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Groups > comp.lang.python > #72539 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2014-06-03 17:28 +0000 |
| Last post | 2014-06-08 13:09 +1200 |
| Articles | 12 on this page of 132 — 27 participants |
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OT: This Swift thing Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-06-03 17:28 +0000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Alain Ketterlin <alain@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> - 2014-06-05 10:14 +0200
Re: OT: This Swift thing Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-06-05 18:38 +1000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Alain Ketterlin <alain@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> - 2014-06-05 11:42 +0200
Re: OT: This Swift thing Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-06-05 22:48 +1000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Alain Ketterlin <alain@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> - 2014-06-05 22:27 +0200
Re: OT: This Swift thing Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-06-05 22:28 +0100
Re: OT: This Swift thing Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-06-05 23:03 +0000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Alain Ketterlin <alain@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> - 2014-06-06 13:21 +0200
Re: OT: This Swift thing Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-06-07 01:54 +0000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Alain Ketterlin <alain@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> - 2014-06-07 10:20 +0200
Re: OT: This Swift thing Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-06-07 09:32 +0100
Re: OT: This Swift thing Alain Ketterlin <alain@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> - 2014-06-07 11:54 +0200
Re: OT: This Swift thing Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2014-06-15 10:55 +0200
Re: OT: This Swift thing Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-06-07 08:52 -0400
Re: OT: This Swift thing Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-06-07 11:13 -0400
Re: OT: This Swift thing Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-06-07 11:54 -0400
Re: OT: This Swift thing Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-06-07 17:10 -0400
Re: OT: This Swift thing Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-06-07 23:32 +0000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-06-06 00:41 +0100
Re: OT: This Swift thing Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-06-06 01:54 +0200
Re: OT: This Swift thing Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-06-05 20:13 -0400
Re: OT: This Swift thing Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-06-06 02:35 +0200
Re: OT: This Swift thing Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-06-06 05:45 +0000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Alain Ketterlin <alain@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> - 2014-06-06 13:39 +0200
Re: OT: This Swift thing Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-06-07 01:54 +0000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-06-06 02:03 +0200
Re: OT: This Swift thing wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-06-05 02:09 -0700
Re: OT: This Swift thing Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-06-05 16:10 +0200
Re: OT: This Swift thing Alain Ketterlin <alain@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> - 2014-06-05 22:07 +0200
Re: OT: This Swift thing Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-06-06 06:18 +1000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Alain Ketterlin <alain@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> - 2014-06-05 23:12 +0200
Re: OT: This Swift thing Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-06-05 23:02 +0000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-06-05 22:23 +0100
Re: OT: This Swift thing Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-06-06 00:53 +0300
Re: OT: This Swift thing Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-06-05 23:13 +0100
Re: OT: This Swift thing Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-06-06 02:52 +0000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2014-06-15 11:33 +0200
Re: OT: This Swift thing Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-06-15 16:10 +0300
Re: OT: This Swift thing Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-06-06 07:36 +1000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Alain Ketterlin <alain@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> - 2014-06-06 13:20 +0200
Re: OT: This Swift thing Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-06-06 22:23 +1000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2014-06-07 09:30 +0200
Re: OT: This Swift thing Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-06-05 18:18 -0400
Re: OT: This Swift thing Alain Ketterlin <alain@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> - 2014-06-06 13:11 +0200
Re: OT: This Swift thing Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-06-06 13:06 -0400
Re: OT: This Swift thing alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2014-06-10 15:32 +1000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-06-05 23:02 +0000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-06-05 23:08 +0000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-06-05 23:08 +0000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-06-06 09:21 +1000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-06-06 03:16 +0000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-06-06 13:27 +1000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-06-05 08:33 -0600
