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I hate you all

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  I hate you all terminatorul@gmail.com - 2013-04-05 14:41 -0700
    Re: I hate you all Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 08:53 +1100
    Re: I hate you all John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2013-04-05 21:55 +0000
      Re: I hate you all terminatorul@gmail.com - 2013-04-05 15:04 -0700
        Re: I hate you all Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 17:28 -0500
        Re: I hate you all Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 16:42 -0600
          Re: I hate you all terminatorul@gmail.com - 2013-04-05 17:22 -0700
            Re: I hate you all Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 11:35 +1100
              Re: I hate you all Timothy Madden <terminatorul@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 08:07 +0300
                Re: I hate you all Benjamin Kaplan <benjamin.kaplan@case.edu> - 2013-04-05 22:28 -0700
                Re: I hate you all Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 23:53 -0600
                  Re: I hate you all Timothy Madden <terminatorul@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 09:56 +0300
                    Re: I hate you all Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 11:17 +0100
                      Re: I hate you all Timothy Madden <terminatorul@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 17:22 +0300
                        Re: I hate you all Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-04-06 15:30 +0000
                        Re: I hate you all Roland Koebler <r.koebler@yahoo.de> - 2013-04-08 00:52 +0200
                Re: I hate you all Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 23:59 -0600
                  Re: I hate you all Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-06 06:19 +0000
                Re: I hate you all Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 23:49 -0600
            Re: I hate you all Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 19:50 -0500
            Re: I hate you all Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-06 02:07 +0000
            Re: I hate you all Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 21:53 -0600
              Re: I hate you all Timothy Madden <terminatorul@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 08:36 +0300
                Re: I hate you all Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 16:44 +1100
                Re: I hate you all Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 23:58 -0600
                  Re: I hate you all Timothy Madden <terminatorul@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 10:07 +0300
                Re: I hate you all Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-04-05 23:00 -0700
                  Re: I hate you all Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-04-06 15:37 +0000
                    Re: I hate you all Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-04-06 11:49 -0400
                Re: I hate you all Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-06 06:55 +0000
                Re: I hate you all Larry Hudson <orgnut@yahoo.com> - 2013-04-06 13:17 -0700
                  Re: I hate you all Timothy Madden <terminatorul@gmail.com> - 2013-04-07 14:37 +0300
              Re: I hate you all Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2013-04-06 14:52 +0100
                Re: I hate you all Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-07 01:20 +1100
                  Re: I hate you all Timothy Madden <terminatorul@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 17:37 +0300
                  Re: I hate you all Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-04-06 11:01 -0400
                    Re: I hate you all Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-04-06 15:15 +0000
                      Re: I hate you all Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-04-06 15:41 +0000
                        Re: I hate you all rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 09:00 -0700
                      Re: I hate you all Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-04-06 11:59 -0400
                        Re: I hate you all Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-04-06 18:48 +0000
                    Re: I hate you all rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 08:31 -0700
                    Re: I hate you all Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-07 07:29 +1000
                    Re: I hate you all Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-07 01:38 +0000
                  Re: I hate you all Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-07 01:30 +0000
                    Re: I hate you all Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-04-06 22:15 -0400
                    Re: I hate you all Jason Friedman <jsf80238@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 20:42 -0600
                    Re: I hate you all Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2013-04-08 19:43 +0100
                      Re: I hate you all Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-04-08 19:48 +0000
                        Re: I hate you all Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> - 2013-04-08 21:25 +0000
                          Re: I hate you all Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-04-08 21:29 +0000
                            Re: I hate you all Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-09 08:00 +1000
                              Re: I hate you all Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> - 2013-04-08 22:51 +0000
                                Re: I hate you all Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-09 08:57 +1000
                                Re: I hate you all Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-04-09 09:33 +0100
                                  Re: I hate you all Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-04-09 13:39 +0000
                                    Re: I hate you all Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2013-04-09 09:17 -0500
                                    Re: I hate you all Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-10 00:20 +1000
                                    Re: I hate you all Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-04-09 16:51 +0100
                                      Re: I hate you all Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> - 2013-04-09 21:09 +0000
                                        Re: I hate you all Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-04-09 23:09 +0100
                                          Re: I hate you all Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-09 23:21 +0000
                                            Re: I hate you all Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-10 09:28 +1000
                                              Re: I hate you all Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> - 2013-04-09 23:50 +0000
                                                Re: I hate you all Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-10 10:31 +1000
                                                  Re: I hate you all Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-10 02:00 +0000
                                                    Re: I hate you all Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-04-10 12:14 +1000
                                            Re: I hate you all Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-04-10 00:39 +0100
                                            Re: I hate you all Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-04-10 00:41 +0100
                                      Re: I hate you all Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-04-09 21:43 +0000
                      Re: I hate you all Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-09 02:51 +0000
                        Re: I hate you all rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-04-08 21:06 -0700
                          Re: I hate you all rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-04-08 21:52 -0700
                          Re: I hate you all Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-04-09 05:19 +0000
            Re: I hate you all "Günther Dietrich" <gd.usenet@spamfence.net> - 2013-04-06 14:55 +0200
          Re: I hate you all terminatorul@gmail.com - 2013-04-05 17:22 -0700
        Re: I hate you all Isaac To <isaac.to@gmail.com> - 2013-04-06 06:35 +0800
        Re: I hate you all Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-04-05 17:00 -0600
    Re: I hate you all Dylan Evans <dylan@dje.me> - 2013-04-06 14:28 +1000
      Re: I hate you all terminatorul@gmail.com - 2013-04-05 22:13 -0700
        Re: I hate you all Dylan Evans <dylan@dje.me> - 2013-04-07 13:00 +1000
          Re: I hate you all Timothy Madden <terminatorul@gmail.com> - 2013-04-07 14:44 +0300
            Re: I hate you all Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-04-07 11:12 -0700
              Re: I hate you all Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-04-07 14:33 -0400
      Re: I hate you all terminatorul@gmail.com - 2013-04-05 22:13 -0700
    Re: I hate you all Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-04-06 15:27 +0000
      Re: I hate you all Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-04-06 11:58 -0400
    Re: I hate you all Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-04-07 19:25 +0100

