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Groups > comp.lang.python > #4044 > unrolled thread

Development tools and practices for Pythonistas

Started bysnorble <snorble@hotmail.com>
First post2011-04-26 07:39 -0700
Last post2011-05-10 22:53 +0000
Articles 3 on this page of 83 — 31 participants

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  Development tools and practices for Pythonistas snorble <snorble@hotmail.com> - 2011-04-26 07:39 -0700
    Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-04-26 09:00 -0700
    Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas "Martin P. Hellwig" <martin.hellwig@gmail.com> - 2011-04-26 17:02 +0000
    Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Thomas Rachel <nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915@spamschutz.glglgl.de> - 2011-04-26 19:59 +0200
      Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Algis Kabaila <akabaila@pcug.org.au> - 2011-04-27 04:42 +1000
        Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Thomas Rachel <nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915@spamschutz.glglgl.de> - 2011-04-27 00:32 +0200
      Re: [OT] Comparing VCS tools (was ""Development tools and practices for Pythonistas") Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2011-04-26 20:44 -0500
        Re: [OT] Comparing VCS tools Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-04-27 12:45 +1000
          Re: [OT] Comparing VCS tools Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-04-27 16:51 +1000
          Re: [OT] Comparing VCS tools Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2011-04-27 14:13 -0500
        Re: Comparing VCS tools (was ""Development tools and practices for Pythonistas") rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-04-26 19:50 -0700
          Re: Comparing VCS tools (was ""Development tools and practices for Pythonistas") alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2011-04-26 22:37 -0700
        Re: [OT] Comparing VCS tools (was ""Development tools and practices  for Pythonistas") Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> - 2011-04-29 09:26 -0400
          Re: [OT] Comparing VCS tools (was ""Development tools and practices for Pythonistas") Daniel Kluev <dan.kluev@gmail.com> - 2011-04-30 05:08 +1100
    Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel@sequans.com> - 2011-04-26 20:04 +0200
    Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas CM <cmpython@gmail.com> - 2011-04-26 11:29 -0700
      Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas CM <cmpython@gmail.com> - 2011-04-26 11:31 -0700
        Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Algis Kabaila <akabaila@pcug.org.au> - 2011-04-27 04:50 +1000
    Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-04-27 06:14 +1000
      Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-04-27 09:41 +1000
        Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Algis Kabaila <akabaila@pcug.org.au> - 2011-04-27 10:44 +1000
        Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel@sequans.com> - 2011-04-27 11:24 +0200
          Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2011-04-27 15:13 +0300
            Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel@sequans.com> - 2011-04-27 14:24 +0200
              Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-04-30 08:37 +0100
                Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Martin Schöön <martin.schoon@gmail.com> - 2011-04-30 09:15 +0000
                  Re: [OT] VCS for non-text (was Development tools and practices for Pythonistas) Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2011-04-30 09:18 -0500
                    Re: [OT] VCS for non-text (was Development tools and practices for Pythonistas) Martin Schöön <martin.schoon@gmail.com> - 2011-05-01 19:53 +0000
              Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-04-29 19:35 +0100
                Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-04-30 09:17 +1000
                  Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas CM <cmpython@gmail.com> - 2011-04-29 20:21 -0700
                    Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2011-04-29 23:54 -0400
                      Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-05-01 10:36 +1000
                        Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Shawn Milochik <shawn@milochik.com> - 2011-04-30 20:47 -0400
                          Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Dietmar Schwertberger <news@schwertberger.de> - 2011-05-01 18:11 +0200
                            Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Jason Earl <jearl@notengoamigos.org> - 2011-05-01 14:51 -0600
                            Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-05-02 07:49 +1000
                              Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2011-05-01 19:37 -0700
                            Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas David Boddie <david@boddie.org.uk> - 2011-05-02 01:33 +0200
                              Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Dietmar Schwertberger <news@schwertberger.de> - 2011-05-02 19:40 +0200
                    Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Shawn Milochik <shawn@milochik.com> - 2011-04-29 23:49 -0400
                    Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-05-01 20:06 -0700
                      Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-05-02 13:22 +1000
                        Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-05-01 20:45 -0700
                        Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Algis Kabaila <akabaila@pcug.org.au> - 2011-05-02 17:08 +1000
                          Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-05-02 00:19 -0700
                            Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Algis Kabaila <akabaila@pcug.org.au> - 2011-05-02 17:48 +1000
                              Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas jacek2v <jacek2v@gmail.com> - 2011-05-02 02:09 -0700
                                Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Algis Kabaila <akabaila@pcug.org.au> - 2011-05-02 20:38 +1000
                                  Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas jacek2v <jacek2v@gmail.com> - 2011-05-03 11:31 -0700
                      Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2011-05-03 21:19 +0300
                        Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-05-03 11:50 -0700
                          Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2011-05-04 21:06 +0300
          Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-04-27 22:14 +1000
        Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-04-27 19:33 +1000
        Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel@sequans.com> - 2011-04-27 13:17 +0200
          Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Thomas Rachel <nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915@spamschutz.glglgl.de> - 2011-04-27 20:08 +0200
            Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-04-28 09:44 +1000
        Re: [OT] VCS tools (was "Development tools and practices for Pythonistas") Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2011-04-27 14:07 -0500
          Re: [OT] VCS tools (was "Development tools and practices for Pythonistas") Martin Schöön <martin.schoon@gmail.com> - 2011-04-28 20:48 +0000
            Re: [OT] VCS tools Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-04-29 07:50 +1000
              Re: [OT] VCS tools Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2011-04-28 18:09 -0500
              Re: [OT] VCS tools Daniel Kluev <dan.kluev@gmail.com> - 2011-04-29 11:37 +1100
              Re: [OT] From svn to something else? (was: VCS tools) Hans Georg Schaathun <georg@schaathun.net> - 2011-04-29 11:07 +0100
                Re: [OT] From svn to something else? Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2011-04-29 06:50 -0500
                  Re: [OT] From svn to something else? Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-04-29 18:01 +0100
                    Re: [OT] From svn to something else? Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2011-04-29 13:23 -0500
                Re: [OT] From svn to something else? Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-04-29 22:53 +1000
                  Re: [OT] From svn to something else? "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> - 2011-04-29 09:26 -0400
              Re: [OT] VCS tools Martin Schöön <martin.schoon@gmail.com> - 2011-04-29 18:46 +0000
    Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Dan Stromberg <drsalists@gmail.com> - 2011-04-26 14:00 -0700
    recommended Emacs mode (was Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas) Gour-Gadadhara Dasa <gour@atmarama.net> - 2011-04-27 08:39 +0200
      Re: recommended Emacs mode (was Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas) rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-04-27 00:51 -0700
        Re: recommended Emacs mode Gour-Gadadhara Dasa <gour@atmarama.net> - 2011-04-27 10:10 +0200
    Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Jonathan Hartley <tartley@tartley.com> - 2011-05-06 02:51 -0700
      Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Tim Golden <mail@timgolden.me.uk> - 2011-05-06 10:59 +0100
        Python packaging (was Development tools and practices for Pythonistas) rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-05-06 04:55 -0700
    Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-05-08 00:43 -0700
    Re: Development tools and practices for Pythonistas Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2011-05-08 09:31 -0400
      Non Programming in python rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-05-10 09:41 -0700
        Re: Non Programming in python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-05-10 15:28 -0400
          Re: Non Programming in python rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-05-10 20:36 -0700
        Re: Non Programming in python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-10 22:53 +0000

