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  issues Anna Szaharcsuk <szaharcsuk@googlemail.com> - 2015-12-04 22:44 +0000
    Re: issues Paulo da Silva <p_s_d_a_s_i_l_v_a_ns@netcabo.pt> - 2015-12-18 22:19 +0000
    Installing PyCharm on Windows (was: issues) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-12-19 19:32 +0100
      Re: Installing PyCharm on Windows (was: issues) Josef Pktd <josef.pktd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-19 20:32 -0800
        Re: Installing PyCharm on Windows Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-12-20 09:28 +0100
          Re: Installing PyCharm on Windows Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-12-20 20:23 +1100
            Re: Installing PyCharm on Windows Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-12-20 20:57 +1100
          Re: Installing PyCharm on Windows Josef Pktd <josef.pktd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-20 09:15 -0800
            Re: Installing PyCharm on Windows Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-12-21 08:54 +1100
            Re: Installing PyCharm on Windows Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2015-12-20 17:46 -0500
            Re: Installing PyCharm on Windows Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-12-21 10:04 +1100
          Re: Installing PyCharm on Windows Erik <python@lucidity.plus.com> - 2015-12-20 21:21 +0000
    Re: issues wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-12-20 01:27 -0800

#100065 — issues

Hello there,

I was trying to install PyCharm, but didn't worked and needed interpreter.
the computer advised to install the python for windows.

Can you help me, please, PyCharm stillnot working...allways gives a message
for repair, after- the repair successful and again message for repair...


Kind regards,
Anna

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#100607

Às 22:44 de 04-12-2015, Anna Szaharcsuk escreveu:
> Hello there,
> 
> I was trying to install PyCharm, but didn't worked and needed interpreter.
> the computer advised to install the python for windows.
> 
I don't know PyCharm but it is likely it needs python.

Did you install python?
You may need to install it from
https://www.python.org/downloads/windows/

You may also need to check if you need python 2, python 3 or both.
They are different.

HTH
Paulo

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#100614 — Installing PyCharm on Windows (was: issues)

Anna Szaharcsuk wrote:

> I was trying to install PyCharm, but didn't worked and needed interpreter.
> the computer advised to install the python for windows.

Not “the python for windows” (that would be some species of snake), but 
_Python_ for _Windows_, the programming language interpreter.  Just do as 
“the computer advised”.

> Can you help me, please, PyCharm stillnot working...allways gives a
> message for repair, after- the repair successful and again message for
> repair...

Have you installed Python first?  If no, it cannot work (and please think 
about this: What good is an IDE/editor for a programming language if you do 
not also have the interpreter/compiler?).  It says so in the “Quick Start 
Guide” in the “PyCharm 5.0 Help”, currently to be found on the PyCharm Web 
site under “Docs & Demos”:

<https://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/help/quick-start-guide.html#prereq>

Have you tried to install Python ≥ 3.4.4rc1 on Windows XP?  If yes, it 
cannot work; you need Python < 3.4.4rc1 instead (and you should seriously 
consider upgrading Windows or even better, to switch to a real operating 
system, like GNU/Linux – many of the latter come for free and give you more 
freedom than Windows):

<http://stackoverflow.com/a/32942216/855543>

Before your next posting, please read

<http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html>

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#100621 — Re: Installing PyCharm on Windows (was: issues)

On Saturday, December 19, 2015 at 1:32:27 PM UTC-5, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Anna Szaharcsuk wrote:
> 
> > I was trying to install PyCharm, but didn't worked and needed interpreter.
> > the computer advised to install the python for windows.
> 
> Not “the python for windows” (that would be some species of snake), but 
> _Python_ for _Windows_, the programming language interpreter.  Just do as 
> “the computer advised”.
> 
> > Can you help me, please, PyCharm stillnot working...allways gives a
> > message for repair, after- the repair successful and again message for
> > repair...
> 
> Have you installed Python first?  If no, it cannot work (and please think 
> about this: What good is an IDE/editor for a programming language if you do 
> not also have the interpreter/compiler?).  It says so in the “Quick Start 
> Guide” in the “PyCharm 5.0 Help”, currently to be found on the PyCharm Web 
> site under “Docs & Demos”:
> 
> <https://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/help/quick-start-guide.html#prereq>
> 
> Have you tried to install Python ≥ 3.4.4rc1 on Windows XP?  If yes, it 
> cannot work; you need Python < 3.4.4rc1 instead (and you should seriously 
> consider upgrading Windows or even better, to switch to a real operating 
> system, like GNU/Linux – many of the latter come for free and give you more 
> freedom than Windows):

Thanks for the tip, I will switch away from Windows when I have an extra year to figure out weird things in other operating systems.

