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Encoding questions (continuation)

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  Encoding questions (continuation) Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-10 14:13 +0300
    Re: Encoding questions (continuation) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-10 11:41 +0000
      Re: Encoding questions (continuation) Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-10 06:56 -0700
        Re: Encoding questions (continuation) Fábio Santos <fabiosantosart@gmail.com> - 2013-06-10 17:17 +0100
        Re: Encoding questions (continuation) Larry Hudson <orgnut@yahoo.com> - 2013-06-11 00:52 -0700
          Re: Encoding questions (continuation) Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-11 13:09 -0700
            Re: Encoding questions (continuation) Larry Hudson <orgnut@yahoo.com> - 2013-06-12 01:20 -0700
              Re: Encoding questions (continuation) Larry Hudson <orgnut@yahoo.com> - 2013-06-12 01:32 -0700
        OT: e-mail reply to old/archived message (was Re: Encoding questions (continuation)) Andreas Perstinger <andipersti@gmail.com> - 2013-06-11 13:21 +0200
          Re: OT: e-mail reply to old/archived message (was Re: Encoding questions (continuation)) Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-11 13:14 -0700
            Re: OT: e-mail reply to old/archived message Andreas Perstinger <andipersti@gmail.com> - 2013-06-12 00:13 +0200
              Re: OT: e-mail reply to old/archived message nagia.retsina@gmail.com - 2013-06-11 18:16 -0700
                Re: OT: e-mail reply to old/archived message Phil Connell <pconnell@gmail.com> - 2013-06-12 07:36 +0100
                  Re: OT: e-mail reply to old/archived message nagia.retsina@gmail.com - 2013-06-11 23:58 -0700
      Re: Encoding questions (continuation) Lele Gaifax <lele@metapensiero.it> - 2013-06-11 00:19 +0200
        Re: Encoding questions (continuation) Νικόλαος Κούρας <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-06-11 13:06 -0700

#47547 — Encoding questions (continuation)

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Τη Δευτέρα, 10 Ιουνίου 2013 1:42:25 μ.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης Andreas 
Perstinger έγραψε:

 >  >>> s = b'\xce\xb1'
 >
 >  >>> s[0]
 >
 > 206

's' is a byte object, how can you treat it as a string asking to present 
you its first character?

 >
 >  >>> s[1]
 >
 > 177

's' is a byte object, how can you treat it as a string asking to present 
you its first character?

 > A byte object is a sequence of bytes (= integer values) and support  
indexing

A sequeence of bystes is a a sequence of bits which is zeros and one's 
not integers.


 > Because your method doesn't work.
 > If you use all possible 256 bit-combinations to represent a valid
 > character, how do you decide where to stop in a sequence of bytes?

How you mean? please provice an example so i can understand this.

 > > EBCDIC and ASCII and Unicode are charactet sets, correct?

 > > iso-8859-1, iso-8859-7, utf-8, utf-16, utf-32 and so on are 
encoding methods, right?

 > Look at http://www.unicode.org/glossary/ for an explanation of all 
the terms

I did but docs confuse me even more. Can you pleas ebut it simple.

Unicode as i udnerstand it was created out of need for a big character 
set that could be able to hold all worlds symboles, whiel ascii could 
only store first 127 and extended 246.

ascii and unicode are character sets.

everything else sees to be an encoding system that work upne the 
characters set(never deen them though act on the scii charset)

but iso-8859-7 is both a charset and an encoding system?



ps. i tried to post a reply to the thread i opend via thunderbird mail 
client, but not as a reply to somne other reply but as  new mail send to 
python list.
because of that a new thread will be opened.
How can i tell thunderbird to reply to the original thread and not start 
a new one?
Sorry for that but i can' even post via google groups any more. it says 
that an error occured.
Sorry for this. please xplain hpw to reply properly to correct hread via 
mail.
thank you.
-- 
Webhost <http://superhost.gr>&& Weblog <http://psariastonafro.wordpress.com>

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#47548

On Mon, 10 Jun 2013 14:13:00 +0300, Νικόλαος Κούρας wrote:

> Τη Δευτέρα, 10 Ιουνίου 2013 1:42:25 μ.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης Andreas
> Perstinger έγραψε:
> 
>  >  >>> s = b'\xce\xb1'
>  >
>  >  >>> s[0]
>  >
>  > 206
> 
> 's' is a byte object, how can you treat it as a string asking to present
> you its first character?