Re: OT: This Swift thing Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-06-06 01:44 +1000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-06-05 18:09 +0200
Re: OT: This Swift thing Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-06-05 11:18 -0600
Re: OT: This Swift thing Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-06-05 13:49 -0500
Re: OT: This Swift thing Travis Griggs <travisgriggs@gmail.com> - 2014-06-05 23:28 -0700
Re: OT: This Swift thing Alain Ketterlin <alain@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> - 2014-06-06 10:25 +0200
Re: OT: This Swift thing Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-06-06 20:41 -0600
Re: OT: This Swift thing Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-06-07 04:57 +0000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-06-07 11:23 -0400
Re: OT: This Swift thing Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-06-07 11:51 -0400
Re: OT: This Swift thing Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-06-07 19:18 +0300
Re: OT: This Swift thing MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-06-08 15:10 +0100
Re: OT: This Swift thing Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-06-07 11:37 -0600
Re: OT: This Swift thing Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-06-07 14:11 -0400
Re: OT: This Swift thing Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-06-07 13:00 -0600
Re: OT: This Swift thing Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-06-07 15:11 -0400
Re: OT: This Swift thing Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-06-07 17:59 -0400
Re: OT: This Swift thing Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-06-08 13:25 +1200
Re: OT: This Swift thing Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-06-07 23:38 +0000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-06-07 20:09 -0400
Re: OT: This Swift thing Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-06-08 10:37 +1000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-06-08 03:50 +0000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-06-08 10:51 -0400
Re: OT: This Swift thing Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2014-06-08 11:21 -0400
Re: OT: This Swift thing Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-06-08 12:09 -0400
Re: OT: This Swift thing Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2014-06-08 13:14 -0400
Re: OT: This Swift thing Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-06-09 03:25 +1000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-06-08 18:09 +0000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-06-09 04:16 +1000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-06-09 01:44 +0000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-06-08 19:24 -0700
Re: OT: This Swift thing Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-06-09 04:20 +0000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-06-08 23:32 -0700
Re: OT: This Swift thing Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-06-09 09:27 +0000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-06-09 04:51 -0700
Re: OT: This Swift thing Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-06-11 19:41 +1200
Re: OT: This Swift thing Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-06-11 13:44 +0000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-06-11 08:28 -0700
Re: OT: This Swift thing Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-06-12 02:08 +0000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-06-12 12:16 +1000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-06-12 09:06 +0000
Re: OT: This Swift thing alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-06-12 09:34 +0000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-06-12 23:32 +1200
Re: OT: This Swift thing Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2014-06-16 13:57 +0300
Re: OT: This Swift thing Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-06-17 10:12 +1200
Re: OT: This Swift thing Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-06-17 08:34 +1000
Re: OT: This Swift thing alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-06-17 11:16 +0000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2014-06-18 07:41 +0100
Re: OT: This Swift thing Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-06-12 05:54 -0700
Re: OT: This Swift thing Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-06-12 17:04 +0000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-06-13 03:18 +1000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-06-12 18:59 -0700
Re: OT: This Swift thing Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-06-13 03:26 +0000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2014-06-12 14:43 -0400
Re: OT: This Swift thing albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-06-27 23:21 +0000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Joshua Landau <joshua@landau.ws> - 2014-06-15 02:51 +0100
Re: OT: This Swift thing Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-06-15 03:33 +0000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2014-06-09 10:11 -0400
Re: OT: This Swift thing Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-06-09 17:27 +0300
Re: OT: This Swift thing Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-06-11 18:56 +1200
Re: OT: This Swift thing Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-06-09 09:14 -0400
Re: OT: This Swift thing Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-06-09 07:56 -0600
Re: OT: This Swift thing Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-06-09 17:30 +0300
Re: OT: This Swift thing Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-06-08 19:35 -0700
