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Proper place for everything

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  Proper place for everything Jason Benjamin <hexusnexus@gmail.com> - 2012-11-02 04:20 -0700
    Re: Proper place for everything Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> - 2012-11-02 11:38 +0000
      Re: Proper place for everything Jason Benjamin <hexusnexus@gmail.com> - 2012-11-02 06:49 -0700
        Re: Proper place for everything Tim Golden <mail@timgolden.me.uk> - 2012-11-02 14:29 +0000
        Re: Proper place for everything Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-11-02 13:31 -0400
          Re: Proper place for everything Jason Benjamin <hexusnexus@gmail.com> - 2012-11-02 11:11 -0700
          Re: Proper place for everything Jason Benjamin <hexusnexus@gmail.com> - 2012-11-02 11:51 -0700
            Re: Proper place for everything Tim Golden <mail@timgolden.me.uk> - 2012-11-02 20:05 +0000
              Re: Proper place for everything Jason Benjamin <hexusnexus@gmail.com> - 2012-11-02 13:48 -0700
                Re: Proper place for everything Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-11-02 22:14 +0000
            Re: Proper place for everything Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-11-02 22:12 +0000
              Re: Proper place for everything rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-11-05 11:43 -0800
    Re: Proper place for everything Tim Golden <mail@timgolden.me.uk> - 2012-11-02 11:42 +0000
    Re: Proper place for everything Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2012-11-02 11:47 +0000
    Re: Proper place for everything Ulrich Eckhardt <ulrich.eckhardt@dominolaser.com> - 2012-11-02 13:26 +0100
    Re: Proper place for everything Zero Piraeus <schesis@gmail.com> - 2012-11-02 10:09 -0400
    Re: Proper place for everything Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-11-02 21:57 +0000
      Re: Proper place for everything aahz@pythoncraft.com (Aahz) - 2012-11-03 22:19 -0700
        Re: Proper place for everything Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-11-04 07:58 +0000
          Re: Proper place for everything Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-11-04 06:17 -0500

#32623 — Proper place for everything

Anybody know of the appropriate place to troll and flame about various 
Python related issues?  I'm kind of mad about some Python stuff and I 
need a place to vent where people may or may not listen, but at at least 
respond.  Thought this would be a strange question, but I might as well 
start somewhere.

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#32625

On 11/2/12 11:20 AM, Jason Benjamin wrote:
> Anybody know of the appropriate place to troll and flame about various Python
> related issues?  I'm kind of mad about some Python stuff and I need a place to
> vent where people may or may not listen, but at at least respond.  Thought this
> would be a strange question, but I might as well start somewhere.

There are plenty of good, free blog hosting options.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco

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#32629

Yeah, alright.  I've just found that if you mention anything about a 
library that has well established competitors, the post will tend to get 
ignored here.

On 11/02/2012 04:38 AM, Robert Kern wrote:
> On 11/2/12 11:20 AM, Jason Benjamin wrote:
>> Anybody know of the appropriate place to troll and flame about various
>> Python
>> related issues?  I'm kind of mad about some Python stuff and I need a
>> place to
>> vent where people may or may not listen, but at at least respond.
>> Thought this
>> would be a strange question, but I might as well start somewhere.
>
> There are plenty of good, free blog hosting options.
>

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#32632

On 02/11/2012 13:49, Jason Benjamin wrote:
> Yeah, alright.  I've just found that if you mention anything about a
> library that has well established competitors, the post will tend to get
> ignored here.

I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to. (Perhaps you can link to
an existing post or discussion).

Without hearing a tone of voice, I'm not sure whether with "... will
tend to get ignored here" you're suggesting a conspiracy of silence or
merely a general lack of interest.

The people who read and post here are the people who read and post here.
And they comment according to whatever interests them or whatever
opinions they hold. That people choose to respond to a post about
Library A and not to one about Library B should not be construed as
representing any kind of behind-the-scenes action encouraging or
suppressing interest. It simply means that the people who felt like it
commented on Library A and not on Library B.

Or have I misunderstood the tenor of your comment?

