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Groups > comp.lang.python > #84181 > unrolled thread

Python is DOOMED! Again!

Started bySteven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info>
First post2015-01-22 15:30 +1100
Last post2015-01-30 02:11 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 277 — 34 participants

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Contents

  Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-22 15:30 +1100
    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 15:43 +1100
    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-21 21:35 -0800
      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-21 21:56 -0800
      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-01-22 06:12 +0000
    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Nicholas Cole <nicholas.cole@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 05:50 +0000
    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 16:56 +1100
    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2015-01-21 22:02 -0800
      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-22 18:23 +1100
        Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 09:10 +0100
          Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Nicholas Cole <nicholas.cole@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 09:37 +0000
            Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 20:10 +1000
          Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 21:09 +1100
            Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 10:37 +0000
              Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 21:44 +1100
                Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 11:06 +0000
              Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 12:24 -0800
            Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-23 01:57 +1100
              Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 02:13 +1100
          Python is DOOMED! Again! Nicholas Cole <nicholas.cole@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 10:46 +0000
          Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 21:50 +1100
            Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 11:12 +0000
              Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 23:14 +1100
          Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-23 01:16 +1100
            Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2015-01-22 14:33 +0000
            Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 02:11 +1100
              Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-23 21:59 +1100
                Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 22:38 +1100
                  Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-24 17:35 +1100
                    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-01-24 14:42 +0000
                      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-25 03:00 +1100
                        Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-25 03:27 +1100
                          Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-25 04:31 +1100
                            Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2015-01-24 12:46 -0600
                              Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-01-24 10:59 -0800
                              Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-25 13:22 +1100
                            Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-01-24 21:14 +0000
                              Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-01-24 14:51 -0700
                Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-01-24 23:30 +0100
                Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-01-26 17:00 +0000
                  Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-27 11:22 +1100
            Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-22 11:25 -0800
              Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-01-22 19:56 +0000
              Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-23 12:41 +1100
            Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 14:24 -0700
              Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 18:59 -0800
                Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 00:11 -0800
                Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 09:28 -0700
              Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-23 16:37 +1100
          Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-22 11:23 -0800
        Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 00:42 -0800
          Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-01-22 12:05 +0200
            Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 21:13 +1100
            Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 18:11 +0000
          Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 10:31 +0000
            Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 12:23 -0800
              Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2015-01-22 20:46 +0000
              Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 22:06 +0100
      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-02-08 00:45 +0000
        Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-02-08 12:01 +1100
          Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-02-08 18:55 +1100
            Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-02-08 19:21 +1100
        Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-02-08 01:31 -0700
          Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-02-08 12:17 +0200
    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-01-22 06:22 +0000
    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2015-01-21 22:25 -0800
      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-21 22:48 -0800
        Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 00:24 -0800
          Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-01-22 08:40 +0000
            Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2015-01-23 03:40 +0000
          Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2015-01-22 14:20 -0500
    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Nicholas Cole <nicholas.cole@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 07:40 +0000
    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-01-22 09:10 +0000
    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 18:03 +0000
      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-01-22 21:08 +0200
        Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-01-23 01:19 -0800
      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-23 16:34 +1100
    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Skip Montanaro <skip.montanaro@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 12:14 -0600
      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 12:38 -0800
    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 18:23 +0000
    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-01-22 18:28 +0000
      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-01-22 21:16 +0200
        Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-22 11:36 -0800
        Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-23 11:16 +1100
          Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-01-23 06:29 +0000
      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 12:44 -0800
        Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-01-22 20:50 +0000
        Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 23:25 +0100
          Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 17:06 -0800
            Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2015-01-22 22:59 -0500
            Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-23 15:23 +1100
              Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 19:00 -0800
                Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-24 18:48 +1100
                  Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-01-24 09:30 +0000
                  Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2015-01-24 15:20 -0800
                    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-25 10:30 +1100
                      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-01-25 00:39 +0100
                        Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-25 10:44 +1100
                    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-01-24 23:55 +0000
                      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2015-01-24 17:00 -0800
                        Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-01-25 02:28 +0000
                    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-01-25 10:57 -0800
              Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! random832@fastmail.us - 2015-01-26 10:01 -0500
                Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-27 11:11 +1100
