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Sudden doubling of nearly all messages

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  Sudden doubling of nearly all messages Dave Angel <d@davea.name> - 2012-07-21 06:48 -0400
    Re: Sudden doubling of nearly all messages "Colin J. Williams" <cjw@ncf.ca> - 2012-07-21 07:27 -0400
    Re: Sudden doubling of nearly all messages Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-07-21 11:16 -0700
      Re: Sudden doubling of nearly all messages Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-07-22 04:25 +1000
        Re: Sudden doubling of nearly all messages Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-07-22 00:20 +0000
          Re: Sudden doubling of nearly all messages Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-07-22 10:38 +1000
      Re: Sudden doubling of nearly all messages Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2012-07-21 19:07 -0400
        Re: Sudden doubling of nearly all messages Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-07-22 00:27 +0000
      Re: Sudden doubling of nearly all messages Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-07-22 09:16 +1000
        Re: Sudden doubling of nearly all messages Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-07-21 18:33 -0700
        Re: Sudden doubling of nearly all messages Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-07-21 18:33 -0700
          Re: Sudden doubling of nearly all messages Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-07-22 11:52 +1000
      Re: Sudden doubling of nearly all messages Rotwang <sg552@hotmail.co.uk> - 2012-07-22 16:12 +0100
    Re: Sudden doubling of nearly all messages Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-07-21 11:16 -0700
    Re: Sudden doubling of nearly all messages Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-07-22 00:13 +0000
      Re: Sudden doubling of nearly all messages Dave Angel <d@davea.name> - 2012-07-21 20:33 -0400

#25737 — Sudden doubling of nearly all messages

Has anybody else noticed the sudden double-posting of nearly all
messages in the python mailing list?

Previously, I've seen some messages double posted, and it was nearly
always a newbie, presumably posting via some low-end gateway.  But now
i'm noticing nearly every message appears twice, identical datestamps,
and usually one message considered a reply to the other.

Deleting these locally is not only a pain, but if I get the wrong one,
it messes up the threading.

I'm using Thunderbird 14.0 on Linux 11.04, with mail configured for
non-digest mode.  I read the messages in threaded mode.

Probably related, I've had a serious spate of messages are obvious Re:
types, but not threaded to the original set.  I'm guessing because it's
because I earlier deleted one of a pair.

-- 

DaveA

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#25741

On 21/07/2012 6:48 AM, Dave Angel wrote:
> Has anybody else noticed the sudden double-posting of nearly all
> messages in the python mailing list?
>

No.

Colin W.

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#25755

On Saturday, July 21, 2012 5:48:29 AM UTC-5, Dave Angel wrote:
> Has anybody else noticed the sudden double-posting of nearly all
> messages in the python mailing list?
> 
> Previously, I've seen some messages double posted, and it was nearly
> always a newbie, presumably posting via some low-end gateway.  But now
> i'm noticing nearly every message appears twice, identical datestamps,
> and usually one message considered a reply to the other.

It's due to the new Google Groups interface. They started forcing everyone to use the new buggy version about a week ago EVEN THOUGH the old interface is just fine. Another bug: If you look at the text i quoted you will see HTML character references. Usually i clean the text before posting but sometimes i forget.

Google is starting to SUCK!

You know, i really went out of my way to support Google for many years even though i knew they were spying on me. But since they were giving me "interesting software" for free, i did not mind so much. But now they have dropped great software and refuse to maintain the software they do have.

Their online docs were a great idea, but have you ever tried to use the docs interface for anything serious? S-U-C-K-S! 

Seriously, i can see Google going the way of yahoo soon. Heck, i even use Bing as my search engine now. I MUST be a disgruntled customer if i am using the search engine of the evil empire!

It was a nice run Google. We had good times and bad times. A few smiles and cries. 

LMBTFY

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#25758

On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 4:16 AM, Rick Johnson
<rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> wrote:
> It was a nice run Google. We had good times and bad times. A few smiles and cries.
>
> LMBTFY

So, what... you reckon Microsoft is going to be the paragon of
righteousness against the squalor of Google's information-grubbing
tactics? Fascinating.