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#42931

On 2013-04-06, Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> wrote:
> In article <asasgoFj03gU1@mid.individual.net>,
>  Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> wrote:
>  
>> Bjarne Stroustrup likes it
>
> This is supposed to impress me?

Hehe. No!  But he's got enough clout to give the notion some
traction.

> Yeah, most of the books I recall that used this were C++ books.

Yes, that would be why I bet.

-- 
Neil Cerutti

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#42922

On Apr 6, 8:01 pm, Roy Smith <r...@panix.com> wrote:
> What makes sense for a word processor and what makes sense for a
> programming language are two very different things.
>
> Word processors are almost always working with blocks of running text,
> set in proportional fonts, often with multiple font sizes and styles.
> It is usually assumed that line breaks are ephemeral, i.e. as the text
> gets edited and reformatted, lines will re-flow.
>
> Program text is almost always(*) displayed in a fixed-width font.  No
> font information is carried along with the program text at all; it is
> assumed the reader will pick a font and size of their own preference,
> with the only requirement being that it's monospaced.
>
> (*) There was a fad about 10 or 15 years ago to print code samples in
> books in proportional fonts.  Prentice-Hall seemed to be particularly
> guilty of this.  Fortunately, common sense prevailed and everybody has
> gone back to monotype.

Hmm…
One of my favourite books on programming is Intro to functional
programming by Bird and Wadler (1st edition Prentice Hall).
I always knew that part of why I liked the book was the beautifully
typeset code.
Now I know how this choice dates me!!
[It was published in 1988; I used it to teach from '89 onwards]

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#42951

On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 2:01 AM, Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> wrote:
> In article <mailman.200.1365258042.3114.python-list@python.org>,
>  Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 12:52 AM, Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> > Historically, software and hardware which assigns a meaning to a tab
>> > character has come in two flavours:
>> >
>> > 1. Tab stops are every 8 columns; this cannot be changed.
>> > 2. Tab stops are configurable, defaulting to every 8 columns.
>>
>> 3. Tab stops are measured in something other than characters.
>>
>> With variable-width fonts, it's illogical to set tab stops in
>> characters. DeScribe Word Processor defined them in centimeters, way
>> back in the early... well, I didn't meet it till the 90s, but I don't
>> know how long it had been around before that.
>
> What makes sense for a word processor and what makes sense for a
> programming language are two very different things.