                  Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2015-01-27 01:09 +0000
                    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-27 17:36 +1100
                      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-27 18:59 +1100
                        Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-27 19:03 +1100
                      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! random832@fastmail.us - 2015-01-27 12:26 -0500
                      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-01-27 17:40 +0000
                  Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2015-01-26 17:10 -0800
                    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-27 06:32 +0000
                  Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! random832@fastmail.us - 2015-01-27 12:35 -0500
                  Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! random832@fastmail.us - 2015-01-27 12:37 -0500
                    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-01-27 18:59 +0100
                      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-28 07:40 +1100
                        Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-01-27 21:58 +0100
                          Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-28 08:08 +1100
                            Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-01-27 22:19 +0100
                              Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-28 08:24 +1100
                                Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-01-27 22:35 +0100
                                  Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-01-27 22:39 +0100
                                  Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-28 08:53 +1100
                          Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-28 13:05 +1100
                      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-28 12:26 +1100
                        Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Skip Montanaro <skip.montanaro@gmail.com> - 2015-01-28 08:10 -0600
                        Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-01-28 16:04 +0100
                          Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-01-28 07:40 -0800
                          Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-01-28 10:33 -0700
                            Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-29 11:37 +1100
                              Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-29 11:43 +1100
                              Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-01-29 09:34 +0100
                                Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-01-29 09:30 -0700
                                Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-30 03:41 +1100
                          Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-01-28 18:16 +0000
                            Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-01-29 09:23 +0100
                              Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-01-29 08:49 +0000
                              Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-30 03:11 +1100
                                Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2015-01-29 13:12 -0800
                                Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-01-30 19:36 +0100
                                  Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-02-01 14:06 +1100
                                Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-01-30 19:42 +0100
                                  Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-01-30 14:50 -0700
                          Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Skip Montanaro <skip.montanaro@gmail.com> - 2015-01-28 12:34 -0600
                          Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Skip Montanaro <skip.montanaro@gmail.com> - 2015-01-28 12:36 -0600
                          Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! random832@fastmail.us - 2015-01-29 09:08 -0500
                            Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-30 02:56 +1100
                              Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! random832@fastmail.us - 2015-01-29 13:23 -0500
                                Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-31 22:56 +1100
                                  Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-02-01 01:53 +1100
                                    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-02-01 14:16 +1100
                                      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-02-01 14:46 +1100
                                      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2015-01-31 20:31 -0800
                                        dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-01-31 21:36 -0800
                                          Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2015-02-01 00:12 -0800
                                          Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-02-02 03:20 +1100
                                            Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-02-02 03:55 +1100
                                              Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-02-01 10:31 -0700
                                            Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-02-01 19:52 -0800
                                              Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-02-01 20:04 -0800
                                                Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-02-01 20:22 -0800
                                            Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2015-02-02 17:55 +1300
                                              Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-02-02 18:15 +1100
                                                Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2015-02-01 23:41 -0800
                                                  Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-02-02 23:06 +1100
                                                    Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-02-02 23:09 +1100
                                                      Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2015-02-04 00:58 +1300
                                                    Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2015-02-02 05:00 -0800
                                                      Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-02-03 01:07 +1100
                                                        Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2015-02-03 01:24 -0800
                                                          Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-02-03 12:38 +0200
                                                            Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-02-03 21:49 +1100
                                                              Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-02-03 13:27 +0200
                                                                Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2015-02-04 10:12 +1300
                                                                  Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-02-03 23:28 +0200
                                                                    Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2015-02-04 11:43 +1300
                                                                      Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-02-04 01:32 +0200
                                                                        Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-02-04 10:39 +1100
                                                                        Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-02-03 23:41 +0000
                                                                        Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2015-02-03 15:55 -0800
                                                                      Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-02-04 13:30 +1100
                                                                  Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-02-04 12:57 +1100
                                                                    Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2015-02-04 19:04 +1300
                                                          Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-02-04 04:40 +1100
                                                            Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2015-02-04 10:39 +1300
                                                            Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-02-03 15:04 -0700