TJG

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#32641

On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 06:49:18 -0700, Jason Benjamin
<hexusnexus@gmail.com> declaimed the following in
gmane.comp.python.general:

> Yeah, alright.  I've just found that if you mention anything about a 
> library that has well established competitors, the post will tend to get 
> ignored here.
> 
	Interesting... The oldest post still in my news reader's cache is
October 17.

	Since that time, there are only two posts under your name in that
cache, both in this thread. You should maybe provide some link to such a
post so late-comers or others can find them... a message-ID could be
useful...

	I'll concede some posts may have been removed from the cache due to
filter actions (though for this group as found on gmane I only have
three active filters, and your name is not in any of them).
-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
        wlfraed@ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

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#32645

It's a *really* old post, but it was back when I was first started 
learning Python when Python 3 wasn't out yet.  It was a dumb question so 
I can see why people wouldn't have had interest in answering it, but I 
had been developing a game and wanted to find a recommendation on a GUI 
toolkit.  Now that that's out, yes, I realize I could have searched the 
Internet for some ideas, but I tend to have tunnel vision when it comes 
to the Internet, much like modern teenagers seem to only realize they 
can communicate with Facebook.  The incident may have been isolated, but 
I stereotype.


On 11/02/2012 10:31 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 06:49:18 -0700, Jason Benjamin
> <hexusnexus@gmail.com> declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>> Yeah, alright.  I've just found that if you mention anything about a
>> library that has well established competitors, the post will tend to get
>> ignored here.
>>
> 	Interesting... The oldest post still in my news reader's cache is
> October 17.
>
> 	Since that time, there are only two posts under your name in that
> cache, both in this thread. You should maybe provide some link to such a
> post so late-comers or others can find them... a message-ID could be
> useful...
>
> 	I'll concede some posts may have been removed from the cache due to
> filter actions (though for this group as found on gmane I only have
> three active filters, and your name is not in any of them).
>

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#32650

On another note, it appears that Google (the only archive I can find for 
this group) only has a little under 400 messages archived for this 
group, while the slackware newsgroup has upwards 40,000 and contains 
posts I can't even remember that were made with one of the first emails 
I've ever used.

On 11/02/2012 10:31 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 06:49:18 -0700, Jason Benjamin
> <hexusnexus@gmail.com> declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>> Yeah, alright.  I've just found that if you mention anything about a
>> library that has well established competitors, the post will tend to get
>> ignored here.
>>
> 	Interesting... The oldest post still in my news reader's cache is
> October 17.
>
> 	Since that time, there are only two posts under your name in that
> cache, both in this thread. You should maybe provide some link to such a
> post so late-comers or others can find them... a message-ID could be
> useful...
>
> 	I'll concede some posts may have been removed from the cache due to
> filter actions (though for this group as found on gmane I only have
> three active filters, and your name is not in any of them).
>

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#32656

On 02/11/2012 18:51, Jason Benjamin wrote:
> On another note, it appears that Google (the only archive I can find for
> this group) only has a little under 400 messages archived for this
> group

   http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/

 
http://markmail.org/search/?q=python#query:python%20list%3Aorg.python.python-list+page:1+state:facets

and doubtless others.

TJG

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#32659

Yeah, now that I take a look at the said old post on this group, I can 
see why the post was ignored:

http://markmail.org/thread/mnxpzt4jzx3zjeio

On 11/02/2012 01:05 PM, Tim Golden wrote:
> On 02/11/2012 18:51, Jason Benjamin wrote:
>> On another note, it appears that Google (the only archive I can find for
>> this group) only has a little under 400 messages archived for this
>> group
>
>    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/
>
>
> http://markmail.org/search/?q=python#query:python%20list%3Aorg.python.python-list+page:1+state:facets
>
>
> and doubtless others.
>
> TJG
>

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#32666

On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 13:48:27 -0700, Jason Benjamin wrote:

> Yeah, now that I take a look at the said old post on this group, I can
> see why the post was ignored:
> 
> http://markmail.org/thread/mnxpzt4jzx3zjeio

Good lord man, that was FOUR AND A HALF YEARS AGO. Have you been holding 
a grudge for all that time? Maybe nobody knew the answer. I certainly 
don't.