Yes. I was just completing the set, since the heading didn't specify
*for programming languages*.

ChrisA

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#42962

On Sat, 06 Apr 2013 11:01:04 -0400, Roy Smith wrote:

> In article <mailman.200.1365258042.3114.python-list@python.org>,
>  Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 12:52 AM, Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> > Historically, software and hardware which assigns a meaning to a tab
>> > character has come in two flavours:
>> >
>> > 1. Tab stops are every 8 columns; this cannot be changed. 2. Tab
>> > stops are configurable, defaulting to every 8 columns.
>> 
>> 3. Tab stops are measured in something other than characters.
>> 
>> With variable-width fonts, it's illogical to set tab stops in
>> characters. DeScribe Word Processor defined them in centimeters, way
>> back in the early... well, I didn't meet it till the 90s, but I don't
>> know how long it had been around before that.
> 
> What makes sense for a word processor and what makes sense for a
> programming language are two very different things.
> 
> Word processors are almost always working with blocks of running text,
> set in proportional fonts, often with multiple font sizes and styles. It
> is usually assumed that line breaks are ephemeral, i.e. as the text gets
> edited and reformatted, lines will re-flow.

Word processors mostly use tabs for aligning text, e.g. in tables and 
lists. Exactly the same thing that tabs are used for in source code.

Large blocks of running text are irrelevant, because tabs are rarely used 
inside large blocks of running text.


> Program text is almost always(*) displayed in a fixed-width font.  No
> font information is carried along with the program text at all; it is
> assumed the reader will pick a font and size of their own preference,

And tab settings.

If you're going to complain that changing the tab settings will break the 
layout of the source code, so will changing the font and size.



-- 
Steven

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#42961

On Sun, 07 Apr 2013 01:20:32 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 12:52 AM, Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> Historically, software and hardware which assigns a meaning to a tab
>> character has come in two flavours:
>>
>> 1. Tab stops are every 8 columns; this cannot be changed. 2. Tab stops
>> are configurable, defaulting to every 8 columns.
> 
> 3. Tab stops are measured in something other than characters.
> 
> With variable-width fonts, it's illogical to set tab stops in
> characters. DeScribe Word Processor defined them in centimeters, way
> back in the early... well, I didn't meet it till the 90s, but I don't
> know how long it had been around before that.


Am I the only one here who has used a typewriter?

Tab stops were set manually, to a physical distance into the page, using 
a mechanical stop. This long predates the "rule" that tab stops are every 
8 characters.

If your editor doesn't support setting tab stops to at least single pixel 
resolution, it's not supporting tabs, it's supporting something else that 
it merely calls "tabs".



-- 
Steven

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#42967

In article <5160cc44$0$29995$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>,
 Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:

> On Sun, 07 Apr 2013 01:20:32 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 12:52 AM, Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >> Historically, software and hardware which assigns a meaning to a tab
> >> character has come in two flavours:
> >>
> >> 1. Tab stops are every 8 columns; this cannot be changed. 2. Tab stops
> >> are configurable, defaulting to every 8 columns.
> > 
> > 3. Tab stops are measured in something other than characters.
> > 
> > With variable-width fonts, it's illogical to set tab stops in
> > characters. DeScribe Word Processor defined them in centimeters, way
> > back in the early... well, I didn't meet it till the 90s, but I don't
> > know how long it had been around before that.
> 
> 
> Am I the only one here who has used a typewriter?
> 
> Tab stops were set manually, to a physical distance into the page, using 
> a mechanical stop. This long predates the "rule" that tab stops are every 
> 8 characters.