Oh, and make sure you get yourself a new email address Rick, can't
have you connected with *Google* mail now can we.

Use whichever service you like, but don't seriously expect anything
that you don't pay money for to be perfectly featured AND not spy on
you.

ChrisA

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#25780

On Sun, 22 Jul 2012 04:25:21 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:

> Use whichever service you like, but don't seriously expect anything that
> you don't pay money for to be perfectly featured AND not spy on you.


http://duckduckgo.com/privacy.html



-- 
Steven

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#25784

On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 10:20 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Jul 2012 04:25:21 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> Use whichever service you like, but don't seriously expect anything that
>> you don't pay money for to be perfectly featured AND not spy on you.
>
> http://duckduckgo.com/privacy.html

They go for privacy at the cost of everything else, and that's fine.
But you still can't depend on its featureset. With a mailing list /
newsgroup reader, there's a whole lot of little things that you'd
probably like, but you can't depend on it; such things cost money, and
most companies that give you stuff that cost money without charging
you money are going to be selling ad space, ergo the temptation to
harvest information about you.

But as I said, I don't care. Google doesn't get any information about
me that I'm not willing for them to get. Let 'em show me ads. And
sometimes they're even useful!

ChrisA

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#25775

On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 4:16 AM, Rick Johnson
> <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> wrote:
>> It was a nice run Google. We had good times and bad times. A few smiles and cries.
>>
>> LMBTFY
>
> So, what... you reckon Microsoft is going to be the paragon of
> righteousness against the squalor of Google's information-grubbing
> tactics? Fascinating.

It's happened before. The example that made me really realize this was
when my university, the University of Toronto, was considering both
Microsoft and Google as mail providers for students last year. They
chose Microsoft, to a mass of student responses to the effect of "but
Microsoft is Evil!". It turns out that they ended up choosing
Microsoft because they gave stronger privacy guarantees.

People hold grudges against MS too strongly, and they believe too much
in Google's righteousness. They are both big companies that don't
necessarily care about you.

-- Devin

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#25781

On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 19:07:28 -0400, Devin Jeanpierre wrote:


> People hold grudges against MS too strongly, and they believe too much
> in Google's righteousness. They are both big companies that don't
> necessarily care about you.

+10000

Google's motto "Don't be evil" should really be, "Don't be evil unless 
there's a lot of money in it".

I personally know a couple of people working for Google, and their famed 
geek-friendly work environment is not all it is cracked up to be either.

I think the IT world is better now than it was 10 years ago, because an 
industry dominated by three big, competing entities who hate each other 
(Microsoft, Apple, Google) is better than a monopoly of one (Microsoft). 
But we, the users and consumers, should never make the mistake of 
thinking that *any* of the three have our best interests at heart.


-- 
Steven

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#25777

On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 9:07 AM, Devin Jeanpierre
<jeanpierreda@gmail.com> wrote:
> People hold grudges against MS too strongly, and they believe too much
> in Google's righteousness. They are both big companies that don't
> necessarily care about you.

Just to clarify, I'm not advocating the "Google is perfect" stance
either; in both cases you're looking at a huge company and a
zero-dollar service. That means you're completely at their mercy in
terms of feature support, and you're most likely going to have your
information harvested as a means of spamming you with ads.

And as you can see from the headers, I use gmail too. I'm fully aware
that they're scanning my emails to target the ads I see; it doesn't
bother me. I have another email address at a domain that I own, with
the mail server being an actual computer that I own, and Google's
welcome to read through all my mailing list posts.

It'd be no different if python.org provided their own free-to-use
webmail service. I'd be assuming you guys are targeting me with ads,
and it wouldn't bother me. :)

ChrisA

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#25787

On Saturday, July 21, 2012 6:16:24 PM UTC-5, Chris Angelico wrote:

> Just to clarify, I'm not advocating the 
[...snip...]

Well. Well. Backpedaling AND brown-nosing in a single post. Nice!

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#25788

On Saturday, July 21, 2012 6:16:24 PM UTC-5, Chris Angelico wrote:

> Just to clarify, I'm not advocating the 
[...snip...]

Well. Well. Backpedaling AND brown-nosing in a single post. Nice!

