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Blue Screen Python

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  Blue Screen Python mikcec82 <michele.cecere@gmail.com> - 2012-09-21 07:04 -0700
    Re: Blue Screen Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-22 00:29 +1000
    Re: Blue Screen Python Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-09-21 15:14 +0000
      Re: Blue Screen Python Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2012-09-21 16:01 +0000
        Re: Blue Screen Python Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2012-09-21 16:02 +0000
        Re: Blue Screen Python Dave Angel <d@davea.name> - 2012-09-21 18:47 -0400
          Re: Blue Screen Python Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2012-09-22 10:53 +0000
            Re: Blue Screen Python Dave Angel <d@davea.name> - 2012-09-22 07:44 -0400
              Re: Blue Screen Python 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-09-22 05:19 -0700
              Re: Blue Screen Python 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-09-22 05:19 -0700
              Re: Blue Screen Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-22 13:07 +0000
                Re: Blue Screen Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-23 00:10 +1000
                  Re: Blue Screen Python 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-09-23 04:17 -0700
                  Re: Blue Screen Python 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-09-23 04:17 -0700
            Re: Blue Screen Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-22 13:53 +0100
    Re: Blue Screen Python mikcec82 <michele.cecere@gmail.com> - 2012-10-09 00:37 -0700
      Re: Blue Screen Python Philipp Hagemeister <phihag@phihag.de> - 2012-10-09 12:32 +0200
    Re: Blue Screen Python mikcec82 <michele.cecere@gmail.com> - 2012-10-09 05:10 -0700
    Re: Blue Screen Python mikcec82 <michele.cecere@gmail.com> - 2012-10-22 06:15 -0700

#29638 — Blue Screen Python

Hallo to all,

I'm using Python 2.7.3 with Windows 7 @ 64 bit
and an Intel Core i3 -2350M CPU @2.30GHz 2.3GHz.

Sometimes, when I'm programming in Python on my screen compare this blue screen:
http://imageshack.us/a/img228/8352/48579647436249494527021.jpg

Can you help on what is the issue, and how I can solve it?

If you need more info I'm available.

Thank you so much,
Michele

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#29641

On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 12:04 AM, mikcec82 <michele.cecere@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hallo to all,
>
> I'm using Python 2.7.3 with Windows 7 @ 64 bit
> and an Intel Core i3 -2350M CPU @2.30GHz 2.3GHz.
>
> Sometimes, when I'm programming in Python on my screen compare this blue screen:
> http://imageshack.us/a/img228/8352/48579647436249494527021.jpg
>
> Can you help on what is the issue, and how I can solve it?
>
> If you need more info I'm available.

Ouch, that's not fun. I've never actually seen Python bsod by itself.
My first guesses are:

1) It's a buggy library that you're using with Python. Do you know
what modules your code calls on? Mainly ones that aren't part of the
standard library.

2) It's unrelated, but maybe triggered somehow. For instance, your
Python program might be consuming a lot of RAM, which causes a problem
when you make use of a faulty bit of memory somewhere in the higher
addresses.

Have you run a RAM test on that machine? This is a well-respected one:
http://www.memtest.org/

Alternatively, can you narrow the problem down to a particular script
that will repeatedly cause the BSOD?

ChrisA

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#29646

On 2012-09-21, mikcec82 <michele.cecere@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hallo to all,
>
> I'm using Python 2.7.3 with Windows 7 @ 64 bit and an Intel Core i3
> -2350M CPU @2.30GHz 2.3GHz.
>
> Sometimes, when I'm programming in Python on my screen compare this
> blue screen:
> http://imageshack.us/a/img228/8352/48579647436249494527021.jpg
>
> Can you help on what is the issue, and how I can solve it?

IMO, the easiest waht to avoid those is by not running Windows.  ;)

Python is a user-space application.  User-space applications can't
cause blue-screens unless they manage to trigger a bug in hardware, OS
kernel, or device driver.

The solution is usually to fix the hardware, OS, or device driver.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! I'm having an
                                  at               emotional outburst!!
                              gmail.com            

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#29650

On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 15:14:53 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:

> On 2012-09-21, mikcec82 <michele.cecere@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hallo to all,
>>
>> I'm using Python 2.7.3 with Windows 7 @ 64 bit and an Intel Core i3
>> -2350M CPU @2.30GHz 2.3GHz.
>>
>> Sometimes, when I'm programming in Python on my screen compare this
> Python is a user-space application.  User-space applications can't cause
> blue-screens unless they manage to trigger a bug in hardware, OS kernel,
> or device driver.