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#5084 — Re: Non Programming in python

FromTerry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu>
Date2011-05-10 15:28 -0400
SubjectRe: Non Programming in python
Message-ID<mailman.1387.1305055728.9059.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#5077
On 5/10/2011 12:41 PM, rusi wrote:
> Sorry for a silly subject change: A better one will be welcome -- cant
> think of a name myself.

Associated tools. I might separate them into development tools (up to 
the production of python.exe) and usage tools (everything thereafter). 
On Windows, this is a pretty clean separation. On Linux, less so since 
users sometimes build their own binaries and therefore use some of the 
development tools.

Assuming that there is not one already, this could be the beginning of a 
useful overview wiki page with links to existing pages on the specific 
topics ('areas') listed below.

> There is this whole area of python that may be called the non-
> programming side of programming:
>
> Is there some central site where all such is put up?
> What if any should such a bundle of things be called?
>
> -------------------------------------------------
>
>    | Area             | Tool(s)                |
>    |------------------+------------------------|
>    | packaging        | distutils, setuptools, |
>    |                  | distutils2, distribute |
>    |                  | Native tools (eg apt)  |
>    | versioning       | hg, git, bzr           |
>    | multiple pythons | virtualenv             |
>    | ??               | tox                    |
>    | testing          | unittest, nose, pytest |
>    | build            | scons, make...         |
>    | deployment       | fabric                 |
>
> ------------------------------

I would reorder this list in the typical order used, starting with editors.

