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Groups > comp.lang.python > #103575 > unrolled thread
| Started by | wrong.address.1@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-02-27 03:18 -0800 |
| Last post | 2016-03-01 19:46 -0800 |
| Articles | 13 on this page of 113 — 30 participants |
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Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? wrong.address.1@gmail.com - 2016-02-27 03:18 -0800
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-02-27 22:36 +1100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-02-27 04:02 -0800
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-02-27 23:07 +1100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-02-28 17:34 +1100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-02-27 23:39 -0800
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-02-28 19:49 +1100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-02-28 19:44 +1100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-02-28 02:25 -0800
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-02-28 21:34 +1100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2016-02-29 00:08 +1100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-02-28 05:13 -0800
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2016-02-29 00:24 +1100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-02-28 05:49 -0800
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Chris Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2016-02-28 15:00 +0100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-02-28 06:11 -0800
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Chris Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2016-02-28 15:26 +0100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-02-28 08:50 -0800
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-02-29 11:39 +1100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-02-29 11:54 +1100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-02-29 12:05 +1100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-02-29 12:13 +1100
Lineendings (was Everything good about Python except GUI IDE?) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-02-28 17:39 -0800
Re: Lineendings (was Everything good about Python except GUI IDE?) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-02-29 12:49 +1100
Re: Lineendings (was Everything good about Python except GUI IDE?) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-02-28 17:55 -0800
Re: Lineendings (was Everything good about Python except GUI IDE?) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-02-29 13:02 +1100
Re: Lineendings (was Everything good about Python except GUI IDE?) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-02-28 18:08 -0800
Re: Lineendings (was Everything good about Python except GUI IDE?) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-02-29 13:35 +1100
Re: Lineendings (was Everything good about Python except GUI IDE?) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-02-28 20:48 -0800
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-02-28 17:09 +0000
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-02-28 11:56 -0500
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2016-03-02 20:44 +1100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-02-28 23:50 +1100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-02-29 04:53 +1100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-02-29 13:22 +1100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-02-29 17:40 +1300
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? "Sven R. Kunze" <srkunze@mail.de> - 2016-02-28 13:23 +0100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-02-28 12:38 +0000
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-02-28 04:54 -0800
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-02-28 13:07 +0000
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-02-28 05:20 -0800
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-02-28 15:51 +0200
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-02-28 06:03 -0800
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-02-28 14:29 +0000
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-02-29 11:49 +1100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-02-29 11:56 +0000
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2016-02-28 19:49 -0500
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-02-28 17:08 +0200
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-02-28 08:41 -0800
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-02-28 23:38 +0200
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2016-02-29 15:47 +1100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-02-29 08:18 +0200
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-02-28 23:20 -0800
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-02-29 19:20 +1100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-02-29 10:37 +0200
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-02-29 15:43 +0000
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-01 03:17 +1100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-02-29 18:17 +0000
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-01 05:31 +1100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-02-29 10:25 +0200
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-02-29 19:33 +1100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-02-29 10:46 +0200
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-02 03:44 +1100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-02 05:07 +1100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-02 13:22 +1100
Speaking of Javascript [was Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE?] Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-03 04:05 +1100
Re: Speaking of Javascript [was Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE?] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-03 04:46 +1100
Re: Speaking of Javascript [was Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE?] Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2016-03-02 18:29 +0000