But Windows does not have any true concept of user-space (although it 
does make an almost convincing pretence) it has been hacked up from an 
operating system that's original security model was "Lock the door when 
you leave the office"




-- 
Watch all-night Donna Reed reruns until your mind resembles oatmeal.

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#29651

On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 16:01:16 +0000, Alister wrote:

> On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 15:14:53 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
>> On 2012-09-21, mikcec82 <michele.cecere@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hallo to all,
>>>
>>> I'm using Python 2.7.3 with Windows 7 @ 64 bit and an Intel Core i3
>>> -2350M CPU @2.30GHz 2.3GHz.
>>>
>>> Sometimes, when I'm programming in Python on my screen compare this
>> Python is a user-space application.  User-space applications can't
>> cause blue-screens unless they manage to trigger a bug in hardware, OS
>> kernel,
>> or device driver.
> 
> But Windows does not have any true concept of user-space (although it
> does make an almost convincing pretence) it has been hacked up from an
> operating system that's original security model was "Lock the door when
> you leave the office"

on a slightly more helpful front try adding break points to your code to 
see what part is actually causing the crash 



-- 
Whenever I feel like exercise, I lie down until the feeling passes.

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#29696

On 09/21/2012 12:01 PM, Alister wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 15:14:53 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> On 2012-09-21, mikcec82 <michele.cecere@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hallo to all,
>>>
>>> I'm using Python 2.7.3 with Windows 7 @ 64 bit and an Intel Core i3
>>> -2350M CPU @2.30GHz 2.3GHz.
>>>
>>> Sometimes, when I'm programming in Python on my screen compare this
>> Python is a user-space application.  User-space applications can't cause
>> blue-screens unless they manage to trigger a bug in hardware, OS kernel,
>> or device driver.

True.  Too bad there are so many of those bugs.

> But Windows does not have any true concept of user-space (although it 
> does make an almost convincing pretence) it has been hacked up from an 
> operating system that's original security model was "Lock the door when 
> you leave the office"
>

That's not true at all.  You're thinking of Windows 3, Windows 95, 98,
and ME, which were hacked on top of MSDOS.  But Windows NT3.5, 4, 2000,
XP, Vista and Windows 7 have an entirely different bloodline.

NT 3.51 was actually very robust, but in 4.0 to gain better performance,
they apparently did some compromising in the video driver's isolation. 
And who knows what's happened since then.



-- 

DaveA

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#29736

On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 18:47:57 -0400, Dave Angel wrote:

> On 09/21/2012 12:01 PM, Alister wrote:
>> On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 15:14:53 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
>>
>>> On 2012-09-21, mikcec82 <michele.cecere@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hallo to all,
>>>>
>>>> I'm using Python 2.7.3 with Windows 7 @ 64 bit and an Intel Core i3
>>>> -2350M CPU @2.30GHz 2.3GHz.
>>>>
>>>> Sometimes, when I'm programming in Python on my screen compare this
>>> Python is a user-space application.  User-space applications can't
>>> cause blue-screens unless they manage to trigger a bug in hardware, OS
>>> kernel,
>>> or device driver.
> 
> True.  Too bad there are so many of those bugs.
> 
>> But Windows does not have any true concept of user-space (although it
>> does make an almost convincing pretence) it has been hacked up from an
>> operating system that's original security model was "Lock the door when
>> you leave the office"
>>
>>
> That's not true at all.  You're thinking of Windows 3, Windows 95, 98,
> and ME, which were hacked on top of MSDOS.  But Windows NT3.5, 4, 2000,
> XP, Vista and Windows 7 have an entirely different bloodline.
> 
> NT 3.51 was actually very robust, but in 4.0 to gain better performance,
> they apparently did some compromising in the video driver's isolation.
> And who knows what's happened since then.

Although NT upwards has tried to introduce user-space requirements the 
need to maintain backwards compatibility has compromised these efforts.
it is not helped by the end user's (just look at what happened to Vista's 
attempt to make users authorise any changes to the system)



-- 
VMS, n.:
	The world's foremost multi-user adventure game.

