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best text editor for programming Python on a Mac

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  best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Chris <cspears2002@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-17 16:52 -0700
    Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-17 17:19 -0700
      Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2016-06-17 17:36 -0700
        Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2016-06-20 01:39 -0700
    Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2016-06-18 01:58 +0100
      Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-17 18:50 -0700
        Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-18 12:05 +1000
    Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-18 11:55 +1000
    Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Zachary Ware <zachary.ware+pylist@gmail.com> - 2016-06-17 20:59 -0500
    Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac support@ecourierz.com - 2016-06-17 22:18 -0700
      Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Michael Vilain <mev94303y@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-18 00:04 -0700
        Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2016-06-18 05:09 -0400
        Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-18 12:40 +0300
          Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 03:08 -0700
            Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Michael Vilain <mev94303y@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-18 07:12 -0700
          Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2016-06-18 13:22 +0000
          Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Michael Vilain <mev94303y@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-18 07:08 -0700
            Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-06-18 16:08 -0400
          Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 09:02 -0700
        Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-06-20 10:38 +1200
    best text editor for programming Python on a Mac MrJean1 <MrJean1@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 08:52 -0700
    Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 17:07 -0600
      Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 17:12 -0700
        Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 20:26 -0400
          Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Pete Forman <petef4+usenet@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 11:41 +0100
            Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-19 15:57 +0300
            Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 07:19 -0600
              Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 09:20 -0700
                Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2016-06-19 20:06 +0200
                  Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 11:13 -0700
                  Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 13:04 -0600
                Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 12:58 -0600
                  Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-20 11:32 +1000
                    ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 19:07 -0700
                      Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac) Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-20 13:29 +1000
                        Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac) Phil Boutros <philb@philb.ca> - 2016-06-20 04:30 +0000
                          Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 22:03 -0700
                            Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac) Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-06-20 02:04 -0400
                              Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-20 07:00 -0700
                          Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-20 00:57 -0700
                            Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-20 20:24 +1000
                          Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac) Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> - 2016-06-20 14:23 +0000
                            Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac) Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-21 01:00 +1000
                              Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-20 08:12 -0700
                        Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 21:36 -0700
                          Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 21:41 -0700
                        Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac) Larry Hudson <orgnut@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-21 00:40 -0700
                          Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-21 11:35 +0300
                            Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-21 03:46 -0700
                              Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-21 16:08 +0300
                                Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-21 06:56 -0700
                                  Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-21 07:11 -0700
                                  Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-22 19:01 -0700
                                    Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-22 19:07 -0700
                                Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-21 07:29 -0700
                                  Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-21 21:56 +0300
                                    Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac) Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2016-06-21 14:42 -0500
                                      Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-21 23:08 +0300
                                      Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-22 00:55 -0700
                                        Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac) Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2016-06-22 06:09 -0500
                            Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac) Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2016-06-21 10:08 -0500
                    Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2016-06-19 21:41 -0500
          Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Quivis <quivis@domain.invalid> - 2016-06-19 21:21 +0000
            Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 16:15 -0600
              Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2016-06-20 09:37 +0200
        Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 18:50 -0600
        Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 19:01 -0600
        Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 20:09 -0600
          Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 19:51 -0700
            Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 22:54 -0600
              Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 22:57 -0700
            Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 22:56 -0600
            Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2016-06-19 06:36 -0500
        Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2016-06-19 09:13 +0200
          Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 00:34 -0700
            Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 00:47 -0700
            Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2016-06-19 09:57 +0200
            Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 07:23 -0600
              Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2016-06-20 08:30 +0000
        Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-06-20 10:44 +1200
          Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-20 00:59 -0700
          Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-06-20 09:26 -0400
            Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2016-06-20 15:36 +0200
              Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-20 06:48 -0700
                Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2016-06-20 16:03 +0200
    best text editor for programming Python on a Mac drednot57 <dpresley@midiowa.net> - 2016-06-18 19:48 -0700
    Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac jennifer.greeen@gmail.com - 2016-07-06 03:25 -0700
    Re: best text editor for programming Python on a Mac jennifer.greeen@gmail.com - 2016-07-06 03:27 -0700

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#110190 — Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac)

On Monday 20 June 2016 17:57, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

> On Monday, June 20, 2016 at 4:31:00 PM UTC+12, Phil Boutros wrote:
>>
>> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>>
>>> This is how I write x≠y from scratch:
>> <snip long, arduous process>
>> 
>>     To wrap this back full circle, here's how it's done on vim:
>> 
>> Ctrl-K, =, ! (last two steps interchangeable).  Done.  Result:  ≠
> 
> Standard Linux sequence: compose-slash-equals (or compose-equals-slash).
> Works in every sensible editor, terminal emulator, text-input field in web
> browsers and other GUI apps. In short, everywhere.

