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datetime issue

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  datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-15 10:33 -0700
    Re: datetime issue Jason Friedman <jason@powerpull.net> - 2012-09-15 12:58 -0600
    Re: datetime issue Chris Rebert <clp2@rebertia.com> - 2012-09-15 12:05 -0700
      Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-15 12:26 -0700
        Re: datetime issue MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2012-09-15 21:28 +0100
          Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-15 22:15 -0700
            Re: datetime issue Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-09-16 01:53 -0400
              Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 00:51 -0700
                Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 01:18 -0700
                Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 01:18 -0700
              Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 00:51 -0700
              Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 01:25 -0700
                Re: datetime issue Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-16 09:53 +0000
                  Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 03:15 -0700
                    Re: datetime issue Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-16 10:49 +0000
                      Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 03:54 -0700
                        Re: datetime issue Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-16 11:34 +0000
                          Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 04:56 -0700
                            Re: datetime issue Dave Angel <d@davea.name> - 2012-09-16 15:31 -0400
                    Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2012-09-16 23:18 +1000
                      Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) pandora.koura@gmail.com - 2012-09-16 08:41 -0700
                        Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 11:57 -0400
                          Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) pandora.koura@gmail.com - 2012-09-16 09:06 -0700
                            Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 12:23 -0400
                            Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-16 16:54 +0000
                            Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-16 20:26 +0100
                            Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2012-09-16 12:32 -0400
                          Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) pandora.koura@gmail.com - 2012-09-16 09:06 -0700
                        Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-09-16 12:30 -0400
                        Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-16 16:52 +0000
                        Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Mayuresh Kathe <mayuresh@kathe.in> - 2012-09-17 01:09 +0530
                        Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Jamie Paul Griffin <jamie@kode5.net> - 2012-09-17 14:28 +0100
                      Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) pandora.koura@gmail.com - 2012-09-16 08:44 -0700
                        Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-17 01:57 +1000
                          Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) pandora.koura@gmail.com - 2012-09-16 09:02 -0700
                          Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) pandora.koura@gmail.com - 2012-09-16 09:02 -0700
                        Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2012-09-16 12:28 -0400
                        Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Robert Miles <robertmiles@teranews.com> - 2012-10-31 00:18 -0500
                      Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 17:47 -0700
                        Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-09-16 20:55 -0400
                          Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 18:14 -0700
                            Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Robert Miles <robertmiles@teranews.com> - 2012-10-31 00:39 -0500
                              Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Jamie Paul Griffin <jamie@kode5.net> - 2012-11-01 09:55 +0000
                                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-11-01 15:08 -0700
                                  Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-11-02 10:32 +1100
                                    Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-11-02 01:25 +0000
                                      Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-11-01 21:42 -0400
                                      Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups "Rhodri James" <rhodri@wildebst.demon.co.uk> - 2012-11-02 02:07 +0000
                                      Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-11-02 14:11 +0000
                                  Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Jamie Paul Griffin <jamie@kode5.net> - 2012-11-02 09:36 +0000
                                    Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-11-02 11:39 -0700
                                      Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-11-03 00:06 +0000
                                      Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Jamie Paul Griffin <jamie@kode5.net> - 2012-11-04 11:13 +0000
                                        Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-11-04 22:10 -0800
                                          Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-11-05 17:39 +1100
                                            Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-11-04 23:34 -0800
                                            Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-11-05 07:56 -0500
                                              Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-11-06 01:20 +1100
                                              Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-11-05 14:59 +0000
                                                RE: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com> - 2012-11-06 16:52 +0000
                                            Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-11-06 05:03 +0000
                                              Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-11-06 08:52 -0500
                                                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups GangGreene <GangGreene@example.com> - 2012-11-06 11:51 -0500
                                                  Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-11-06 23:14 +0000
                                                    Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups GangGreene <GangGreene@example.com> - 2012-11-06 19:16 -0500
                                                    Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-11-07 15:13 +0000
                                              Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2012-11-07 18:52 +1300
                                                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-11-07 01:04 -0500