> * Primary Development tools/aids
>
>    1. Help
>    2. Completion ('intellisense')
>    3. Tags (Jumping)
>    4. Refactoring
>    5. Integration with 'non-programming' above (eg VCSes, packagers
> etc)
>
> * Other Development Tools
>    - Debugger
>    - Profiler
>    - Heap Profiler
>    - Coverage


-- 
Terry Jan Reedy

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#5090 — Re: Non Programming in python

Fromrusi <rustompmody@gmail.com>
Date2011-05-10 20:36 -0700
SubjectRe: Non Programming in python
Message-ID<56535cf9-1b78-4150-9013-24c891753bc8@h12g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#5084
On May 11, 12:28 am, Terry Reedy <tjre...@udel.edu> wrote:
> On 5/10/2011 12:41 PM, rusi wrote:
>
> > Sorry for a silly subject change: A better one will be welcome -- cant
> > think of a name myself.
>
> Associated tools. I might separate them into development tools (up to
> the production of python.exe) and usage tools (everything thereafter).
> On Windows, this is a pretty clean separation. On Linux, less so since
> users sometimes build their own binaries and therefore use some of the
> development tools.

Can you elaborate? I dont understand

>
> Assuming that there is not one already, this could be the beginning of a
> useful overview wiki page with links to existing pages on the specific
> topics ('areas') listed below.
>
>
>
> > There is this whole area of python that may be called the non-
> > programming side of programming:
>
> > Is there some central site where all such is put up?
> > What if any should such a bundle of things be called?
>
> > -------------------------------------------------
>
> >    | Area             | Tool(s)                |
> >    |------------------+------------------------|
> >    | packaging        | distutils, setuptools, |
> >    |                  | distutils2, distribute |
> >    |                  | Native tools (eg apt)  |
> >    | versioning       | hg, git, bzr           |
> >    | multiple pythons | virtualenv             |
> >    | ??               | tox                    |
> >    | testing          | unittest, nose, pytest |
> >    | build            | scons, make...         |
> >    | deployment       | fabric                 |
>
> > ------------------------------
>
> I would reorder this list in the typical order used, starting with editors.
>
> > * Primary Development tools/aids
>
> >    1. Help
> >    2. Completion ('intellisense')
> >    3. Tags (Jumping)
> >    4. Refactoring
> >    5. Integration with 'non-programming' above (eg VCSes, packagers
> > etc)
>
> > * Other Development Tools
> >    - Debugger
> >    - Profiler
> >    - Heap Profiler
> >    - Coverage


Some more 'areas':
1. Which python 'form' does one use?
At the least python vs pythonw on windows.

But more generally scripting vs REPL. In REPL python vs ipython
Note 1. I am often unnerved by how even experienced python programmers
think that the only way to 'do' python is like C -- write a main, not
appreciating the luxury of an unstructured, exploratory mode that an
REPL makes possible.
Note 2. ruby makes this distinction more obvious by distinguishing the
scripting engine -- ruby -- form the interactive interpreter (REPL) --
irb.

2. Literate Programming: When the primary purpose of the program is
not the program but (some form of) discussion around it

3. Program namespace lookup and structuring: sys.path is the interior
program view but there is also the 'exterior' view -- PYTHONPATH, .pth
files etc.

Finally some thoughts on how to name this list of areas:
a. Software Engineering? : Inasmuch as real program development is
programming + 'something-else' and SE is that 'something else'
b. Python Development Environment? Similar to above

[Cannot say I like these names too much but at least its more specific
than Steven's vanilla 'documentation' :-) ]

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#5086 — Re: Non Programming in python

FromSteven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info>
Date2011-05-10 22:53 +0000
SubjectRe: Non Programming in python
Message-ID<4dc9c202$0$29991$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to#5077
On Tue, 10 May 2011 09:41:19 -0700, rusi wrote:

> Sorry for a silly subject change: A better one will be welcome -- cant
> think of a name myself.
> 
> There is this whole area of python that may be called the non-
> programming side of programming:
> 
> Is there some central site where all such is put up? What if any should
> such a bundle of things be called?

Documentation.

Check the Python wiki.




-- 
Steven

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