Yup.  I learned on a good old manual, with mechanical "Tab Set" and "Tab 
Clear" function.

Of course, on an 029, you set the tab stops by punching a drum card.

> If your editor doesn't support setting tab stops to at least single pixel 
> resolution, it's not supporting tabs, it's supporting something else that 
> it merely calls "tabs".

Yup.  I use emacs.  "M-X edit tab stops" does that.  Like so much else 
about emacs, I haven't used that feature in years (gee, maybe decades), 
but it's nice to know it's there.

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#42969

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

> Am I the only one here who has used a typewriter?
>
> I used one.  And http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White-Out.  And
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correction_tape.

My wife typed her dissertation on this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hardwarewordprocessor.png.

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#43086

On Sun, 07 Apr 2013 01:30:45 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> Am I the only one here who has used a typewriter?
> 
> Tab stops were set manually, to a physical distance into the page, using 
> a mechanical stop. This long predates the "rule" that tab stops are every 
> 8 characters.

And your point is?

Typewriters don't have a tab "character". The information regarding tab
stops is conveyed out-of-band from the typist to the typewriter, and
doesn't need to persist beyond the time taken to type the document.

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#43089

On 2013-04-08, Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Apr 2013 01:30:45 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
>> Am I the only one here who has used a typewriter?
>> 
>> Tab stops were set manually, to a physical distance into the page, using 
>> a mechanical stop. This long predates the "rule" that tab stops are every 
>> 8 characters.
>
> And your point is?

The point is that there is little historical precedent for assuming
that tab stops are evenly and equally spaced across the page (let
alone one particular fixed, even spacing) -- and people who mix spaces
and tabs based on such false assumptions are responsible for their own
bleeding foot.

> Typewriters don't have a tab "character". The information regarding tab
> stops is conveyed out-of-band from the typist to the typewriter, and
> doesn't need to persist beyond the time taken to type the document.

And the same is true when you don't mix tabs and spaces when indenting
Python code.  If you use tabs alone when indenting Python code it
doesn't matter where the tabs are set -- they don't even have to be
equally spaced -- the meaning of the source file is unambiguous.

If you mix tabs and spaces, then you've got to provide out-of-band
information regarding the position of the tab stops in order to make
the source code unambiguous.  Since there's no mechanism to provide
that OOB tab stop info, mixed tabs and spaces isn't accepted.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! I am covered with
                                  at               pure vegetable oil and I am
                              gmail.com            writing a best seller!

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#43093

On Mon, 08 Apr 2013 19:48:58 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:

> On 2013-04-08, Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 07 Apr 2013 01:30:45 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>>> Am I the only one here who has used a typewriter?
>>> 
>>> Tab stops were set manually, to a physical distance into the page,
>>> using a mechanical stop. This long predates the "rule" that tab stops
>>> are every 8 characters.
>>
>> And your point is?
> 
> The point is that there is little historical precedent for assuming that
> tab stops are evenly and equally spaced across the page (let alone one
> particular fixed, even spacing) -- and people who mix spaces and tabs
> based on such false assumptions are responsible for their own bleeding
> foot.
> 
>> Typewriters don't have a tab "character". The information regarding tab
>> stops is conveyed out-of-band from the typist to the typewriter, and
>> doesn't need to persist beyond the time taken to type the document.
> 
> And the same is true when you don't mix tabs and spaces when indenting
> Python code.  If you use tabs alone when indenting Python code it
> doesn't matter where the tabs are set -- they don't even have to be
> equally spaced -- the meaning of the source file is unambiguous.
> 
> If you mix tabs and spaces, then you've got to provide out-of-band
> information regarding the position of the tab stops in order to make the
> source code unambiguous.  Since there's no mechanism to provide that OOB
> tab stop info, mixed tabs and spaces isn't accepted.

