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Re: Python Worst Practices

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  Re: Python Worst Practices Michiel Overtoom <motoom@xs4all.nl> - 2015-02-25 21:58 +0100
    Re: Python Worst Practices BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-02-28 10:28 +0000
      Re: Python Worst Practices Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-02-28 12:56 +0200
        Re: Python Worst Practices wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-02-28 06:26 -0800
        Re: Python Worst Practices Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-02-28 15:43 +0000
        Re: Python Worst Practices Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-01 19:11 +1100
          Re: Python Worst Practices wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-03-01 01:07 -0800
          Re: Python Worst Practices Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-01 18:16 +0200
            Re: Python Worst Practices Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-02 03:32 +1100
              Re: Python Worst Practices Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-01 18:58 +0200
                Re: Python Worst Practices Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-03-01 10:42 -0700
                  Re: Python Worst Practices Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-01 21:21 +0200
                  OT Accents [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-02 09:43 +1100
            Re: Python Worst Practices Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-01 16:38 +0000
              Re: Python Worst Practices Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-01 19:01 +0200
                Re: Python Worst Practices Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-01 17:34 +0000
                  Re: Python Worst Practices Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-01 19:52 +0200
                    Re: Python Worst Practices Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-01 18:16 +0000
                    Re: Python Worst Practices Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-03-01 19:32 +0100
                      Re: Python Worst Practices wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-03-01 11:23 -0800
                        Re: Python Worst Practices Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-03-01 20:59 +0100
                      Re: Python Worst Practices Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2015-03-02 10:40 +1300
                        Re: Python Worst Practices Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2015-03-01 16:47 -0500
                          Re: Python Worst Practices Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-01 22:10 +0000
                          An injury when I was a sbhoolboy; I was bitten by a bat. (was: Python Worst Practices) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2015-03-02 11:03 +1100
                          Re: An injury when I was a sbhoolboy; I was bitten by a bat. Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2015-03-02 11:07 +1100
                    Re: Python Worst Practices Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-02 20:02 +0000
                Re: Python Worst Practices Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-03-01 20:14 -0800
                  Re: Python Worst Practices Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-02 06:40 +0200
                  Re: Python Worst Practices alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-02 08:59 +0000
                    Re: Python Worst Practices Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-02 14:19 +0200
                      (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-03 01:39 +1100
                        Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-02 17:30 +0200
                          Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-03-03 03:51 +0100
                            Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-03-02 19:51 -0800
                              Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2015-03-03 15:10 +1100
                              Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-03-03 05:32 +0100
                                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-03-03 03:00 -0800
                                  Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-03 11:40 +0000
                                    Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] llanitedave <llanitedave@birdandflower.com> - 2015-03-03 21:43 -0800
                                      Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-04 15:16 +0200
                                        Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-03-04 14:41 +0100
                                          Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-04 18:55 +0200
                                        Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-03-04 06:45 -0800
                                        Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-05 06:14 +1100
                                          Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2015-03-04 11:28 -0800
                                          Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-04 21:33 +0200
                                            Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-05 07:11 +1100
                                              Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2015-03-05 07:40 +1100
                                              Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Emile van Sebille <emile@fenx.com> - 2015-03-04 14:39 -0800
                                              Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2015-03-05 10:36 +1100
                                              Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-03-05 20:39 -0500
                                            Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-04 20:10 +0000
                                            Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-03-04 19:38 -0800
                                              Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-05 07:19 +0200
                                                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-03-05 10:16 +0100
                                                  Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-05 15:39 +0200
                                                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-03-06 00:00 -0800
                                                  Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-06 08:31 +0000
                                                    Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-06 12:06 +0200
                                                    Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-06 12:34 +0000
                                                  Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-06 12:03 +0200
                                                    Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] llanitedave <llanitedave@birdandflower.com> - 2015-03-06 08:23 -0800
                                                      Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-06 20:15 +0200
                                                        Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2015-03-06 20:26 +0100
                                                  Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2015-03-06 14:34 +0200
                                              Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-05 20:28 +0000
                                            Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2015-03-05 21:45 +0200
                                              Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-05 22:10 +0200
                        Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-03 02:45 +1100
                          Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python   Worst Practices] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2015-03-03 18:40 +1300
                            Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-03 17:56 +1100
                              Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-03 09:05 +0200
                                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-03 18:14 +1100
                                  Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-03 18:38 +1100
                                    Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-03-03 00:12 -0800
                                  Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python   Worst Practices] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2015-03-03 23:35 +1300
                          Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-03-02 23:35 -0800
                        Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2015-03-02 10:54 -0500
                        Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2015-03-03 11:45 +1300
                        Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2015-03-03 00:23 +0000
                          Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-03 12:00 +1100
                            Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2015-03-03 19:06 +1300
                          Re: (Still OT) Nationalism,   language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2015-03-03 19:06 +1300
                        Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-03 01:44 +0000
                        Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2015-03-03 02:09 +0000
                          Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-03 16:18 +1100
                        Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2015-03-03 09:17 +0000
                        Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2015-03-03 15:40 +0100
                      Re: Python Worst Practices alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-02 15:32 +0000
                        Re: Python Worst Practices Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-02 15:45 +0000
                    Re: Python Worst Practices Manolo Martínez <manolo@austrohungaro.com> - 2015-03-02 13:00 +0100
                Uncanny valley of languages Jonas Wielicki <jonas@wielicki.name> - 2015-03-02 11:54 +0100
                  Re: Uncanny valley of languages Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-03-02 18:33 -0800
            Re: Python Worst Practices Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-02 03:42 +1100
            Re: Python Worst Practices Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-01 16:52 +0000
            Re: Python Worst Practices alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-01 20:16 +0000
              Re: Python Worst Practices Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-02 07:26 +1100
                Re: Python Worst Practices alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-01 21:07 +0000
              Re: Python Worst Practices Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-01 22:45 +0200
                Re: Python Worst Practices Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-03-01 22:01 +0100
              Re: Python Worst Practices Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-03-01 20:53 -0500
                (Still OT) It's not the size of the vocabulary that matters, but what you do with it [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-02 13:35 +1100
                  Re: (Still OT) It's not the size of the vocabulary that matters, but what you do with it [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-01 19:18 -0800
                    Re: (Still OT) It's not the size of the vocabulary that matters, but what you do with it [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-02 14:42 +1100
                Re: Python Worst Practices Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2015-03-02 17:12 +0000
                  Re: Python Worst Practices sohcahtoa82@gmail.com - 2015-03-02 11:06 -0800
                    Re: Python Worst Practices Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2015-03-02 22:21 +0000
                  Re: Python Worst Practices Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-03-02 23:04 -0500
                    Re: Python Worst Practices Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-03 06:32 +0200
                    Re: Python Worst Practices Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2015-03-03 11:15 +0000
                  Re: Python Worst Practices Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-03 15:49 +1100
                    Re: Python Worst Practices Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2015-03-03 11:31 +0000
                  Re: Python Worst Practices Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-03 07:20 +0000
              Re: Python Worst Practices Travis Griggs <travisgriggs@gmail.com> - 2015-03-02 08:25 -0800
                Re: Python Worst Practices alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-02 17:02 +0000
            Re: Python Worst Practices BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-01 22:14 +0000
            Re: Python Worst Practices Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-02 06:45 +1100