That is not treating it as a string, and it does not present the first 
character. It presents the first byte, which is a number between 0 and 
255, not a character.

py> alist = [0xce, 0xb1]
py> alist[0]
206

Is that treating alist as a string? No, of course not. Strings are not 
the only object that have indexing object[position].


> 's' is a byte object, how can you treat it as a string asking to present
> you its first character?

You just asked that exact same question. Why ask it twice?


>  > A byte object is a sequence of bytes (= integer values) and support
> indexing
> 
> A sequeence of bystes is a a sequence of bits which is zeros and one's
> not integers.

Nikos, you fail basic computers. Time for you to step away from the 
computer, go to the library, and borrow a book about the basic 
fundamentals of how computers work. Perhaps something written for school 
children.

I am not saying this to insult you, or to be rude. But you are obviously 
struggling with the most basic concepts, like what a byte is. You need to 
go back to basics and learn the simple things, and perhaps if it is 
explained to you in your native language, you will understand it better.


>  > Because your method doesn't work.
>  > If you use all possible 256 bit-combinations to represent a valid
>  > character, how do you decide where to stop in a sequence of bytes?
> 
> How you mean? please provice an example so i can understand this.

I have already provided an example. Many other people have provided 
examples. Please read them.


>  > > EBCDIC and ASCII and Unicode are charactet sets, correct?
> 
>  > > iso-8859-1, iso-8859-7, utf-8, utf-16, utf-32 and so on are
> encoding methods, right?
> 
>  > Look at http://www.unicode.org/glossary/ for an explanation of all
> the terms
> 
> I did but docs confuse me even more. Can you pleas ebut it simple.

Nikos, if you can't be bothered to correct your spelling mistakes, why 
should we be bothered to answer your questions? It takes you half a 
second to fix a typo like "pleas ebut". It takes us five, ten, fifteen, 
twenty minutes to write an email explaining these concepts, and then you 
don't bother to read them and just ask the same question again. And 
again. And again.


> ps. i tried to post a reply to the thread i opend via thunderbird mail
> client, but not as a reply to somne other reply but as  new mail send to
> python list.
> because of that a new thread will be opened. How can i tell thunderbird
> to reply to the original thread and not start a new one?

By replying to an email in that thread.



-- 
Steven

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#47558

Τη Δευτέρα, 10 Ιουνίου 2013 2:41:07 μ.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης Steven D'Aprano έγραψε:
> On Mon, 10 Jun 2013 14:13:00 +0300, Νικόλαος Κούρας wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > Τη Δευτέρα, 10 Ιουνίου 2013 1:42:25 μ.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης Andreas
> 
> > Perstinger έγραψε:
> 
> > 
> 
> >  >  >>> s = b'\xce\xb1'
> 
> >  >
> 
> >  >  >>> s[0]
> 
> >  >
> 
> >  > 206
> 
> > 
> 
> > 's' is a byte object, how can you treat it as a string asking to present
> 
> > you its first character?
> 
> 
> 
> That is not treating it as a string, and it does not present the first 
> 
> character. It presents the first byte, which is a number between 0 and 
> 
> 255, not a character.
> 
> 
> 
> py> alist = [0xce, 0xb1]
> 
> py> alist[0]
> 
> 206


To my mind alist[0] should yield '0xce'

> Is that treating alist as a string? No, of course not. Strings are not 
> 
> the only object that have indexing object[position].

Yes actually it does.

s string is a series of characters.

a list is a series of objects, which can be chars, strings, integers, other data structures.

So doing a_list[0] is similar of doing a_string[00


> >  > A byte object is a sequence of bytes (= integer values) and support 
> > indexing


Isn't a byte a series of zeros and ones, like 01010101 ?
So why you say bytes are integers since its numbers into a binary system?
perhsp you mean a represantaion of a bye to a decimal value?