Personally I have always used 4 spaces. I use it in SQL, shell scripts 
and Python. It makes code simple to read, and unambiguous.

The fact of Python enforcing it (or all tabs; a poor second choice) is *a 
good thing*, easy and natural IMHO. No need for "end if" or "end loop" or 
"fi". One wonders whether OP is simply trolling.  

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#43094

On 2013-04-08, Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> wrote:

> Personally I have always used 4 spaces. I use it in SQL, shell
> scripts and Python. It makes code simple to read, and unambiguous.

Same here -- mostly because that's what the emacs "Python-mode" does
by default, and it seems to be commonly accepted "right way".  All
things being equal, I'd pobably pick 2 or 3, but 4 is fine.

> The fact of Python enforcing it (or all tabs; a poor second choice)
> is *a good thing*, easy and natural IMHO. No need for "end if" or
> "end loop" or "fi". One wonders whether OP is simply trolling.  

If he was trolling, he certainly deserves a prize.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Here we are in America
                                  at               ... when do we collect
                              gmail.com            unemployment?

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#43095

On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 7:29 AM, Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 2013-04-08, Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> wrote:
>> The fact of Python enforcing it (or all tabs; a poor second choice)
>> is *a good thing*, easy and natural IMHO. No need for "end if" or
>> "end loop" or "fi". One wonders whether OP is simply trolling.
>
> If he was trolling, he certainly deserves a prize.

I don't think he was trolling. It was a classic-model rant: "I
upgraded my dependency to a newer version and all my stuff broke".
Commonly provokes anger, largely because many such upgrades do NOT
break stuff (eg if I were to switch from gcc 4.5 to gcc 4.7 right now,
I doubt anything would break, and my code would be able to use the new
iterator syntax in c++11 - pity 4.7 isn't packaged for Debian
Squeeze). The OP upgraded across an openly-non-backward-compatible
boundary, and got angry over one particular aspect of backward compat
that wasn't there.

ChrisA

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#43096

On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 08:00:06 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 7:29 AM, Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>> On 2013-04-08, Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> wrote:
>>> The fact of Python enforcing it (or all tabs; a poor second choice)
>>> is *a good thing*, easy and natural IMHO. No need for "end if" or "end
>>> loop" or "fi". One wonders whether OP is simply trolling.
>>
>> If he was trolling, he certainly deserves a prize.
> 
> I don't think he was trolling. It was a classic-model rant: "I upgraded
> my dependency to a newer version and all my stuff broke".
> Commonly provokes anger, largely because many such upgrades do NOT break
> stuff (eg if I were to switch from gcc 4.5 to gcc 4.7 right now,
> I doubt anything would break, and my code would be able to use the new
> iterator syntax in c++11 - pity 4.7 isn't packaged for Debian Squeeze).
> The OP upgraded across an openly-non-backward-compatible boundary, and
> got angry over one particular aspect of backward compat that wasn't
> there.

But wouldn't it have been easier simply to do do a quick sed or whatever 
rather than to spend hours here arguing?

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#43097

On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 8:51 AM, Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 08:00:06 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 7:29 AM, Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>> On 2013-04-08, Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> wrote:
>>>> The fact of Python enforcing it (or all tabs; a poor second choice)
>>>> is *a good thing*, easy and natural IMHO. No need for "end if" or "end
>>>> loop" or "fi". One wonders whether OP is simply trolling.
>>>
>>> If he was trolling, he certainly deserves a prize.
>>
>> I don't think he was trolling. It was a classic-model rant: "I upgraded
>> my dependency to a newer version and all my stuff broke".
>> Commonly provokes anger, largely because many such upgrades do NOT break
>> stuff (eg if I were to switch from gcc 4.5 to gcc 4.7 right now,
>> I doubt anything would break, and my code would be able to use the new
>> iterator syntax in c++11 - pity 4.7 isn't packaged for Debian Squeeze).
>> The OP upgraded across an openly-non-backward-compatible boundary, and
>> got angry over one particular aspect of backward compat that wasn't
>> there.
>
> But wouldn't it have been easier simply to do do a quick sed or whatever
> rather than to spend hours here arguing?

