Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > comp.lang.python > #27843 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Antoine Pitrou <solipsis@pitrou.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2012-08-25 00:24 +0000 |
| Last post | 2012-08-25 07:23 -0400 |
| Articles | 3 on this page of 83 — 18 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.python
This discussion starts older than the indexed window; earlier articles aren't shown. The article labeled Started by
below is the oldest one visible, not the original post.
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Antoine Pitrou <solipsis@pitrou.net> - 2012-08-25 00:24 +0000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-08-25 00:27 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2012-08-25 17:54 +1000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-08-25 00:27 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-25 09:58 +0100
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Frank Millman <frank@chagford.com> - 2012-08-25 11:46 +0200
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-08-25 08:47 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-08-25 08:47 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-08-25 16:26 -0600
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-08-25 23:59 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-08-26 09:50 -0600
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-08-25 23:59 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-26 11:49 +0000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-08-26 09:40 -0600
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-26 20:13 +0000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2012-08-26 13:45 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-08-27 12:16 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-08-27 14:14 -0600
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-08-27 13:37 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-08-29 04:38 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-08-29 04:38 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Neil Hodgson <nhodgson@iinet.net.au> - 2012-08-28 09:54 +1000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-08-29 13:59 +1000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-08-28 22:15 -0600
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-29 08:05 +0000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-08-29 04:40 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Dave Angel <d@davea.name> - 2012-08-29 08:01 -0400
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-08-29 08:43 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-30 06:55 +0000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-08-30 18:59 +1000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-08-30 07:02 -0400
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-30 16:00 +0000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-08-30 16:44 -0400
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-31 12:32 +0000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-08-31 09:13 -0600
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-08-31 08:43 -0400
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-31 14:54 +0000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Antoine Pitrou <solipsis@pitrou.net> - 2012-08-30 15:01 +0000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-09-02 00:36 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-02 09:58 +0100
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-09-02 03:06 -0600
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-09-02 11:58 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2012-09-02 13:45 -0600
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Dave Angel <d@davea.name> - 2012-09-02 16:07 -0400
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-09-02 16:38 -0400
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-03 01:42 +0000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2012-09-03 18:26 +0300
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-04 00:53 +0000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-09-02 11:58 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Peter Otten <__peter__@web.de> - 2012-09-02 11:52 +0200
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-02 11:36 +0100
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2012-09-02 15:00 +0300
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-09-02 22:39 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-03 07:11 +0100
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Peter Otten <__peter__@web.de> - 2012-09-03 08:15 +0200
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-09-03 04:38 -0400
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2012-09-03 18:56 +0300
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-09-02 22:39 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-02 13:23 +0100
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-09-02 08:35 -0400
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Ramchandra Apte <maniandram01@gmail.com> - 2012-09-02 06:48 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-02 15:46 +0100
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Ramchandra Apte <maniandram01@gmail.com> - 2012-09-02 06:48 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-09-03 12:33 -0600
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-09-02 00:36 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-08-30 10:27 -0600
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2012-09-02 23:38 +0300
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-03 01:54 +0000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-09-02 22:33 -0400
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-09-03 11:24 -0400
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2012-09-03 18:41 +0300
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2012-09-03 00:45 +0300
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-08-30 01:54 +1000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-08-29 22:34 +1000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-08-29 04:40 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2012-08-27 12:16 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-08-26 15:42 -0600
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-08-26 23:31 +0000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-08-26 17:47 -0700
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-08-25 21:04 +1000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-25 12:05 +0100
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-08-25 21:19 +1000
Re: Flexible string representation, unicode, typography, ... Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-08-25 07:23 -0400
Page 5 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5]
| From | Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-08-25 12:05 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3797.1345892703.4697.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #27854 |
On 25/08/2012 10:46, Frank Millman wrote: > On 25/08/2012 10:58, Mark Lawrence wrote: >> On 25/08/2012 08:27, wxjmfauth@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> Unicode design: a flat table of code points, where all code >>> points are "equals". >>> As soon as one attempts to escape from this rule, one has to >>> "pay" for it. >>> The creator of this machinery (flexible string representation) >>> can not even benefit from it in his native language (I think >>> I'm correctly informed). >>> >>> Hint: Google -> "Das grosse Eszett" >>> >>> jmf >>> >> >> It's Saturday morning, I'm stone cold sober, had a good sleep and I'm >> still baffled as to the point if any. Could someone please enlightem me? >> > > Here's what I think he is saying. I am posting this to test the water. I > am also confused, and if I have got it wrong hopefully someone will > correct me. > > In python 3.3, unicode strings are now stored as follows - > if all characters can be represented by 1 byte, the entire string is > composed of 1-byte characters > else if all characters can be represented by 1 or 2 bytea, the entire > string is composed of 2-byte characters > else the entire string is composed of 4-byte characters > > There is an overhead in making this choice, to detect the lowest number > of bytes required. > > jmfauth believes that this only benefits 'english-speaking' users, as > the rest of the world will tend to have strings where at least one > character requires 2 or 4 bytes. So they incur the overhead, without > getting any benefit. > > Therefore, I think he is saying that he would have preferred that python > standardise on 4-byte characters, on the grounds that the saving in > memory does not justify the performance overhead. > > Frank Millman > > I thought Terry Reedy had shot down any claims about performance overhead, and that the memory savings in many cases must be substantial and therefore worthwhile. Or have I misread something? Or what? -- Cheers. Mark Lawrence.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-08-25 21:19 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3798.1345893580.4697.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #27854 |
On Sat, Aug 25, 2012 at 9:05 PM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > I thought Terry Reedy had shot down any claims about performance overhead, > and that the memory savings in many cases must be substantial and therefore > worthwhile. Or have I misread something? Or what? My reading of the thread(s) is/are that there are two reasons for the debate to continue to rage: 1) Comparisons with a "narrow build" in which most characters take two bytes but there are one or two characters that get encoded with surrogates. The new system will allocate four bytes per character for the whole string. 2) Arguments on the basis of huge strings that represent _all the data_ that your program's working with, forgetting that there are numerous strings all through everything that are ASCII-only. ChrisA
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-08-25 07:23 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3799.1345893825.4697.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #27854 |
On 8/25/2012 7:05 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote: > I thought Terry Reedy had shot down any claims about performance > overhead, and that the memory savings in many cases must be substantial > and therefore worthwhile. Or have I misread something? No, you have correctly read what I and others have said. Jim appears to not be interested in dialog. Lets leave it at that. -- Terry Jan Reedy
[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]
Page 5 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5]
Back to top | Article view | comp.lang.python
csiph-web