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#29743

On 09/22/2012 06:53 AM, Alister wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 18:47:57 -0400, Dave Angel wrote:
>
>> <SNIP>
>>
>> That's not true at all.  You'd re thinking of Windows 3, Windows 95, 98,
>> and ME, which were hacked on top of MSDOS.  But Windows NT3.5, 4, 2000,
>> XP, Vista and Windows 7 have an entirely different bloodline.
>>
>> NT 3.51 was actually very robust, but in 4.0 to gain better performance,
>> they apparently did some compromising in the video driver's isolation.
>> And who knows what's happened since then.
> Although NT upwards has tried to introduce

Your wording seems to imply that you still think NT was built on some
earlier MS product.  It was written from scratch by a team recruited
mostly from outside MS, including the leader, a guy who was I think
experienced in VMS development.  The names escape me right now.  But
there were a couple of books, by Helen someone, I think, which helped us
outsiders understand some of the philosophies of the development.

>  user-space requirements the 
> need to maintain backwards compatibility has compromised these efforts.
> it is not helped by the end user's (just look at what happened to Vista's 
> attempt to make users authorise any changes to the system)
>
>
I don't see any connection between memory address space user models and
user security models.

-- 

DaveA

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#29745

Dave Angel於 2012年9月22日星期六UTC+8下午7時44分54秒寫道：
> On 09/22/2012 06:53 AM, Alister wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 18:47:57 -0400, Dave Angel wrote:
> 
> >
> 
> >> <SNIP>
> 
> >>
> 
> >> That's not true at all.  You'd re thinking of Windows 3, Windows 95, 98,
> 
> >> and ME, which were hacked on top of MSDOS.  But Windows NT3.5, 4, 2000,
> 
> >> XP, Vista and Windows 7 have an entirely different bloodline.
> 
> >>
> 
> >> NT 3.51 was actually very robust, but in 4.0 to gain better performance,
> 
> >> they apparently did some compromising in the video driver's isolation.
> 
> >> And who knows what's happened since then.
> 
> > Although NT upwards has tried to introduce
> 
> 
> 
> Your wording seems to imply that you still think NT was built on some
> 
> earlier MS product.  It was written from scratch by a team recruited
> 
> mostly from outside MS, including the leader, a guy who was I think
> 
> experienced in VMS development.  The names escape me right now.  But
> 
> there were a couple of books, by Helen someone, I think, which helped us
> 
> outsiders understand some of the philosophies of the development.
> 
> 
> 
> >  user-space requirements the 
> 
> > need to maintain backwards compatibility has compromised these efforts.
> 
> > it is not helped by the end user's (just look at what happened to Vista's 
> 
> > attempt to make users authorise any changes to the system)
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> I don't see any connection between memory address space user models and
> 
> user security models.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> DaveA

I tested MS NT in 1998-2002. I was pleased by the results to run real
multi-tasking processes at that time. I ran some linux machines 
at that time, too.

Anyway the heap walker problems in all the unix and linux systems
were very obvious in those years. 

My conclusion at that time was people from DEC were really good in the OS.
 

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#29746

Dave Angel於 2012年9月22日星期六UTC+8下午7時44分54秒寫道：
> On 09/22/2012 06:53 AM, Alister wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 18:47:57 -0400, Dave Angel wrote:
> 
> >
> 
> >> <SNIP>
> 
> >>
> 
> >> That's not true at all.  You'd re thinking of Windows 3, Windows 95, 98,
> 
> >> and ME, which were hacked on top of MSDOS.  But Windows NT3.5, 4, 2000,
> 
> >> XP, Vista and Windows 7 have an entirely different bloodline.
> 
> >>
> 
> >> NT 3.51 was actually very robust, but in 4.0 to gain better performance,
> 
> >> they apparently did some compromising in the video driver's isolation.
> 
> >> And who knows what's happened since then.
> 
> > Although NT upwards has tried to introduce
> 
> 
> 
> Your wording seems to imply that you still think NT was built on some
> 
> earlier MS product.  It was written from scratch by a team recruited
> 
> mostly from outside MS, including the leader, a guy who was I think
> 
> experienced in VMS development.  The names escape me right now.  But
> 
> there were a couple of books, by Helen someone, I think, which helped us
> 
> outsiders understand some of the philosophies of the development.
> 
> 
> 
> >  user-space requirements the 
> 
> > need to maintain backwards compatibility has compromised these efforts.
> 
> > it is not helped by the end user's (just look at what happened to Vista's 
> 
> > attempt to make users authorise any changes to the system)
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> I don't see any connection between memory address space user models and
> 
> user security models.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> DaveA

I tested MS NT in 1998-2002. I was pleased by the results to run real
multi-tasking processes at that time. I ran some linux machines 
at that time, too.

