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OSError [Errno 26] ?!?!

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  OSError [Errno 26] ?!?! Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-02 06:37 +0300
    Re: OSError [Errno 26] ?!?! Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2013-07-02 15:15 +1000
      Re: OSError [Errno 26] ?!?! Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-02 08:57 +0300
        Re: OSError [Errno 26] ?!?! Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2013-07-02 17:21 +1000
          Re: OSError [Errno 26] ?!?! Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-02 12:40 +0300
            Re: OSError [Errno 26] ?!?! Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2013-07-02 12:06 +0200
            Re: OSError [Errno 26] ?!?! Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2013-07-02 08:00 -0400
              Re: OSError [Errno 26] ?!?! Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> - 2013-07-02 15:39 +0300
                Re: OSError [Errno 26] ?!?! Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2013-07-02 15:00 +0200
                Re: OSError [Errno 26] ?!?! Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> - 2013-07-02 14:58 +0100
                  Re: OSError [Errno 26] ?!?! Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-07-03 00:19 +0000
                    Re: Persistence of CGI (was: OSError [Errno 26] ?!?!) Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2013-07-02 19:57 -0500
                Python list code of conduct Steve Simmons <square.steve@gmail.com> - 2013-07-02 16:51 +0100
                  Re: Python list code of conduct Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-07-03 00:42 +0000
                Re: Python list code of conduct Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-07-02 20:48 +0100
                Re: Python list code of conduct Skip Montanaro <skip@pobox.com> - 2013-07-02 15:33 -0500
                Re: Python list code of conduct Ned Deily <nad@acm.org> - 2013-07-02 13:52 -0700
                  Re: Python list code of conduct Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-07-02 19:46 -0400
                    Re: Python list code of conduct Ned Deily <nad@acm.org> - 2013-07-02 17:07 -0700
                    Re: Python list code of conduct Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2013-07-03 10:10 +1000
                    Bug reports [was Re: Python list code of conduct] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-07-03 00:52 +0000
                      Re: Bug reports [was Re: Python list code of conduct] Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-07-03 02:12 +0100
                      Re: Bug reports [was Re: Python list code of conduct] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-03 18:02 +1000
                        Re: Bug reports [was Re: Python list code of conduct] Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-07-03 10:03 -0400
                          Re: Bug reports [was Re: Python list code of conduct] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-04 00:15 +1000
                            Re: Bug reports [was Re: Python list code of conduct] Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-07-03 10:23 -0400
                              Re: Bug reports [was Re: Python list code of conduct] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-04 00:52 +1000
                          Re: Bug reports [was Re: Python list code of conduct] Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-03 20:11 +0000
                            Re: Bug reports [was Re: Python list code of conduct] Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-07-03 16:31 -0400
                              Re: Bug reports [was Re: Python list code of conduct] Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-03 21:52 +0000
                          IPv6 deployment by ISPs (was: Bug reports) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-07-04 11:15 +1000
                    Re: Python list code of conduct Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-07-03 02:18 -0400
                      Re: Python list code of conduct Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-07-03 10:10 -0400
                        Re: Python list code of conduct Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-07-03 17:24 +0000
                Re: Python list code of conduct Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-07-03 08:39 +1000
                  Re: Python list code of conduct Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-07-03 06:18 +0000
                Re: Python list code of conduct Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-07-02 19:15 -0400
                  Re: Python list code of conduct Neil Hodgson <nhodgson@iinet.net.au> - 2013-07-03 19:50 +1000
                Re: Python list code of conduct Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-07-03 10:39 +1000
                  Re: Python list code of conduct rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-07-03 04:50 -0700
                    Re: Python list code of conduct Steve Simmons <square.steve@gmail.com> - 2013-07-03 15:18 +0100

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#49605 — OSError [Errno 26] ?!?!

After making a slightly chnage inside my pelatologio.py script 
substituting '*****' instead of '-----' for no apparent reason i receive 
the following error:

[Tue Jul 02 06:33:06 2013] [error] [client 46.12.97.148] OSError: [Errno 
26] \\u0391\\u03c1\\u03c7\\u03b5\\u03af\\u03bf 
\\u03ba\\u03b5\\u03b9\\u03bc\\u03ad\\u03bd\\u03bf\\u03c5 \\u03c3\\u03b5 
\\u03c7\\u03c1

What is this OSError and these unicode characters besided it?
Here is the complete traceback.

