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Unacceptable behavior

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  Unacceptable behavior Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2016-04-06 23:51 -0700
    Re: Unacceptable behavior Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 01:58 -0700
    Re: Unacceptable behavior Jeff Schumaker <schumakerj59@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 06:54 -0700
      Re: Unacceptable behavior Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 00:03 +1000
        Re: Unacceptable behavior breamoreboy@gmail.com - 2016-04-10 10:16 -0700
        Re: Unacceptable behavior Jeff Schumaker <schumakerj59@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 18:33 -0700
          Re: Unacceptable behavior Jeff Schumaker <schumakerj59@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 20:31 -0700
      Re: Unacceptable behavior Tim Golden <mail@timgolden.me.uk> - 2016-04-10 15:21 +0100
      Re: Unacceptable behavior breamoreboy@gmail.com - 2016-04-10 10:15 -0700
        Re: Unacceptable behavior Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-04-10 13:52 -0400
        Re: Unacceptable behavior Tim Golden <mail@timgolden.me.uk> - 2016-04-10 20:42 +0100
        Re: Unacceptable behavior Jeff Schumaker <schumakerj59@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 18:29 -0700
          Re: Unacceptable behavior Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2016-04-10 18:34 -0700

#106616 — Unacceptable behavior

On 04/05/2016 01:05 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

 > | >>> from email import ID10T

Thomas, as has been pointed out to you in previous threads it is not 
necessary to be rude to be heard.

You are hereby placed in moderation for the Python List mailing list.

Every one else:  If you see offensive posts from Thomas on the usenet 
side, please just ignore them.  I have no desire to see his posts in 
your replies.

--
~Ethan~
Python List Owners

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#106624

On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 12:20:32 PM UTC+5:30, Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 04/05/2016 01:05 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> 
>  > | >>> from email import ID10T
> 
> Thomas, as has been pointed out to you in previous threads it is not 
> necessary to be rude to be heard.
> 
> You are hereby placed in moderation for the Python List mailing list.
> 
> Every one else:  If you see offensive posts from Thomas on the usenet 
> side, please just ignore them.  I have no desire to see his posts in 
> your replies.
> 
> --
> ~Ethan~
> Python List Owners

Thanks for making the list more pleasant at the expense of increasing work for
yourself

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#106785

On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 2:50:32 AM UTC-4, Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 04/05/2016 01:05 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> 
>  > | >>> from email import ID10T
> 
> Thomas, as has been pointed out to you in previous threads it is not 
> necessary to be rude to be heard.
> 
> You are hereby placed in moderation for the Python List mailing list.
> 
> Every one else:  If you see offensive posts from Thomas on the usenet 
> side, please just ignore them.  I have no desire to see his posts in 
> your replies.
> 
> --
> ~Ethan~
> Python List Owners

Ethan,

As a new member of this group, I am not sure on how to report unacceptable behavior. If this is not the correct way, I apologize.

Please check the following thread:

Find the number of robots needed to walk through the rectangular grid

I believe there was some unnecessary rudeness on the part of one of the respondants to the original post

Jeff

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#106786

On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 11:54 PM, Jeff Schumaker <schumakerj59@gmail.com> wrote:
> As a new member of this group, I am not sure on how to report unacceptable behavior. If this is not the correct way, I apologize.
>
> Please check the following thread:
>
> Find the number of robots needed to walk through the rectangular grid
>
> I believe there was some unnecessary rudeness on the part of one of the respondants to the original post

My guess is you're talking about Mark Lawrence, and yes, I agree; he's
been fairly vitriolic.

The standard way to report abusive behaviour on mailing lists is to
contact the owner. For python-list@python.org, that's
python-list-owner@python.org, although the corresponding newsgroup
isn't really 'owned' in the same way.

ChrisA

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#106793

On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 3:03:37 PM UTC+1, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 11:54 PM, Jeff Schumaker <schumakerj59@gmail.com> wrote:
> > As a new member of this group, I am not sure on how to report unacceptable behavior. If this is not the correct way, I apologize.
> >
> > Please check the following thread:
> >
> > Find the number of robots needed to walk through the rectangular grid
> >
> > I believe there was some unnecessary rudeness on the part of one of the respondants to the original post
> 
> My guess is you're talking about Mark Lawrence, and yes, I agree; he's
> been fairly vitriolic.
> 
> The standard way to report abusive behaviour on mailing lists is to
> contact the owner. For python-list@python.org, that's
> python-list-owner@python.org, although the corresponding newsgroup
> isn't really 'owned' in the same way.
> 
> ChrisA

You were wrong, care to have another go?