The question was:

[quote]
I have some PNGs with transparent backgrounds.  How do I draw them
using PyGTK?
[end quote]


It is perfectly appropriate to wait three or four days, then reply with a 
comment requesting attention. You probably would have got some answers, 
even if they were only "take it to a specialist PyGTK mailing list".


-- 
Steven

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#32665

On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 11:51:29 -0700, Jason Benjamin wrote:

> On another note, it appears that Google (the only archive I can find for
> this group) only has a little under 400 messages archived for this
> group,

Google Groups is poison. If you post with it, you will be ignored by a 
large percentage of the regulars here.

Good options are:

- Use the official email mailing list instead of news:

  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

  Do yourself (and us) a HUGE favour and use regular mail, not daily
  digests.

- If you prefer Usenet, and your ISP gives you access to comp.lang.python,
  use that.

- If not, there are many cheap Usenet providers you can try.

- Try http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general


Bad options are:

- Absolutely anything to do with Google Groups. It's a crap user-
  interface, posts don't follow established standards for email and news,
  and Google requires you to sign in just to read the archives, which in
  my opinion is morally indefensible.



-- 
Steven

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#32784

On 11/02/2012 04:12 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 11:51:29 -0700, Jason Benjamin wrote:
> 
>> On another note, it appears that Google (the only archive I can find for
>> this group) only has a little under 400 messages archived for this
>> group,
> 
> Google Groups is poison. If you post with it, you will be ignored by a 
> large percentage of the regulars here.
>[...]
> Bad options are:
> 
> - Absolutely anything to do with Google Groups. It's a crap user-
>   interface, posts don't follow established standards for email and news,
>   and Google requires you to sign in just to read the archives, which in
>   my opinion is morally indefensible.

Jason,

You should also be aware that there are a number of 
people here such as myself that use Google Groups for 
various reasons and there is concurrently some discussion 
of this in other threads including the correction of
just plain erroneous info about GG that has been
propagated here.

AFAIK, there is no real definition of "regular" nor 
any count of how many of them (whoever "them" is) that 
ignore GG.  Pretty obviously "crap user interface" is 
in the eye of the beholder and the login requirement 
is a personal issue.  

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#32626

On 02/11/2012 11:20, Jason Benjamin wrote:
> Anybody know of the appropriate place to troll and flame about various
> Python related issues?  I'm kind of mad about some Python stuff and I
> need a place to vent where people may or may not listen, but at at least
> respond.  Thought this would be a strange question, but I might as well
> start somewhere.

A Blog seems the obvious choice. If you don't already have one there are
certainly freely-hosted ones available: blogspot, wordpress, etc.

TJG

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#32627

On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 04:20:20 -0700, Jason Benjamin wrote:

> Anybody know of the appropriate place to troll and flame about various
> Python related issues?  I'm kind of mad about some Python stuff and I
> need a place to vent where people may or may not listen, but at at least
> respond.  Thought this would be a strange question, but I might as well
> start somewhere.

Trolls & flames are probably best sent to /dev/null




-- 
The meta-Turing test counts a thing as intelligent if it seeks to
devise and apply Turing tests to objects of its own creation.
		-- Lew Mammel, Jr.

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#32628

Am 02.11.2012 12:20, schrieb Jason Benjamin:
> Anybody know of the appropriate place to troll and flame about various
> Python related issues?  I'm kind of mad about some Python stuff and I
> need a place to vent where people may or may not listen, but at at least
> respond.  Thought this would be a strange question, but I might as well
> start somewhere.

Depending on the kind of responses you want I would try 
alt.comp.zoo.reptiles or maybe a PHP mailinglist. Alternatively, if you 
are willing to invest some real money, I would suggest a good Islay 
single malt or a gym membership. If health, money and time are of no 
importance to you, I heard of these things called girlfriends or 
boyfriends, these could be completely overhyped rumours though.

Uli

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#32630

:

On 2 November 2012 07:20, Jason Benjamin <hexusnexus@gmail.com> wrote:
> Anybody know of the appropriate place to troll and flame about various
> Python related issues?

I don't know about appropriate, but there'd be a certain amount of
poetic justice in using one of the alt.conspiracy.* or  alt.religion.*
newsgroups ...

 -[]z.