[Tue Jul 02 06:33:06 2013] [error] [client 46.12.97.148] Original 
exception was:, referer: http://superhost.gr/
[Tue Jul 02 06:33:06 2013] [error] [client 46.12.97.148] Traceback (most 
recent call last):, referer: http://superhost.gr/
[Tue Jul 02 06:33:06 2013] [error] [client 46.12.97.148]   File 
"/home/nikos/public_html/cgi-bin/metrites.py", line 222, in <module>, 
referer: http://superhost.gr/
[Tue Jul 02 06:33:06 2013] [error] [client 46.12.97.148]     pypage = 
subprocess.check_output( cgi_path + page ), referer: http://superhost.gr/
[Tue Jul 02 06:33:06 2013] [error] [client 46.12.97.148]   File 
"/usr/local/lib/python3.3/subprocess.py", line 573, in check_output, 
referer: http://superhost.gr/
[Tue Jul 02 06:33:06 2013] [error] [client 46.12.97.148]     with 
Popen(*popenargs, stdout=PIPE, **kwargs) as process:, referer: 
http://superhost.gr/
[Tue Jul 02 06:33:06 2013] [error] [client 46.12.97.148]   File 
"/usr/local/lib/python3.3/subprocess.py", line 820, in __init__, 
referer: http://superhost.gr/
[Tue Jul 02 06:33:06 2013] [error] [client 46.12.97.148] 
restore_signals, start_new_session), referer: http://superhost.gr/
[Tue Jul 02 06:33:06 2013] [error] [client 46.12.97.148]   File 
"/usr/local/lib/python3.3/subprocess.py", line 1438, in _execute_child, 
referer: http://superhost.gr/
[Tue Jul 02 06:33:06 2013] [error] [client 46.12.97.148]     raise 
child_exception_type(errno_num, err_msg), referer: http://superhost.gr/
[Tue Jul 02 06:33:06 2013] [error] [client 46.12.97.148] OSError: [Errno 
26] \\u0391\\u03c1\\u03c7\\u03b5\\u03af\\u03bf 
\\u03ba\\u03b5\\u03b9\\u03bc\\u03ad\\u03bd\\u03bf\\u03c5 \\u03c3\\u03b5 
\\u03c7\\u03c1\\u03ae\\u03c3\\u03b7, referer: http://superhost.gr/

-- 
What is now proved was at first only imagined!

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#49608

On 02Jul2013 06:37, Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> wrote:
| After making a slightly chnage inside my pelatologio.py script
| substituting '*****' instead of '-----' for no apparent reason i
| receive the following error:
| 
| [Tue Jul 02 06:33:06 2013] [error] [client 46.12.97.148] OSError:
| [Errno 26] \\u0391\\u03c1\\u03c7\\u03b5\\u03af\\u03bf
| \\u03ba\\u03b5\\u03b9\\u03bc\\u03ad\\u03bd\\u03bf\\u03c5
| \\u03c3\\u03b5 \\u03c7\\u03c1

Errno 26 depends on your operating system. See "man 2 intro" for details.
But on my Mac and on a handle Linux system number 26 is:

   26 ETXTBSY Text file busy.  The new process was a pure procedure (shared
         text) file which was open for writing by another process, or
         while the pure procedure file was being executed an open call
         requested write access.

See the os.strerror function for printing the message from an errno number:

  http://docs.python.org/3/library/os.html#os.strerror

I'd say you're trying to write to a file you shouldn't be writing to.
Maybe an executable?

Try to get your script to print out the filename of whatever it was trying to
overwrite before the open() call.

