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Re: New to python, do I need an IDE or is vim still good enough?

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  Re: New to python, do I need an IDE or is vim still good enough? Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2013-01-05 12:38 +1100
    Re: New to python, do I need an IDE or is vim still good enough? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-01-04 20:59 -0500
      Re: New to python, do I need an IDE or is vim still good enough? Wayne Werner <wayne@waynewerner.com> - 2013-01-06 23:53 -0600

#36149 — Re: New to python, do I need an IDE or is vim still good enough?

On 01/04/13 01:34, Anssi Saari wrote:
| Just curious since I read the same thing in a programming book recently
| (21st century C). So what's the greatness that terminal multiplexors
| offer over tabbed terminals? Especially for software development?

Do you include tiling terminal emulators? I user iTerm2 a lot on Macs,
and it does both tabs (one terminal visible at a time, switch sideways
to change terminals) and tiling/panes: multiple terminals visible in
split panes within the current window.

So I have distinct windows, generally full screen, one per desktop, with
desktops for work zones. One a given desktop, just the one window with a
few panes panes and sometimes more tabs-with-panes.

So superficially, little need for screen or tmux.

However I use screen (tmux some time when I have time to learn to use
it) for the following:

  - named sessions:

    I've a small shell script called "scr" to do some common things with
    "screen". With no arguments:

      [/Users/cameron]fleet*> scr
          1    3455.ADZAPPER
          2   59094.CONSOLE_FW1
          3   28691.MACPORTS
          4    3649.PORTFWD

    So 4 named screen sessions. To join one "scr ADZAPPER", for example.

  - detached or at any rate detachable mail editing

    I've got my mutt editor set to a script that forked the new message
    editing in screen session named after the subject line. Normally I
    just compose and send, and that is seamless. But if I have to put
    things off for a complex or delayed message, I can just detahc from
    the session and be back in mutt to get on with other things.

    I imagine I could apply this more widely in some contexts.

Plenty of people use the split screen modes in screen or tmux; personally
I find this a little fiddly because focus-follows-mouse doesn't work
there (though I discovered the other day that vim's split modes can do
focus follow mouse:-)

But in a restricted environment (eg some hostile one with a crude
terminal emulator without these nice tabs/panes) the splitting can be
useful.

On 04Jan2013 10:59, Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> wrote:
| - the ability to monitor windows for activity/silence (at least GNU 
| Screen offered this; I haven't dug for it yet in tmux which I'm 
| learning).  This is nice for backgrounding a compile and being 
| notified when it goes silent (usually means it's done) or watching a 
| long-running quiet process to get notification when it finally has 
| some output.  I used this feature a LOT back when I did C/C++ work.

I used to do this:

  make foo; alert "MADE FOO (exit=$?)"

where "alert" is a personal script to do the obvious. On a Mac it pops
up a notification. Of course I need to do that at the start, alas.

I used to use iTerm's tab header colouring to notice idleness, and it
was very useful in certain circumstances, generally wordy and slow
startups of multiple things. Don't seem to do it much at present.

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au>

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#36150

In article <mailman.105.1357349909.2939.python-list@python.org>,
 Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> wrote:

> On 01/04/13 01:34, Anssi Saari wrote:
> | Just curious since I read the same thing in a programming book recently
> | (21st century C). So what's the greatness that terminal multiplexors
> | offer over tabbed terminals? Especially for software development?

There's no doubt that you need access to multiple terminal sessions.  
Whether you achieve that with multiple terminal windows on your desktop, 
multiple desktops, tabbed terminals, or something like screen is 
entirely personal preference.

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#36325

On Fri, 4 Jan 2013, Roy Smith wrote:

> In article <mailman.105.1357349909.2939.python-list@python.org>,
> Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> wrote:
>
>> On 01/04/13 01:34, Anssi Saari wrote:
>> | Just curious since I read the same thing in a programming book recently
>> | (21st century C). So what's the greatness that terminal multiplexors
>> | offer over tabbed terminals? Especially for software development?
>
> There's no doubt that you need access to multiple terminal sessions.
> Whether you achieve that with multiple terminal windows on your desktop,
> multiple desktops, tabbed terminals, or something like screen is
> entirely personal preference.

+1

I use a tiling WM (awesomewm), but I still find that tmux has its place. 
Usually I'll have a terminal per box that I'm working on, and a tmux 
session within that.

This allows me to detach and reattach from any system I'm on. In addition, 
if I lose my connection, I don't have to figure out which processes I had 
in bg. There's also the neat ability (at least with tmux - I haven't used 
screen for a while now) to work across sessions - so I might have a 
personal session (with things like alpine and irssi), a dev session (with 
Vim, a python prompt, and a shell) - and I can either keep them separate 
if I need to focus, or join the windows if I need some help.

One thing that I've noticed that tmux does poorly is handle the mouse for 
selecting. And as I haven't yet written or found a cross-platform/machine 
clipboard manager, using the tmux copy or xclip doesn't really help that 
much :P

I'd say the main benefit (aside from tiling) is the attach/detach. Unless 
your machine powers off or you kill tmux/screen, your sessions will stay 
around.

-W

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