Re: OT: This Swift thing Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-06-09 12:23 +1000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-06-11 19:50 +1200
Re: OT: This Swift thing Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-06-11 12:34 +0000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-06-11 08:48 -0400
Re: OT: This Swift thing Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-06-11 20:17 -0400
Re: OT: This Swift thing Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-06-12 01:25 +0000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-06-12 14:11 +1200
Re: OT: This Swift thing Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2014-06-11 23:06 -0400
Re: OT: This Swift thing Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-06-13 08:55 -0400
Re: OT: This Swift thing Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-06-09 21:51 -0400
Re: OT: This Swift thing Carlos Anselmo Dias <carlos@premium-sponsor.com> - 2014-06-08 18:56 +0100
Re: OT: This Swift thing Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-06-08 23:34 +0000
Re: OT: This Swift thing Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-06-08 19:32 -0700
Re: OT: This Swift thing Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-06-08 13:09 +1200
Page 7 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7]
| From | Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-06-11 12:34 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <53984cd2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #73157 |
On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 19:50:20 +1200, Gregory Ewing wrote: > Chris Angelico wrote: >> So, let me get this straight. A CPU has to have a fan, but a car engine >> doesn't, because the car's moving at a hundred kays an hour. I have a >> suspicion the CPU fan moves air a bit slower than that. I'm not sure where Chris' message comes from, I can't see the original, so I'm guessing the context. Air cooled cars don't just cool the engine when they are travelling at 100kmh. Some air-cooled engines used a fan to blow extra air over the cooling fins, but many did not. Normal air flow is sufficient to keep them in a safe operating temperature, the hot engine warms the air, which flows away and is replaced by cooler air. It's possible to design CPUs to work the same way. My wife is using a PC right now with a 1.66GHz Atom CPU and no CPU fan. Even though the power supply fan died, the machine is still running perfectly, with two laptop HDDs, and no overheating. 1.66GHz is plenty fast enough for web browsing, word processing, email, etc. Go back 30 years, and I don't think that the average PC needed a CPU fan. Possibly not even a case fan. Just the normal air flow over a small heat sink was enough. And of course, your mobile phone has no room for a heat sink, unless it's tiny, and no fan. And people expect it to keep working even when shoved in their pocket. > If the car were *always* moving at 100km/h, it probably wouldn't need a > fan. > > In practice, all cars do have fans (even the ones that aren't > air-cooled), for the occasions when they're not moving that fast. That may be true of water-cooled engines *now*, but it's not a law of engineering. Many air-cooled engines do not (did not) require a fan, or only needed the extra cooling when stuck idling for long periods in hot weather. E.g. Beetles didn't use a fan. (A great idea for Germany, not so much for hot and dusty Southern California, as my wife can tell you.) > (BTW, so-called water-cooled engines are really air-cooled too, just not > by air flowing directly over the engine block. (Although marine engines > may be an exception.)) Yes, technically water-cooled engines are cooled by air too. The engine heats a coolant (despite the name, usually not water these days) which then heats the air. -- Steven D'Aprano http://import-that.dreamwidth.org/
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| From | Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-06-11 08:48 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <roy-67BFF8.08483611062014@news.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #73167 |
In article <53984cd2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>, Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote: > Yes, technically water-cooled engines are cooled by air too. The engine > heats a coolant (despite the name, usually not water these days) which > then heats the air. Not water??? I'm not aware of any water-cooled engines which use anything other than water. Well, OK, it's really a solution of ethylene or propylene glycol in water, but the water is what does most of the heat transfer. The glycol is just there to provide freezing point depression and boiling point elevation.
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| From | Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-06-11 20:17 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.11023.1402532266.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #73168 |
On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 08:48:36 -0400, Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> declaimed the
following:
>In article <53984cd2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>,
> Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
>
>> Yes, technically water-cooled engines are cooled by air too. The engine
>> heats a coolant (despite the name, usually not water these days) which
>> then heats the air.
>
>Not water??? I'm not aware of any water-cooled engines which use
>anything other than water. Well, OK, it's really a solution of ethylene
>or propylene glycol in water, but the water is what does most of the
>heat transfer. The glycol is just there to provide freezing point
>depression and boiling point elevation.
