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JUST GOT HACKED

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  JUST GOT HACKED Νίκος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-10-01 12:58 +0300
    Re: JUST GOT HACKED Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-01 14:06 +0100
      Re: JUST GOT HACKED Νίκος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-10-01 16:15 +0300
        Re: JUST GOT HACKED Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2013-10-01 15:27 +0200
          Re: JUST GOT HACKED Νίκος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-10-01 16:42 +0300
            Fwd: JUST GOT HACKED Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2013-10-01 15:56 +0200
              Re: Fwd: JUST GOT HACKED Νίκος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-10-01 16:58 +0300
            Re: JUST GOT HACKED Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-10-01 13:57 +0000
              Re: JUST GOT HACKED Νίκος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-10-01 17:00 +0300
                Re: JUST GOT HACKED Daniel Stojanov <daniel.stjnv@gmail.com> - 2013-10-02 00:24 +1000
                  Re: JUST GOT HACKED Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-02 02:30 +0000
                    Re: JUST GOT HACKED Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-10-02 08:51 +0200
                    Re: JUST GOT HACKED Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-02 08:32 +0100
                  Re: JUST GOT HACKED Ravi Sahni <ganeshsahni07@gmail.com> - 2013-10-01 21:09 -0700
                  Re: JUST GOT HACKED rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-10-02 09:41 -0700
                Re: JUST GOT HACKED Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2013-10-01 09:56 -0500
                Re: JUST GOT HACKED Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-10-01 10:52 -0400
                  Re: JUST GOT HACKED Νίκος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-10-01 18:34 +0300
                    Re: JUST GOT HACKED alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-10-02 09:28 +1000
                Re: JUST GOT HACKED Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2013-10-02 06:45 +1000
                Re: JUST GOT HACKED Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-10-02 08:06 +1000
                  Re: JUST GOT HACKED Wayne Werner <waynejwerner@gmail.com> - 2013-10-04 06:23 -0700
                Re: JUST GOT HACKED Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-02 08:15 +1000
                Re: JUST GOT HACKED Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-01 23:28 +0100
                Improving community discussion (was: JUST GOT HACKED) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-10-02 08:41 +1000
                Re: JUST GOT HACKED Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-10-02 08:29 +0200
                Re: JUST GOT HACKED Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-10-02 16:49 +1000
                  Re: JUST GOT HACKED Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-02 07:29 +0000
                    Mutual respect, bullying, tolerance (was: JUST GOT HACKED) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-10-02 17:42 +1000
                    Re: JUST GOT HACKED Νίκος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-10-02 13:22 +0300
                      Re: JUST GOT HACKED Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-02 20:32 +1000
                        Re: JUST GOT HACKED Νίκος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-10-02 13:43 +0300
                          Re: JUST GOT HACKED Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-02 20:54 +1000
                            Re: JUST GOT HACKED Νίκος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-10-02 14:01 +0300
                            Re: JUST GOT HACKED Νίκος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-10-02 14:03 +0300
                              Re: JUST GOT HACKED Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-02 21:11 +1000
                              Re: JUST GOT HACKED Heiko Wundram <modelnine@modelnine.org> - 2013-10-02 13:35 +0200
                              Re: JUST GOT HACKED Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-02 13:06 +0000
                          Re: JUST GOT HACKED Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2013-10-02 08:09 -0500
                          Re: JUST GOT HACKED Wayne Werner <waynejwerner@gmail.com> - 2013-10-04 06:49 -0700
                      Re: JUST GOT HACKED Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-10-02 15:50 +0000
                Re: JUST GOT HACKED Ravi Sahni <ganeshsahni07@gmail.com> - 2013-10-02 12:32 +0530
                  Re: JUST GOT HACKED Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-02 09:08 +0000