                                                              Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2015-02-03 18:31 -0800
                                                            Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-02-04 09:19 +1100
                                                              Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-02-04 13:30 +1100
                                                                Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-02-04 15:58 +1100
                                                                  Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2015-02-04 19:22 +1300
                                                                Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2015-02-04 19:22 +1300
                                                    Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2015-02-02 05:02 -0800
                                                      Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-02-03 01:20 +1100
                                                        Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2015-02-03 01:25 -0800
                                                    Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2015-02-04 00:32 +1300
                                            Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Vito De Tullio <vito.detullio@gmail.com> - 2015-02-02 06:26 +0100
                                              Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-02-02 04:27 -0800
                                                Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-02-02 23:43 +1100
                                          Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-02-02 07:45 +1100
                                          Re: dunder-docs (was Python is DOOMED! Again!) Emile van Sebille <emile@fenx.com> - 2015-02-01 12:51 -0800
                                      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-02-01 11:35 -0500
                                  Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-31 22:12 -0800
                                    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2015-01-31 22:54 -0800
                                      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-02-02 03:34 +1100
                                        Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2015-02-01 08:54 -0800
                                        Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-02-02 04:09 +1100
                                        Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-02-01 14:02 -0800
                                      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-02-01 14:27 -0800
                                        Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2015-02-01 14:52 -0800
                                          Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-02-02 13:03 +1100
                                          Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2015-02-02 18:46 +1300
                                    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-02-02 03:31 +1100
                                      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2015-02-01 09:45 -0800
                                      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2015-02-02 18:19 +1300
                                        Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-02-02 16:38 +1100
                                          Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-02-01 22:07 -0800
                                            Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-02-02 17:16 +1100
                                              Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-02-01 22:25 -0800
                                            Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-02-02 18:18 +1100
                                              Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-02-01 23:43 -0800
                                                Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-02-02 04:12 -0800
                                      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-02-01 22:12 -0800
                              Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-01-29 10:53 -0800
                              Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-01-29 18:54 +0000
                                Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-01-30 19:50 +0100
                                  Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Skip Montanaro <skip.montanaro@gmail.com> - 2015-01-30 13:00 -0600
                    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-28 12:09 +1100
        Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2015-01-22 22:57 -0500
    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 05:33 +1100
      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-01-22 21:22 +0200
        Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Skip Montanaro <skip.montanaro@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 13:43 -0600
        Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 20:56 +0100
        Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Skip Montanaro <skip.montanaro@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 14:31 -0600
        Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Skip Montanaro <skip.montanaro@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 14:32 -0600
        Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 13:08 -0800
          Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-01-22 23:25 +0200
    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! random832@fastmail.us - 2015-01-22 13:41 -0500
      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 20:10 +0100
        Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 20:53 +0100
          Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 21:03 +0100
            Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 01:40 +0100
              Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-22 17:31 -0800
              Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-23 14:53 +1100
                Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-01-23 06:38 +0000
                Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2015-01-24 02:00 +0100
                  Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-24 16:51 +1100
                    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Nicholas Cole <nicholas.cole@gmail.com> - 2015-01-24 09:04 +0000
                Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-24 12:15 +1100
                Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-01-24 14:40 +0000
            Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 12:00 +1100
            Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Emile van Sebille <emile@fenx.com> - 2015-01-22 17:14 -0800
            Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2015-01-22 22:34 -0500
    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-01-22 19:05 +0000
    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 19:07 +0000
      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-23 15:51 +1100
    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 19:09 +0000
    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Emile van Sebille <emile@fenx.com> - 2015-01-22 13:56 -0800
    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 15:08 -0700
      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-22 15:24 -0800
    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 15:12 -0700
      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 19:11 -0800
        Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 14:52 +1100
          Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 21:06 -0800
            Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 16:33 +1100
    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Chris Kaynor <ckaynor@zindagigames.com> - 2015-01-22 14:27 -0800
    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 15:47 -0700
      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 23:54 +0100
    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2015-01-23 10:22 +1100
    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 01:44 +0100
    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-01-23 06:33 +0000
    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-01-23 01:07 -0800
    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Tony the Tiger <tony@tiger.invalid> - 2015-01-23 18:08 +0000
    Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-01-29 22:57 +0000
      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-30 10:17 +1100
      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Chris Kaynor <ckaynor@zindagigames.com> - 2015-01-29 15:25 -0800
      Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2015-01-30 02:11 +0000