                                                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-11-07 08:15 +0000
                                          Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-11-05 11:28 -0500
                                            Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-11-05 18:20 +0000
                                              Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-11-05 14:47 -0500
                                                Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-11-06 04:46 +0000
                                                  RE: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com> - 2012-11-06 17:16 +0000
                                                    Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-11-06 22:50 +0000
                                                      RE: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com> - 2012-11-06 23:08 +0000
                                                        Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-11-07 00:13 +0000
                                                          Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Hans Mulder <hansmu@xs4all.nl> - 2012-11-09 12:34 +0100
                                                            Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-11-10 06:57 +0000
                                                      RE: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Kushal Kumaran <kushal.kumaran+python@gmail.com> - 2012-11-07 15:08 +0530
                                                      Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Hans Mulder <hansmu@xs4all.nl> - 2012-11-09 10:49 +0100
                                                        Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-11-09 11:30 +0000
                                        Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-11-05 11:41 -0800
                                      Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Virgil Stokes <vs@it.uu.se> - 2012-11-04 17:52 +0100
                                    Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2012-11-03 07:44 +0000
                                      Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Dave Angel <d@davea.name> - 2012-11-03 10:24 -0400
                                        Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-11-03 16:18 +0000
                                      Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-11-04 03:05 +1100
                                  Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-11-02 11:42 -0600
                              Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-11-04 18:39 +0000
                              Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Thomas Rachel <nutznetz-0c1b6768-bfa9-48d5-a470-7603bd3aa915@spamschutz.glglgl.de> - 2012-11-09 12:02 +0100
                      Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Robert Miles <robertmiles@teranews.com> - 2012-09-21 00:22 -0500
                      Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-09-21 15:07 +0000
                        Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> - 2012-09-21 22:11 +0000
                        Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Hank Gay <hank.gay+eternal.september@gmail.com> - 2012-09-21 20:51 -0400
                          Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-09-22 00:13 -0400
                          Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue) Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-09-23 22:25 +0000
                      Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Robert Miles <robertmiles@teranews.com> - 2012-10-31 00:07 -0500
                        Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-10-31 12:32 -0700
                          Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-10-31 22:33 +0000
                            Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel@gmail.com> - 2012-10-31 23:58 +0000
                            Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups Jamie Paul Griffin <jamie@kode5.net> - 2012-11-01 09:44 +0000
                    Re: datetime issue Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-09-16 09:22 -0400
                      Re: datetime issue Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 23:32 +1000
                        Re: datetime issue Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-17 00:10 +1000
                        gc.get_objects() Matteo Boscolo <matteo.boscolo@boscolini.eu> - 2012-09-17 14:42 +0200
                          Re: gc.get_objects() Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-17 14:16 +0000
                            Re: gc.get_objects() Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-18 02:09 +1000
                            Re: gc.get_objects() Matteo Boscolo <matteo.boscolo@boscolini.eu> - 2012-09-17 19:23 +0200
                            Re: gc.get_objects() Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2012-09-17 17:43 +0000
                    Re: datetime issue Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-10-31 15:11 +0000
                      Re: datetime issue rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-10-31 12:35 -0700
                        Re: datetime issue Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-10-31 21:38 +0000
                          Re: datetime issue Robert Miles <robertmiles@teranews.com> - 2012-10-31 19:23 -0500
                            Re: datetime issue Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-11-01 00:36 +0000
                          Re: datetime issue rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-11-01 15:00 -0700
                            Re: datetime issue Jamie Paul Griffin <jamie@kode5.net> - 2012-11-02 09:57 +0000
                              Re: datetime issue rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-11-02 11:43 -0700
                        Re: datetime issue Robert Miles <robertmiles@teranews.com> - 2012-10-31 19:09 -0500
                        Re: datetime issue Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-11-01 12:09 +0000
                          Re: datetime issue rurpy@yahoo.com - 2012-11-01 15:28 -0700
                Re: datetime issue "Günther Dietrich" <gd.usenet@spamfence.net> - 2012-09-16 15:22 +0200
                  Re: datetime issue pandora.koura@gmail.com - 2012-09-16 08:43 -0700
                    Re: datetime issue Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-09-16 15:35 -0400
                Re: datetime issue MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2012-09-16 16:27 +0100
                  Re: datetime issue pandora.koura@gmail.com - 2012-09-16 08:40 -0700
                    Re: datetime issue Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-17 01:54 +1000
                    Re: datetime issue Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-16 20:23 +0100
                  Re: datetime issue pandora.koura@gmail.com - 2012-09-16 08:40 -0700
                Re: datetime issue Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-09-16 15:37 -0400
              Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 01:25 -0700
          Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-15 22:15 -0700
      Re: datetime issue Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2012-09-15 12:26 -0700