                    Re: JUST GOT HACKED Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-10-02 13:28 +0200
                      Re: JUST GOT HACKED Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-02 13:17 +0000
                        Re: JUST GOT HACKED Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-10-02 16:05 +0000
                        Re: JUST GOT HACKED Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-10-03 09:01 +0200
                          Re: JUST GOT HACKED Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-03 11:30 +0000
                            Re: JUST GOT HACKED Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-10-04 15:48 +0200
                  Re: JUST GOT HACKED Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-10-02 13:34 +0000
                  Re: JUST GOT HACKED rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-10-02 09:44 -0700
                    Re: JUST GOT HACKED Ravi Sahni <ganeshsahni07@gmail.com> - 2013-10-02 23:51 +0530
                  Re: JUST GOT HACKED Piet van Oostrum <piet@vanoostrum.org> - 2013-10-04 17:23 -0400
                Re: JUST GOT HACKED Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-10-02 17:24 +1000
                Re: JUST GOT HACKED Ravi Sahni <ganeshsahni07@gmail.com> - 2013-10-02 13:07 +0530
                Re: JUST GOT HACKED Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-10-02 09:51 +0200
                Re: JUST GOT HACKED Ravi Sahni <ganeshsahni07@gmail.com> - 2013-10-02 18:47 +0530
                Goodbye: was JUST GOT HACKED Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> - 2013-10-02 21:13 +0000
                  Re: Goodbye: was JUST GOT HACKED Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-10-02 19:05 -0400
                  Re: Goodbye: was JUST GOT HACKED Ravi Sahni <ganeshsahni07@gmail.com> - 2013-10-03 09:21 +0530
                    Re: Goodbye: was JUST GOT HACKED Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-03 11:35 +0000
                      Re: Goodbye: was JUST GOT HACKED Ravi Sahni <ganeshsahni07@gmail.com> - 2013-10-03 17:31 +0530
                        Re: Goodbye: was JUST GOT HACKED Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-04 02:03 +0000
                  Re: Goodbye: was JUST GOT HACKED Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> - 2013-10-07 12:26 +0000
                    Re: Goodbye: was JUST GOT HACKED Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-07 23:34 +1100
                    Re: Goodbye: was JUST GOT HACKED Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2013-10-07 08:12 -0500
                    Re: Goodbye: was JUST GOT HACKED Ravi Sahni <ganeshsahni07@gmail.com> - 2013-10-07 18:40 +0530
            Re: JUST GOT HACKED Pat Johnson <p.johnson125@gmail.com> - 2013-10-08 07:51 -0700
        Re: JUST GOT HACKED Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-01 14:28 +0100
        Re: JUST GOT HACKED Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-01 19:42 +0100
    Re: JUST GOT HACKED Piet van Oostrum <piet@vanoostrum.org> - 2013-10-01 14:21 -0400
    Re: JUST GOT HACKED Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-10-01 22:05 +0000
    Re: JUST GOT HACKED Zero Piraeus <z@etiol.net> - 2013-10-01 20:02 -0300
      Re: JUST GOT HACKED Νίκος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-10-02 02:28 +0300
        Re: JUST GOT HACKED Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2013-10-02 09:48 +1000
        Re: JUST GOT HACKED Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2013-10-01 19:14 -0500
        Re: JUST GOT HACKED Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2013-10-02 14:47 +0200
        Re: JUST GOT HACKED ishish <ishish@domhain.de> - 2013-10-02 13:57 +0100
      Re: JUST GOT HACKED Νίκος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-10-02 13:52 +0300
        Re: JUST GOT HACKED feedthetroll@gmx.de - 2013-10-02 04:42 -0700
          Re: JUST GOT HACKED Νίκος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-10-02 14:55 +0300
          Re: JUST GOT HACKED Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-02 12:51 +0000
            Re: JUST GOT HACKED Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-10-02 15:12 +0200
              Re: JUST GOT HACKED Νίκος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-10-02 16:30 +0300
                Re: JUST GOT HACKED Rod Person <rodperson@rodperson.com> - 2013-10-02 10:31 -0400
            Re: JUST GOT HACKED Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-02 23:06 +1000
    Re: JUST GOT HACKED Pat Johnson <p.johnson125@gmail.com> - 2013-10-08 07:53 -0700

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#55242

Daniel Stojanov <daniel.stjnv@gmail.com> writes:

> 2) I just signed up the this mailing list.