Re: Speaking of Javascript [was Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE?] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-03 07:55 +1100
Re: Speaking of Javascript [was Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE?] Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2016-03-02 22:01 +0000
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2016-02-29 21:33 -0500
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-01 15:31 +1100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2016-03-02 20:44 +1100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-03-02 13:57 +0200
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-02-29 11:14 +1100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-02-28 12:08 -0500
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-02 03:35 +1100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-03-01 20:06 +0200
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2016-03-01 11:30 -0800
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2016-03-01 11:39 -0800
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-02 12:51 +1100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-02 13:15 +1100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-03-02 07:41 +0200
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-02 16:58 +1100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-03-02 10:20 +0200
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2016-03-02 23:00 +0100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-03-03 00:36 +0200
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Dietmar Schwertberger <maillist@schwertberger.de> - 2016-02-28 13:38 +0100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? cl@isbd.net - 2016-02-28 12:52 +0000
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Dietmar Schwertberger <maillist@schwertberger.de> - 2016-02-28 14:19 +0100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-02-28 12:03 -0500
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Dietmar Schwertberger <maillist@schwertberger.de> - 2016-02-28 18:41 +0100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-02-27 13:35 +0000
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? MWS <miragewebstudio12@gmail.com> - 2016-02-27 20:05 +0530
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Dietmar Schwertberger <maillist@schwertberger.de> - 2016-02-27 15:20 +0100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? wrong.address.1@gmail.com - 2016-02-27 10:13 -0800
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-02-28 05:29 +1100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-02-27 20:35 +0200
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Dietmar Schwertberger <maillist@schwertberger.de> - 2016-02-27 19:51 +0100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Dietmar Schwertberger <maillist@schwertberger.de> - 2016-02-28 00:20 +0100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2016-02-28 16:49 +1100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Sibylle Koczian <nulla.epistola@web.de> - 2016-02-28 11:46 +0100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Virgil Stokes <vs@it.uu.se> - 2016-02-28 12:26 +0100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Sibylle Koczian <nulla.epistola@web.de> - 2016-02-28 11:46 +0100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> - 2016-02-28 18:47 +0000
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Dietmar Schwertberger <maillist@schwertberger.de> - 2016-02-28 20:09 +0100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2016-02-28 18:24 -0700
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Mike S <mscir@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-02 23:27 -0800
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Marco Kaulea <marco.kaulea@gmail.com> - 2016-02-27 18:57 +0100
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Anthony Papillion <anthony@cajuntechie.org> - 2016-02-27 13:45 -0600
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-02-27 20:52 +0000
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2016-02-27 21:35 +0000
Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Mike <termim@gmail.com> - 2016-03-01 19:46 -0800
Page 6 of 6 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 [6]
| From | Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-02-28 16:49 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <o205db95r6cg2rqcfnv617d1maiqa25ilq@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #103597 |
wrong.address.1@gmail.com wrote: >On Saturday, 27 February 2016 18:08:36 UTC+2, Dietmar Schwertberger wrote: >> On 27.02.2016 12:18, wrong.address.1@gmail.com wrote: >> > Isn't there any good GUI IDE like Visual Basic? I hope there are some less well known GUI IDEs which I did not come across. Thanks. >> >> As of today, there's no Python GUI builder comparable to VB 6. >> > >Thanks for stating this clearly. Everyone here has been trying to show me various ways to do the kind of things I will want to, but nobody clearly admits the limitations I will have to accept if I start with Python. > >I am starting to wonder if VB.net would be a better solution for the time being. I have learnt enough VB.net to manage my work but it is bloated and Microsoft dependent. When I moved from VB "Classic" to new a language I chose Java. The Netbeans IDE includes a drag and drop WYSIWYG form designer similar to, but slightly better than, VB6 <https://netbeans.org/features/java-on-client/swing.html>. Alas, thick desktop applications are rapidly becoming out of date. When I chose Java it was the most popular language for commercial programming apart from .NET. I was subsequently tempted to move to Python because I have been programming for the Raspberry Pi and Python is the language of choice for the Pi. In addition I find Python more readable than Java. I have been deterred because, like VB, there are two distinct flavours and, unlike VB, there is no IDE with a form designer.