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#25789

On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Rick Johnson
<rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, July 21, 2012 6:16:24 PM UTC-5, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> Just to clarify, I'm not advocating the
> [...snip...]
>
> Well. Well. Backpedaling AND brown-nosing in a single post. Nice!

Absolutely. Haven't you noticed that I'm one of those mad people who
goes everywhere in reverse? My backpedal is saying the exact same
thing as my frontpedal!

Curiouser and curiouser...

ChrisA

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#25810

On 21/07/2012 19:16, Rick Johnson wrote:
> [...]
>
> It's due to the new Google Groups interface. They started forcing everyone to use the new buggy version about a week ago EVEN THOUGH the old interface is just fine.

I disagree - the old interface was dreadful and needed fixing.

The new one is much worse, obviously.

-- 
I have made a thing that superficially resembles music:

http://soundcloud.com/eroneity/we-berated-our-own-crapiness

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#25756

On Saturday, July 21, 2012 5:48:29 AM UTC-5, Dave Angel wrote:
> Has anybody else noticed the sudden double-posting of nearly all
> messages in the python mailing list?
> 
> Previously, I've seen some messages double posted, and it was nearly
> always a newbie, presumably posting via some low-end gateway.  But now
> i'm noticing nearly every message appears twice, identical datestamps,
> and usually one message considered a reply to the other.

It's due to the new Google Groups interface. They started forcing everyone to use the new buggy version about a week ago EVEN THOUGH the old interface is just fine. Another bug: If you look at the text i quoted you will see HTML character references. Usually i clean the text before posting but sometimes i forget.

Google is starting to SUCK!

You know, i really went out of my way to support Google for many years even though i knew they were spying on me. But since they were giving me "interesting software" for free, i did not mind so much. But now they have dropped great software and refuse to maintain the software they do have.

Their online docs were a great idea, but have you ever tried to use the docs interface for anything serious? S-U-C-K-S! 

Seriously, i can see Google going the way of yahoo soon. Heck, i even use Bing as my search engine now. I MUST be a disgruntled customer if i am using the search engine of the evil empire!

It was a nice run Google. We had good times and bad times. A few smiles and cries. 

LMBTFY

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#25779

On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 06:48:29 -0400, Dave Angel wrote:

> Has anybody else noticed the sudden double-posting of nearly all
> messages in the python mailing list?

No I have not.

It sounds like a problem with your Usenet provider. Remember that this 
news group is a mirror of the mailing list python-list@python.org so you 
can check the mail archives to see if the problem is there. It is also 
mirrored by gmane (I *think* it is gmane.comp.python.general).


> Previously, I've seen some messages double posted, and it was nearly
> always a newbie, presumably posting via some low-end gateway.

Some people also annoyingly send to both the newsgroup *and* the mailing 
list, not realising -- or not caring -- that they are the same thing.



-- 
Steven

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#25783

On 07/21/2012 08:13 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 06:48:29 -0400, Dave Angel wrote:
>
>> Has anybody else noticed the sudden double-posting of nearly all
>> messages in the python mailing list?
> No I have not.
>
> It sounds like a problem with your Usenet provider. Remember that this 
> news group is a mirror of the mailing list python-list@python.org so you 
> can check the mail archives to see if the problem is there. It is also 
> mirrored by gmane (I *think* it is gmane.comp.python.general).
>

I don't have a usenet provider, I use the straight email, collected as
regular email, by Thunderbird.  I thought for a while that perhaps my
imap provider had hiccupped, and just reloaded all the same messages. 
But it happened in several sessions, and for the messages I checked, the
emails were *NOT* identical.

>> Previously, I've seen some messages double posted, and it was nearly
>> always a newbie, presumably posting via some low-end gateway.
> Some people also annoyingly send to both the newsgroup *and* the mailing 
> list, not realising -- or not caring -- that they are the same thing.
>
>
>
That may be because many other messages (including this one from you)
list the newsgroup in the headers, so a reply-all generates it as one of
the recipients.  The only reason I don't fall into that trap is that I
have Thunderbird configured to *not* send to any newsgroup.



-- 

DaveA

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