Everywhere compose is configured the way you expect.


> <http://wiki.wlug.org.nz/ComposeKey>

Nice link, thank you, although missing a few things. Like how to query which 
key is the compose key, and how to specify a key other than CapsLock. But 
there's always Google, I suppose.

According to that link: "By default this function is not assigned to any key."

So... not so much "everywhere" as "by default, nowhere".


-- 
Steve

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#110202 — Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac)

On 2016-06-20, Phil Boutros <philb@philb.ca> wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> wrote:
>>
>> Quote:
>>
>> "Why do we have to write x!=y then argue about the status of x<>y when we
>> can simply write x≠y?"
>>
>> "Simply"?
>>
>> This is how I write x≠y from scratch:
><snip long, arduous process>
>
>     To wrap this back full circle, here's how it's done on vim:  
>
> Ctrl-K, =, ! (last two steps interchangeable).  Done.  Result:  ≠

On any non-broken X11 system it's: <compose> = /

I generally configure my system so that the right-hand "windows" key
is <compose>.  If I used it a lot, I'd probably configure the left
hand one to be the same.

> It's still probably a horrible idea to have it in a programming
> language, though, unless the original behaviour still also works.

Definitely.  And we should allow overbar for logical inversion.  I
never did figure out the X11 compose sequence for the XOR symbol...

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Somewhere in DOWNTOWN
                                  at               BURBANK a prostitute is
                              gmail.com            OVERCOOKING a LAMB CHOP!!

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#110204 — Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac)

On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 12:23 am, Grant Edwards wrote:

> On 2016-06-20, Phil Boutros <philb@philb.ca> wrote:
[...]
>> Ctrl-K, =, ! (last two steps interchangeable).  Done.  Result:  ≠
> 
> On any non-broken X11 system it's: <compose> = /

Nope, doesn't work for me. I guess I've got a "broken" X11 system.

Oh, I did learn one thing, thanks to Lawrence's earlier link: the compose
key behaves as a dead-key, not a modifier.



-- 
Steven

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#110205 — Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac)

On Monday, June 20, 2016 at 8:30:25 PM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 12:23 am, Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
> > On 2016-06-20, Phil Boutros  wrote:
> [...]
> >> Ctrl-K, =, ! (last two steps interchangeable).  Done.  Result:  ≠
> > 
> > On any non-broken X11 system it's: <compose> = /
> 
> Nope, doesn't work for me. I guess I've got a "broken" X11 system.
> 
> Oh, I did learn one thing, thanks to Lawrence's earlier link: the compose
> key behaves as a dead-key, not a modifier.
> 

You need to say something like
$ setxkbmap  -option compose:menu

then the windows menu key becomes the compose key
Or
$ setxkbmap  -option compose:ralt

then its the right-alt

You can check whats currently the state of xkb with
$ setxkbmap -print

And you can clean up with a bare
$ setkkb -option

else these options 'pile-up' as a  -print would show

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#110170 — Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac)

On Monday, June 20, 2016 at 8:59:44 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> Without better tooling and more discoverability, non-ASCII characters as
> syntax are an anti-feature.

You need to decide which hat you have on
- idealist
- pragmatist

From a pragmatic pov nothing you are saying below is arguable.

The argument starts because you are taking the moral high ground against
a *title* and presumably the mnemonic (the 'a' in :ga) in the vi docs.
Ignoring that the implementation and the doc-body are aligned with current practices



> Getting back to ≠ I tried:
> 

I have greater horror-stories to describe if you like
On my recent ubuntu upgrade my keyboard broke -- totally ie cant type anything.
Here's a detailed rundown...

Upgrade complete; reboot -- NO KEYBOARD -- Yikes
However login works in X -- after login ... GONE
And ttys (Ctrl-Alt-F1 etc) fine; no issue.
<Head scratching>
Searched around.. "Uninstall ibus" seems to be the advice... No go
Some Unity issue it looks?
Installed xfce (from tty)

Again after few days (some upgrade dont remember which) keyboard broken
Um Now what to install? gnome?? OMG!