> I am not saying this to insult you, or to be rude. But you are obviously  
> struggling with the most basic concepts, like what a byte is. You need to  
> go back to basics and learn the simple things, and perhaps if it is 
> explained to you in your native language, you will understand it better.
> 

> I have already provided an example. Many other people have provided 
> 
> examples. Please read them.

i do read everythign being posted back to me.

> > ps. i tried to post a reply to the thread i opend via thunderbird mail
> > client, but not as a reply to somne other reply but as  new mail send to
> > python list.
> > because of that a new thread will be opened. How can i tell thunderbird
> > to reply to the original thread and not start a new one?
> By replying to an email in that thread.

Yes thats obvious.
What is not obvious is how you reply back to a thread by giving extra info when you are not replying to a mail formt tha thread or when you ahve deleted the reply for a member

sending the mail to python-list@python.org will just open anew subject intead of replyign to an opened thread.

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#47579

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On 10 Jun 2013 15:04, "Νικόλαος Κούρας" <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Τη Δευτέρα, 10 Ιουνίου 2013 2:41:07 μ.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης Steven D'Aprano
έγραψε:
> > On Mon, 10 Jun 2013 14:13:00 +0300, Νικόλαος Κούρας wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > Τη Δευτέρα, 10 Ιουνίου 2013 1:42:25 μ.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης Andreas
> >
> > > Perstinger έγραψε:
> >
> > >
> >
> > >  >  >>> s = b'\xce\xb1'
> >
> > >  >
> >
> > >  >  >>> s[0]
> >
> > >  >
> >
> > >  > 206
> >
> > >
> >
> > > 's' is a byte object, how can you treat it as a string asking to
present
> >
> > > you its first character?
> >
> >
> >
> > That is not treating it as a string, and it does not present the first
> >
> > character. It presents the first byte, which is a number between 0 and
> >
> > 255, not a character.
> >
> >
> >
> > py> alist = [0xce, 0xb1]
> >
> > py> alist[0]
> >
> > 206
>
>
> To my mind alist[0] should yield '0xce'

This happens because 0xce is an integer object too. Integer objects have no
"memory" of what format they were declared on. Oxce just happens to be 206
in hexadecimal. Ob10 would also result in the integer 2.

> > Is that treating alist as a string? No, of course not. Strings are not
> >
> > the only object that have indexing object[position].
>
> Yes actually it does.
>
> s string is a series of characters.
>
> a list is a series of objects, which can be chars, strings, integers,
other data structures.
>
> So doing a_list[0] is similar of doing a_string[00
>
>
> > >  > A byte object is a sequence of bytes (= integer values) and support
> > > indexing
>
>
> Isn't a byte a series of zeros and ones, like 01010101 ?
> So why you say bytes are integers since its numbers into a binary system?
> perhsp you mean a represantaion of a bye to a decimal value?

A byte is a number, stored in (usually) 8 binary digits. By addressing a
bytes object by its index, you get an integer of that byte. That's just how
python deals with it.

You should heed Steven's advice and read up on basic computing. You seem to
be lacking a lot of basic concepts.

Cheers.

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#47649

On 06/10/2013 06:56 AM, Νικόλαος Κούρας wrote:

>>> ps. i tried to post a reply to the thread i opend via thunderbird mail
>>> client, but not as a reply to somne other reply but as  new mail send to
>>> python list.
>>> because of that a new thread will be opened. How can i tell thunderbird
>>> to reply to the original thread and not start a new one?
>> By replying to an email in that thread.
>
> Yes thats obvious.
> What is not obvious is how you reply back to a thread by giving extra info when you are not replying to a mail formt tha thread or when you ahve deleted the reply for a member
>
> sending the mail to python-list@python.org will just open anew subject intead of replyign to an opened thread.
>
In Thunderbird, click on "Followup" not "Reply".

Reply sends e-mail to the poster but doesn't post it to the list.