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#33006 — Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups

On 6/11/12 23:50:59, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Tue, 06 Nov 2012 17:16:44 +0000, Prasad, Ramit wrote:
> 
>>> To enter the newline, I typed Ctrl-Q to tell bash to treat the next
>>> character as a literal, and then typed Ctrl-J to get a newline.
>>
>> That sounds complicated, my version of bash lets me type
>> 'foo<enter>bar'<enter> for the same effect.
> 
> Well, I learned something new about bash.
> 
> On the other hand, the Ctrl-Q next-char-is-literal trick works for 
> entering control characters that otherwise don't have a key on the 
> keyboard.

How does that trick work?  If I need a control character
that is not available in my current keyboard mapping, how
would I enter such a character using this Ctrl-Q trick?


Just wondering,

-- HansM

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#33014 — Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups

On Fri, 09 Nov 2012 10:49:41 +0100, Hans Mulder wrote:

> On 6/11/12 23:50:59, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Tue, 06 Nov 2012 17:16:44 +0000, Prasad, Ramit wrote:
>> 
>>>> To enter the newline, I typed Ctrl-Q to tell bash to treat the next
>>>> character as a literal, and then typed Ctrl-J to get a newline.
>>>
>>> That sounds complicated, my version of bash lets me type
>>> 'foo<enter>bar'<enter> for the same effect.
>> 
>> Well, I learned something new about bash.
>> 
>> On the other hand, the Ctrl-Q next-char-is-literal trick works for
>> entering control characters that otherwise don't have a key on the
>> keyboard.
> 
> How does that trick work?  If I need a control character that is not
> available in my current keyboard mapping, how would I enter such a
> character using this Ctrl-Q trick?

This only works if you are running a Linux or Unix shell with the 
libreadline library installed. This should work on nearly any modern 
Linux system with the bash shell. I don't know about other shells.

On Mac OS, the relevant library is called libedit instead, and the 
details may be different.

On Windows, you're out of luck.

Anyway, using Linux and bash: at the shell, if I type Ctrl-U, that is 
interpreted by the shell to mean "clear the line currently being edited". 
So if I type Ctrl-U, the line is cleared.

But if I type Ctrl-Q first, then Ctrl-U, instead readline enters a 
literal ^U character (ASCII value 0x15 = NAK Negative AcKnowledgment) 
into the line editing buffer.

The same trick should work in the Python interactive editor:

>>> ord('^U')  # type Ctrl-Q Ctrl-U to get the ^U char
21


Note that this may or may not work in IDEs such as IDLE. Many IDEs do 
their own thing for editing, and there's no guarantee they will support 
this functionality.

One last comment: readline is very configurable, and the command to 
insert the next character could be just about anything. But Ctrl-Q is the 
standard.


-- 
Steven

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#32783 — Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups

On 11/04/2012 04:13 AM, Jamie Paul Griffin wrote:
> / rurpy@yahoo.com wrote on Fri  2.Nov'12 at 11:39:10 -0700 /
> 
>> (I also hope I haven't just been suckered by a troll attempt,
>> windows/unix is better then unix/windows being an age-old means of
>> trolling.)
> 
> No, i'm not a "troll". I was just adding my opinion to the thread, I
> assumed that was allowed. I didn't say UNIX is better than Windows,
> did I; I just feel that Windows is not -- for me anyway -- the most
> suitable plaform for learning about the science of computing and
> coding, etc... being a computer science student that's the view i
> have and share with those I learn with and from. Why must people be
> accused of trolling everytime they make a statement that conveys a
> preference over one platform or language, for example, than the
> other. Provoking someone by labeling them a troll or implying they
> might be is a bit childish really.