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#106827

On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 10:03:37 AM UTC-4, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 11:54 PM, Jeff Schumaker wrote

> > As a new member of this group, I am not sure on how to report unacceptable behavior. If this is not the correct way, I apologize.
> >
> > Please check the following thread:
> >
> > Find the number of robots needed to walk through the rectangular grid
> >
> > I believe there was some unnecessary rudeness on the part of one of the respondants to the original post
> 
> My guess is you're talking about Mark Lawrence, and yes, I agree; he's
> been fairly vitriolic.
> 
> The standard way to report abusive behaviour on mailing lists is to
> contact the owner. 
> 
> ChrisA

No, this was a different poster. And, thanks, Chris, for the email address. I will give it a shot.

Jeff

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#106844

On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 9:33:47 PM UTC-4, Jeff Schumaker wrote:
> On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 10:03:37 AM UTC-4, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 11:54 PM, Jeff Schumaker wrote
> 
> > > As a new member of this group, I am not sure on how to report unacceptable behavior. If this is not the correct way, I apologize.
> > >
> > > Please check the following thread:
> > >
> > > Find the number of robots needed to walk through the rectangular grid
> > >
> > > I believe there was some unnecessary rudeness on the part of one of the respondants to the original post
> > 
> > My guess is you're talking about Mark Lawrence, and yes, I agree; he's
> > been fairly vitriolic.
> > 
> > The standard way to report abusive behaviour on mailing lists is to
> > contact the owner. 
> > 
> > ChrisA
> 
> No, this was a different poster. And, thanks, Chris, for the email address. I will give it a shot.
> 
> Jeff

I reread the thread. It was Mark. I mixed him up with the Thomas that was the person mentioned at the beginning of this thread. 

Jeff

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#106787

On 10/04/2016 15:03, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 11:54 PM, Jeff Schumaker <schumakerj59@gmail.com> wrote:
>> As a new member of this group, I am not sure on how to report unacceptable behavior. If this is not the correct way, I apologize.
>>
>> Please check the following thread:
>>
>> Find the number of robots needed to walk through the rectangular grid
>>
>> I believe there was some unnecessary rudeness on the part of one of the respondants to the original post
>
> My guess is you're talking about Mark Lawrence, and yes, I agree; he's
> been fairly vitriolic.
>
> The standard way to report abusive behaviour on mailing lists is to
> contact the owner. For python-list@python.org, that's
> python-list-owner@python.org, although the corresponding newsgroup
> isn't really 'owned' in the same way.

What Chris said: in the case of this list/newsgroup contact 
python-list-owner@python.org. If we decide to take action, and the 
person in question is coming in via Usenet, all we can do is block them 
at the gateway.

Be aware, though, that aside from patently unacceptable behaviour, we're 
not really interested in policing specific outbursts. People get hot 
under the collar, lose their cool, say things they might regret. And, 
thankfully, often come back a while later and apologise.

Where it's a case of persistent offensiveness and/or disruption to the 
list/newsgroup we'll consider pointing the fact out to the person in 
question and moderating their posts for a period. All we can do, really.

TJG

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#106792

On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 2:54:45 PM UTC+1, Jeff Schumaker wrote:
> On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 2:50:32 AM UTC-4, Ethan Furman wrote:
> > On 04/05/2016 01:05 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> > 
> >  > | >>> from email import ID10T
> > 
> > Thomas, as has been pointed out to you in previous threads it is not 
> > necessary to be rude to be heard.
> > 
> > You are hereby placed in moderation for the Python List mailing list.
> > 
> > Every one else:  If you see offensive posts from Thomas on the usenet 
> > side, please just ignore them.  I have no desire to see his posts in 
> > your replies.
> > 
> > --
> > ~Ethan~
> > Python List Owners
> 
> Ethan,
> 
> As a new member of this group, I am not sure on how to report unacceptable behavior. If this is not the correct way, I apologize.
> 
> Please check the following thread:
> 
> Find the number of robots needed to walk through the rectangular grid
> 
> I believe there was some unnecessary rudeness on the part of one of the respondants to the original post
> 
> Jeff

I'm been through the entire thread and haven't got the faintest idea what you're talking about. Or are you in the camp that believes when someone is too bone idle to do any work for themselves, and turns up here asking for us to write all of their code for them, we should kill the fatted calf, roll out the red carpet, and then write the code?

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#106794

On Sun, Apr 10, 2016, at 13:15, breamoreboy@gmail.com wrote:
> Or are you in the camp that believes when someone
> is too bone idle to do any work for themselves, and turns up here asking
> for us to write all of their code for them, we should kill the fatted
> calf, roll out the red carpet, and then write the code?

You can be polite while still saying no.