Created a new login... Problem gone...

Well whats the problem?? Well whatever!!
Finally by chance discovered that the problem was probably uim
uim is an alternative to ibus
I had installed it to make this work:
https://github.com/rrthomas/pointless-xcompose

which is aimed precisely at removing this pain:


> This is how I write x≠y from scratch:
> 
> - press the 'x' key on my keyboard
> - grab the mouse
> - move mouse to Start menu
> - pause and wait for "Utilities" submenu to appear
> - move mouse over "Utilities" submenu
> - pause and wait for "More Applications" submenu to appear
> - move mouse to "More Applications" submenu
> - move mouse to "Gnome charmap"
> - click
> - wait a second
> - move mouse to "Character Map" window
> - click on "Search" menu
> - click on "Find" menu item
> - release mouse
> - type "unequal" and press ENTER
> - press ENTER to dismiss the "Not Found" dialog
> - type "not equal" and press ENTER
> - press ESC to dismiss the Find dialog
> - grab the mouse
> - click the ≠ glyph
> - pause and swear when nothing happens
> - double-click the ≠ glyph
> - move the mouse to the "Copy" button
> - click "Copy"
> - visually search the task bar for my editor
> - click on the editor
> - invariably I end up accidentally moving the insertion point, 
>   so click after the 'x'
> - release the mouse
> - press Ctrl-V
> - press the 'y' key
> 
> and I am done.
> 

So yeah...
- Remedy worse than evil? Sure
- Unpractical? of course.

So also thought programmers in the 70s, when presented with possibility of 
using lowercase when everyone used FORTRAN, COBOL and PL/1 and programming meant
CODING ON CODING SHEETS LIKE THIS

BTW the maverick that offered this completely unnecessarily wasteful luxury was
called Unix

> In theory most Linux apps support an X mechanism for inserting characters
> that don't appear on the keyboard. Unfortunately, this gives no feedback
> when you get it wrong, and discoverablity is terrible. It's taken me many
> years to discover and learn the following:
> 
> WIN o WIN o gives °
> WIN m WIN u gives µ
> WIN s WIN s gives ß
> WIN . . gives ·
> 
> (WIN is the Windows key)
> 

Heres a small sample of what you get with xcompose
[compose key can be anything; in my case its set to right-alt]
COMP oo °
COMP mu µ
COMP 12 ½
COMP <> ↔
COMP => ⇒
COMP -v ↓
COMP ^^i ⁱ  Likewise n ⁿ

Nifty when it works; nicely parameterisable -- just edit ~/.XCompose
But mind your next upgrade :D
COMP -^ ↑

> > 
> > http://blog.languager.org/2014/04/unicoded-python.html
> 
> Quote:
> 
> "Why do we have to write x!=y then argue about the status of x<>y when we
> can simply write x≠y?"
> 
> "Simply"?
> 

Early adopters by definition live on the bleeding edge
So "not simple" today ⇏ "not simple" tomorrow

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#110171 — Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac)

On Monday, June 20, 2016 at 10:06:41 AM UTC+5:30, Rustom Mody wrote:

> I have greater horror-stories to describe if you like
> On my recent ubuntu upgrade my keyboard broke -- totally ie cant type anything.
> Here's a detailed rundown...
> 
> Upgrade complete; reboot -- NO KEYBOARD -- Yikes
> However login works in X -- after login ... GONE
> And ttys (Ctrl-Alt-F1 etc) fine; no issue.
> <Head scratching>
> Searched around.. "Uninstall ibus" seems to be the advice... No go
> Some Unity issue it looks?
> Installed xfce (from tty)
> 
> Again after few days (some upgrade dont remember which) keyboard broken
> Um Now what to install? gnome?? OMG!
> 
> Created a new login... Problem gone...
> 
> Well whats the problem?? Well whatever!!
> Finally by chance discovered that the problem was probably uim
> uim is an alternative to ibus
> I had installed it to make this work:
> https://github.com/rrthomas/pointless-xcompose
> 
> which is aimed precisely at removing this pain:

Umm that comes across as an inversion and misrepresentation.
uim got UNINSTALLED in the upgrade
[I did it and forgot? it automatically happened?? Dont remember]
No uim; no ibus; no input method evidently

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#110218 — Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac)

On 06/19/2016 08:29 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Jun 2016 12:07 pm, Rustom Mody wrote:
>
[snip]
> In theory most Linux apps support an X mechanism for inserting characters
> that don't appear on the keyboard. Unfortunately, this gives no feedback
> when you get it wrong, and discoverablity is terrible. It's taken me many
> years to discover and learn the following:
>
> WIN o WIN o gives °
> WIN m WIN u gives µ
> WIN s WIN s gives ß
> WIN . . gives ·
>
> (WIN is the Windows key)
>
> Getting back to ≠ I tried:
>
> WIN = WIN /
> WIN / WIN =
> WIN < WIN >
> WIN ! WIN =
>
> etc none of which do anything.
>
> Another example of missing tooling is the lack of a good keyboard
> application. Back in the 1980s, Apple Macs had a desk accessory that didn't
> just simulate the keyboard, but showed what characters were available. If
> you held down the Option key, the on-screen keyboard would display the
> characters each key would insert. This increased discoverability and made
> it practical for Hypertalk to accept non-ASCII synonyms such as
>
> ≤ for <=
> ≥ for >=
> ≠ for <>
>
> Without better tooling and more discoverability, non-ASCII characters as
> syntax are an anti-feature.
>
>
>
It sounds like you are almost, but not quite, describing the Linux Compose key.  To get many of 
the 'special' characters, you first press the compose key and follow it with (usually) two 
characters.  (That's ONE press of the compose key, not two like your first examples.)  And yes, 
the unequal sign is <compose> =/

Here are some more examples (I'm not going to specify the <Compose> key here, just assume these 
examples are prefixed with it):  These are all pretty easy to remember.
German umlauts a" o" u" give ä ö ü  (or use uppercase)
Spanish eña (spelling?) and punctuations:  n~ ?? !!  -->  ñ ¿ ¡
French accents:  e' e` e^ c,  -->  é è ê ç
Money:  c= l- y- c/  -->  € £ ¥ ¢
Math:  =/ -: +- xx <= >=  -->  ≠ ÷ ± × ≤ ≥
Superscripts:  ^0 ^1 ^2 ^3  -->  ⁰ ¹ ² ³
Simple fractions:  12 13 ... 78  -->  ½ ⅓ ... ⅞
Here's a cute one:  CCCP  -->  ☭  (hammer & sickle)
And like your first examples:  oo mu ss  -->  ° µ ß
Many MANY more obscure codes as well (have to look them up, or make a copy of this info.)

Admittedly not much use in programming, but can be useful for other general text.

Now, setting the compose key...  Easy (but obscure) in Mint Linux (and I think Ubuntu is the 
same.  I don't know about other distros.):

 From the menu, select Preferences->Keyboard->Layouts->Options->Position of Compose Key
This opens a list of checkboxes with about a dozen choices -- select whatever you want (I use 
the Menu key).

-- 
      -=- Larry -=-

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#110222 — Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac)

Larry Hudson <orgnut@yahoo.com>:
> It sounds like you are almost, but not quite, describing the Linux
> Compose key.

I have used Linux since the 1990's but don't know anything about "the
Linux Compose key." (On the other hand, I have always specified my
preferred keyboard layout with .Xmodmap.)

> These are all pretty easy to remember.
> German umlauts a" o" u" give ä ö ü  (or use uppercase)
> Spanish eña (spelling?) and punctuations:  n~ ?? !!  -->  ñ ¿ ¡
> French accents:  e' e` e^ c,  -->  é è ê ç
> Money:  c= l- y- c/  -->  € £ ¥ ¢
> Math:  =/ -: +- xx <= >=  -->  ≠ ÷ ± × ≤ ≥
> Superscripts:  ^0 ^1 ^2 ^3  -->  ⁰ ¹ ² ³
> Simple fractions:  12 13 ... 78  -->  ½ ⅓ ... ⅞
> Here's a cute one:  CCCP  -->  ☭  (hammer & sickle)
> And like your first examples:  oo mu ss  -->  ° µ ß

Trouble is, nobody's going to guess or memorize any of that stuff. The
Chinese face analogous typing issues. They must have come up with
productive solutions since demonstrably they can type quite fast.