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#47698

Τη Τρίτη, 11 Ιουνίου 2013 10:52:02 π.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης Larry Hudson έγραψε:
> On 06/10/2013 06:56 AM, Νικόλαος Κούρας wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> >>> ps. i tried to post a reply to the thread i opend via thunderbird mail
> 
> >>> client, but not as a reply to somne other reply but as  new mail send to
> 
> >>> python list.
> 
> >>> because of that a new thread will be opened. How can i tell thunderbird
> 
> >>> to reply to the original thread and not start a new one?
> 
> >> By replying to an email in that thread.
> 
> >
> 
> > Yes thats obvious.
> 
> > What is not obvious is how you reply back to a thread by giving extra info when you are not replying to a mail formt tha thread or when you ahve deleted the reply for a member
> 
> >
> 
> > sending the mail to python-list@python.org will just open anew subject intead of replyign to an opened thread.
> 
> >
> 
> In Thunderbird, click on "Followup" not "Reply".

Lets say i want to anser to your question by mail and not by using spamming '\n' google groups, how will i be ble to do it by follow up?

i think your suggestions works only if you have a mail handy in TB and you hit follow-up what if you dont have the mail handy?

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#47752

On 06/11/2013 01:09 PM, Νικόλαος Κούρας wrote:
> Τη Τρίτη, 11 Ιουνίου 2013 10:52:02 π.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης Larry Hudson έγραψε:
>> On 06/10/2013 06:56 AM, Νικόλαος Κούρας wrote:

> i think your suggestions works only if you have a mail handy in TB and you hit follow-up what if you dont have the mail handy?
>
Followup or Reply brings up the "Compose" window (with the message you're replying to already 
quoted).  Now you can either type your reply directly, OR if you have it already available you 
can copy/paste it.  THEN you click on "Send".  If it's a Followup it will be posted to the list, 
if it is a Reply it sends it as e-mail.

BTW, you can *AND SHOULD* edit the quoted text to remove all the unnecessary irrelevant crap, so 
you are quoting ONLY what you are actually replying to.  All the rest is junk and annoying.  But 
definitely keep the parts you are replying to give context to your reply message.

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#47755

On 06/12/2013 01:20 AM, Larry Hudson wrote:
> On 06/11/2013 01:09 PM, Νικόλαος Κούρας wrote:
>> Τη Τρίτη, 11 Ιουνίου 2013 10:52:02 π.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης Larry Hudson έγραψε:
>>> On 06/10/2013 06:56 AM, Νικόλαος Κούρας wrote:
>
I forgot to specify I'm talking about using Thunderbird Newsgroups, not the E-mail part.  If 
you're not using the Thunderbird Newsgroups, try it.  It makes things much MUCH easier.  (And it 
eliminates the annoying double-spacing from Google Groups!)

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#47654 — OT: e-mail reply to old/archived message (was Re: Encoding questions (continuation))

On 10.06.2013 15:56, Νικόλαος Κούρας wrote:
> Τη Δευτέρα, 10 Ιουνίου 2013 2:41:07 μ.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης Steven
> D'Aprano έγραψε:
>> On Mon, 10 Jun 2013 14:13:00 +0300, Νικόλαος Κούρας wrote:
>>> ps. i tried to post a reply to the thread i opend via thunderbird
>>> mail client, but not as a reply to somne other reply but as  new
>>> mail send to python list. because of that a new thread will be
>>> opened. How can i tell thunderbird to reply to the original
>>> thread and not start a new one?
>> By replying to an email in that thread.
>
> Yes thats obvious. What is not obvious is how you reply back to a
> thread by giving extra info when you are not replying to a mail formt
> tha thread or when you ahve deleted the reply for a member
>
> sending the mail to python-list@python.org will just open anew
> subject intead of replyign to an opened thread.

You would need to find out the Message-Id of the post you want to reply 
to and then add manually the In-Reply-To and References headers to your 
e-mail using that Id.

It's probably easier to just use the web interface at Gmane.

Bye, Andreas

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#47699 — Re: OT: e-mail reply to old/archived message (was Re: Encoding questions (continuation))

Τη Τρίτη, 11 Ιουνίου 2013 2:21:50 μ.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης Andreas Perstinger έγραψε:

> > sending the mail to python-list@python.org will just open anew
> > subject intead of replyign to an opened thread.

> You would need to find out the Message-Id of the post you want to reply 
> to and then add manually the In-Reply-To and References headers to your 
> e-mail using that Id.