Anyway the heap walker problems in all the unix and linux systems
were very obvious in those years. 

My conclusion at that time was people from DEC were really good in the OS.
 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#29748

On Sat, 22 Sep 2012 07:44:24 -0400, Dave Angel wrote:

[...]
> Your wording seems to imply that you still think NT was built on some
> earlier MS product.  It was written from scratch by a team recruited
> mostly from outside MS, including the leader, a guy who was I think
> experienced in VMS development.

I believe you are thinking of Dave Cutler, who wasn't just experienced in 
VMS development, he invented VMS. He also helped design the VAX, hated 
Unix with a passion, and killed off the RSTS operating system. He's now 
working on the Xbox.

Windows NT was one of the reasons the IBM and Microsoft fell out. IBM and 
Microsoft partnered to build a new generation operating system, OS/2. 
Microsoft blew through a whole lot of IBM's money, produced something 
that they called version 1 but was more like version 0.1 (it only did 
text applications and had no GUI). They did eventually bring out a 1.1 
version with a GUI, a year later.

As per their partnership agreement, IBM took over development of OS/2 
version 2 while Microsoft worked on developing version 3. OS/2 2.0 was 
significantly improved over the 1.x series.

Then Microsoft reneged on the agreement to release OS/2 version 3, and 
instead re-badged it as Windows NT. One might say there was a little bit 
of bad blood over this, especially as IBM had good reason to think that 
Microsoft had been spending IBM's money on NT.


-- 
Steven

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#29753

On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 11:07 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
> As per their partnership agreement, IBM took over development of OS/2
> version 2 while Microsoft worked on developing version 3. OS/2 2.0 was
> significantly improved over the 1.x series.
>
> Then Microsoft reneged on the agreement to release OS/2 version 3, and
> instead re-badged it as Windows NT. One might say there was a little bit
> of bad blood over this, especially as IBM had good reason to think that
> Microsoft had been spending IBM's money on NT.

And ever since then, Microsoft's been doing its best to kill OS/2 off.
By the look of the database server sitting next to me, and the clients
scattered throughout the building, it seems they have yet to
succeed...

OS/2 and Linux interoperate quite happily, too. Standards FTW.

ChrisA

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#29806

Chris Angelico於 2012年9月22日星期六UTC+8下午10時10分12秒寫道：
> On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 11:07 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> 
> <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
> 
> > As per their partnership agreement, IBM took over development of OS/2
> 
> > version 2 while Microsoft worked on developing version 3. OS/2 2.0 was
> 
> > significantly improved over the 1.x series.
> 
> >
> 
> > Then Microsoft reneged on the agreement to release OS/2 version 3, and
> 
> > instead re-badged it as Windows NT. One might say there was a little bit
> 
> > of bad blood over this, especially as IBM had good reason to think that
> 
> > Microsoft had been spending IBM's money on NT.
> 
> 
> 
> And ever since then, Microsoft's been doing its best to kill OS/2 off.
> 
> By the look of the database server sitting next to me, and the clients
> 
> scattered throughout the building, it seems they have yet to
> 
> succeed...
> 
> 
> 
> OS/2 and Linux interoperate quite happily, too. Standards so .
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisA

This is off topic in this forum. But we are getting so far at the MMU part. 
A cpu with an L1 and  an L2  caches of large sizes is better to be
equipped with  a VMS like OS in the thread and the heap managements.


But if the situation is different, some other alternative approaches
might be more appropriate.

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#29807

Chris Angelico於 2012年9月22日星期六UTC+8下午10時10分12秒寫道：
> On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 11:07 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> 
> <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
> 
> > As per their partnership agreement, IBM took over development of OS/2
> 
> > version 2 while Microsoft worked on developing version 3. OS/2 2.0 was
> 
> > significantly improved over the 1.x series.
> 
> >
> 
> > Then Microsoft reneged on the agreement to release OS/2 version 3, and
> 
> > instead re-badged it as Windows NT. One might say there was a little bit
> 
> > of bad blood over this, especially as IBM had good reason to think that
> 
> > Microsoft had been spending IBM's money on NT.
> 
> 
> 
> And ever since then, Microsoft's been doing its best to kill OS/2 off.
> 
> By the look of the database server sitting next to me, and the clients
> 
> scattered throughout the building, it seems they have yet to
> 
> succeed...
> 
> 
> 
> OS/2 and Linux interoperate quite happily, too. Standards so .
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisA

This is off topic in this forum. But we are getting so far at the MMU part. 
A cpu with an L1 and  an L2  caches of large sizes is better to be
equipped with  a VMS like OS in the thread and the heap managements.