I deliberately worded my response to avoid calling you a 
troll but rather just suggested the possibility so a denial 
without all the indignation would be more appropriate.  
(And FWIW I agree that "troll" is often used here synonymously 
with "I disagree with you" but that is not how I used it.)

You should realize that a good way to start an endless argument 
and one that has a long history of being used by trolls is to 
assert that OS/language/whatever is "better" than some other 
one in an environment where there are also lots of users of the 
other one.  Substituting "serious" or any other value-laden, 
unsubstantiatable word for "better" is just a insignificant 
variation.

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#32737 — Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups

On 04-Nov-2012 12:13, Jamie Paul Griffin wrote:
> / rurpy@yahoo.com wrote on Fri  2.Nov'12 at 11:39:10 -0700 /
>
>> (I also hope I haven't just been suckered by a troll
>> attempt, windows/unix is better then unix/windows being
>> an age-old means of trolling.)
> No, i'm not a "troll". I was just adding my opinion to the thread, I assumed that was allowed. I didn't say UNIX is better than Windows, did I; I just feel that Windows is not -- for me anyway -- the most suitable plaform for learning about the science of computing and coding, etc... being a computer science student that's the view i have and share with those I learn with and from. Why must people be accused of trolling everytime they make a statement that conveys a preference over one platform or language, for example, than the other. Provoking someone by labeling them a troll or implying they might be is a bit childish really.
Well stated Jamie --- I agree. I don't believe that all members of this list 
label you as a troll.

--V

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#32681 — Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups

in 684220 20121102 093654 Jamie Paul Griffin <jamie@kode5.net> wrote:
>/ rurpy@yahoo.com wrote on Thu  1.Nov'12 at 15:08:26 -0700 /
>
>> On 11/01/2012 03:55 AM, Jamie Paul Griffin wrote:
>> > Anybody serious about programming should be using a form of
>> > UNIX/Linux if you ask me. It's inconceivable that these systems
>> > should be avoided if you're serious about Software Engineering and
>> > Computer Science, etc. For UNIX there are loads of decent news
>> > reading software and mail user agents to learn and use. slrn is a
>> > good one and point it at gmane.org as someone else pointed out. I
>> > can't even imagine using a browser or Google Groups, etc. now.
>
>> Are you saying that this group is only for "serious" programmers?
>
>I don't see where my comments suggested that this group is only for serious programmers. I simply believe that the UNIX platform, in whatever form, is better placed and designed for all sorts of computing and engineering projects. The history of UNIX speaks for itself. Many Universities that offer respected and credible science based degree programmes, namely engineering and computing programmes, strongly encourage students to become competent with UNIX systems. Windows in my opinion is really for those who use the internet on a casual basis or in a commercial environment where its staff are not necessarily computer literate and therefore need a platform that they can use which doesn't require them to learn more complex techniques and protocols. But, having said that, I'm not against Windows at all. I use it frequently and enjoy using it most of the time.
>
>> "serious" is also a matter of opinion.  I have some serious
>> programmer friends who maintain, in complete sincerity, that
>> serious programmers should not waste time on slow, script-kiddie
>> languages like Python, but should be developing their skills
>> with serious professional languages like Java, C#, etc.
>
>That is a narrow minded approach. different languages serve different purposes and it's down to the developer to use which language she needs to achieve what it is they've set out to do. Sometimes, basic shell scripts can be extremely powerful for certain tasks; other needs will require something different. I certainly wouldn't describe Python as a "script-kiddie" language. It's extremely powerful and modern. So there ;-P lol

Real programmers (can) write in assembler.