Welcome! Feel free to engage and/or begin some Python-related threads
:-)

> To the regulars, is this what normally happens on this list?

This is an unmoderated forum, so we have occasional spates of persistent
nuisances, and those who respond with the maturity level and impulse
control of an average six-year-old.

We have guidelines on community conduct, but they are enforced through
social pressure and hence are not perfect.

> 3) I'm a bit late to the party. Is Nikos a real sysadmin or is this some
> horrible inside joke I don't get?

Nikos has turned out to be a particularly persistent nuisance here, but
is relatively easy to avoid once you realise that.

-- 
 \       “An idea isn't responsible for the people who believe in it.” |
  `\                                      —Donald Robert Perry Marquis |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney

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#55477

On Tuesday, October 1, 2013 5:06:38 PM UTC-5, Ben Finney wrote:
> This is an unmoderated forum, so we have occasional spates of persistent
> 
> nuisances, and those who respond with the maturity level and impulse
> 
> control of an average six-year-old.

Hey! That's so degrading! I don't know many six-year-olds (and certainly not mine, but maybe they're just not average) who would continue to respond in the same fashion that the OP of *this* thread did!

;-)
-W

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#55243

On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 12:24 AM, Daniel Stojanov <daniel.stjnv@gmail.com> wrote:
> 3) I'm a bit late to the party. Is Nikos a real sysadmin or is this some
> horrible inside joke I don't get?

He's a real sysadmin, in the sense that he has a system that he
administers - this isn't some elaborate prank that we collectively
pull on newcomers, no. His main problem is that he doesn't listen to
advice, even advice he specifically requests; so his server has, on
occasion, had major problems lasting a long time. What just happened
here, I think, is that he had a password accidentally visible, and
someone logged in as him. Tip: Learn from his mistakes, that'll save
you the pain of making them yourself :)

Fortunately, this sort of thing isn't all that common. Most of the
time we have much more in the category of "Python-related and real
good fun". Unless you absolutely detest Python and all that it stands
for, stick around - we're sure to have something more interesting than
this. :)

ChrisA

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#55244

On 01/10/2013 15:24, Daniel Stojanov wrote:
>
> 2) I just signed up the this mailing list. To the regulars, is this what
> normally happens on this list?
>

Nah, sadly part of it is due to me failing to keep Asperger Syndrome 
under control.  Marks out of 10, -5, must try harder :(

If you're into upping your game with Python please take a look here 
http://news.gmane.org/index.php?prefix=gmane.comp.python, there's a 
couple of mailing lists that could keep you occupied for a few minutes 
each day :)

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence

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#55245 — Improving community discussion (was: JUST GOT HACKED)

Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> writes:

> Nah, sadly part of it is due to me failing to keep Asperger Syndrome
> under control.  Marks out of 10, -5, must try harder :(

Thank you for acknowledging this. I sincerely wish you strength in
limiting antisocial behaviour. We need more people who can recognise and
overcome their own impulses to behave badly :-)

> If you're into upping your game with Python please take a look here
> http://news.gmane.org/index.php?prefix=gmane.comp.python, there's a
> couple of mailing lists that could keep you occupied for a few minutes
> each day :)

Also of benefit is to find – or, if it doesn't exist, to found – a local
Python User Group <URL:https://wiki.python.org/moin/LocalUserGroups>.

Meeting and discussing in person with like-minded fellows, on a regular
schedule, works very well for a tool like Python, in my experience.

-- 
 \                    “He who laughs last, thinks slowest.” —anonymous |
  `\                                                                   |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney

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#55274

Op 02-10-13 00:06, Ben Finney schreef:
> Daniel Stojanov <daniel.stjnv@gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> 2) I just signed up the this mailing list.
> 
> Welcome! Feel free to engage and/or begin some Python-related threads
> :-)
> 
>> To the regulars, is this what normally happens on this list?
> 
> This is an unmoderated forum, so we have occasional spates of persistent
> nuisances, and those who respond with the maturity level and impulse
> control of an average six-year-old.