Page 12 of 14 — ← Prev page 1 … 10 11 [12] 13 14  Next page →


#85065

FromPaul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Date2015-02-01 23:43 -0800
Message-ID<874mr43giw.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
In reply to#85062
Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> writes:
> No apples and no oranges aren't the same thing, but if somebody is expecting 
> no apples, and I give them no oranges instead, it would be churlish for them 
> to complain that none of them are the wrong kind of fruit.

https://davedevine.wordpress.com/2011/01/20/the-sartre-joke/

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#85073

FromRustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com>
Date2015-02-02 04:12 -0800
Message-ID<aee0a982-4827-42ae-b0b1-344d46779c0d@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#85065
On Monday, February 2, 2015 at 1:13:30 PM UTC+5:30, Paul Rubin wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano writes:
> > No apples and no oranges aren't the same thing, but if somebody is expecting 
> > no apples, and I give them no oranges instead, it would be churlish for them 
> > to complain that none of them are the wrong kind of fruit.
> 
> https://davedevine.wordpress.com/2011/01/20/the-sartre-joke/

Actually the Sartre joke is more applicable to haskell than it might appear at first blush.

li = [1,2,3] : [Int] -- a monomorphic type
just as
lc = ['a','b','c'] : [Char]
lli = [[1,2],[3]] : [[Int]]

However [] is a polymorphic value ie
[] : [t]   -- t is a type variable

And now if we take
tail (tail (tail li)) 
you get []
just as if you take
tail (tail lli)

However the two '[]-s' are of different types
and so if you try to say append them you will get a Sartre error:

The list of no integers is incompatible with the list of no lists of integers

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#85057

FromPaul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Date2015-02-01 22:12 -0800
Message-ID<87h9v43kq1.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
In reply to#85002
Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> writes:
> if type(ptr) == A:
>     if ptr != Anil: ...
> if type(ptr) == B:
>     if ptr != Bnil: ... 
> etc. That would be insane. So how does Haskell do this?

That wouldn't make sense in Haskell: the types are known at compile
time, so you wouldn't do that runtime switching on them.

> At the bottom of the page is a link to a .mov version.

Didn't see that earlier.  Managed to download and mplayer is able to
show it.  Thanks!

You might like: http://learnyouahaskell.com/chapters

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#84835

Fromwxjmfauth@gmail.com
Date2015-01-29 10:53 -0800
Message-ID<509ce40c-0271-4a09-bbc7-ee91d92a291b@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#84821
Le jeudi 29 janvier 2015 16:56:59 UTC+1, Steven D'Aprano a écrit :
> 
> There are degrees of strength, and I think that Python comes closer to the
> Foo end than the Bar end. There are few automatic coercions, and most of
> those are in the numeric tower according to the usual mathematical rules.
> 
The set of elements N, Z, Q, I, R, C, ....
are, in mathematics, *not* building a tower.

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#84836

FromMark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2015-01-29 18:54 +0000
Message-ID<mailman.18277.1422557674.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#84821
On 29/01/2015 18:23, random832@fastmail.us wrote:
>
> Statically typed lanugages by definition can never give you a TypeError
> - there are no runtime conversions that can succeed or fail based on the
> type of the arguments. What makes a statically typed language strong or
> weak? Are statically typed languages always weak?
>

They can give you lots of warnings about possible loss of data or 
similar.  Yes, you can silence these warnings if you know what you're 
doing.  You can also silence them if you don't know what you're doing. 
The end result could be a lovely, friendly segfault to debug.  What joy?

No, they're not always weakly typed.  The aim of the spreadsheet put up 
by Skip was to sort out (roughly) which languages belong in which camp. 
  I do not regard myself as suitably qualified to fill the thing out. 
Perhaps by now others have?

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence

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#84913

FromMario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com>
Date2015-01-30 19:50 +0100
Message-ID<MPG.2f35f0cce3d003db9896b7@nntp.aioe.org>
In reply to#84836
In article <mailman.18277.1422557674.18130.python-list@python.org>, 
breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk says...
> 
> No, they're not always weakly typed.  The aim of the spreadsheet put up 
> by Skip was to sort out (roughly) which languages belong in which camp. 
>   I do not regard myself as suitably qualified to fill the thing out. 
> Perhaps by now others have?


It would help that if instead of weakly typed or strongly typed box, 
they could be classified comparatively to each other. The terms are 
better suited to describe two languages as they stand to each other.

Weakly Typed ------------------------------------------> Strongly Typed

From C to Lisp (arguably) with languages closer to each other indicating 
a more similar type system model.

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#84914

FromSkip Montanaro <skip.montanaro@gmail.com>
Date2015-01-30 13:00 -0600
Message-ID<mailman.18317.1422644458.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#84913

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 12:50 PM, Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> wrote:

> It would help that if instead of weakly typed or strongly typed box,
> they could be classified comparatively to each other. The terms are
> better suited to describe two languages as they stand to each other.
>
> Weakly Typed ------------------------------------------> Strongly Typed
>

The spreadsheet should be world-writable. Knock yourself out. :-)

http://preview.tinyurl.com/kcrcq4y

Skip

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#84697

FromSteven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info>
Date2015-01-28 12:09 +1100
Message-ID<54c836d9$0$12980$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to#84655
random832@fastmail.us wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 26, 2015, at 19:11, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> random832@fastmail.us wrote:
>> - lexical analysis has to look for twice as many files (it has to
>>   hit the hard drive for a stub file before looking at the source),
>>   and we know from importing that file system access is a
>>   significant and expensive part of the process.
> 
> The idea is that the type hinting files would not participate in
> execution at all, only static analysis, so the interpreter doesn't need
> to look for these things at all, it only needs to ignore them.