The point was that said coolant is, itself, cooled via an air/water
heat exchanger (the radiator -- which in most cars proceeds to then pass
the now-heated air back over the engine <G>)
--
Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN
wlfraed@ix.netcom.com HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
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| From | Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-06-12 01:25 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <5399019e$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #73168 |
On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 08:48:36 -0400, Roy Smith wrote: > In article <53984cd2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>, > Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote: > >> Yes, technically water-cooled engines are cooled by air too. The engine >> heats a coolant (despite the name, usually not water these days) which >> then heats the air. > > Not water??? I'm not aware of any water-cooled engines which use > anything other than water. Well, OK, it's really a solution of ethylene > or propylene glycol in water, but the water is what does most of the > heat transfer. The glycol is just there to provide freezing point > depression and boiling point elevation. Would you consider it fair to say that, say, vinegar is "not water"? Depending on the type of vinegar, it is typically around 5-10% acetic acid, and the rest water. Spirit vinegar can be as much as 20% acetic acid, which still leaves 80% water. How about brandy, which is typically 35%-60% alcohol, with most of the rest being water? Or household bleach, which is typically a 3-6% solution of sodium hypochlorite? Or milk (85-90% water)? I think it is fair to describe those as "not water". You shouldn't try to put out a fire by pouring a bottle of brandy on it. Automotive cooling fluid in modern sealed radiators is typically a mixture of 50% anti-freeze and 50% water. Back in the day, car radiators were *literally* water-cooled in the sense that the radiator was filled with 100% water. You filled it from the tap with drinking water. In an emergency, say broken down in the desert, you could drink the stuff from the radiator to survive. If you tried that with many modern cars, you would die a horrible death. -- Steven D'Aprano http://import-that.dreamwidth.org/
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| From | Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-06-12 14:11 +1200 |
| Message-ID | <bvsgjcF9n98U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #73193 |
Steven D'Aprano wrote: > Automotive cooling fluid in modern sealed radiators is typically a > mixture of 50% anti-freeze and 50% water. Sometimes it's even more than 50%, at which point you really have an antifreeze-cooled engine. :-) -- Greg
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-06-11 23:06 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.11029.1402548496.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #73195 |
On Wednesday 11 June 2014 22:11:53 Gregory Ewing did opine And Gene did reply: > Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > Automotive cooling fluid in modern sealed radiators is typically a > > mixture of 50% anti-freeze and 50% water. > > Sometimes it's even more than 50%, at which point > you really have an antifreeze-cooled engine. :-) There have been cases where that 50% may have been exceeded actually driving on the streets. At least 3 decades back, not too long before caddy came out with the northstar engine, which was rigged to get you home at a reasonable speed even if the radiator had been holed & the coolant lost. They used a wee bit of the knowledge gained from keeping Smokey Yunick is experimenting cash. He had an old VW Rabbit that was both a parts car, and the test bed. Two cylinder motor, I suspect built on a Harley 78cid crankcase, no radiator, no air cooling. Ceramic cylinders and pistons, it ran at a quite high internal temperature because the cylinders were insulated from losing heat by fiberglass blankets. It displaced 78 cid, made about 150 HP, and got well over 120 mpg running around in Daytona Beach. The one magazine article said it hadn't lost a stoplight grand prix ever but Smokey stopped that by making whoever was driving it, 100% responsible for any tickets it collected. It would have been gawdawful expensive to put it into production since those 2 cylinders & pistons cost more than the complete V8 Northstar engine. I thought it was one radically cool idea at the time. And I am amazed that something like it has not invaded the automotive world what with all the emphasis on both high mileage & decent horsepower caused by the high petro prices. Today I'd imagine a new cat converter might need to be built because at those temps and compression ratio's, I can see a hugely illegal amount of the various nitrogen oxides the EPA wouldn't tolerate. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene> US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS
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| From | Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-06-13 08:55 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <roy-7F4876.08554713062014@news.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #73193 |