I think this is an unfair characterisation. People venting their
frustration after the umpteenth thread started by Nikos in which
he rejects the answers given to him and him repeatedly coming
back with the same question, that is not the impulse control of
a six year old.

And what about the impuls control and the maturity of people who
can't stop answering Nikos, knowing they contribute to the nuisance
to the group?

> We have guidelines on community conduct, but they are enforced through
> social pressure and hence are not perfect.

That social pressure is enforced rather one-side. People can endlessly
contribute to the nuisance by keeping engaging with Nikos no matter
how many times his nuisance his exposed and you will here very few
complains. But then others start venting their frustration and suddenly
the social pressure is put on.

-- 
Antoon Pardon

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#55275

Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> writes:

> Op 02-10-13 00:06, Ben Finney schreef:
> > This is an unmoderated forum, so we have occasional spates of
> > persistent nuisances, and those who respond with the maturity level
> > and impulse control of an average six-year-old.
[…]
>
> And what about the impuls control and the maturity of people who can't
> stop answering [a nuisance], knowing they contribute to the nuisance
> to the group?

Yes, we are in firm agreement here.

-- 
 \     “It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to |
  `\    persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.” —Carl |
_o__)                                                            Sagan |
Ben Finney

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#55280

On Wed, 02 Oct 2013 16:49:22 +1000, Ben Finney wrote:

> Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> writes:
> 
>> Op 02-10-13 00:06, Ben Finney schreef:
>> > This is an unmoderated forum, so we have occasional spates of
>> > persistent nuisances, and those who respond with the maturity level
>> > and impulse control of an average six-year-old.
> […]
>>
>> And what about the impuls control and the maturity of people who can't
>> stop answering [a nuisance], knowing they contribute to the nuisance to
>> the group?
> 
> Yes, we are in firm agreement here.


Well that's a shame, and I think that your comment here is incompatible 
with your previous approval of the PSF Diversity Statement.

    The Python Software Foundation and the global Python community
    welcome and encourage participation by everyone. Our community is
    based on mutual respect, tolerance, and encouragement, and we are
    working to help each other live up to these principles. We want our
    community to be more diverse: whoever you are, and whatever your
    background, we welcome you.


This doesn't say anything about bullying, mocking and belittling those we 
don't like. It says, *encourage* participation by *everyone*, and that 
includes annoyances like Nikos. Like it or not, he is part of the 
community of Python users too.

I admit to serious reservations about the Diversity Statement and the 
Code of Conduct, but I think I am living up to their ideals. In my 
imperfect way, I am trying to encourage Nikos towards better behaviour by 
rewarding him for good behaviour (answer his sensible questions, 
encourage him to learn on his own) and discourage his bad behaviour. I 
don't mock him or belittle him, and I don't celebrate when he screws up.

And if I slip up and do any of these things, then I would deserve to be 
called out on it.

Ben, are you doing all you can to live up to the PSF ideals? Are you 
encouraging Nikos to be a good member of this community, or just standing 
idly by while others bully him?

I can tell you this: if the PSF Code of Conduct applied here, Nikos would 
be a *distant* third on my list of people to be banned. He might be needy 
and annoying, but he is not abusive and hostile except when defending 
himself from the abuse and hostility of others.

And I've called Nikos out on his retaliation too. He doesn't get a free 
pass from me.



-- 
Steven

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#55282 — Mutual respect, bullying, tolerance (was: JUST GOT HACKED)

Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> writes:

> Well that's a shame, and I think that your comment here is
> incompatible with your previous approval of the PSF Diversity
> Statement.

We should tolerate people, but we should not tolerate their bad
behaviour.

The Diversity Statement includes the principle of mutual respect, which
I heartily endorse.