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#86680

On Sun, 01 Mar 2015 22:45:12 +0200, Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net>
wrote:
>
>Fact remains I can easily understand what Chinese, Mexican, Italian,
>Russian or Malay colleagues say in English. For some reason, Australian
>and Indian speakers don't give me trouble, either. The Irish accent is
>borderline, but the British, sad to say, are hopeless.
>

You should listen to African English speakers...

This is probably common among many languages. Not that I have a common
understanding of the phenomena, but I can easily draw a parallel to
Portuguese. The European Portuguese is harder to understand to folks
learning the language than the non Portuguese dialects in Brazil,
African countries and even Macau in Asia.

This is also an issue among speakers of the language. European
Portuguese don't have any trouble understanding dialect speakers in
Angola, Brazil, Cape Verde, etc. But the those dialect speakers have
an hard time understanding the European Portuguese.

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#86692

On Sun, 1 Mar 2015 20:16:26 +0000 (UTC), alister
<alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> declaimed the following:

>
>The language is called English, the clue is in the name. interestingly 
>most 'Brits' can switch between American English & English without too 
>much trouble (I still have a problem with Chips) 
>
	Okay... Is that a reference to (US) Fries, or US usage reference to
(UK) Crisps.

	Might as well add the confusion of biscuit <> cookie (my biscuits look
like your scones)... And lets not bring up the subject of suspenders...
Bonnets, boots, and lifts.

	A pub's a bar; a bar's a gate; a gate's a street

>
>Last time I was is the USA I had a local ask me which state London was 
>in! (heck I know they only bother with their own history but I though we 
>played quite an important role in that)
>
	Well... when we've got states bigger than some countries...

	But yeah... I doubt if half the US population even understands what the
"Federal" means in our government.