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#106798

On 10/04/2016 18:15, breamoreboy@gmail.com wrote:

[... snip Mark again, using a different address to avoid the moderation 
check ...]

Mark,

Please don't do this.

If you genuinely want this list to be a useful and friendly resource, 
which is what your posts suggest, then please step back and look at your 
own words and see whether they actually further that end.

As moderators, we don't intervene lightly or often. And it seems that 
the things for which we intervene (such as your repeated bolshy manner 
lately) are not the things for you which you would intervene (such as 
off-topic posts or ill-considered questions).

So be it. If this list isn't the thing you want it to be, and if its 
current moderators don't feel that it needs to change in the way you 
want it to change, then perhaps you should consider directing your 
undoubted energies elsewhere.

But please don't play cat-and-mouse just because you want to have the 
upper hand and get the last word. I said it before and I'll say it again 
here: have a little dignity and accept that your ideal is not everyone's 
and move on. Or be the better person and contribute usefully to the list 
as you've often done.

TJG

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#106825

On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 1:15:18 PM UTC-4, bream...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 2:54:45 PM UTC+1, Jeff Schumaker wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 2:50:32 AM UTC-4, Ethan Furman wrote:
> > > On 04/05/2016 01:05 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> > > 
> > >  > | >>> from email import ID10T
> > > 
> > > Thomas, as has been pointed out to you in previous threads it is not 
> > > necessary to be rude to be heard.
> > > 
> > > You are hereby placed in moderation for the Python List mailing list.
> > > 
> > > Every one else:  If you see offensive posts from Thomas on the usenet 
> > > side, please just ignore them.  I have no desire to see his posts in 
> > > your replies.
> > > 
> > > --
> > > ~Ethan~
> > > Python List Owners
> > 
> > Ethan,
> > 
> > As a new member of this group, I am not sure on how to report unacceptable behavior. If this is not the correct way, I apologize.
> > 
> > Please check the following thread:
> > 
> > Find the number of robots needed to walk through the rectangular grid
> > 
> > I believe there was some unnecessary rudeness on the part of one of the respondants to the original post
> > 
> > Jeff
> 
> I'm been through the entire thread and haven't got the faintest idea what you're talking about. Or are you in the camp that believes when someone is too bone idle to do any work for themselves, and turns up here asking for us to write all of their code for them, we should kill the fatted calf, roll out the red carpet, and then write the code?

Certainly not, but as Random832 says, you can politely say No.

I realize there is no minimum requirement for social etiquette to be a good programmer. Or a bad one, for that matter. But if the purpose of this group is to help others with Python, simple courtesy seems to be common sense.

Jeff

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#106828

On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 9:29:19 PM UTC-4, Jeff Schumaker wrote:
> On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 1:15:18 PM UTC-4, bream...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 2:54:45 PM UTC+1, Jeff Schumaker wrote:
> > > On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 2:50:32 AM UTC-4, Ethan Furman wrote:
> > > > On 04/05/2016 01:05 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> > > > 
> > > >  > | >>> from email import ID10T
> > > > 
> > > > Thomas, as has been pointed out to you in previous threads it is not 
> > > > necessary to be rude to be heard.
> > > > 
> > > > You are hereby placed in moderation for the Python List mailing list.
> > > > 
> > > > Every one else:  If you see offensive posts from Thomas on the usenet 
> > > > side, please just ignore them.  I have no desire to see his posts in 
> > > > your replies.
> > > > 
> > > > --
> > > > ~Ethan~
> > > > Python List Owners
> > > 
> > > Ethan,
> > > 
> > > As a new member of this group, I am not sure on how to report unacceptable behavior. If this is not the correct way, I apologize.
> > > 
> > > Please check the following thread:
> > > 
> > > Find the number of robots needed to walk through the rectangular grid
> > > 
> > > I believe there was some unnecessary rudeness on the part of one of the respondants to the original post
> > > 
> > > Jeff
> > 
> > I'm been through the entire thread and haven't got the faintest idea what you're talking about. Or are you in the camp that believes when someone is too bone idle to do any work for themselves, and turns up here asking for us to write all of their code for them, we should kill the fatted calf, roll out the red carpet, and then write the code?
> 
> Certainly not, but as Random832 says, you can politely say No.
> 
> I realize there is no minimum requirement for social etiquette to be a good programmer. Or a bad one, for that matter. But if the purpose of this group is to help others with Python, simple courtesy seems to be common sense.
> 
> Jeff

Jeff, you are right.  Mark's behavior has been getting more aggressive, and
less like what we encourage and hope for here.  He is not representing the
ideals of the Python community.  We are mostly helpful and nice. :)

--Ned.

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