I think the behaviour exhibited for months by the originator of this
thread is very unrespectful of this whole community, and that those who
bait and belittle this person are also disrespectful.

Neither bad behaviour excuses the other, and I find both those
behaviours to be against the principles in the PSF Diversity Statement.

> Ben, are you doing all you can to live up to the PSF ideals? Are you
> encouraging Nikos to be a good member of this community, or just
> standing idly by while others bully him?

I have several times responded with unequivocal public condemnation to
those who called for violence to be done against him.

No mere utterance of words can justify a call for violence in response,
and I want no-one to suffer that in this forum regardless how much of a
nuisance they have become.

> And I've called Nikos out on his retaliation too. He doesn't get a
> free pass from me.

I have long since consigned him to a kill-file: his unrepentantly
off-topic demands are far too voluminous for me to keep up with.

-- 
 \                             “Holy tintinnabulation, Batman!” —Robin |
  `\                                                                   |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney

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#55299

Στις 2/10/2013 10:29 πμ, ο/η Steven D'Aprano έγραψε:
> On Wed, 02 Oct 2013 16:49:22 +1000, Ben Finney wrote:
>
>> Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> writes:
>>
>>> Op 02-10-13 00:06, Ben Finney schreef:
>>>> This is an unmoderated forum, so we have occasional spates of
>>>> persistent nuisances, and those who respond with the maturity level
>>>> and impulse control of an average six-year-old.
>> […]
>>>
>>> And what about the impuls control and the maturity of people who can't
>>> stop answering [a nuisance], knowing they contribute to the nuisance to
>>> the group?
>>
>> Yes, we are in firm agreement here.
>
>
> Well that's a shame, and I think that your comment here is incompatible
> with your previous approval of the PSF Diversity Statement.
>
>      The Python Software Foundation and the global Python community
>      welcome and encourage participation by everyone. Our community is
>      based on mutual respect, tolerance, and encouragement, and we are
>      working to help each other live up to these principles. We want our
>      community to be more diverse: whoever you are, and whatever your
>      background, we welcome you.
>
>
> This doesn't say anything about bullying, mocking and belittling those we
> don't like. It says, *encourage* participation by *everyone*, and that
> includes annoyances like Nikos. Like it or not, he is part of the
> community of Python users too.
>
> I admit to serious reservations about the Diversity Statement and the
> Code of Conduct, but I think I am living up to their ideals. In my
> imperfect way, I am trying to encourage Nikos towards better behaviour by
> rewarding him for good behaviour (answer his sensible questions,
> encourage him to learn on his own) and discourage his bad behaviour. I
> don't mock him or belittle him, and I don't celebrate when he screws up.
>
> And if I slip up and do any of these things, then I would deserve to be
> called out on it.
>
> Ben, are you doing all you can to live up to the PSF ideals? Are you
> encouraging Nikos to be a good member of this community, or just standing
> idly by while others bully him?
>
> I can tell you this: if the PSF Code of Conduct applied here, Nikos would
> be a *distant* third on my list of people to be banned. He might be needy
> and annoying, but he is not abusive and hostile except when defending
> himself from the abuse and hostility of others.
>
> And I've called Nikos out on his retaliation too. He doesn't get a free
> pass from me.

My lawyer couldn't have said it better steven :)

Thanks for the vote of support.
The truth is _exactly_ as yoiu have stated it to be.

I apologize though oif some times i loose my temper and use impoprer 
vocabulary on some people. The pressure is just too high at some point 
when i see so many people critisize and make ironic comments agianst me 
all the time in every single thread i start.

I was even mocked because all i wanted to do was to optimize code and 
use the best solution there is to it.

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#55300

On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 8:22 PM, Νίκος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> wrote:
> I apologize though oif some times i loose my temper and use impoprer
> vocabulary on some people. The pressure is just too high at some point when
> i see so many people critisize and make ironic comments agianst me all the
> time in every single thread i start.
>
> I was even mocked because all i wanted to do was to optimize code and use
> the best solution there is to it.