Yes, but the *type-checker* needs to look for all those files, which slows
the type-checker down.

My estimate of time savings, plucked completely from thin air, is that
type-checkers will save around 5% time by not using a separate stub file.
(Anyone actually using MyPy care to measure it?)

Of course, that will differ according to circumstances: a stub file on a
slow CD/DVD media mounted over the network will be much more expensive than
a stub file on a RAM disk or SSD drive.

Regardless of exactly how much more expensive it is, two sets of file I/O by
definition will be more expensive than one set of file I/O.

But really, this is the minor point against header files. The icing on the
cake, not the cake itself. The big reason for avoiding them is dependency
management and the splitting of information about a single thing into two
files.


-- 
Steven

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#84310

FromTerry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu>
Date2015-01-22 22:57 -0500
Message-ID<mailman.18015.1421985483.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#84272
On 1/22/2015 3:44 PM, Rick Johnson wrote:
> On Thursday, January 22, 2015 at 12:28:47 PM UTC-6, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>> Evidence in completely the opposite direction if I'm
>> reading this correctly [snip link]
>>
>> "The main use case of type hinting is static analysis
>> using an external tool without executing the analyzed
>> program. Existing tools used for that purpose like
>> pyflakes [pyflakes] or pylint [pylint] might be extended
>> to support type checking. New tools, like mypy's mypy -S
>> mode, can be adopted specifically for this purpose.
>
> So if the purpose is "static analysis", what is the
> justification for injecting new syntax into function sigs?

The syntax was put there years ago.

> I'm not *TOTALLY* against the idea of "type hints", but i am
> *TOTALLY* against their proposed location.

Unlike other annotations, type annotations can be put in a separate stub 
file.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy

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#84248

FromChris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
Date2015-01-23 05:33 +1100
Message-ID<mailman.17983.1421951583.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#84181
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 5:03 AM, Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
>
>> Remember too that type-hinting will *absolutely* remain *completely*
>> optional for Python. Developers can choose to use it or not,
>
> No! Developers have to do what managers and customers tell them to do. They
> will start to require type hinting everywhere. And then the question is
> what Python has to offer over Java or Swift.

Uhh... if your managers and customers are stipulating non-Pythonic
coding styles, then it's time to find new managers/customers. If
they're not writing the code, code quality shouldn't be their concern.

Of course, if you want to switch to Swift, sure, but I'm going to keep
working on Python. Just please don't FUD this list.

ChrisA

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#84257

FromMarko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net>
Date2015-01-22 21:22 +0200
Message-ID<87sif2fwmk.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
In reply to#84248
Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>:

> Uhh... if your managers and customers are stipulating non-Pythonic
> coding styles, then it's time to find new managers/customers.

Hah! What's considered Pythonic seems to be changing. Old-school
Pythonic will be heresy, and new-school Pythonic will be exalted to
dogma.

> Just please don't FUD this list.

Why do you think opinions on Python's future should be kept off this
list?


Marko

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#84261

FromSkip Montanaro <skip.montanaro@gmail.com>
Date2015-01-22 13:43 -0600
Message-ID<mailman.17989.1421955798.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#84257

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 1:22 PM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> wrote:

> > Just please don't FUD this list.
>
> Why do you think opinions on Python's future should be kept off this
> list?


The way you couched your opinion as a certainty, as if you could see the
future, not as if you had an opinion stated like, "do you think this might
happen?"

Skip

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#84264

FromSturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com>
Date2015-01-22 20:56 +0100
Message-ID<mailman.17992.1421956807.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#84257
On 22/01/15 20:43, Skip Montanaro wrote:

> The way you couched your opinion as a certainty, as if you could see the
> future,

How do you know I cannot?