In article <5399019e$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>, Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote: > On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 08:48:36 -0400, Roy Smith wrote: > > > In article <53984cd2$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>, > > Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote: > > > >> Yes, technically water-cooled engines are cooled by air too. The engine > >> heats a coolant (despite the name, usually not water these days) which > >> then heats the air. > > > > Not water??? I'm not aware of any water-cooled engines which use > > anything other than water. Well, OK, it's really a solution of ethylene > > or propylene glycol in water, but the water is what does most of the > > heat transfer. The glycol is just there to provide freezing point > > depression and boiling point elevation. > > Would you consider it fair to say that, say, vinegar is "not water"? > Depending on the type of vinegar, it is typically around 5-10% acetic > acid, and the rest water. Spirit vinegar can be as much as 20% acetic > acid, which still leaves 80% water. In a car, the water is the important part (even if it's only a 50% component). The primary job of the circulating coolant is to absorb heat in one place and transport it to another place. That requires a liquid with a high heat capacity, which is the water. The other stuff is just there to help the water do its job (i.e. not freeze in the winter, or boil over in the summer, and some anti-corrosive action thrown into the mix). When you said, "usually not water these days", that's a misleading statement. Certainly, it's "not pure water", or even "just water". But "not water" is a bit of a stretch. With vinegar, the acetic acid is the important component. The water is just there to dilute it to a useful working concentration and act as a carrier. People are 90% water too, but I wouldn't call a person "water". I would, however, as a first-order description, call the stuff circulating through the cooling system in my car, "water". > Back in the day, car radiators were *literally* water-cooled in the sense > that the radiator was filled with 100% water. You filled it from the tap > with drinking water. In an emergency, say broken down in the desert, you > could drink the stuff from the radiator to survive. If you tried that > with many modern cars, you would die a horrible death. But, I could do that right now, with my car (well, not the drinking part) . In an emergency, I could fill my cooling system with pure water, and it would work well enough to get me someplace not too far away where I could get repairs done.
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| From | Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-06-09 21:51 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.10938.1402365095.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #72996 |
On 09 Jun 2014 01:44:24 GMT, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> declaimed the following:
>(No currently designed car with an internal combustion engine uses air-
>cooling. The last mass market car that used it, the Citroën GS, ceased
>production in 1986. The Porsche 911 ceased production in 1998, making it,
Sorry, but the VW Bug was still being produced in some countries up to
2003 (VW shut down the last production line June 2003 in Mexico). The 911
is still in production -- though the air-cooled engine was discontinued in
1998.
--
Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN
wlfraed@ix.netcom.com HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
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| From | Carlos Anselmo Dias <carlos@premium-sponsor.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-06-08 18:56 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.10900.1402258730.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #72968 |
On 06/08/2014 06:14 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Sunday 08 June 2014 12:09:41 Roy Smith did opine > And Gene did reply: >> In article <mailman.10878.1402242019.18130.python-list@python.org>, >> >> Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote: >>> You may want to reconsider that statement after the first fan failure >>> in your mini. We've had quite a few Mac's in the tv station, as >>> video servers, graphics composers, etc. The airflow for cooling in >>> them is controlled by baffles to get the maximum air flow past the >>> hot spots, but a fan failure usually cooks the whole thing. And at >>> that time, Macs warranty did not cover collateral damage from a fan >>> failure. Cooked cpu? Too bad, so sad. >> The CPU (or maybe I'm thinking of the video card?) in the Dell has some >> huge heat sink, a bunch of funky ductwork, and a dedicated fan. I >> suspect if that fan were to fail, the chip it's cooling would fry >> itself pretty quickly too. > Probably. I have lost several nvidia video cards over the years from fan > failures. My phenom in this box has a 75C shutdown that has not been > tested. Best fan & sink