Well, you weren't trying to use the best solution, for any meaning of
"best" other than "the one that feels most like Perl or APL".

Your primary problem, as I see it, is pressure. You cope VERY badly
under pressure. That's not a big deal in itself - I know plenty of
people like that - but if you're that sort of person, you need to
organize your life such that situations don't become pressured. That's
why I think it would be best for you, in the long run, to give up your
web hosting business and code for pure pleasure - that way, if you run
into a problem, you're not losing customers, and a delay of a day or
two won't hurt anything. You'll be able to work through your coding
issues at leisure, figure out what suits you, and actually spend the
time to _read_ what people are saying to you. Life would be
significantly better for you - and hugely better for this list,
because there'd be no more of these sorts of threads.

Slow down, you're movin' too fast.

ChrisA

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#55302

Στις 2/10/2013 1:32 μμ, ο/η Chris Angelico έγραψε:
> On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 8:22 PM, Νίκος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I apologize though oif some times i loose my temper and use impoprer
>> vocabulary on some people. The pressure is just too high at some point when
>> i see so many people critisize and make ironic comments agianst me all the
>> time in every single thread i start.
>>
>> I was even mocked because all i wanted to do was to optimize code and use
>> the best solution there is to it.
>
> Well, you weren't trying to use the best solution, for any meaning of
> "best" other than "the one that feels most like Perl or APL".
>
> Your primary problem, as I see it, is pressure. You cope VERY badly
> under pressure. That's not a big deal in itself - I know plenty of
> people like that - but if you're that sort of person, you need to
> organize your life such that situations don't become pressured. That's
> why I think it would be best for you, in the long run, to give up your
> web hosting business and code for pure pleasure - that way, if you run
> into a problem, you're not losing customers, and a delay of a day or
> two won't hurt anything. You'll be able to work through your coding
> issues at leisure, figure out what suits you, and actually spend the
> time to _read_ what people are saying to you. Life would be
> significantly better for you - and hugely better for this list,
> because there'd be no more of these sorts of threads.
>
> Slow down, you're movin' too fast.

Please bare with me. I will improve more and more over time.
I have stopped using Google groups because of the he new lines addition 
issues that you said it was annoying ans tarted using Thunderbird, and i 
have also corrected typo errors and try to type more slowly and take the 
time to correct typos.

As you see i'm improving over time.
I can assure you that i read all your answer carefully.

I only re-ask the same thing if:

1. Di not understood what was provided or proposed to me as being a solution
2. Still feel that that the solution provided to me doesn't meet my 
needs and should have been re-written in a different way. Nevertheless 
we are all improving, especially the newbies, by seeing alternative way, 
best methods and wise practices of writing code for the specific problem 
and pick the one that does the job best.

Just bare with me and you will see improving over time.

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#55306

On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 8:43 PM, Νίκος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just bare with me and you will see improving over time.

Tip: Start with this one... the word you want is 'bear'. In English,
those two words have very different meanings, even though they're
pronounced the same way; "bare with me" actually talks about getting
naked, whereas "bear with me" means what you think it does. :)

I'm quite okay with you improving over time, I'm even okay with it
happening slowly. And I think everyone here would agree with me on
that. But that's why I think you should code only as a hobby, because
that means you're not disrupting anything while you learn. It's the
safe option. It's like learning to drive a car out in the back paddock
(field, for you non-Australians) - there's nobody else to get hurt,
worst you can do is bang the car up a bit... and chances are it's an
old beat-up car anyway, so that's not a big deal. You don't learn to
drive by hopping into a taxi and collecting fares.

