC-5, superchromix wrote: > hi all, > > I've been thinking about learning Python for scientific programming.. but all of these flame war type posts make the user community look pretty lame. How did all of these nice packages get written when most of the user interaction is .... this?? > > Can anyone tell me, is there another newsgroup where the discussion is more on python programming? > > thanks I apologize for all of the flame wars. All online communities have to deal with negative forces in their midst, and we are no exception. It doesn't always go smoothly. Please start a new thread with your question about scientific programming. I promise it won't go badly. --Ned.
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