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| From | Sibylle Koczian <nulla.epistola@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-02-28 11:46 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.8.1456656414.9760.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #103597 |
Am 27.02.2016 um 19:13 schrieb wrong.address.1@gmail.com: > On Saturday, 27 February 2016 18:08:36 UTC+2, Dietmar Schwertberger wrote: >> On 27.02.2016 12:18, wrong.address.1@gmail.com wrote: >>> Isn't there any good GUI IDE like Visual Basic? I hope there are some less well known GUI IDEs which I did not come across. Thanks. >> >> As of today, there's no Python GUI builder comparable to VB 6. >> > > Thanks for stating this clearly. Everyone here has been trying to show me various ways to do the kind of things I will want to, but nobody clearly admits the limitations I will have to accept if I start with Python. > > I am starting to wonder if VB.net would be a better solution for the time being. I have learnt enough VB.net to manage my work but it is bloated and Microsoft dependent. > Might be quite a good idea. As much as I love Python myself, the WPF GUI builder is very nice. Layout done declaratively, xaml really well documented, and I can work directly with the xaml text and see what it does at the same time. Code completion works, which is quite important with those overlong .NET names. The xaml file only contains the properties of controls I've set myself, not all the default values. If I really want to, I can drag and drop. And the WPF has a reasonable geometry management, like PyQt, tkinter and PyGtk. But then it comes to writing the code and things start getting tedious. So, is there a GUI library for Python that lets me _write_ declarative GUI descriptions, separate from the Python code, but easily connected with it? Sibylle
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| From | Virgil Stokes <vs@it.uu.se> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-02-28 12:26 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.9.1456660540.9760.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #103597 |
On 2016-Feb-27 19:13, wrong.address.1@gmail.com wrote: > On Saturday, 27 February 2016 18:08:36 UTC+2, Dietmar Schwertberger wrote: >> On 27.02.2016 12:18, wrong.address.1@gmail.com wrote: >>> Isn't there any good GUI IDE like Visual Basic? I hope there are some less well known GUI IDEs which I did not come across. Thanks. >> As of today, there's no Python GUI builder comparable to VB 6. >> > Thanks for stating this clearly. Everyone here has been trying to show me various ways to do the kind of things I will want to, but nobody clearly admits the limitations I will have to accept if I start with Python. > > I am starting to wonder if VB.net would be a better solution for the time being. I have learnt enough VB.net to manage my work but it is bloated and Microsoft dependent. > >> There are some like QtDesigner or wxGlade, but they either don't >> generate Python code directly or they can only be used if you know the >> underlying toolkit good enough to create the GUI yourself. You may try >> out some, but I can almost guarantee you that you will come to the same >> result. >> If you want a GUI, create it yourself using either wxPython or PyQt. > I will check it. I got the impression that you can create a GUI but that has to be converted to Python, and then you need a wrapper to put these forms in, and then they can be compiled or converted to *.exe with py2exe. Not a good way for development/debugging. > >> For engineering applications that's probably the weakest point that >> Python has. >> It's holding back a lot of people... >> >> Well, for most measurement or control software a GUI is not really >> needed, but still people want it. >> > In the 1980s everyone was happy with inputs from the command line on a line editor, but today people expect GUIs with graphics and often even animations. > > It is surprising that a language which seems very popular does not have GUI development infrastructure in place these many years after it got into common use. > >> Regards, >> >> Dietmar I agree (at least largely) with the author of this email, in response to Dietmar. I have been working with Python for several years and often a GUI is needed, not by me; but, for users of my software where my target is usually numerical and image processing with a "don't make me think too much" GUI. I have mainly used wxPython (which is rather good, with good support); but, I find it rather awkward in practice and making an *.exe for users that includes wxPython is often a tedious process (at least from my own experiences). Perhaps my skills with wxPython and its API are lacking :-( . After re-reading some of the postings that are connected to GUI problems in the python-list, wxPython-users, and PyQT, it seems to me that an "improved IDLE" for Python might have helped to solve some of their problems. I am quite sure such a development would be well received by Python beginners and those migrating to Python from other languages (e.g. VB). While working on my first wxPython GUI project, I actually switched to VB to test my GUI design and to create an *.exe for the project --- this went rather fast, considering that I had no previous experience with VB. Only afterwards, did I return to wxPython, for implementation in Python 2.7, which took much longer with extensive refactoring. And Dietmar, please don't take this the wrong way, I also agree with some of the points that you have made. And I do like wxPython :-)