{I'll take "Oxbridge" over "Bostonian" accent any day... But don't ask me
to make sense of East Ender -- or "valley girl"... Had enough trouble once
in Tennessee with the difference between "Ketchup" and "Catsup"}
-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
    wlfraed@ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

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#86694 — (Still OT) It's not the size of the vocabulary that matters, but what you do with it [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> Well... when we've got states bigger than some countries...

A Texan farmer goes to Australia on vacation. There he meets an Aussie 
farmer and gets to talking. They walk around the farm a little, and the 
Aussie shows off his herd of cattle. The Texan immediately replies, “Our 
Texan longhorns are at least twice as large as your cows.”

The Aussie shows off his big wheat field and the Texan says, “In Texas, our 
wheat fields are ten times as big as that!”

Just then a herd of kangaroos hop through the field. The Texan does a 
double-take and says "What in San Quentin are those?”

The Aussie replies “Don’t you have any grasshoppers in Texas?” 

The Texan recovers quickly and says “Of course we do, I’ve just never seen 
them that color before. You’ve got a nice farm, but it’s a bit small. Back 
home, when I drive around the ranch checking the fences, I get in my SUV at 
4 in the morning, and don’t get back home until 11 the next night.”

The Aussie replies “Ah yes, I had a car like that once. American-made, is 
it?”



-- 
Steve

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#86695 — Re: (Still OT) It's not the size of the vocabulary that matters, but what you do with it [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> writes:
> The Aussie replies “Ah yes, I had a car like that once. American-made, is 
> it?”

Is it true that in Australia, the number of the beast is 999?

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#86696 — Re: (Still OT) It's not the size of the vocabulary that matters, but what you do with it [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 2:18 PM, Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> writes:
>> The Aussie replies “Ah yes, I had a car like that once. American-made, is
>> it?”
>
> Is it true that in Australia, the number of the beast is 999?

Wouldn't know. Out here, we're not afraid of the beast - why should we
be? We have spiders, and snakes, and kangaroos, and weather, and
desert, and ants, and spiders, and drop bears, and spiders, and
"jelly" (gelignite), and I nearly forgot to mention that we have
spiders. If you feel like disposing of an unwanted Beast, you could do
worse than deposit him somewhere in the Western Australian desert.
It's kinda like sending him to hell, only the postage is cheaper.

ChrisA

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#86764

On 2015-03-02, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> 	A pub's a bar; a bar's a gate; a gate's a street

If each of those is supposed to be English first and then the American
equivalent second, then I'm afraid the first one is misleading and the
other two are just nonsense.

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#86774

On Monday, March 2, 2015 at 9:13:21 AM UTC-8, Jon Ribbens wrote:
> On 2015-03-02, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > 	A pub's a bar; a bar's a gate; a gate's a street
> 
> If each of those is supposed to be English first and then the American
> equivalent second, then I'm afraid the first one is misleading and the
> other two are just nonsense.

American here.  To me, a pub and a bar are different, but similar.

A bar is where people go to get drinks.  They might serve food, but rarely does anybody actually order some.  A pub on the other hand, has a greater focus on food and is commonly visited to get food along with their beer.

Of course, I imagine plenty of fellow Americans would disagree with me.

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#86785

On 2015-03-02, sohcahtoa82@gmail.com <sohcahtoa82@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, March 2, 2015 at 9:13:21 AM UTC-8, Jon Ribbens wrote:
>> On 2015-03-02, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> > 	A pub's a bar; a bar's a gate; a gate's a street
>> 
>> If each of those is supposed to be English first and then the American
>> equivalent second, then I'm afraid the first one is misleading and the
>> other two are just nonsense.
>
> American here.  To me, a pub and a bar are different, but similar.
>
> A bar is where people go to get drinks.  They might serve food, but
> rarely does anybody actually order some.  A pub on the other hand,
> has a greater focus on food and is commonly visited to get food
> along with their beer.
>
> Of course, I imagine plenty of fellow Americans would disagree with me.

The distinction is nuanced and not well defined, but most British
people would think your definition above is certainly not entirely
wrong. They're definitely both places primarily for alcohol but
which may serve other purposes. If there's more wood and brass it's
probably a pub; if there's more glass and chrome and coloured lighting
it's probably a bar.

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#86807

On Mon, 2 Mar 2015 17:12:24 +0000 (UTC), Jon Ribbens
<jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> declaimed the following:

>On 2015-03-02, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> 	A pub's a bar; a bar's a gate; a gate's a street
>
>If each of those is supposed to be English first and then the American
>equivalent second, then I'm afraid the first one is misleading and the
>other two are just nonsense.