Regarding the characters, I'd say they've been double escaped. Let's undo that:

  [/Users/cameron]fleet*> py3
  Python 3.3.2 (default, May 21 2013, 11:50:47)
  [GCC 4.2.1 Compatible Apple Clang 4.1 ((tags/Apple/clang-421.11.66))] on darwin
  Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
  >>> print('\\u0391\\u03c1\\u03c7\\u03b5\\u03af\\u03bf \\u03ba\\u03b5\\u03b9\\u03bc\\u03ad\\u03bd\\u03bf\\u03c5 \\u03c3\\u03b5 \\u03c7\\u03c1')
  \u0391\u03c1\u03c7\u03b5\u03af\u03bf \u03ba\u03b5\u03b9\u03bc\u03ad\u03bd\u03bf\u03c5 \u03c3\u03b5 \u03c7\u03c1
  >>> print('\u0391\u03c1\u03c7\u03b5\u03af\u03bf \u03ba\u03b5\u03b9\u03bc\u03ad\u03bd\u03bf\u03c5 \u03c3\u03b5 \u03c7\u03c1')
  Αρχείο κειμένου σε χρ
  >>>

I can't read that, but I'd hope you can.

| What is this OSError and these unicode characters besided it?
| Here is the complete traceback.

A traceback without code isn't terribly useful.

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au>

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#49612

Στις 2/7/2013 8:15 πμ, ο/η Cameron Simpson έγραψε:
> On 02Jul2013 06:37, Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> wrote:
> | After making a slightly chnage inside my pelatologio.py script
> | substituting '*****' instead of '-----' for no apparent reason i
> | receive the following error:
> |
> | [Tue Jul 02 06:33:06 2013] [error] [client 46.12.97.148] OSError:
> | [Errno 26] \\u0391\\u03c1\\u03c7\\u03b5\\u03af\\u03bf
> | \\u03ba\\u03b5\\u03b9\\u03bc\\u03ad\\u03bd\\u03bf\\u03c5
> | \\u03c3\\u03b5 \\u03c7\\u03c1
>
> Errno 26 depends on your operating system. See "man 2 intro" for details.
> But on my Mac and on a handle Linux system number 26 is:
>
>     26 ETXTBSY Text file busy.  The new process was a pure procedure (shared
>           text) file which was open for writing by another process, or
>           while the pure procedure file was being executed an open call
>           requested write access.
>
> See the os.strerror function for printing the message from an errno number:
>
>    http://docs.python.org/3/library/os.html#os.strerror
>
> I'd say you're trying to write to a file you shouldn't be writing to.
> Maybe an executable?
>
> Try to get your script to print out the filename of whatever it was trying to
> overwrite before the open() call.
>
> Regarding the characters, I'd say they've been double escaped. Let's undo that:
>
>    [/Users/cameron]fleet*> py3
>    Python 3.3.2 (default, May 21 2013, 11:50:47)
>    [GCC 4.2.1 Compatible Apple Clang 4.1 ((tags/Apple/clang-421.11.66))] on darwin
>    Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>    >>> print('\\u0391\\u03c1\\u03c7\\u03b5\\u03af\\u03bf \\u03ba\\u03b5\\u03b9\\u03bc\\u03ad\\u03bd\\u03bf\\u03c5 \\u03c3\\u03b5 \\u03c7\\u03c1')
>    \u0391\u03c1\u03c7\u03b5\u03af\u03bf \u03ba\u03b5\u03b9\u03bc\u03ad\u03bd\u03bf\u03c5 \u03c3\u03b5 \u03c7\u03c1
>    >>> print('\u0391\u03c1\u03c7\u03b5\u03af\u03bf \u03ba\u03b5\u03b9\u03bc\u03ad\u03bd\u03bf\u03c5 \u03c3\u03b5 \u03c7\u03c1')
>    Αρχείο κειμένου σε χρ
>    >>>
>
> I can't read that, but I'd hope you can.
>
> | What is this OSError and these unicode characters besided it?
> | Here is the complete traceback.
>
> A traceback without code isn't terribly useful.
>
> Cheers,

Thank you, the error have been caused due to the fact that the uploading 
procedure of my edited 'pelatologio.py' hadn't been completed yet, while 
i was requesting the execution of the script via browser.

I didn't had to do anything it solved by itself, after upload was 
successful and file got  unlocked for access.

