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Groups > comp.lang.python > #57351 > unrolled thread

Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard?

Started bydufriz@gmail.com
First post2013-10-23 04:57 -0700
Last post2013-10-24 20:17 -0400
Articles 6 on this page of 46 — 23 participants

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  Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? dufriz@gmail.com - 2013-10-23 04:57 -0700
    Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2013-10-23 23:16 +1100
      Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-10-23 12:36 +0000
        Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-10-23 19:46 -0400
        Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2013-10-23 19:54 -0400
    Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-23 13:35 +0100
      Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? "Colin J. Williams" <cjw@ncf.ca> - 2013-10-23 09:05 -0400
        Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Tim Golden <mail@timgolden.me.uk> - 2013-10-23 14:13 +0100
          Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? "Colin J. Williams" <cjw@ncf.ca> - 2013-10-24 20:03 -0400
        Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-23 14:27 +0100
          Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-10-23 15:04 +0000
          Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-24 00:17 +0000
            Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-24 09:26 +0100
            Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-24 19:31 +1100
        Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Skip Montanaro <skip@pobox.com> - 2013-10-23 08:52 -0500
        Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Tim Golden <mail@timgolden.me.uk> - 2013-10-23 15:01 +0100
        Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-23 15:16 +0100
        Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-23 15:21 +0100
        Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Skip Montanaro <skip@pobox.com> - 2013-10-23 09:34 -0500
        Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Tim Golden <mail@timgolden.me.uk> - 2013-10-23 15:43 +0100
    Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-23 23:40 +1100
    Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-23 13:52 +0100
    Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-10-23 08:57 -0400
    Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> - 2013-10-23 11:03 -0400
    Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Dan Stromberg <drsalists@gmail.com> - 2013-10-23 13:15 -0700
    Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-24 00:18 +0000
      Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-24 09:18 +0100
    Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Peter Cacioppi <peter.cacioppi@gmail.com> - 2013-10-23 21:57 -0700
      Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-24 17:46 +1100
      Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-10-23 23:32 -0700
      Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-24 09:29 +0100
    Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Peter Cacioppi <peter.cacioppi@gmail.com> - 2013-10-23 22:12 -0700
      Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-24 06:45 +0000
    Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Peter Cacioppi <peter.cacioppi@gmail.com> - 2013-10-24 00:01 -0700
      Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-24 18:09 +1100
    Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Antoine Pitrou <solipsis@pitrou.net> - 2013-10-24 08:30 +0000
    Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-24 19:37 +1100
    Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-24 09:43 +0100
      Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-10-24 10:30 +0000
    Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-24 09:45 +0100
    Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Peter Cacioppi <peter.cacioppi@gmail.com> - 2013-10-24 01:52 -0700
    Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Damien Wyart <damien.wyart@free.fr> - 2013-10-24 15:29 +0200
      Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? ishish <ishish@domhain.de> - 2013-10-24 14:36 +0100
      Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-10-24 13:31 -0400
      Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-10-24 17:00 -0400
    Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-10-24 20:17 -0400

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#57440

FromPeter Cacioppi <peter.cacioppi@gmail.com>
Date2013-10-24 01:52 -0700
Message-ID<0667f435-1a82-4de1-8cdf-72b91fd2d724@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#57351
Angelico said:
"Which is why I mentioned those helpful __future__ directives,"

OK, thanks, I'll study the __future__.  

I  will port to 3.x in less than 60 months, or my name isn't Cacioppi. (So, in the worst case, I might have to backport a change to my name).

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#57453

FromDamien Wyart <damien.wyart@free.fr>
Date2013-10-24 15:29 +0200
Message-ID<526920c7$0$2268$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
In reply to#57351
> I am starting to have doubts as to whether Python 3.x will ever be
> actually adopted by the Python community at large as their standard.
> Years have passed, and a LARGE number of Python programmers has not
> even bothered learning version 3.x. Why am I bothered by this? Because
> of lot of good libraries are still only for version 2.x, and there is
> no sign of their being updated for v3.x. I get the impression as if
> 3.x, despite being better and more advanced than 2.x from the
> technical point of view, is a bit of a letdown in terms of adoption.