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| From | Sibylle Koczian <nulla.epistola@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-02-28 11:46 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.14.1456668060.9760.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #103597 |
Am 27.02.2016 um 19:13 schrieb wrong.address.1@gmail.com: > On Saturday, 27 February 2016 18:08:36 UTC+2, Dietmar Schwertberger wrote: >> On 27.02.2016 12:18, wrong.address.1@gmail.com wrote: >>> Isn't there any good GUI IDE like Visual Basic? I hope there are some less well known GUI IDEs which I did not come across. Thanks. >> >> As of today, there's no Python GUI builder comparable to VB 6. >> > > Thanks for stating this clearly. Everyone here has been trying to show me various ways to do the kind of things I will want to, but nobody clearly admits the limitations I will have to accept if I start with Python. > > I am starting to wonder if VB.net would be a better solution for the time being. I have learnt enough VB.net to manage my work but it is bloated and Microsoft dependent. > Might be quite a good idea. As much as I love Python myself, the WPF GUI builder is very nice. Layout done declaratively, xaml really well documented, and I can work directly with the xaml text and see what it does at the same time. Code completion works, which is quite important with those overlong .NET names. The xaml file only contains the properties of controls I've set myself, not all the default values. If I really want to, I can drag and drop. And the WPF has a reasonable geometry management, like PyQt, tkinter and PyGtk. But then it comes to writing the code and things start getting tedious. So, is there a GUI library for Python that lets me _write_ declarative GUI descriptions, separate from the Python code, but easily connected with it? Sibylle
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| From | mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-02-28 18:47 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <navf6r$lsk$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #103597 |
On 27/02/2016 18:13, wrong.address.1@gmail.com wrote: > On Saturday, 27 February 2016 18:08:36 UTC+2, Dietmar Schwertberger wrote: >> On 27.02.2016 12:18, wrong.address.1@gmail.com wrote: >>> Isn't there any good GUI IDE like Visual Basic? I hope there are some less well known GUI IDEs which I did not come across. Thanks. >> >> As of today, there's no Python GUI builder comparable to VB 6. >> > > Thanks for stating this clearly. Everyone here has been trying to show me various ways to do the kind of things I will want to, but nobody clearly admits the limitations I will have to accept if I start with Python. > > I am starting to wonder if VB.net would be a better solution for the time being. I have learnt enough VB.net to manage my work but it is bloated and Microsoft dependent. > >> There are some like QtDesigner or wxGlade, but they either don't >> generate Python code directly or they can only be used if you know the >> underlying toolkit good enough to create the GUI yourself. You may try >> out some, but I can almost guarantee you that you will come to the same >> result. >> If you want a GUI, create it yourself using either wxPython or PyQt. > > I will check it. I got the impression that you can create a GUI but that has to be converted to Python, and then you need a wrapper to put these forms in, and then they can be compiled or converted to *.exe with py2exe. Not a good way for development/debugging. > >> >> For engineering applications that's probably the weakest point that >> Python has. >> It's holding back a lot of people... >> >> Well, for most measurement or control software a GUI is not really >> needed, but still people want it. >> > > In the 1980s everyone was happy with inputs from the command line on a line editor, but today people expect GUIs with graphics and often even animations. > > It is surprising that a language which seems very popular does not have GUI development infrastructure in place these many years after it got into common use. > >> >> Regards, >> >> Dietmar > I'm no C# expert but I inherited the support of some C# projects. One uses a form to hold the UI objects. When the program is loaded in VS, you see the form and you can drag and drop objects to the form and edit the object properties (text, font, colours etc.). The result of your visual work is rendered in the C# source with some code folding options. If you don't click the folds in the editor you don't get to see that the form editor generates the C# code you need to call to generate the objects. There are suitable comments through the generated code warning you not to edit it as it is regenerated etc. The result is you use a visual tool to generate the boiler plate code. Knowing MS tools I'd be very suprised if the same idea is not used in VB. Somewhere there will be a text file with the VB boilerplate code to generate the form. You need to locate that and use it to drive your VB to Python conversion process. I'd write myself a script that takes the autogenerated source and converts it to Python. You may need to polish the output but if you have hundreds of objects this sounds to be simpler and quicker than starting from scratch. This is from my experience using C# with ASP.NET and .Net 4.0+ and VS2010 Professional. I think I've played with VS2013 Pro and it's the same. YMMV.