Thanks Cameron, and indeed the error message as you printed the Unicode 
characters was saying in Greek that file was in use.

-- 
What is now proved was at first only imagined!

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#49622

On 02Jul2013 08:57, Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> wrote:
| Thank you, the error have been caused due to the fact that the
| uploading procedure of my edited 'pelatologio.py' hadn't been
| completed yet, while i was requesting the execution of the script
| via browser.
| 
| I didn't had to do anything it solved by itself, after upload was
| successful and file got  unlocked for access.

If you're uploading using sftp (or, worse, ftp), might I suggest
using rsync instead? Amongst other features, it uploads to a temporary
file and then renames the temporary file to the real file. There is
no window where the "live" file is being written to. The live file
is the old one, and then later it is the new one.

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au>

No team manager will tell you this; but they all want to see you
come walking back into the pits sometimes, carrying the steering wheel.
        - Mario Andretti

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#49631

Στις 2/7/2013 10:21 πμ, ο/η Cameron Simpson έγραψε:
> On 02Jul2013 08:57, Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> wrote:
> | Thank you, the error have been caused due to the fact that the
> | uploading procedure of my edited 'pelatologio.py' hadn't been
> | completed yet, while i was requesting the execution of the script
> | via browser.
> |
> | I didn't had to do anything it solved by itself, after upload was
> | successful and file got  unlocked for access.
>
> If you're uploading using sftp (or, worse, ftp), might I suggest
> using rsync instead? Amongst other features, it uploads to a temporary
> file and then renames the temporary file to the real file. There is
> no window where the "live" file is being written to. The live file
> is the old one, and then later it is the new one.


Actually i'm uploading via Notepad++'s NPPFtp plugin, which i'm afraid 
is pure ftp and not even sftp.

If i try to upload via FileZilla instead(which i can use as sftp on port 
22), then it messes the cgi scripts encoding by uploading it as 
iso-8859-7 which then i need to ssh to the remote host and change it 
back to utf-8.

Also sometimes it takes a lot of time even with Notepad++ to even upload 
a 50 KB script.

Please tell me how to use the rsync method especially it would be best 
if i cna use it via text editor, Notepad++ or even better with Sublime Text.

Thank you Cameron.

-- 
What is now proved was at first only imagined!

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#49632

On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> wrote:
> Στις 2/7/2013 10:21 πμ, ο/η Cameron Simpson έγραψε:
>>
>> On 02Jul2013 08:57, Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> wrote:
>> | Thank you, the error have been caused due to the fact that the
>> | uploading procedure of my edited 'pelatologio.py' hadn't been
>> | completed yet, while i was requesting the execution of the script
>> | via browser.
>> |
>> | I didn't had to do anything it solved by itself, after upload was
>> | successful and file got  unlocked for access.
>>
>> If you're uploading using sftp (or, worse, ftp), might I suggest
>> using rsync instead? Amongst other features, it uploads to a temporary
>> file and then renames the temporary file to the real file. There is
>> no window where the "live" file is being written to. The live file
>> is the old one, and then later it is the new one.
>
>
>
> Actually i'm uploading via Notepad++'s NPPFtp plugin, which i'm afraid is
> pure ftp and not even sftp.

The only thing SFTP and FTP have in common is that they are Internet
protocols.  Inside, they are much, much different.  And you should
NEVER use FTP.  (also, why Notepad++?  I’d suggest getting a better
editor first.)

> If i try to upload via FileZilla instead(which i can use as sftp on port
> 22), then it messes the cgi scripts encoding by uploading it as iso-8859-7
> which then i need to ssh to the remote host and change it back to utf-8.

You need to reconfigure FileZilla then.  Site Manager (first icon on
the toolbar) → your site → Charset → Force UTF-8.

> Also sometimes it takes a lot of time even with Notepad++ to even upload a
> 50 KB script.
>
> Please tell me how to use the rsync method especially it would be best if i
> cna use it via text editor, Notepad++ or even better with Sublime Text.