assembly I could buy at the time. And I have > gotten into the habit of replacing the 45 cent fans on the video card with > bigger, ball bearing fans at the first hint of a squall. A lot of this > stuff has more engineering time in assuring it will die 2 weeks out of > warranty, than in giving top performance. And that goes double for stuff > wearing an Antec label. I'm on the 4th psu in this box, its a $12.65 in > 10 packs 350 watter, Chinese of course, running 4 terrabyte drives and a > USB tree that looks like a weeping willow plus the original 2.1Mhz Phenom. > 165 watts IIRC. I run gkrellm and watch its voltages. Now about 3 years > old, the 5 volt line is still 5.08 volts. Whats not to like? The 2 > Antecs I was dumb enough to try, had 5 volt lines down to 4.75 volts and > doing random resets at the end of the 1 year warranty. Thats not an > excusable failure in my book. > > Cheers, Gene Heskett Reading this reminds me the hypothetical dilemma of (...) If one solution based in n dependencies(client apis) would need to optimize it's system(in dependencies too) to face the massive hits of search engines in the indexation of n millions of pages with tracking integrated at several levels(...) ... how would it be solved? ... It would turn at n volts(...) and it would need to decrease the voltage(...) This is somehow integrated in what I wrote in the post with the subject 'python team(...)' To put this working and optimized is really fascinating (...) Regards, Carlos
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| From | Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-06-08 23:34 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.10902.1402270464.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #72968 |
Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Kurdt: I wouldn't disturb the fan controller. >>> Kurdt: Ever seen an AMD without a fan? ;) >>> Leshrak: heh, yeah >>> Leshrak: actually. it's not a pretty smell >>> Kurdt: Especially when it's overclocked. It goes FZZZZT in under two seconds. >>> >>> I think that's about right. >> >> One would think that in 2014, a device called a "thermostat" would shut >> down the power before expensive equipent goes up in a ball of smoke. > > That exchange actually happened back in 2005 (wow! ages ago now), but > same difference. However, I think there are very few thermostats that > can cut the power quickly enough for an overclocked chip that loses > its heat sink. MAYBE if the heat sink is still on and the fan isn't, > but not if the hs falls off. "Under two seconds" might become "the > blink of an eye". If the heat sinks falls off, yes, that is really bad news... But if the fan fails the warm up shouldn't be that rapid. I thought we were taking about fan failure, not detached heat sink. Sturla
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| From | Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-06-08 19:32 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <6c7110eb-b41d-4a30-bc7d-359911d31438@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #72995 |
On Monday, June 9, 2014 5:04:05 AM UTC+5:30, Sturla Molden wrote: > Chris Angelico wrote: > >>> Kurdt: I wouldn't disturb the fan controller. > >>> Kurdt: Ever seen an AMD without a fan? ;) > >>> Leshrak: heh, yeah > >>> Leshrak: actually. it's not a pretty smell > >>> Kurdt: Especially when it's overclocked. It goes FZZZZT in under two seconds. > >>> I think that's about right. > >> One would think that in 2014, a device called a "thermostat" would shut > >> down the power before expensive equipent goes up in a ball of smoke. > > That exchange actually happened back in 2005 (wow! ages ago now), but > > same difference. However, I think there are very few thermostats that > > can cut the power quickly enough for an overclocked chip that loses > > its heat sink. MAYBE if the heat sink is still on and the fan isn't, > > but not if the hs falls off. "Under two seconds" might become "the > > blink of an eye". > If the heat sinks falls off, yes, that is really bad news... But if the fan > fails the warm up shouldn't be that rapid. I thought we were taking about > fan failure, not detached heat sink. Dont know about 'fall off' However one day I tried to 'clean' my 'dirty' computer - which included removing the CPU fan, dusting it and fitting it back - didnt know about thermal paste Machine shut down in a minute (if I remember right) with a message about overheating When the (new!) thermal paste was applied it started again I vaguely remember that the bios remembered the untoward event and some resetting was required though dont remember what
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| From | Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-06-08 13:09 +1200 |
| Message-ID | <bvhre0F2gq5U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #72919 |
Michael Torrie wrote: > Technically C doesn't either, except via subroutines in libc, though C > does have pointers which would be used to access memory. The Pascal that Apple used had a way of casting an int to a pointer, so you could do all the tricks you can do with pointers in C. -- Greg
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