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#32697 — Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups

On 11/03/2012 03:44 AM, Bob Martin wrote:
> <snip>
>>
> Real programmers (can) write in assembler.

Real programmers can (and have) write in hex/octal or binary.  For my
first project at a permanent job, I had to write code for a machine with
no assembler.  Near the end of the project, I wrote a text editor and
(cross) assembler for it, because maintaining the source with pen/ink
was getting tedious.

For the DOS world, real programmers have written a "complete"  *.com 
program using only echo.

-- 

DaveA

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#32701 — Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups

On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 10:24:15 -0400, Dave Angel wrote:

> For the DOS world, real programmers have written a "complete"  *.com
> program using only echo.

Echo? Wimps. Real programmers write their code directly on the surface of 
the hard drive using only a magnetised needle.


-- 
Steven

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#32700 — Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups

On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 1:24 AM, Dave Angel <d@davea.name> wrote:
> For the DOS world, real programmers have written a "complete"  *.com
> program using only echo.

Only as an exercise. It was satisfying to prove to myself that I could
do it, but pretty useless. Normally I used DEBUG.EXE to build my code
- it has a mini-assembler in it. Incidentally, I used debug as a full
assembler, with a bit of a REXX harness around it - used that to write
OS/2 code in pure assembly, without the bother of, yaknow, getting an
actual assembler. Suddenly things got WAY easier once I got hold of
nasm...

ChrisA

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#32643 — Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups

On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 3:36 AM, Jamie Paul Griffin <jamie@kode5.net> wrote:
> / rurpy@yahoo.com wrote on Thu  1.Nov'12 at 15:08:26 -0700 /
>
>> On 11/01/2012 03:55 AM, Jamie Paul Griffin wrote:
>> > Anybody serious about programming should be using a form of
>> > UNIX/Linux if you ask me. It's inconceivable that these systems
>> > should be avoided if you're serious about Software Engineering and
>> > Computer Science, etc. For UNIX there are loads of decent news
>> > reading software and mail user agents to learn and use. slrn is a
>> > good one and point it at gmane.org as someone else pointed out. I
>> > can't even imagine using a browser or Google Groups, etc. now.
>
>> Are you saying that this group is only for "serious" programmers?
>
> I don't see where my comments suggested that this group is only for serious programmers. I simply believe that the UNIX platform, in whatever form, is better placed and designed for all sorts of computing and engineering projects. The history of UNIX speaks for itself. Many Universities that offer respected and credible science based degree programmes, namely engineering and computing programmes, strongly encourage students to become competent with UNIX systems. Windows in my opinion is really for those who use the internet on a casual basis or in a commercial environment where its staff are not necessarily computer literate and therefore need a platform that they can use which doesn't require them to learn more complex techniques and protocols. But, having said that, I'm not against Windows at all. I use it frequently and enjoy using it most of the time.

I am comfortable with both Windows and Unix systems, and I do not find
that either environment is particularly more effective for software
engineering or helps me to be more productive than the other.  My job
has me developing Windows software, so I use Windows at work since at
the very least I require it for testing and debugging.  I could use
virtualization to run Unix as well, and I have known some who do, but
my philosophy is: why waste time dealing with two distinct
environments where only one is required?

Cheers,
Ian

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#32741 — Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups

On 01/11/2012 09:55, Jamie Paul Griffin wrote:
> / Robert Miles wrote on Wed 31.Oct'12 at  0:39:02 -0500 /
>
>> For those of you running Linux:  You may want to look into whether
>> NoCeM is compatible with your newsreader and your version of Linux.
>> It checks newsgroups news.lists.filters and alt.nocem.misc for lists
>> of spam posts, and will automatically hide them for you.  Not available
>> for other operating systems, though, except possibly Unix.
>
> Anybody serious about programming should be using a form of UNIX/Linux if you ask me. It's inconceivable that these systems should be avoided if you're serious about Software Engineering and Computer Science, etc. For UNIX there are loads of decent news reading software and mail user agents to learn and use. slrn is a good one and point it at gmane.org as someone else pointed out. I can't even imagine using a browser or Google Groups, etc. now.
>

Anybody serious about programming should know that an OS is a 
combination of the hardware and software.  Can the *Nix variants now do 
proper clustering or are they still decades behind VMS?  Never used the 
other main/mini frame systems myself but perhaps they are still vastly 
superior to this highly overrated *Nix crap.