Under Windows?  I suggest installing Cygwin or switching over to
Linux, for your sanity.  If you don’t want either, look for a Windows
port of rsync.  The next step is to read the included man page.

--
Kwpolska <http://kwpolska.tk> | GPG KEY: 5EAAEA16
stop html mail                | always bottom-post
http://asciiribbon.org        | http://caliburn.nl/topposting.html

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#49633

On 07/02/2013 06:06 AM, Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> wrote:
>> Στις 2/7/2013 10:21 πμ, ο/η Cameron Simpson έγραψε:
>>>
>>> On 02Jul2013 08:57, Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> wrote:
>>> | Thank you, the error have been caused due to the fact that the
>>> | uploading procedure of my edited 'pelatologio.py' hadn't been
>>> | completed yet, while i was requesting the execution of the script
>>> | via browser.
>>> |
>>> | I didn't had to do anything it solved by itself, after upload was
>>> | successful and file got  unlocked for access.
>>>
>>> If you're uploading using sftp (or, worse, ftp), might I suggest
>>> using rsync instead? Amongst other features, it uploads to a temporary
>>> file and then renames the temporary file to the real file. There is
>>> no window where the "live" file is being written to. The live file
>>> is the old one, and then later it is the new one.
>>
>>
>>
>> Actually i'm uploading via Notepad++'s NPPFtp plugin, which i'm afraid is
>> pure ftp and not even sftp.
>
> The only thing SFTP and FTP have in common is that they are Internet
> protocols.  Inside, they are much, much different.  And you should
> NEVER use FTP.  (also, why Notepad++?  I’d suggest getting a better
> editor first.)
>
>> If i try to upload via FileZilla instead(which i can use as sftp on port
>> 22), then it messes the cgi scripts encoding by uploading it as iso-8859-7
>> which then i need to ssh to the remote host and change it back to utf-8.
>
> You need to reconfigure FileZilla then.  Site Manager (first icon on
> the toolbar) → your site → Charset → Force UTF-8.

Much better:  upload all files as binary, so they are byte for byte 
identical on both systems.  Sometimes that might require some local 
preparing, but that beats strange problems with encodings, line endings, 
etc.

Perhaps it's obvious, but that also means a local staging area whose 
directory tree is identical to the target system.

>
>> Also sometimes it takes a lot of time even with Notepad++ to even upload a
>> 50 KB script.
>>
>> Please tell me how to use the rsync method especially it would be best if i
>> cna use it via text editor, Notepad++ or even better with Sublime Text.

Once you have done my suggestions above, a single rsynch command will 
upload any files that have changed, without you specifying which ones 
they are.  So you don't need the "integrated file transfer feature" of 
various editors & guis.  You just run one batch file which you set up, 
and when it finishes, the systems will match.

>
> Under Windows?  I suggest installing Cygwin or switching over to
> Linux, for your sanity.  If you don’t want either, look for a Windows
> port of rsync.  The next step is to read the included man page.
>

rsynch has lots of option switches, but once set up, it's trivial to use.



-- 
DaveA

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#49636

Στις 2/7/2013 3:00 μμ, ο/η Dave Angel έγραψε:
ou need to reconfigure FileZilla then.  Site Manager (first icon on
>> the toolbar) → your site → Charset → Force UTF-8.
>
> Much better:  upload all files as binary, so they are byte for byte
> identical on both systems.  Sometimes that might require some local
> preparing, but that beats strange problems with encodings, line endings,
> etc.

I currently have it on Auto-Detect.
I think its smart enough what is a binary file and what is an ASCII 
script, not sure though.

> Once you have done my suggestions above, a single rsynch command will
> upload any files that have changed, without you specifying which ones
> they are.  So you don't need the "integrated file transfer feature" of
> various editors & guis.  You just run one batch file which you set up,
> and when it finishes, the systems will match.


How and from where should i use rsync?

I currently ditched FileZilla and start using CrossFTP Pro.
I searched inside it but i have seen  no rsync command/method just 
"Synchronized Browsing"

>> Under Windows?  I suggest installing Cygwin or switching over to
>> Linux, for your sanity.  If you don’t want either, look for a Windows
>> port of rsync.  The next step is to read the included man page.
>>
>
> rsynch has lots of option switches, but once set up, it's trivial to use.