Marko

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#110225 — Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac)

On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 2:05:55 PM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Larry Hudson :
> > It sounds like you are almost, but not quite, describing the Linux
> > Compose key.
> 
> I have used Linux since the 1990's but don't know anything about "the
> Linux Compose key." 

It used to be a real (aka hardware) key:
See pics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compose_key#Occurrence_on_keyboards


> (On the other hand, I have always specified my preferred keyboard layout with .Xmodmap.)

If this is being given as advice its bad advice
xmodmap is obsolete use xkb
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/X_KeyBoard_extension#xmodmap
[Does this make life easier?? Didnt say so :-) ]
This particularly nasty bug: h
ttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/998310
I believe I witnessed when I tried to use xmodmap

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#110231 — Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac)

Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com>:

> On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 2:05:55 PM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> (On the other hand, I have always specified my preferred keyboard
>> layout with .Xmodmap.)
>
> If this is being given as advice

I never gave it as advice.

> its bad advice xmodmap is obsolete use xkb

A coworker of mine went through the trouble of doing the xmodmap
equivalent with setxkbmap. Thought of interviewing him about it one day.

How-to's are really hard to come by:

   <URL: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Keyboard_configuration_i
   n_Xorg> -- no good

   <URL: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=172316> -- no good

   <URL: http://michal.kosmulski.org/computing/articles/custom-keyboar
   d-layouts-xkb.html> -- interesting but assumes root access

   <URL: https://awesome.naquadah.org/wiki/Change_keyboard_maps> -- no
   good

etc etc

> This particularly nasty bug:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/998310 I believe
> I witnessed when I tried to use xmodmap

I do run into that when I place my laptop on the docker. I know to
expect it, wait for ten or so seconds, and I'm on my way. I'm guessing
it has to do with the X server sending the keyboard map to every X
window on the display.

So Rustom, how do *you* produce, say, Hebrew or Spanish text, or your
favorite math symbols?


Marko

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#110232 — Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac)

On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 6:38:19 PM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Rustom Mody :
> 
> > On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 2:05:55 PM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> >> (On the other hand, I have always specified my preferred keyboard
> >> layout with .Xmodmap.)
> >
> > If this is being given as advice
> 
> I never gave it as advice.
> 
> > its bad advice xmodmap is obsolete use xkb
> 
> A coworker of mine went through the trouble of doing the xmodmap
> equivalent with setxkbmap. Thought of interviewing him about it one day.
> 
> How-to's are really hard to come by:
> 
>    <URL: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Keyboard_configuration_i
>    n_Xorg> -- no good
> 
>    <URL: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=172316> -- no good
> 
>    <URL: http://michal.kosmulski.org/computing/articles/custom-keyboar
>    d-layouts-xkb.html> -- interesting but assumes root access
> 
>    <URL: https://awesome.naquadah.org/wiki/Change_keyboard_maps> -- no
>    good
> 
> etc etc
> 
> > This particularly nasty bug:
> > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/998310 I believe
> > I witnessed when I tried to use xmodmap
> 
> I do run into that when I place my laptop on the docker. I know to
> expect it, wait for ten or so seconds, and I'm on my way. I'm guessing
> it has to do with the X server sending the keyboard map to every X
> window on the display.
> 
> So Rustom, how do *you* produce, say, Hebrew or Spanish text, or your
> favorite math symbols?

I wish I could say I have a good answer -- ATM dont
However some ½-assed ones:


Emacs:
set-input-method (C-x RET C-\) greek
And then typing
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
gives
αβψδεφγηιξκλμνοπ;ρστθωςχυζ
[yeah that ; on q is curious]

Spanish?? No idea
But there seems to be a spanish input method that
has these éóñá¿

Ive typed Hindi/Marathi/Tamil/Sanskrit/Gujarati and helped others with Bengali
using devanagari-itrans/gujarati-itrans/tamil-itrans/bengali-itrans input
methods. There are also the corresponding -inscript methods for those that
type these fluently -- I am not one of those.