-- 
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence.

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#33013 — Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups

Am 31.10.2012 06:39 schrieb Robert Miles:

> For those of you running Linux:  You may want to look into whether
> NoCeM is compatible with your newsreader and your version of Linux.

This sounds as if it was intrinsically impossible to evaluate NoCeMs in 
Windows.

If someone writes a software for it, it can be run wherever desired.


Thomas

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#29591 — Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups

On 9/16/2012 8:18 AM, Ben Finney wrote:
> Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Iam sorry i didnt do that on purpose and i dont know how this is done.
>>
>> Iam positng via google groups using chrome, thats all i know.
>
> It is becoming quite clear that some change has happened recently to
> Google Groups that makes posts coming from there rather more obnoxious
> than before. And there doesn't seem to be much its users can do except
> use something else.
>
> Using Google Groups for posting to Usenet has been a bad idea for a long
> time, but now it just seems to be a sure recipe for annoying the rest of
> us. Again, not something you have much control over, except to stop
> using Google Groups.

Could this mean that Google wants all the spam posted through Google
Groups to look obnoxious to the rest of Usenet that the spammers will go 
elsewhere?

Robert Miles

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#29645 — Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue)

On 2012-09-16, Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> ???????????????? ???????????? <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Iam sorry i didnt do that on purpose and i dont know how this is done.
>>
>> Iam positng via google groups using chrome, thats all i know.
>
> It is becoming quite clear that some change has happened recently to
> Google Groups that makes posts coming from there rather more obnoxious
> than before.

Well, that's certainly something of an accomplishment.  I've become
somewhat suspicious that Google Groups is Google's deliberate attempt
to kill off Usenet and non-Google-controlled mailing lists.  Nothing
can be that bad by accident.  Except perhaps certain Microsoft
products.... make that most Microsoft products.

> And there doesn't seem to be much its users can do except
> use something else.
>
> Using Google Groups for posting to Usenet has been a bad idea for a long
> time, but now it just seems to be a sure recipe for annoying the rest of
> us. Again, not something you have much control over, except to stop
> using Google Groups.

I told my news client years ago to filter out anything posted from
Google Groups -- and I know I'm not alone.  If one wants the best
chance of getting a question answered, using something other than
Google Groups is indeed a good idea.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! The PILLSBURY DOUGHBOY
                                  at               is CRYING for an END to
                              gmail.com            BURT REYNOLDS movies!!

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#29690 — Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue)

On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 15:07:09 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:

> I told my news client years ago to filter out anything posted from
> Google Groups -- and I know I'm not alone.  If one wants the best chance
> of getting a question answered, using something other than Google Groups
> is indeed a good idea.

+1

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#29701 — Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue)

On 2012-09-21 15:07:09 +0000, Grant Edwards said:
> 
> I told my news client years ago to filter out anything posted from
> Google Groups -- and I know I'm not alone.  If one wants the best
> chance of getting a question answered, using something other than
> Google Groups is indeed a good idea.

What's that filter look like?

--Hank

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#29718 — Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue)

On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 20:51:27 -0400, Hank Gay
<hank.gay+eternal.september@gmail.com> declaimed the following in
gmane.comp.python.general:

> On 2012-09-21 15:07:09 +0000, Grant Edwards said:
> > 
> > I told my news client years ago to filter out anything posted from
> > Google Groups -- and I know I'm not alone.  If one wants the best
> > chance of getting a question answered, using something other than
> > Google Groups is indeed a good idea.
> 
> What's that filter look like?
>

	That would depend upon ones news client, would it not?