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#84269

FromSkip Montanaro <skip.montanaro@gmail.com>
Date2015-01-22 14:31 -0600
Message-ID<mailman.17994.1421958699.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#84257

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On 22/01/15 20:43, Skip Montanaro wrote:
>
>  The way you couched your opinion as a certainty, as if you could see the
>> future,
>>
>
> How do you know I cannot?


Perhaps you can, but then your statements are opinions, then are they?

Skip

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#84270

FromSkip Montanaro <skip.montanaro@gmail.com>
Date2015-01-22 14:32 -0600
Message-ID<mailman.17995.1421958772.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#84257

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Skip Montanaro <skip.montanaro@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Perhaps you can, but then your statements are opinions, then are they?


Crap. I meant:

"... then your statements aren't opinions ..."

S

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#84276

FromRick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com>
Date2015-01-22 13:08 -0800
Message-ID<07b43d77-aee3-41de-b3eb-61719061226a@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#84257
On Thursday, January 22, 2015 at 1:23:11 PM UTC-6, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Chris Angelico:
>
> > Just please don't FUD this list.
> 
> Why do you think opinions on Python's future should be
> kept off this list?
 
Because he's one of the more prevalent boot licking rabbid
fanboys of GvR. If you don't believe me then Google this 
thread:

  [Python-ideas] Need help converting HTML doc to ReST
  
He replied within 15 mins with great enthusiasm to do his
"master's bidding". How pathetic!

Python is not as "open" as the PSF policy statements would
have you believe. You either agree with GvR (and his
minions), or you don't exist. It's that simple.

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#84277

FromMarko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net>
Date2015-01-22 23:25 +0200
Message-ID<87h9vifqyz.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>
In reply to#84276
Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com>:

> On Thursday, January 22, 2015 at 1:23:11 PM UTC-6, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Because he's one of the more prevalent boot licking rabbid
> fanboys of GvR.

You are out of line, but then, you never pretended otherwise.


Marko

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#84249

Fromrandom832@fastmail.us
Date2015-01-22 13:41 -0500
Message-ID<mailman.17984.1421952098.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#84181
On Thu, Jan 22, 2015, at 13:28, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> Evidence in completely the opposite direction if I'm reading this 
> correctly https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0484/#usage-patterns
> 
> "The main use case of type hinting is static analysis using an external 
> tool without executing the analyzed program. Existing tools used for 
> that purpose like pyflakes [pyflakes] or pylint [pylint] might be 
> extended to support type checking. New tools, like mypy's mypy -S mode, 
> can be adopted specifically for this purpose.

How is that the opposite direction? It's a short jump from there to
"pylint [or whatever tool] will consider a lack of type hinting to be
something to warn for" and "managers/customers will consider this
warning to mean your program has failed and is unacceptable".

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#84254

FromMario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com>
Date2015-01-22 20:10 +0100
Message-ID<MPG.2f2b697d288c74b2989685@nntp.aioe.org>
In reply to#84249
In article <mailman.17984.1421952098.18130.python-list@python.org>, 
random832@fastmail.us says...
> How is that the opposite direction? It's a short jump from there to
> "pylint [or whatever tool] will consider a lack of type hinting to be
> something to warn for" and "managers/customers will consider this
> warning to mean your program has failed and is unacceptable".

Customers don't have access to static analysis output and project 
managers should know better than to demand static analysis without 
properly contextualize it. I just don't see a project manager having no 
idea what static analysis means.

I think you are completely of the mark here, if you think type 
annotations will become some sort of obligatory feature.

The criticism is about the choices regarding its syntax and whether it 
should couple so tightly with our source code (as is suggested on the 
PEP) and whether it should be entirely moved to comment-like structures.

No one in their right mind looks at static analysis as an obligatory 
feature in Python, or any other programming language.

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#84262

FromSturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com>
Date2015-01-22 20:53 +0100
Message-ID<mailman.17990.1421956437.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#84254
On 22/01/15 20:10, Mario Figueiredo wrote:

> Customers don't have access to static analysis output and project
> managers should know better than to demand static analysis without
> properly contextualize it. I just don't see a project manager having no
> idea what static analysis means.

I don't know how it works in you country, but here projects managers are 
selected for having any kind of skill other than technical knowledge. I 
know of one who got the job because he was a professional hockey player. 
So yes, they can very well be unaware what static analysis means. But 
what they will do is pick up "buzzwords" from the kind of journals that 
project managers read. And then they want that buzzword implemented.

Sturla

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