I have some 15-20 lines of elisp that makes these itrans uses easier (for me)

Math: So far Ive used tex input method -- Not satisfactory
Search-n-cut-paste from google is better!
My favorite goto for these are Xah Lee's pages:
Starts here: http://xahlee.info/comp/unicode_index.html

Some neat xah pages: http://xahlee.info/comp/unicode_matching_brackets.html
http://xahlee.info/comp/unicode_arrows.html
http://xahlee.info/comp/unicode_math_operators.html

Some of this is replicatable at setxkbmap level
[Note: these commands are dangerous as you can have a borked X system.
Of course temporarily
One safety catch is to keep
setxkbmap -option
in the bash history
So (assuming up-arrow still works) goofups are correctable 
]

eg Doing
$ setxkbmap -layout "us,apl(sax)" -option "grp:switch"
gives an APL keyboard on shift-rAlt chord
So abcdefghijklmnop
chorded gives
with RtAlt
⍺⊥∩⌊∊_∇∆⍳∘⎕|⊤○*?⍴⌈~↓∪⍵⊂⊃↑⊂
Along with RAlt-Shift
⊖⍎⌊⍷⍫⍒⍋⍸⍤⌻⍞⌶⍕⍥⍟¿⍴⌈⍉↓∪⌽⊃↑⊂

I guess expert APLers may find this neat -- I am not one!

So I use this emacs-mode https://github.com/lokedhs/gnu-apl-mode
when using APL (mostly teaching)

Then there is compose
For this Ive a compose key set
[With laptops and ubuntu-unity ths can get hard
1. Unity appropriates too many keys
2. Laptops have key shortage
 -- Ive just changed to CAPSLOCK to try out]

Then install uim
Then install https://github.com/rrthomas/pointless-xcompose

The whole point of that is to edit that to get it to have those chars that 
one wants accessible and not others... Ive not got round to that!

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#110234 — Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac)

On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 7:27:00 PM UTC+5:30, Rustom Mody wrote:
> Emacs:
:
> Math: So far Ive used tex input method -- Not satisfactory

After "Random832" pointed me to RFC1345 I checked that emacs has an
RFC1345 input method. It may be nicer than tex input method -- need to check
However like everything unicode there is no attempt to distinguish the babel
part of unicode and the universal part:
http://blog.languager.org/2015/03/whimsical-unicode.html

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#110350 — Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac)

On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 7:27:00 PM UTC+5:30, Rustom Mody wrote:
> >    <URL: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Keyboard_configuration_i
> >    n_Xorg> -- no good

You probably want this:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/X_KeyBoard_extension#Editing_the_layout

> > So Rustom, how do *you* produce, say, Hebrew or Spanish text, or your
> > favorite math symbols?
> 
> I wish I could say I have a good answer -- ATM dont
> However some ½-assed ones:
> 
> 
> Emacs:
> set-input-method (C-x RET C-\) greek
> And then typing
> abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
> gives
> αβψδεφγηιξκλμνοπ;ρστθωςχυζ
> [yeah that ; on q is curious]
> 
> Spanish?? No idea
> But there seems to be a spanish input method that
> has these éóñá¿
> 
> Ive typed Hindi/Marathi/Tamil/Sanskrit/Gujarati and helped others with Bengali
> using devanagari-itrans/gujarati-itrans/tamil-itrans/bengali-itrans input
> methods. There are also the corresponding -inscript methods for those that
> type these fluently -- I am not one of those.
> 
> I have some 15-20 lines of elisp that makes these itrans uses easier (for me)
... etc

A couple of people wrote me off list thanking me for emacs-unicode knowhow

  <Heh!>

So remembered that there is one method -- yes clunky -- that I use most -- 
forgot to mention -- C-x 8 RET 
ie insert-char¹

Which takes the name (or hex) of the unicode char.
Nice thing is there is some amount of Tab-*-completion available which makes
it possible to fish around for chars after knowing/remembering part of the name

So with ↹ showing TAB²
Superscr↹
expands to
SUPERSCRIPT
One more ↹ gives
======================
Click on a completion to select it.
In this buffer, type RET to select the completion near point.