	Not based on some of what I found in York while on TDY... Where the
entries to the old town -- what an American might call a gate -- were all
named <something>bar, and the streets passing through those tended to have
names ending in gate. "Micklegate Bar Museum", for example, where
Micklegate passes through the city wall. Otherside of the old town has
Goodramgate turning into Monksgate as it passes through... Monk Bar.
Walmgate passes through Walmgate Bar


	The quote's not even mine -- I encountered it decades ago.
-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
    wlfraed@ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

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#86810

Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com>:

>>On 2015-03-02, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>> 	A pub's a bar; a bar's a gate; a gate's a street
>
> 	Not based on some of what I found in York while on TDY... Where the
> entries to the old town -- what an American might call a gate -- were all
> named <something>bar, and the streets passing through those tended to have
> names ending in gate. "Micklegate Bar Museum", for example, where
> Micklegate passes through the city wall. Otherside of the old town has
> Goodramgate turning into Monksgate as it passes through... Monk Bar.
> Walmgate passes through Walmgate Bar

That meaning ultimately comes from:

   3. (Northern England) A street; now used especially as a combining
      form to make the name of a street.

   <URL: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gate#Etymology_2>.

That's because the Danes once ruled the place: <URL:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danelaw>, <URL:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Heathen_Army>.


Marko

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#86838

On 2015-03-03, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Mar 2015 17:12:24 +0000 (UTC), Jon Ribbens
><jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> declaimed the following:
>>On 2015-03-02, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>> 	A pub's a bar; a bar's a gate; a gate's a street
>>
>>If each of those is supposed to be English first and then the American
>>equivalent second, then I'm afraid the first one is misleading and the
>>other two are just nonsense.
>
> 	Not based on some of what I found in York while on TDY... Where the
> entries to the old town -- what an American might call a gate -- were all
> named <something>bar, and the streets passing through those tended to have
> names ending in gate. "Micklegate Bar Museum", for example, where
> Micklegate passes through the city wall.

That's a proper noun. It's derived from *Old Norse*, which hasn't been
spoken by anyone since about the year 1,300. It has nothing at all to
do with English, let alone English as it is spoken by anyone alive
today.

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#86811

Jon Ribbens wrote:

> On 2015-03-02, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> A pub's a bar; a bar's a gate; a gate's a street
> 
> If each of those is supposed to be English first and then the American
> equivalent second, then I'm afraid the first one is misleading and the
> other two are just nonsense.

Unfortunately not nonsense.

A pub (short for public drinking house) is another name for a bar. Yes, they 
sometimes differ in their connotations ("pubs are decorated in wood, bars in 
chrome") but essentially they are the same thing.

A bar is also a rod of solid material, like a steel bar, and "a barrier or 
restriction to an action or advance".

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=definition%3Abar

and of course a gate is also a barrier or restriction. Indeed, we have 
"tollbar" and "tollgate" as synonyms:

tollbar, tollgate - a gate or bar across a toll bridge or toll road which is 
lifted when the toll is paid

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/gate

so a bar is a type of gate. And, sure enough, there is an old meaning of 
"gate" which means "a way, road, street, or path".


If you think that's bad, try pronouncing "ghoti" according to standard 
English rules:

"gh" sounds like "f", like in "enough" (enuf).
"o" sounds like "i", like in "women" (wimmin).
"ti" sounds like "sh", like in "station" (stashun).

So "ghoti" sounds like "fish".



-- 
Steven

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#86839

On 2015-03-03, Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
> Jon Ribbens wrote:
>> On 2015-03-02, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>> A pub's a bar; a bar's a gate; a gate's a street
>> 
>> If each of those is supposed to be English first and then the American
>> equivalent second, then I'm afraid the first one is misleading and the
>> other two are just nonsense.
>
> Unfortunately not nonsense.

Sorry, it is nonsense. Trust me, I've lived here all my life.

> A pub (short for public drinking house) is another name for a bar. Yes, they 
> sometimes differ in their connotations ("pubs are decorated in wood, bars in 
> chrome") but essentially they are the same thing.

No - as I said, it's highly misleading to pretend they are synonyms.

> A bar is also a rod of solid material, like a steel bar, and "a barrier or 
> restriction to an action or advance".

Yes. Your argument is similar to "a cat is a four-legged furry animal,
a dog is a four-legged furry animal, therefore cats are dogs". If you
saw a gate blocking (or even "barring") your path, no English person
would say "that bar is in the way".