But if the situation is different, some other alternative approaches
might be more appropriate.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#29747

On 22/09/2012 12:44, Dave Angel wrote:

>
> Your wording seems to imply that you still think NT was built on some
> earlier MS product.  It was written from scratch by a team recruited
> mostly from outside MS, including the leader, a guy who was I think
> experienced in VMS development.  The names escape me right now.  But
> there were a couple of books, by Helen someone, I think, which helped us
> outsiders understand some of the philosophies of the development.
>

IIRC many of the people involved had VMS experience.  Apparantly M$ 
decided they needed a team who knew something about designing and 
implementing operating systems :)

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.

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#31001

Il giorno venerdì 21 settembre 2012 16:04:48 UTC+2, mikcec82 ha scritto:
> Hallo to all,
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using Python 2.7.3 with Windows 7 @ 64 bit
> 
> and an Intel Core i3 -2350M CPU @2.30GHz 2.3GHz.
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes, when I'm programming in Python on my screen compare this blue screen:
> 
> http://imageshack.us/a/img228/8352/48579647436249494527021.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> Can you help on what is the issue, and how I can solve it?
> 
> 
> 
> If you need more info I'm available.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you so much,
> 
> Michele

Hi to all,
and thanks for your answers.

I'm not using a buggy library.
Yesterday I have another BSOD...but I was using only "OS" library.

I have also tested memory using memtest, but there wasn't errors.

In my script I open and close an html (in a FOR cycle); could be this the problem?

Or is it possible that Python 2.7 is not compatible with Win7?

Thank you very much to you.

Have a good day,
Michele

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#31002

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 10/09/2012 09:37 AM, mikcec82 wrote:
> In my script I open and close an html (in a FOR cycle); could be this the problem?
Unless you're running your Python script as a kernel driver (and you
can't do that accidentally), there is no way that your user-space
program should cause a bluescreen. This is an error in Windows (or one
of the drivers), not in Python or your program.

What you can do is insert your Windows DVD, boot from it, and click Repair.

> Or is it possible that Python 2.7 is not compatible with Win7?
No, even if a user-space program could legitimately cause a bluescreen,
Python 2.7 still works fine one thousands of Win7 machines.

Cheers,

Philipp

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#31012

Il giorno venerdì 21 settembre 2012 16:04:48 UTC+2, mikcec82 ha scritto:
> Hallo to all,
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using Python 2.7.3 with Windows 7 @ 64 bit
> 
> and an Intel Core i3 -2350M CPU @2.30GHz 2.3GHz.
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes, when I'm programming in Python on my screen compare this blue screen:
> 
> http://imageshack.us/a/img228/8352/48579647436249494527021.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> Can you help on what is the issue, and how I can solve it?
> 
> 
> 
> If you need more info I'm available.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you so much,
> 
> Michele

Thank you so much Philipp.
Now I am at work and I can't insert Windows DVD, but as soon as possible I'll done as you said and report you if the problem is solved or not.

Best regards,
Michele

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#31883

Il giorno venerdì 21 settembre 2012 16:04:48 UTC+2, mikcec82 ha scritto:
> Hallo to all,
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using Python 2.7.3 with Windows 7 @ 64 bit
> 
> and an Intel Core i3 -2350M CPU @2.30GHz 2.3GHz.
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes, when I'm programming in Python on my screen compare this blue screen:
> 
> http://imageshack.us/a/img228/8352/48579647436249494527021.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> Can you help on what is the issue, and how I can solve it?
> 
> 
> 
> If you need more info I'm available.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you so much,
> 
> Michele

Hi to all.

I solved the problem by creating a WINDOWS XP Virtual Machine (by installing Windows Remote Pc). In this way I have no more problems.

I hope this could be helpful to other people.

Have a nice day,
Michele

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