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| From | Dietmar Schwertberger <maillist@schwertberger.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-02-28 20:09 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.22.1456686611.9760.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #103656 |
On 28.02.2016 19:47, mm0fmf wrote: > I'm no C# expert but I inherited the support of some C# projects. One > uses a form to hold the UI objects. When the program is loaded in VS, > you see the form and you can drag and drop objects to the form and > edit the object properties (text, font, colours etc.). The result of > your visual work is rendered in the C# source with some code folding > options. If you don't click the folds in the editor you don't get to > see that the form editor generates the C# code you need to call to > generate the objects. There are suitable comments through the > generated code warning you not to edit it as it is regenerated etc. > > The result is you use a visual tool to generate the boiler plate code. > Knowing MS tools I'd be very suprised if the same idea is not used in > VB. Somewhere there will be a text file with the VB boilerplate code > to generate the form. The VB 6 setup was different. GUI editor, IDE and runtime were tightly integrated. In VB 6, you don't see such boiler plate code. You only see the form, the textual representation of the form and the code that you enter into the event handlers etc. The form is then rendered by the VB runtime. But what you outlined for C# is probably the way that the ideal Python GUI editor would go. When you think about how a RAD tool could look like and how to integrate with IDEs, you automatically come to such a setup with comments as markers/separators for the automatically generated code. Regards, Dietmar
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| From | Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-02-28 18:24 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.2.1456709646.2321.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #103597 |
On 02/27/2016 11:13 AM, wrong.address.1@gmail.com wrote: > On Saturday, 27 February 2016 18:08:36 UTC+2, Dietmar Schwertberger >> As of today, there's no Python GUI builder comparable to VB 6. > Thanks for stating this clearly. Everyone here has been trying to > show me various ways to do the kind of things I will want to, but > nobody clearly admits the limitations I will have to accept if I > start with Python. Every language and environment has limitations and tradeoffs, including the venerable VB6 model. In my opinion, no one including Microsoft has ever duplicated the functionality of VB6. > I am starting to wonder if VB.net would be a better solution for the > time being. I have learnt enough VB.net to manage my work but it is > bloated and Microsoft dependent. Maybe you should post a small VB6 project on github (something that isn't very secret and could be licensed in an open way perhaps) and then see if we can come together here on the forum to convert it to Python using one of the various GUI toolkits. Could be a fun challenge and would be instructive to you. >> There are some like QtDesigner or wxGlade, but they either don't >> generate Python code directly or they can only be used if you know >> the underlying toolkit good enough to create the GUI yourself. You >> may try out some, but I can almost guarantee you that you will come >> to the same result. If you want a GUI, create it yourself using >> either wxPython or PyQt. > > I will check it. I got the impression that you can create a GUI but > that has to be converted to Python, and then you need a wrapper to > put these forms in, and then they can be compiled or converted to > *.exe with py2exe. Not a good way for development/debugging. You are laboring under some misconceptions in general I think. All the GUI designers talked about here work with XML definition files (each has its own flavor) and then either generate Python code from it, or you can load the XML file at runtime and the GUI is created under the hood from that (similar to .nib files on OS X). Compiling to .exe is an entirely different matter. If you think Python will help you easily create .exes you might be barking up the wrong tree. Python is an interpreted language (soon to be JIT'ed with PyPy). It's not a compiler. You can edit and run the python files directly for debugging. You can use py2exe to create a final executable if you want, but this is not compiling and it won't keep your code secret. > In the 1980s everyone was happy with inputs from the command line on > a line editor, but today people expect GUIs with graphics and often > even animations. Qt does this very well with less and less programming all the time. QtQuick and QML can define pretty nice transitions and animations that can then be combined with Python programming. But there's more than one way to do things. I use a program called Glade3 for doing GTK+ apps in Python (I only use Linux). In PyQt I use the amazing QtDesigner. > It is surprising that a language which seems very popular does not > have GUI development infrastructure in place these many years after > it got into common use. Well it's just that the infrastructure is very different than you're used to. There are lots of different choices. I think it turns out that a VB6-style IDE just has never been necessarily for the vast majority of Python programmers. And there are very fancy, complicated GUI apps written in Python. For example, the calibre ebook management program is a nice GUI with animations like coverflow, and it's entirely in Python and PyQt. I'm sure the author uses Qt Designer to do GUI layout.