> And, sure enough, there is an old meaning of "gate" which means "a
> way, road, street, or path".

Well, yes. Emphasis on "old". But it turns out that English as it was
used historically before the USA even existed is not the same as
English as it is used today in the UK, any more that it is the same as
English in the USA today.

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#86825

On 03/03/2015 04:04, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Mar 2015 17:12:24 +0000 (UTC), Jon Ribbens
> <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> declaimed the following:
>
>> On 2015-03-02, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>> 	A pub's a bar; a bar's a gate; a gate's a street
>>
>> If each of those is supposed to be English first and then the American
>> equivalent second, then I'm afraid the first one is misleading and the
>> other two are just nonsense.
>
> 	Not based on some of what I found in York while on TDY... Where the
> entries to the old town -- what an American might call a gate -- were all
> named <something>bar, and the streets passing through those tended to have
> names ending in gate. "Micklegate Bar Museum", for example, where
> Micklegate passes through the city wall. Otherside of the old town has
> Goodramgate turning into Monksgate as it passes through... Monk Bar.
> Walmgate passes through Walmgate Bar
>
>
> 	The quote's not even mine -- I encountered it decades ago.
>

Come to sunny Christchurch, Dorset and you encounter the street/district 
that is simply "Bargates".

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence

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#86759

> On Mar 1, 2015, at 5:53 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 1 Mar 2015 20:16:26 +0000 (UTC), alister
> <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> declaimed the following:
> 
>> 
>> The language is called English, the clue is in the name. interestingly 
>> most 'Brits' can switch between American English & English without too 
>> much trouble (I still have a problem with Chips) 
>> 
> 	Okay... Is that a reference to (US) Fries, or US usage reference to
> (UK) Crisps.
> 
> 	Might as well add the confusion of biscuit <> cookie (my biscuits look
> like your scones)... And lets not bring up the subject of suspenders...
> Bonnets, boots, and lifts.
> 
> 	A pub's a bar; a bar's a gate; a gate's a street

Reminds me of Richard Lederer’s writings. 

http://www.etni.org.il/farside/crazyenglish.htm

Whether or not Brits should sprinkle the letter ‘u’ around for some extra spice, seems like the very smallest of our worries.

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#86763

On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 08:25:40 -0800, Travis Griggs wrote:

> seems like the very smallest of our worries.

"There is no egg in eggplant"

What the blood heck is eggplant?

oh wait you mean aubergine

this page is clearly about American English. 
We are even more obtuse, it stops Johnnie Foreigner knowing what we are 
up to - seems to be far more effective than Enigma :-)

IIRC the Americans managed something similar with the Navaho.




-- 
Falling in love is a lot like dying.  You never get to do it enough to
become good at it.

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#86686

On 01/03/2015 16:16, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info>:
>
>> Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>>> Learn it like everybody else has to.
>>
>> Stockholm Syndrome :-)
>>
>> "I learned English, and so everyone else should too."
>
> No, the point is that if everybody else has taken the trouble of
> learning American English, it shouldn't be too much to ask for the
> British to make an effort as well.

Actually it is the Brits who are bilingual; we can watch British /or/ 
American TV shows and movies without needing subtitles. It's not always 
the case the other way around.

You have a point that American-English spellings have some domination 
internationally simply by sheer numbers (in the same way that C-style 
syntax has unfortunately permeated a great number of languages). But I 
think there are still a few places which have had a British influence 
which might still spell colour as "colour" (such as India with a 
population a mere 4 times as large as the USA).

But programming in the UK I'm going to spell variables that include the 
word "colour" with a "u". I'm sure that any Americans will be able to 
guess what it means, if they were ever to see my source codes. (BTW 
"color" gets underlined in red by my spell-checker, another reason to 
avoid it.)

While with any external interfaces that use "color", I often create an 
alias that uses "colour" (saves time later by not constantly misspelling 
it).

-- 
Bartc

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#86702

On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 3:52 AM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> It's not one that we use out here in the Antipodes... probably a
>> British peculiarity. Or perhaps an English peculiarity, but I would
>> guess more likely British.
>>
>> ChrisA
>>
>
> British.  Never call me English, my mum was Welsh and would come back from
> the grave to haunt you :)

Ah, I didn't know you were part Welsh. The name Lawrence is a good
English one, and Breamore is itself in England. But I shall strive to
remember :)

ChrisA

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