Is rsync a command on the remote server or can be found as a standalone 
tool too?

Please suggest an editor that has built in rsync ability so to 
immediately upload my cgi-scripts when i hit save in the text editor.

How do you guys upload your files/scripts to remote hosts ?


-- 
What is now proved was at first only imagined!

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#49638

On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> wrote:
> How and from where should i use rsync?

>From your computer, in the command line.

> I currently ditched FileZilla and start using CrossFTP Pro.
> I searched inside it but i have seen  no rsync command/method just
> "Synchronized Browsing"

Look for a rsync client, not a FTP/SFTP client.

> Is rsync a command on the remote server or can be found as a standalone tool
> too?

Both.

> Please suggest an editor that has built in rsync ability so to immediately
> upload my cgi-scripts when i hit save in the text editor.

CGI?  Is this 2000?  Nobody uses that wording these days.

I’ve yet to see a Windowsy editor with rsync support.  But you should
choose the editor that works the best for you, not the editor which
has rsync support.

> How do you guys upload your files/scripts to remote hosts ?

I, for one, use sftp or edit directly on the server with vim, my
editor of choice.

--
Kwpolska <http://kwpolska.tk> | GPG KEY: 5EAAEA16
stop html mail                | always bottom-post
http://asciiribbon.org        | http://caliburn.nl/topposting.html

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#49641

On 2013-07-02 14:00, Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> wrote:

>> Please suggest an editor that has built in rsync ability so to immediately
>> upload my cgi-scripts when i hit save in the text editor.
>
> CGI?  Is this 2000?  Nobody uses that wording these days.

He is indeed using actual, bona fide CGI scripts. It's not just an antiquated 
wording for "web app".

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco

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#49676

On Tue, 02 Jul 2013 14:58:18 +0100, Robert Kern wrote:

> On 2013-07-02 14:00, Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick wrote:
>> On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Νίκος <nikos@superhost.gr> wrote:
> 
>>> Please suggest an editor that has built in rsync ability so to
>>> immediately upload my cgi-scripts when i hit save in the text editor.
>>
>> CGI?  Is this 2000?  Nobody uses that wording these days.
> 
> He is indeed using actual, bona fide CGI scripts. It's not just an
> antiquated wording for "web app".


CGI didn't stop working just because more powerful, or better, 
alternatives now exist.



-- 
Steven

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#49685 — Re: Persistence of CGI (was: OSError [Errno 26] ?!?!)

On 2013-07-03 00:19, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> CGI didn't stop working just because more powerful, or better, 
> alternatives now exist.

And for most exceptionally cheap hosting services, your choices are
usually limited to PHP, static HTML (possibly server-side includes if
you're lucky), or CGI.  So CGI is often the easiest way to get
dynamic websites written in Python (or Perl) onto cheap web
providers.  And for the small sites that use such hosting, the
overhead of CGI doesn't generally cause much issue.

-tkc

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#49642 — Python list code of conduct

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Erm,

It probably isn't the best time to start this post but I was wondering...

Does this list have a code of conduct or a netiqeutte (sp?) statement/requirement? 

If not, should it? 

Is the membership of this list presently in the right frame of mind to create one or update any existing one? 

The reason I ask is that it seems to me that if we (the current membership of the list) could agree to a set of preferred/required behaviours we would at least have a framework by which to measure unwelcome posts.  And, more importantly, to guide newcomers in understanding that we are enthusiasts who choose to discuss Python and  *voluntarily* help solve problems with Python for the less experienced members.

[Runs for cover]

Steve Simmons



Sent from a Galaxy far far away

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#49679 — Re: Python list code of conduct

On Tue, 02 Jul 2013 16:51:38 +0100, Steve Simmons wrote:

> Erm,
> 
> It probably isn't the best time to start this post but I was
> wondering...
> 
> Does this list have a code of conduct or a netiqeutte (sp?)
> statement/requirement?
> 
> If not, should it?