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| From | Mike S <mscir@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-03-02 23:27 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <nb8org$trd$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #103597 |
On 2/27/2016 10:13 AM, wrong.address.1@gmail.com wrote: > On Saturday, 27 February 2016 18:08:36 UTC+2, Dietmar Schwertberger wrote: >> On 27.02.2016 12:18, wrong.address.1@gmail.com wrote: >>> Isn't there any good GUI IDE like Visual Basic? I hope there are some less well known GUI IDEs which I did not come across. Thanks. >> >> As of today, there's no Python GUI builder comparable to VB 6. >> > > Thanks for stating this clearly. Everyone here has been trying to show me various ways to do the kind of things I will want to, but nobody clearly admits the limitations I will have to accept if I start with Python. > > I am starting to wonder if VB.net would be a better solution for the time being. I have learnt enough VB.net to manage my work but it is bloated and Microsoft dependent. > >> There are some like QtDesigner or wxGlade, but they either don't >> generate Python code directly or they can only be used if you know the >> underlying toolkit good enough to create the GUI yourself. You may try >> out some, but I can almost guarantee you that you will come to the same >> result. >> If you want a GUI, create it yourself using either wxPython or PyQt. > > I will check it. I got the impression that you can create a GUI but that has to be converted to Python, and then you need a wrapper to put these forms in, and then they can be compiled or converted to *.exe with py2exe. Not a good way for development/debugging. > >> >> For engineering applications that's probably the weakest point that >> Python has. >> It's holding back a lot of people... >> >> Well, for most measurement or control software a GUI is not really >> needed, but still people want it. >> > > In the 1980s everyone was happy with inputs from the command line on a line editor, but today people expect GUIs with graphics and often even animations. > It is surprising that a language which seems very popular does not have GUI development infrastructure in place these many years after it got into common use. > >> Regards, >> Dietmar FWIW, I have a lot of VB6 experience, and while I was reluctant to do it I did write some VB.NET programs and I have to say, MS did a good job with the VS IDE, of course they spent a lot of money on it. I'm learning Python to see if I want to do AI/ML work with it because I don't want to use Azure, but I'm going to keep using VB6 and VB.NET for desktop programs where development time and a GUI is needed, just my preference based on my experience.
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| From | Marco Kaulea <marco.kaulea@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-02-27 18:57 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.188.1456598958.20994.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #103575 |
Hi, Haven't tried it myself, but pyforms[1] might suit your needs. - Marco [1] http://pyforms.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 12:18 PM, <wrong.address.1@gmail.com> wrote: > I have some VB forms with more than a hundred objects. If I cannot drag > and drop text boxes, list boxes, labels, etc., it will be too much work to > create that with several lines of code for each object. > Isn't there any good GUI IDE like Visual Basic? I hope there are some less > well known GUI IDEs which I did not come across. Thanks. >
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| From | Anthony Papillion <anthony@cajuntechie.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-02-27 13:45 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.191.1456602381.20994.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #103575 |
I would absolutely recommend you take a look at the Qt stuff. Very modern, easy to use, and free for non-commercial products. Anthony On February 27, 2016 5:18:57 AM CST, wrong.address.1@gmail.com wrote: >I have some VB forms with more than a hundred objects. If I cannot drag >and drop text boxes, list boxes, labels, etc., it will be too much work >to create that with several lines of code for each object. > >Isn't there any good GUI IDE like Visual Basic? I hope there are some >less well known GUI IDEs which I did not come across. Thanks. >-- >https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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| From | Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-02-27 20:52 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.192.1456606372.20994.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #103575 |
On 27/02/2016 17:57, Marco Kaulea wrote: > Hi, > > Haven't tried it myself, but pyforms[1] might suit your needs. > > - Marco > > [1] http://pyforms.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ > PyForms 0.1.3 last updated on pypi 2016-01-17 and it's 2.7 only, just awesome, not. -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence
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| From | MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-02-27 21:35 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.193.1456609090.20994.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #103575 |
On 2016-02-27 20:52, Mark Lawrence wrote: > On 27/02/2016 17:57, Marco Kaulea wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Haven't tried it myself, but pyforms[1] might suit your needs. >> >> - Marco >> >> [1] http://pyforms.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ >> > > PyForms 0.1.3 last updated on pypi 2016-01-17 and it's 2.7 only, just > awesome, not. > It's a little ambiguous. It says "Pyforms is a Python 2.7.x and 3.x cross-enviroment framework", but the Requirements list Python 2.7 only.
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| From | Mike <termim@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-03-01 19:46 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <682982e7-33b5-4c6b-9757-3aeaf3f19c3b@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #103575 |
On Saturday, February 27, 2016 at 6:19:21 AM UTC-5, wrong.a...@gmail.com wrote:
> I have some VB forms with more than a hundred objects. If I cannot drag and drop text boxes, list boxes, labels, etc., it will be too much work to create that with several lines of code for each object.
>
> Isn't there any good GUI IDE like Visual Basic? I hope there are some less well known GUI IDEs which I did not come across. Thanks.
I'd recommend PyQt/PySide and Eric as an IDE:
http://eric-ide.python-projects.org/index.html
Eric has good integration with QtDesigner - you can create forms in designer
like in VB and it will automatically generate python code for it or you
can load *.ui files dynamically. The project management and VCS integration
is also very convenient.
Regards,
Mikhail
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