	My biggest complaint with Agent is that it can only filter on "From"
and "Subject" for NNTP, but can filter on lots of headers for POP3.

	As a result, I could easily filter against posters using gmail, as
that is in their "From" header. I'm unable to filter on a
googlegroups.com message ID.

-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
        wlfraed@ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

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#29864 — Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups (was: datetime issue)

On 2012-09-22, Hank Gay <hank.gay+eternal.september@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2012-09-21 15:07:09 +0000, Grant Edwards said:
>> 
>> I told my news client years ago to filter out anything posted from
>> Google Groups -- and I know I'm not alone.  If one wants the best
>> chance of getting a question answered, using something other than
>> Google Groups is indeed a good idea.
>
> What's that filter look like?

Score:: =-9999
 Message-ID: .*googlegroups.com

-- 
Grant

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#32516 — Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups

On 9/16/2012 8:18 AM, Ben Finney wrote:
> Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Iam sorry i didnt do that on purpose and i dont know how this is done.
>>
>> Iam positng via google groups using chrome, thats all i know.
>
> It is becoming quite clear that some change has happened recently to
> Google Groups that makes posts coming from there rather more obnoxious
> than before. And there doesn't seem to be much its users can do except
> use something else.

You're probably referring to their change in the way they handle
end-of-lines, which is now incompatible with most newsreaders,
especially with multiple levels of quoting.

The incompatibility tends to insert a blank line after every line.
With multiple levels of quoting, this gives blank line groups that
often roughly double in size for every level of quoting.

Robert Miles

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#32531 — Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups

On 10/30/2012 11:07 PM, Robert Miles wrote:> On 9/16/2012 8:18 AM, Ben Finney wrote:
>> Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Iam sorry i didnt do that on purpose and i dont know how this is done.
>>>
>>> Iam positng via google groups using chrome, thats all i know.
>>
>> It is becoming quite clear that some change has happened recently to
>> Google Groups that makes posts coming from there rather more obnoxious
>> than before. And there doesn't seem to be much its users can do except
>> use something else.

You (BF) are wrong that there "doesn't seem to be much its users
can do..." and I explained why previously.  However, since you have
advocated killfiling anyone using GG (which I do) you probably didn't
see my post.  If you choose intentional ignorance that is your choice
but you do a disservice to the community by advocating that others
do the same.

(Officer, I don't deserve this ticket because I couldn't see the 
traffic signal was red; I had my eyes closed. :-)

> You're probably referring to their change in the way they handle
> end-of-lines, which is now incompatible with most newsreaders,
> especially with multiple levels of quoting.

It's a minor pain to fix this when posting, but

1. It is fixable (and previous post of mine gave a couple ways)
2. The double spacing is obvious in Google's compose window
 so if one posts anyway, it is a matter of laziness.

> The incompatibility tends to insert a blank line after every line.
> With multiple levels of quoting, this gives blank line groups that
> often roughly double in size for every level of quoting.
> 
> Robert Miles

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#32536 — Re: Obnoxious postings from Google Groups

On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 12:32:57 -0700, rurpy wrote:

[...]
>> You're probably referring to their change in the way they handle
>> end-of-lines, which is now incompatible with most newsreaders,
>> especially with multiple levels of quoting.
> 
> It's a minor pain to fix this when posting, but
> 
> 1. It is fixable (and previous post of mine gave a couple ways) 2. The
> double spacing is obvious in Google's compose window
>  so if one posts anyway, it is a matter of laziness.

I don't killfile merely for posting from Gmail or Google Groups, but 
regarding your second point, it has seemed to me for some years now that 
Gmail is the new Hotmail, which was the new AOL. Whenever there is an 
inane, lazy, mind-numbingly stupid question or post, chances are 
extremely high that the sender has a Gmail address.



-- 
Steven

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