Possible completions are:
SUPERSCRIPT CLOSING PARENTHESIS 	SUPERSCRIPT DIGIT EIGHT
SUPERSCRIPT DIGIT FIVE 	SUPERSCRIPT DIGIT FOUR
SUPERSCRIPT DIGIT NINE 	SUPERSCRIPT DIGIT ONE
SUPERSCRIPT DIGIT SEVEN 	SUPERSCRIPT DIGIT SIX
SUPERSCRIPT DIGIT THREE 	SUPERSCRIPT DIGIT TWO
SUPERSCRIPT DIGIT ZERO 	SUPERSCRIPT EIGHT
SUPERSCRIPT EQUALS SIGN 	SUPERSCRIPT FIVE
SUPERSCRIPT FOUR 	SUPERSCRIPT HYPHEN-MINUS
SUPERSCRIPT LATIN SMALL LETTER I 	SUPERSCRIPT LATIN SMALL LETTER N
SUPERSCRIPT LEFT PARENTHESIS 	SUPERSCRIPT MINUS
SUPERSCRIPT NINE 	SUPERSCRIPT ONE
SUPERSCRIPT OPENING PARENTHESIS 	SUPERSCRIPT PLUS SIGN
SUPERSCRIPT RIGHT PARENTHESIS 	SUPERSCRIPT SEVEN
SUPERSCRIPT SIX 	SUPERSCRIPT THREE
SUPERSCRIPT TWO 	SUPERSCRIPT ZERO
================================
Adding a d narrows to
SUPERSCRIPT DIGIT

One more ↹ narrows to
Possible completions are:
SUPERSCRIPT DIGIT EIGHT 	SUPERSCRIPT DIGIT FIVE 	SUPERSCRIPT DIGIT FOUR
SUPERSCRIPT DIGIT NINE 	SUPERSCRIPT DIGIT ONE 	SUPERSCRIPT DIGIT SEVEN
SUPERSCRIPT DIGIT SIX 	SUPERSCRIPT DIGIT THREE 	SUPERSCRIPT DIGIT TWO
SUPERSCRIPT DIGIT ZERO

* can also be used as glob for parts of the name one does not remember
So since there are zillions of chars that are some kind of ARROW
One can write Right*arrow↹
Still too many
Narrow further to Right*Double*Arrow↹ 
And we get

Possible completions are:
RIGHT DOUBLE ARROW 	RIGHT DOUBLE ARROW WITH ROUNDED HEAD
RIGHT DOUBLE ARROW WITH STROKE 	RIGHTWARDS DOUBLE ARROW
RIGHTWARDS DOUBLE ARROW FROM BAR 	RIGHTWARDS DOUBLE ARROW WITH STROKE
RIGHTWARDS DOUBLE ARROW WITH VERTICAL STROKE
RIGHTWARDS DOUBLE ARROW-TAIL 	RIGHTWARDS DOUBLE DASH ARROW 

etc
===================
¹ Steven will be mighty pleased to note that it used to be called ucs-insert
For which now the help page gives:
"This function is obsolete since 24.3; use `insert-char' instead."

² Courtesy Xah Lee: http://xahlee.info/comp/unicode_computing_symbols.html

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#110351 — Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac)

On Thursday, June 23, 2016 at 2:02:18 PM UTC+12, Rustom Mody wrote:

> So remembered that there is one method -- yes clunky -- that I use most -- 
> forgot to mention -- C-x 8 RET 
> ie insert-char¹
> 
> Which takes the name (or hex) of the unicode char.

A handy tool for looking up names and codes is the unicode(1) command <https://packages.debian.org/jessie/unicode>.

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#110236 — Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac)

On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 6:38:19 PM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> A coworker of mine went through the trouble of doing the xmodmap
> equivalent with setxkbmap. Thought of interviewing him about it one day.
> 
> How-to's are really hard to come by:
> 
>    <URL: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Keyboard_configuration_i
>    n_Xorg> -- no good
> 
>    <URL: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=172316> -- no good
> 
>    <URL: http://michal.kosmulski.org/computing/articles/custom-keyboar
>    d-layouts-xkb.html> -- interesting but assumes root access
> 
>    <URL: https://awesome.naquadah.org/wiki/Change_keyboard_maps> -- no
>    good

Regarding xkb:

Some good advice given to me by Yuri Khan on emacs list
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2015-01/msg00332.html

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#110262 — Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac)

Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com>:

> Regarding xkb:
>
> Some good advice given to me by Yuri Khan on emacs list
> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2015-01/msg00332.html

Well, not quite:

   * Find the XKB data directory. [Normally, this is /usr/share/X11/xkb.]
   * In its “keycodes” subdirectory, create a file that is unlikely to be
   overwritten by a future version of XKB (e.g. by prefixing it with your
   initials). [Let’s name it “rusi” for the sake of this example.]
   * In this file, paste the following:
   [...]