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#32664

On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 04:20:20 -0700, Jason Benjamin wrote:

> Anybody know of the appropriate place to troll and flame about various
> Python related issues?  I'm kind of mad about some Python stuff and I
> need a place to vent where people may or may not listen, but at at least
> respond.  Thought this would be a strange question, but I might as well
> start somewhere.

Thank you for your honesty, but trolling is not welcome.

However if you have actual issues about Python, either pro or con, and 
hope to have a serious, respectful dialog where both parties listen to 
each other, feel free to raise them here. Keep in mind three things:

- We've probably heard all your arguments a thousand times before. It's
  unlikely that you are either the first or the last person to notice
  that (e.g.) Python has significant indentation. So expect a certain
  amount of brusqueness.

- If your argument boils down to "Python isn't <insert language here>"
  we will not be sympathetic, and will probably sneer or laugh at you
  privately. And possibly publicly too.

- If you hope to convince the Python community to change <feature X>,
  we are constrained by backwards-compatibility issues, policies, and
  design decisions. Frequently there are (mis-)features that we simply
  have to live with, for good or ill.


-- 
Steven

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#32721

In article <509441cb$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>,
Steven D'Aprano  <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
>On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 04:20:20 -0700, Jason Benjamin wrote:
>>
>> Anybody know of the appropriate place to troll and flame about various
>> Python related issues?  I'm kind of mad about some Python stuff and I
>> need a place to vent where people may or may not listen, but at at least
>> respond.  Thought this would be a strange question, but I might as well
>> start somewhere.
>
>Thank you for your honesty, but trolling is not welcome.
>
>However if you have actual issues about Python, either pro or con, and 
>hope to have a serious, respectful dialog where both parties listen to 
>each other, feel free to raise them here. Keep in mind three things:
>
>- We've probably heard all your arguments a thousand times before. It's
>  unlikely that you are either the first or the last person to notice
>  that (e.g.) Python has significant indentation. So expect a certain
>  amount of brusqueness.
>
>- If your argument boils down to "Python isn't <insert language here>"
>  we will not be sympathetic, and will probably sneer or laugh at you
>  privately. And possibly publicly too.
>
>- If you hope to convince the Python community to change <feature X>,
>  we are constrained by backwards-compatibility issues, policies, and
>  design decisions. Frequently there are (mis-)features that we simply
>  have to live with, for good or ill.

You forgot the fourth point.
-- 
Aahz (aahz@pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"....Normal is what cuts off your sixth finger and your tail..."  --Siobhan

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#32722

On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 22:19:19 -0700, Aahz wrote:

> In article <509441cb$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>, Steven
> D'Aprano  <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
>>On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 04:20:20 -0700, Jason Benjamin wrote:
>>>
>>> Anybody know of the appropriate place to troll and flame about various
>>> Python related issues?  I'm kind of mad about some Python stuff and I
>>> need a place to vent where people may or may not listen, but at at
>>> least respond.  Thought this would be a strange question, but I might
>>> as well start somewhere.
>>
>>Thank you for your honesty, but trolling is not welcome.
>>
>>However if you have actual issues about Python, either pro or con, and
>>hope to have a serious, respectful dialog where both parties listen to
>>each other, feel free to raise them here. Keep in mind three things:

[snip three things]

> You forgot the fourth point.

Apparently so did you :)


-- 
Steven

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#32726

In article <5096202c$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>,
 Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:

> On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 22:19:19 -0700, Aahz wrote:
> 
> > In article <509441cb$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>, Steven
> > D'Aprano  <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
> >>On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 04:20:20 -0700, Jason Benjamin wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Anybody know of the appropriate place to troll and flame about various
> >>> Python related issues?  I'm kind of mad about some Python stuff and I
> >>> need a place to vent where people may or may not listen, but at at
> >>> least respond.  Thought this would be a strange question, but I might
> >>> as well start somewhere.
> >>
> >>Thank you for your honesty, but trolling is not welcome.
> >>
> >>However if you have actual issues about Python, either pro or con, and
> >>hope to have a serious, respectful dialog where both parties listen to
> >>each other, feel free to raise them here. Keep in mind three things:
> 
> [snip three things]
> 
> > You forgot the fourth point.
> 
> Apparently so did you :)

"Amongst the points are such diverse elements as..."

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