ChrisA

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#55308

Στις 2/10/2013 1:54 μμ, ο/η Chris Angelico έγραψε:
> On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 8:43 PM, Νίκος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Just bare with me and you will see improving over time.
>
> Tip: Start with this one... the word you want is 'bear'. In English,
> those two words have very different meanings, even though they're
> pronounced the same way; "bare with me" actually talks about getting
> naked, whereas "bear with me" means what you think it does. :)
>
> I'm quite okay with you improving over time, I'm even okay with it
> happening slowly. And I think everyone here would agree with me on
> that. But that's why I think you should code only as a hobby, because
> that means you're not disrupting anything while you learn. It's the
> safe option. It's like learning to drive a car out in the back paddock
> (field, for you non-Australians) - there's nobody else to get hurt,
> worst you can do is bang the car up a bit... and chances are it's an
> old beat-up car anyway, so that's not a big deal. You don't learn to
> drive by hopping into a taxi and collecting fares.

I know, but i have too.

All i can say its that my visitor's websites are working smoothly and 
the DNS, Mail issues and Python experiments are happening to my personal 
account, i don't mess at all with my client's data and their settings.

I have to make some money and that needs for some reason to happen now 
as we speak, so i have no alternative than to hop into a car and learn 
to drive during the process, hoping i will not bang the the

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#55309

Στις 2/10/2013 1:54 μμ, ο/η Chris Angelico έγραψε:
> On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 8:43 PM, Νίκος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Just bare with me and you will see improving over time.
>
> Tip: Start with this one... the word you want is 'bear'. In English,
> those two words have very different meanings, even though they're
> pronounced the same way; "bare with me" actually talks about getting
> naked, whereas "bear with me" means what you think it does. :)
>
> I'm quite okay with you improving over time, I'm even okay with it
> happening slowly. And I think everyone here would agree with me on
> that. But that's why I think you should code only as a hobby, because
> that means you're not disrupting anything while you learn. It's the
> safe option. It's like learning to drive a car out in the back paddock
> (field, for you non-Australians) - there's nobody else to get hurt,
> worst you can do is bang the car up a bit... and chances are it's an
> old beat-up car anyway, so that's not a big deal. You don't learn to
> drive by hopping into a taxi and collecting fares.

I know, but i have too.

All i can say its that my visitor's websites are working smoothly and 
the DNS, Mail issues and Python experiments are happening to my personal 
account, i don't mess at all with my client's data and their settings.

I have to make some money and that needs for some reason to happen now 
as we speak, so i have no alternative than to hop into a car and learn 
to drive during the process, hoping i will not bang-smash the car.

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#55310

On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 9:03 PM, Νίκος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> wrote:
> All i can say its that my visitor's websites are working smoothly and the
> DNS, Mail issues and Python experiments are happening to my personal
> account, i don't mess at all with my client's data and their settings.

But when you expose your account to vulnerabilities, you expose your
customers' web sites too. If you insist on doing this both ways, get
yourself a separate computer - maybe just run your own server at home,
it won't be the best but it'll be easy to do. That way, if you let
every man and his dog into your test box, your customers aren't
affected.

However, this is a non-Python subject, and one you'll do well to
research on Google rather than ask about.

ChrisA

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#55313

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Am 02.10.2013 13:03, schrieb Νίκος:
> I have to make some money and that needs for some reason to happen
> now as we speak, so i have no alternative than to hop into a car
> and learn to drive during the process, hoping i will not bang-smash
> the car.

I'm really sorry for the fact that it seems as though your livelyhood
really does depend on your current mess, but: this is not the way to
learn to administer servers or how to program. Do that first in one
way or another - and then start making money off it.

And, from my personal experience, you are exacerbating your problems
by behaving and/or acting as you currently are, as generally at some
point in time the mess you currently leave behind - which you
permanently choose to ignore - will start to become a liability for
the rest of your livelyhood, which _will_ then get you in real trouble.

