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Newer Debian versions of python on older Debian distros?

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  Newer Debian versions of python on older Debian distros? Travis Griggs <travisgriggs@gmail.com> - 2014-09-08 12:04 -0700
    Re: Newer Debian versions of python on older Debian distros? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-09-09 01:09 -0700
      Re: Newer Debian versions of python on older Debian distros? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-09-09 19:17 +1000
        Re: Newer Debian versions of python on older Debian distros? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-09-09 08:23 -0700
          Re: Newer Debian versions of python on older Debian distros? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-09-10 01:27 +1000

#77704 — Newer Debian versions of python on older Debian distros?

(I realize that this may be seen as off topic for as a general python question, but given my historical experience with the Debian community’s predilection to answer all questions with a grumpy “go read the very very very very large and ever shifting fine manual”, I’m hoping for better luck here.)

Does anyone have experience with using newer versions of python debian packages (in particular, python3 and python3-bson-ext from ‘testing’) on older stable versions (‘wheezy’ in this case)? If someone’s figured out how to do this easily, I’d love to hear the recipe!

TIA

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#77719

On Tuesday, September 9, 2014 12:35:27 AM UTC+5:30, Travis Griggs wrote:
> (I realize that this may be seen as off topic for as a general
> python question, but given my historical experience with the Debian
> community's predilection to answer all questions with a grumpy "go
> read the very very very very large and ever shifting fine manual",
> I'm hoping for better luck here.)

>  Does anyone have experience with using newer versions of python
> debian packages (in particular, python3 and python3-bson-ext from
> 'testing') on older stable versions ('wheezy' in this case)? If
> someone's figured out how to do this easily, I'd love to hear the
> recipe!

Wheezy appears to have a python3 (though not the latest)
https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/python3

Chris said:
> Alternatively, you could just run Debian Jessie. I have a few Jessie
> systems on the network, with a Python 3.4 IIRC, and there've been no
> stability problems lately. Both options are pretty easy. 

I'm not so sure.
There's quite a brawl going on right now on debian users over
systemd.
[I am running testing myself]

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#77723

On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 6:09 PM, Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> wrote:
>>  Does anyone have experience with using newer versions of python
>> debian packages (in particular, python3 and python3-bson-ext from
>> 'testing') on older stable versions ('wheezy' in this case)? If
>> someone's figured out how to do this easily, I'd love to hear the
>> recipe!
>
> Wheezy appears to have a python3 (though not the latest)
> https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/python3

I think the point of "python3 from testing" is because the python3
package in Wheezy is 3.2.3. (And if he hadn't explicitly told us he's
using Wheezy, it could have been Squeeze, which went out of primary
support just a few months ago, and is still in Long-Term Support for a
couple of years. Squeeze ships Python 3.1.)

All my Wheezy systems have a locally-compiled Python. But then, I've
been installing quite a few Jessie (testing) systems, for various
reasons (support for our network scanner being one of them), and the
one really important Wheezy system here is my personal dev system
where I worked on the PEP 463 branch, so compiling CPython from source
was absolutely necessary. :)

> Chris said:
>> Alternatively, you could just run Debian Jessie. I have a few Jessie
>> systems on the network, with a Python 3.4 IIRC, and there've been no
>> stability problems lately. Both options are pretty easy.
>
> I'm not so sure.
> There's quite a brawl going on right now on debian users over
> systemd.
> [I am running testing myself]

Sadly, yes. I wish these things could be resolved on technical grounds
rather than political. I'm certain that systemd is superior to
sysvinit; I'm fairly sure it's superior to Upstart, and others I don't
have experience with. The technical downsides are few - it's
Linux-only (or was last I checked - this stuff can change), and it's
fairly invasive, needing kernel support. Most of the issues are
political ("how much power will Red Hat have?") and I have no interest
in arguing those.

But frankly, that's not really much different from the OpenOffice vs
Libre Office battles. Most people just don't care. I mean, let's face
it, there are a lot of people who wouldn't care (and maybe wouldn't
even notice) if you just go in and rename all the menu items to
"Microsoft Excel" and "Microsoft Word" and so on, and claim it's a
port of MS Office! If the average user doesn't care about an
application that's right in the face, why will s/he care about an init
system? "This one means the system boots faster." "Fine! Good enough
for me."

ChrisA

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#77736

On Tuesday, September 9, 2014 2:53:53 PM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 6:09 PM, Rustom Mody  wrote:
> >>  Does anyone have experience with using newer versions of python
> >> debian packages (in particular, python3 and python3-bson-ext from
> >> 'testing') on older stable versions ('wheezy' in this case)? If
> >> someone's figured out how to do this easily, I'd love to hear the
> >> recipe!
> > Wheezy appears to have a python3 (though not the latest)
> > https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/python3

> I think the point of "python3 from testing" is because the python3
> package in Wheezy is 3.2.3. (And if he hadn't explicitly told us he's
> using Wheezy, it could have been Squeeze, which went out of primary
> support just a few months ago, and is still in Long-Term Support for a
> couple of years. Squeeze ships Python 3.1.)

> All my Wheezy systems have a locally-compiled Python. But then, I've
> been installing quite a few Jessie (testing) systems, for various
> reasons (support for our network scanner being one of them), and the
> one really important Wheezy system here is my personal dev system
> where I worked on the PEP 463 branch, so compiling CPython from source
> was absolutely necessary. :)

> > Chris said:
> >> Alternatively, you could just run Debian Jessie. I have a few Jessie
> >> systems on the network, with a Python 3.4 IIRC, and there've been no
> >> stability problems lately. Both options are pretty easy.
> > I'm not so sure.
> > There's quite a brawl going on right now on debian users over
> > systemd.
> > [I am running testing myself]

> Sadly, yes. I wish these things could be resolved on technical grounds
> rather than political. I'm certain that systemd is superior to
> sysvinit; I'm fairly sure it's superior to Upstart, and others I don't
> have experience with. The technical downsides are few - it's
> Linux-only (or was last I checked - this stuff can change), and it's
> fairly invasive, needing kernel support. Most of the issues are
> political ("how much power will Red Hat have?") and I have no interest
> in arguing those.

> But frankly, that's not really much different from the OpenOffice vs
> Libre Office battles. Most people just don't care. I mean, let's face
> it, there are a lot of people who wouldn't care (and maybe wouldn't
> even notice) if you just go in and rename all the menu items to
> "Microsoft Excel" and "Microsoft Word" and so on, and claim it's a
> port of MS Office! If the average user doesn't care about an
> application that's right in the face, why will s/he care about an init
> system? "This one means the system boots faster." "Fine! Good enough
> for me."

I thought so too viz that the problems were teething troubles.
However the rants on debian-dev seem to be following from extensive breakage
from systemd.

Also there is this thread in which systemd broke the standard
kernel debugging options -- ok bugs happen.
And then the systemd devs refuse to admit to their bug. I find this alarming.

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#77738

On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 1:23 AM, Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> wrote:
> I thought so too viz that the problems were teething troubles.
> However the rants on debian-dev seem to be following from extensive breakage
> from systemd.
>
> Also there is this thread in which systemd broke the standard
> kernel debugging options -- ok bugs happen.
> And then the systemd devs refuse to admit to their bug. I find this alarming.

Well, I'm just going to point out that this is off-topic for
python-list, because I *really* don't want to get caught in the vortex
of a discussion like this :) I'm so glad I'm not subscribed to
debian-dev.

ChrisA

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