Some Linux distributions will certainly switch to Python 3 by default,
sooner or later. Fedora has decided to do so for their 22 release:
http://lwn.net/Articles/571528/

-- 
DW

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#57454

Fromishish <ishish@domhain.de>
Date2013-10-24 14:36 +0100
Message-ID<mailman.1469.1382621785.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#57453
Am 24.10.2013 14:29, schrieb Damien Wyart:
>> I am starting to have doubts as to whether Python 3.x will ever be
>> actually adopted by the Python community at large as their standard.
>> Years have passed, and a LARGE number of Python programmers has not
>> even bothered learning version 3.x. Why am I bothered by this? 
>> Because
>> of lot of good libraries are still only for version 2.x, and there 
>> is
>> no sign of their being updated for v3.x. I get the impression as if
>> 3.x, despite being better and more advanced than 2.x from the
>> technical point of view, is a bit of a letdown in terms of adoption.
>
> Some Linux distributions will certainly switch to Python 3 by 
> default,
> sooner or later. Fedora has decided to do so for their 22 release:
> http://lwn.net/Articles/571528/
>
> --
> DW

Saucy Salamander (Ubuntu 13.10, released oct 17th) comes with Python 
3.3.

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#57462

FromNed Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com>
Date2013-10-24 13:31 -0400
Message-ID<mailman.1474.1382636322.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#57453
On 10/24/13 9:29 AM, Damien Wyart wrote:
>> I am starting to have doubts as to whether Python 3.x will ever be
>> actually adopted by the Python community at large as their standard.
>> Years have passed, and a LARGE number of Python programmers has not
>> even bothered learning version 3.x. Why am I bothered by this? Because
>> of lot of good libraries are still only for version 2.x, and there is
>> no sign of their being updated for v3.x. I get the impression as if
>> 3.x, despite being better and more advanced than 2.x from the
>> technical point of view, is a bit of a letdown in terms of adoption.
> Some Linux distributions will certainly switch to Python 3 by default,
> sooner or later. Fedora has decided to do so for their 22 release:
> http://lwn.net/Articles/571528/
>

I'm not sure what "by default" means, I hope it isn't that "python" runs 
Python 3.x.  That causes massive confusion on Arch, and will make it 
very difficult to support a mixed environment.

--Ned.

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#57471

FromTerry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu>
Date2013-10-24 17:00 -0400
Message-ID<mailman.1481.1382648429.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#57453
On 10/24/2013 1:31 PM, Ned Batchelder wrote:
>
> On 10/24/13 9:29 AM, Damien Wyart wrote:
>>> I am starting to have doubts as to whether Python 3.x will ever be
>>> actually adopted by the Python community at large as their standard.
>>> Years have passed, and a LARGE number of Python programmers has not
>>> even bothered learning version 3.x. Why am I bothered by this? Because
>>> of lot of good libraries are still only for version 2.x, and there is
>>> no sign of their being updated for v3.x. I get the impression as if
>>> 3.x, despite being better and more advanced than 2.x from the
>>> technical point of view, is a bit of a letdown in terms of adoption.
>> Some Linux distributions will certainly switch to Python 3 by default,
>> sooner or later. Fedora has decided to do so for their 22 release:
>> http://lwn.net/Articles/571528/
>>
>
> I'm not sure what "by default" means, I hope it isn't that "python" runs
> Python 3.x.  That causes massive confusion on Arch, and will make it
> very difficult to support a mixed environment.

It means that 3.x is always present (with 2.x an option) and Fedora's 
Python code works with the always-present version.

The actual proposal (FEP? ;-):
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Python_3_as_Default
'''
The main goal is switching to Python 3 as a default, in which state:

     DNF is the default package manager instead of Yum, which only works 
with Python 2
     Python 3 is the only Python implementation in the minimal buildroot
     Python 3 is the only Python implementation on the LiveCD
     Anaconda and all of its dependencies run on Python 3
     cloud-init and all of its dependencies run on Python 3
'''
...
"Upstream recommends that /usr/bin/python point to Python 2 runtime for 
the time being, so if we go with that, there shouldn't be any serious 
compatibility impact: "

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy

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#57484

FromDennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com>
Date2013-10-24 20:17 -0400
Message-ID<mailman.1492.1382660259.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#57351
On Thu, 24 Oct 2013 09:45:29 +0100, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk>
declaimed the following:

>Sorry, there's problems with all version of both Windows and Linux so 
>we're reverting with immediate effect to VMS.

	Wisdom and Intelligence in one...
-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
    wlfraed@ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

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