- -- 
- --- Heiko.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSTATwAAoJEDMqpHf921/SK54IAJvUF+3nTJq5nKPN2s1WdQbz
hOvqMThrhBE7BG6ybF8TfbKpLmZ+20cZExVzn4Xy9PPGe+WTrt6UR8+UizSst1Vs
EgZ0DrmWb+WRN+nUZPyL45psDMaHdi1bQy0ReVGbav1faG9Y9tAMZ2KEQwfrnmZz
CJ9mTJ95IbuB3iizCdlUOT2qCzhGPyCsx1ejR6IkKofKaO0QU712V7rHN9u/xdlJ
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8B00cngvLTEf14AmMeIkno7GvTP5QWq7yNul7n85Pq6ZXJKWLjVLodKwYndSf9I=
=AOdw
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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#55326

On Wed, 02 Oct 2013 14:03:25 +0300, Νίκος wrote:

> I have to make some money and that needs for some reason to happen now
> as we speak, so i have no alternative than to hop into a car and learn
> to drive during the process, hoping i will not bang-smash the car.

Yes you have alternatives. You have many alternatives, even if you are 
determined to stay in this IT business. We have told you some of these 
alternatives before.

Some alternatives:

- Can you access Google? You can search for guides to do with securing 
web sites. You don't have to ask here. We are not experts on that. This 
is a Python list, not a website administration list.

- Books. Buy some books on system administration. Borrow them from the 
library. Even ten year old books going cheap are better than nothing, 
they will teach you the basic concepts.

- Go do a course.

- Set up a crappy old PC running Linux and put apache on it. Don't put 
anything important on it. You will probably find a million people on the 
internet who will break into it, if you give them permission, and tell 
you what they did. But we are not those people. Look elsewhere.

But don't trust them with anything important. After they are done, erase 
the entire disk and reinstall from scratch. Not everyone is as kind and 
trustworthy as us.

- If you can't find people to break into it for free, you can pay them. 
Surely there are Linux consultants in Greece that will secure your system 
for you for a fee? That's a legitimate business expense and will reduce 
your tax.

- Find a business partner. You can't be the only person in Greece 
interested in building up a web hosting business.


None of these things have anything to do with Python. This entire 
discussion is off-topic, I am only mentioning this to you as a courtesy, 
one human being to another. Please don't insult me by continuing this off-
topic discussion here on this Python list. This is comp.lang.python, not 
comp.lang.teach.nikos.everything.he.needs.to.learn.


Come back when you have Python questions. Everything else, take it away.



-- 
Steven

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#55327

On 2013-10-02 13:43, Νίκος wrote:
> 2. Still feel that that the solution provided to me doesn't meet my 
> needs and should have been re-written in a different way.

This is part of the trouble people had recently in the
IP-address/default-value thread.  Python has what folks here call a
"pythonic" style.  Adhering to this style helps others read your
code, and often makes it easy for other people to spot bugs.  By
breaking those conventions and demanding not only a solution, but
one that looks the way you think it should, you make it harder for
others to help you and verify the correctness of the solution.

You will be better off concisely posing the problem with no
expectation of how the solution will look.  Look at the answers that
come back:  if similar solutions appear in multiple replies, then
that's likely the best way to go.

> Mysql pass != account's password

As mentioned in other areas of this thread, with access to MySQL,
there are often ways to execute arbitrary shell-code on the server.

-tkc

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#55479

On Wednesday, October 2, 2013 5:43:32 AM UTC-5, Ferrous Cranus wrote:
>  
> I only re-ask the same thing if:
> 
> 
> 1. Di not understood what was provided or proposed to me as being a solution
> 
> 2. Still feel that that the solution provided to me doesn't meet my 
> needs and should have been re-written in a different way. Nevertheless 
> we are all improving, especially the newbies, by seeing alternative way, 
> best methods and wise practices of writing code for the specific problem 
> and pick the one that does the job best.
> 

If you feel that the provided solution doesn't meet your needs then the *most likely* answer is that you have asked the wrong question. Rather than, say, posting a new thread (unless your new question is clearly different and mostly unrelated), the appropriate course of action is to say something like,

"Hey, apparently I'm asking the wrong question, because all these answers are about frobnosticating, but I really wanted to foo the baz."

If you don't acknowledge that you goofed up, you come across as arrogant or ignorant (or both).

-W

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