You can see this advice requires root access.

My coworker does assure me it can all be done with regular luser rights
as well, but no web site seems to say how exactly.


Marko

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#110265 — Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac)

On 2016-06-21 21:56, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com>:
> 
> > Regarding xkb:
> >
> > Some good advice given to me by Yuri Khan on emacs list
> > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2015-01/msg00332.html
> 
> Well, not quite:
> 
>    * Find the XKB data directory. [Normally, this
> is /usr/share/X11/xkb.]
>    * In its “keycodes” subdirectory, create a file that is unlikely
> to be overwritten by a future version of XKB (e.g. by prefixing it
> with your initials). [Let’s name it “rusi” for the sake of this
> example.]
>    * In this file, paste the following:
>    [...]
> 
> You can see this advice requires root access.
> 
> My coworker does assure me it can all be done with regular luser
> rights as well, but no web site seems to say how exactly.

I have a ~/.XCompose file that contains something like

include "%L"
<Multi_key> <colon> <s>             : "😖"   U1F616 # CONFOUNDED FACE
<Multi_key> <colon> <p>             : "😛"   U1F61B # FACE WITH
STUCK-OUT TONGUE <Multi_key> <colon> <P>             : "😛"   U1F61B #
FACE WITH STUCK-OUT TONGUE


The "include" pulls in the system-wide file, before adding my own
compose maps.

-tkc

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#110266 — Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac)

Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com>:

> I have a ~/.XCompose file that contains something like

My Fedora 23 setup has

=== BEGIN /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc-common=================================
[...]
userxkbmap=$HOME/.Xkbmap
[...]
if [ -r "$userxkbmap" ]; then
    setxkbmap $(cat "$userxkbmap")
    XKB_IN_USE=yes
fi
[...]
=== END /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc-common===================================

A somewhat surprising and scary idiom! I suppose I could specify:

===BEGIN ~/.Xkbmap======================================================
-keymap /home/marko/.keys
===END ~/.Xkbmap========================================================

Then, I suppose I need to use xkbcomp to create ~/.keys


Marko

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#110303 — Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac)

On Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 7:50:50 AM UTC+12, Tim Chase wrote:
>
> I have a ~/.XCompose file that contains something like
> 
> include "%L"
> <Multi_key> <colon> <s>             : "😖"   U1F616 # CONFOUNDED FACE
> <Multi_key> <colon> <p>             : "😛"   U1F61B # FACE WITH
> STUCK-OUT TONGUE <Multi_key> <colon> <P>             : "😛"   U1F61B #
> FACE WITH STUCK-OUT TONGUE
> 
> 
> The "include" pulls in the system-wide file, before adding my own
> compose maps.

You may find your custom XCompose is ignored by certain GUI apps. This is because the GUI toolkits they are using need to be told to pull it in (seems like XCompose is interpreted by the client side X toolkits, not the server side). So I put the following lines in my .bashrc:

    export GTK_IM_MODULE=xim
    export QT_IM_MODULE=xim

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#110311 — Re: ASCII or Unicode? (was best text editor for programming Python on a Mac)

On 2016-06-22 00:55, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 7:50:50 AM UTC+12, Tim Chase wrote:
>> I have a ~/.XCompose file that contains something like
> 
> You may find your custom XCompose is ignored by certain GUI apps.
> This is because the GUI toolkits they are using need to be told to
> pull it in (seems like XCompose is interpreted by the client side X
> toolkits, not the server side). So I put the following lines in
> my .bashrc:
> 
>     export GTK_IM_MODULE=xim
>     export QT_IM_MODULE=xim

Ah, I knew that I'd had issues at some point with it not working but
couldn't remember what I'd done to get it working.  This was it.
(grepping for "XCompose" in my config files didn't turn up anything)

Thanks for adding the missing element.

-tkc

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