I *knew* this would be raised. You are right to do so, of course, but I 
really, really, REALLY wasn't looking forward to it.

No, this list does not have a Code of Conduct, apart from the informal 
conventions of netiquette (most of which can be summed up with "don't be 
a dick") that most public forums populated by adults[1] operate under. 

In practical terms, it *cannot* have a Code of Conduct enforced, because 
it is an unmoderated list. Anyone can join. Anyone can post. It exists as 
both email and news.

Do we need one? No, I don't think so. I'm philosophically opposed to 
formalising the idea of "polite behaviour" in a Code of Conduct for 
various reasons, but even putting that aside I have been here for at 
least 7 years, and I've seen Xah Lee come and go (and come, and go...) 
and Ranting Rick in full-on troll mode, and spammers, and endless heated 
discussions about fine semantics of some aspect of Python's object model. 
People come and go, but the community goes on, and we have weathered all 
of those and we will weather this damned argument over whether or not it 
is appropriate to flame help-vampires or not.





[1] I refer to state of maturity, not chronological age. Some people are 
adult at ten, others can live to ninety and never be worthy of the term.


-- 
Steven

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#49649 — Re: Python list code of conduct

On 2 July 2013 16:51, Steve Simmons <square.steve@gmail.com> wrote:
> Erm,
>
> It probably isn't the best time to start this post but I was wondering...
>
> Does this list have a code of conduct or a netiqeutte (sp?)
> statement/requirement?
>
> If not, should it?
>
> Is the membership of this list presently in the right frame of mind to
> create one or update any existing one?
>
> The reason I ask is that it seems to me that if we (the current membership
> of the list) could agree to a set of preferred/required behaviours we would
> at least have a framework by which to measure unwelcome posts. And, more
> importantly, to guide newcomers in understanding that we are enthusiasts who
> choose to discuss Python and *voluntarily* help solve problems with Python
> for the less experienced members.

I don't know if we do and I'll support such measures (pending that
they're done intelligently) but unfortunately there seem to be at
least two problems with your plan.

- There seems to be no authority for upholding such rules
- Newbies never read around

That said, the idea itself is well grounded. I'd suggest stealing the
rules Python already has somewhere.

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#49654 — Re: Python list code of conduct

> Does this list have a code of conduct or a netiqeutte (sp?) statement/requirement?
>
> If not, should it?

No, and probably not.  As Joshua Landau indicated, nobody reads the
user manual anyway.  In addition, this mailing list is not currently
moderated in an approve-each-message sort of way (and I doubt anyone
wants to take on that task).  The gateway with comp.lang.python makes
things somewhat worse I would think.  I've forgotten how Usenet works
for moderation (far too many dead neurons ago), but I doubt it would
be all that effective.  ISTR moderation is done using a simple header
which can be faked.

If someone annoys you to no end, I think your best recourse is to
ignore their posts or ignore threads which seem to generate more heat
than light.

In the old Usenet days, periodic (monthly?) posting of FAQs was common
in many newsgroups. Ignoring fake newsgroups like the stuff that
Google Groups and Gmane create, this mailing list is my only exposure
to Usenet.  I have no idea if periodic FAQ posting is common practice
anymore.  It might be worthwhile to create one if it's kept fairly
brief and to the point.

Skip

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#49655 — Re: Python list code of conduct

In article <a3704f85-2ef1-41e7-8fd1-8d7191f3fddb@email.android.com>,
 Steve Simmons <square.steve@gmail.com> wrote:
> Does this list have a code of conduct or a netiqeutte (sp?) 
> statement/requirement? 

>From http://www.python.org/community/lists/

comp.lang.python

comp.lang.python is a high-volume Usenet open (not moderated) newsgroup 
for general discussions and questions about Python. You can also access 
it as a mailing list through python-list.

Pretty much anything Python-related is fair game for discussion, and the 
group is even fairly tolerant of off-topic digressions; there have been 
entertaining discussions of topics such as floating point, good software 
design, and other programming languages such as Lisp and Forth.