Probably. I don't profess to understand the OP's brain *that* much!

ChrisA

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#43139

On 08/04/2013 23:51, Walter Hurry wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 08:00:06 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 7:29 AM, Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>> On 2013-04-08, Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> wrote:
>>>> The fact of Python enforcing it (or all tabs; a poor second choice)
>>>> is *a good thing*, easy and natural IMHO. No need for "end if" or "end
>>>> loop" or "fi". One wonders whether OP is simply trolling.
>>>
>>> If he was trolling, he certainly deserves a prize.
>>
>> I don't think he was trolling. It was a classic-model rant: "I upgraded
>> my dependency to a newer version and all my stuff broke".
>> Commonly provokes anger, largely because many such upgrades do NOT break
>> stuff (eg if I were to switch from gcc 4.5 to gcc 4.7 right now,
>> I doubt anything would break, and my code would be able to use the new
>> iterator syntax in c++11 - pity 4.7 isn't packaged for Debian Squeeze).
>> The OP upgraded across an openly-non-backward-compatible boundary, and
>> got angry over one particular aspect of backward compat that wasn't
>> there.
>
> But wouldn't it have been easier simply to do do a quick sed or whatever
> rather than to spend hours here arguing?
>

Where's the fun in that? :)

-- 
If you're using GoogleCrap™ please read this 
http://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython.

Mark Lawrence

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#43168

On 2013-04-09, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> But wouldn't it have been easier simply to do do a quick sed or whatever
>> rather than to spend hours here arguing?
>
> Where's the fun in that? :)

What, you don't think sed is fun?

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Did I say I was
                                  at               a sardine?  Or a bus???
                              gmail.com            

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#43174

On 2013-04-09 13:39, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2013-04-09, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> But wouldn't it have been easier simply to do do a quick sed or
> >> whatever rather than to spend hours here arguing?
> >
> > Where's the fun in that? :)
> 
> What, you don't think sed is fun?
> 
> -- 
> Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Did I say I
> was at               a sardine?  Or a bus???
>                               gmail.com            

| sed -e '/What.*n.t/{s//Sure I/;s/?/!/};/^-- /{r .signature' -e'q}'

:-)

-tkc

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#43180

On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 12:17 AM, Tim Chase
<python.list@tim.thechases.com> wrote:
> | sed -e '/What.*n.t/{s//Sure I/;s/?/!/};/^-- /{r .signature' -e'q}'
>

A very apt response. Oh wait, I already have sed on this system, don't
need to fire up apt.

ChrisA

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#43186

On 09/04/2013 14:39, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2013-04-09, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> But wouldn't it have been easier simply to do do a quick sed or whatever
>>> rather than to spend hours here arguing?
>>
>> Where's the fun in that? :)
>
> What, you don't think sed is fun?
>

Having never really used a *nix box in anger how would I know?  A 
substantial portion of my career was spent on a combination of VMS, C 
with embedded SQL and Ingres.  Please don't ask as I don't know the 
answer :)

-- 
If you're using GoogleCrap™ please read this 
http://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython.

Mark Lawrence

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#43229

On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 16:51:26 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote:

> On 09/04/2013 14:39, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2013-04-09, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> But wouldn't it have been easier simply to do do a quick sed or
>>>> whatever rather than to spend hours here arguing?
>>>
>>> Where's the fun in that? :)
>>
>> What, you don't think sed is fun?
>>
>>
> Having never really used a *nix box in anger how would I know?  A
> substantial portion of my career was spent on a combination of VMS, C
> with embedded SQL and Ingres.  Please don't ask as I don't know the
> answer :)

Anti-virus, anti-malware, defragmenters, registry cleaners, needing to 
reboot every time I install or update software?

No grep, no awk, no sed?

No thanks.

But never mind; each to his own. I don't want to spark OS wars.

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