You mean by viewing for example your post as 'view original source', finding 
In-Reply-To: <71d585e6-bb98-47b7-9a45-7cde1ba0c48f@googlegroups.com>

and then compose a new mail as:

to: Andreas Perstinger <andip...@gmail.com>
cc: In-Reply-To: <71d585e6-bb98-47b7-9a45-7cde1ba0c48f@googlegroups.com>

is this the way Andrea?

but what the diif between rplyt-to and message-id ?
Message-ID: <mailman.3016.1370949723.3114.python-list@python.org>

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#47705 — Re: OT: e-mail reply to old/archived message

On 11.06.2013 22:14, Νικόλαος Κούρας wrote:
> Τη Τρίτη, 11 Ιουνίου 2013 2:21:50 μ.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης Andreas Perstinger έγραψε:
>> > sending the mail to python-list@python.org will just open anew
>> > subject intead of replyign to an opened thread.
>
>> You would need to find out the Message-Id of the post you want to reply
>> to and then add manually the In-Reply-To and References headers to your
>> e-mail using that Id.
>
> You mean by viewing for example your post as 'view original source', finding
> In-Reply-To: <71d585e6-bb98-47b7-9a45-7cde1ba0c48f@googlegroups.com>

No, the In-Reply-To header in *my* post is the post *I* have replied to, 
i.e. that's the Message-ID of *your* earlier post.

>
> and then compose a new mail as:
>
> to: Andreas Perstinger <andip...@gmail.com>
> cc: In-Reply-To: <71d585e6-bb98-47b7-9a45-7cde1ba0c48f@googlegroups.com>
>
> is this the way Andrea?

No, the headers would be:
To: python-list@python.org
In-Reply-To: <51B7084E.9040000@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2964.1370862786.3114.python-list@python.org> 
<51b5bb53$0$29997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> 
<71d585e6-bb98-47b7-9a45-7cde1ba0c48f@googlegroups.com> 
<51B7084E.9040000@gmail.com>

Basically, you should follow RFC 2822 and RFC 1036 if you don't mess up 
with message threading.

You also need to know that you can't add these headers manually in 
Thunderbird out of the box. You would need to edit the configuration.

Bye, Andreas

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#47720 — Re: OT: e-mail reply to old/archived message

How can i be able to answer you guys posts by my mail client?

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#47744 — Re: OT: e-mail reply to old/archived message

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On 12 Jun 2013 02:20, <nagia.retsina@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> How can i be able to answer you guys posts by my mail client?

Don't delete mails that you might want to reply to.

If you do anything else, you're just making it difficult for yourself.

Cheers,
Phil

> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

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#47745 — Re: OT: e-mail reply to old/archived message

Τη Τετάρτη, 12 Ιουνίου 2013 9:36:41 π.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης Phil Connell έγραψε:
> On 12 Jun 2013 02:20, <nagia....@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> 
> > How can i be able to answer you guys posts by my mail client?
> 
> Don't delete mails that you might want to reply to. 
> 
> If you do anything else, you're just making it difficult for yourself.
> 
> Cheers, 
> 
> Phil
> 
> > --
> 
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

i installed pan for windows just now, lets hpe it will be a workign alternative.

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#47607

Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> writes:

>> I did but docs confuse me even more. Can you pleas ebut it simple.
>
> Nikos, if you can't be bothered to correct your spelling mistakes, why 
> should we be bothered to answer your questions?

Maybe he just want to prove we are smart enough...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,511177,00.html

Or maybe his encoding algorithm needs some refinement
:-)

ciao, lele.
-- 
nickname: Lele Gaifax | Quando vivrò di quello che ho pensato ieri
real: Emanuele Gaifas | comincerò ad aver paura di chi mi copia.
lele@metapensiero.it  |                 -- Fortunato Depero, 1929.

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#47697

Τη Τρίτη, 11 Ιουνίου 2013 1:19:25 π.μ. UTC+3, ο χρήστης Lele Gaifax έγραψε:

> Maybe he just want to prove we are smart enough... 
> Or maybe his encoding algorithm needs some refinement 
> :-)

I already knwo you are smart enough, the latter is what needs some more refinement work :-)

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