Most discussion on comp.lang.python is about developing with Python, not 
about development of the Python interpreter itself. Some of the core 
developers still read the list, but most of them don't. Occasionally 
comp.lang.python suggestions have resulted in an enhancement proposal 
being written, leading to a new Python feature. If you find a bug in 
Python, don't send it to comp.lang.python; file a bug report in the 
issue tracker.

Items posted on the Usenet group appear on the mailing list, and vice 
versa (bidirectional gateway). Due to the mysteries of Usenet, the order 
in which items show up may vary.

Rudeness and personal attacks, even in reaction to blatant flamebait, 
are strongly frowned upon. People may strongly disagree on an issue, but 
usually discussion remains civil. In case of an actual flamebait 
posting, you can ignore it, quietly plonk the offending poster in your 
killfile or mail filters, or write a sharp but still-polite response, 
but at all costs resist the urge to flame back. Generally 
comp.lang.python is a high-signal, low-noise group. It's also a 
high-traffic group, running at around 200 posts per day.

There are several different archives:
   ?  Google Groups archive of comp.lang.python
   ?  python.org archive of python-list
   ?  gmane.org archive of python-list

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad@acm.org

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#49669 — Re: Python list code of conduct

In article <mailman.4125.1372798337.3114.python-list@python.org>,
 Ned Deily <nad@acm.org> wrote:

> If you find a bug in Python, don't send it to comp.lang.python; file 
> a bug report in the issue tracker.

I'm not sure I agree with that one, at least not fully.  It's certainly 
true that you shouldn't expect anybody to do anything about a bug unless 
you open an issue.

On the other hand, I often find it useful to discuss things that I 
believe are bugs on c.l.p first.  Sometimes people will explain to me 
that I'm just doing it wrong.  Sometimes the discussion will end up 
with, "Yeah, that's a bug".  In either case, it serves as a good initial 
filter for whether I should file a bug or not, and the discussion is 
often educational.

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#49672 — Re: Python list code of conduct

In article <roy-D8C68F.19461302072013@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>,
 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> wrote:
> In article <mailman.4125.1372798337.3114.python-list@python.org>,
>  Ned Deily <nad@acm.org> wrote:> 
> > If you find a bug in Python, don't send it to comp.lang.python; file 
> > a bug report in the issue tracker. 
> I'm not sure I agree with that one, at least not fully.  It's certainly 
> true that you shouldn't expect anybody to do anything about a bug unless 
> you open an issue.
> 
> On the other hand, I often find it useful to discuss things that I 
> believe are bugs on c.l.p first.  Sometimes people will explain to me 
> that I'm just doing it wrong.  Sometimes the discussion will end up 
> with, "Yeah, that's a bug".  In either case, it serves as a good initial 
> filter for whether I should file a bug or not, and the discussion is 
> often educational.

For the record, those are not my words, rather a quote from the 
"charter" for this forum on http://www.python.org/community/lists/.  I 
think the point of the quoted words is not to discourage discussion here 
but rather a reminder about the role of the issue tracker.  As you say, 
don't expect anybody to do anything about it without an issue on the 
tracker.

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad@acm.org

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#49673 — Re: Python list code of conduct

On 02Jul2013 19:46, Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> wrote:
| In article <mailman.4125.1372798337.3114.python-list@python.org>,
|  Ned Deily <nad@acm.org> wrote:
| 
| > If you find a bug in Python, don't send it to comp.lang.python; file 
| > a bug report in the issue tracker.
| 
| I'm not sure I agree with that one, at least not fully.  It's certainly 
| true that you shouldn't expect anybody to do anything about a bug unless 
| you open an issue.
| 
| On the other hand, I often find it useful to discuss things that I 
| believe are bugs on c.l.p first.  Sometimes people will explain to me 
| that I'm just doing it wrong.  Sometimes the discussion will end up 
| with, "Yeah, that's a bug".  In either case, it serves as a good initial 
| filter for whether I should file a bug or not, and the discussion is 
| often educational.

+1

I've certinly been educated that way.
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au>

Try not to get sucked into the vortex of hell, Billy!
        - MST3K, "Megalon vs. Godzilla"

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