So far I never managed more than two weeks in a Linux virtual machine before never opening it again.


Josef
PS: loyal Windows user since Windows 95, currently considering whether to upgrade from 7 and 8 to 10.

PPS: The mainstream: Python and Windows ("it's not just for 'hackers'"):
http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0

PPPS: Scientific Python mailing list have been free of snide remarks about Windows users for a while, but not of real problems with Windows (or OSX or Linux)

PPPPS: Windows 10 with Computer as a Service following Apple will lock in many users again to "everything Microsoft", but without the monopoly.


> 
> <http://stackoverflow.com/a/32942216/855543>
> 
> Before your next posting, please read
> 
> <http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html>
> 
> -- 
> PointedEars
> 
> Twitter: @PointedEars2
> Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#100622 — Re: Installing PyCharm on Windows

Josef Pktd wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^
I doubt that is your real name.

> On Saturday, December 19, 2015 at 1:32:27 PM UTC-5, Thomas 'PointedEars'
> Lahn wrote:
>> Have you tried to install Python ≥ 3.4.4rc1 on Windows XP?  If yes, it
>> cannot work; you need Python < 3.4.4rc1 instead (and you should seriously
>> consider upgrading Windows or even better, to switch to a real operating
>> system, like GNU/Linux – many of the latter come for free and give you
>> more freedom than Windows):
> 
> Thanks for the tip, I will switch away from Windows when I have an extra
> year to figure out weird things in other operating systems.

Ordinary people (as opposed to tech-savvy people) have been known to set up 
a current Linux distribution in a day and get accustomed to it in a week.  
Those “weird things” you are talking about are merely something that needs a 
little getting used to if you had gotten used to Windows.  Of course, not 
all people are (still) that flexible in their thinking.

> So far I never managed more than two weeks in a Linux virtual machine
> before never opening it again.

Your problem alone.

> PPS: The mainstream: Python and Windows ("it's not just for 'hackers'"):

Non-Windows operating systems are not just for hackers since more than a 
decade.  They are for reasonably smart people, though, who would not give up 
at the first sign of trouble.

And who cares about the mainstream opinion?

> http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html

Thank you so much for providing that valuable reference. I am sure nobody 
here knew :->

> https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0

A million flies can be wrong.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows#Third-party_analysis>

> PPPS: Scientific Python mailing list have been free of snide remarks about
> Windows users for a while, but not of real problems with Windows (or OSX
> or Linux)

Thanks to you that would have changed if this were a “scientific Python 
mailing list”.

Mine was not a snide remark, but the truth.  Those other operating systems I 
was talking about do give users more freedom.  For example, the freedom to 
use it on as many different machines as you like without an extra license, 
to see the source code, to modify it, and to redistribute the modification 
including an attribution to yourself.
 
> PPPPS: Windows 10 with Computer as a Service following Apple will lock in
> many users again to "everything Microsoft", but without the monopoly.

If people are made dependent on a single vendor, how is that not attempting 
to attain a monopoly?

Anyhow, *I* was not intending to start an OS flame war, but to point out 
that in my experience Python is easier to handle on other OSes than Windows, 
so it is a contingency that should be considered.  As you indicated, that 
does not mean that one has to abandon Windows for booting the computer.

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#100623 — Re: Installing PyCharm on Windows

On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 07:28 pm, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

> Josef Pktd wrote:
> ^^^^^^^^^^
> I doubt that is your real name.


So what? I doubt "PointedEars" is your real name, but you don't see me
making a big deal out of it. You're welcome to call yourself by any
reasonable moniker.



-- 
Steven

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#100625 — Re: Installing PyCharm on Windows

On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 8:23 PM, Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 07:28 pm, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>
>> Josef Pktd wrote:
>> ^^^^^^^^^^
>> I doubt that is your real name.
>
>
> So what? I doubt "PointedEars" is your real name, but you don't see me
> making a big deal out of it. You're welcome to call yourself by any
> reasonable moniker.

Also, I see no reason to believe it isn't. An abbreviation, perhaps,
but I have a middle name, and my first name is longer than "Chris",
yet I don't get in strife for not using my "real name".

ChrisA

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#100631 — Re: Installing PyCharm on Windows

On Sunday, December 20, 2015 at 3:29:34 AM UTC-5, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Josef Pktd wrote:
> ^^^^^^^^^^
> I doubt that is your real name.

But it's the name I used for almost all of my Python open source development, and can be easily googled.
except I misspelled my "name" josef-pkt when I set up my github account.


> 
> > On Saturday, December 19, 2015 at 1:32:27 PM UTC-5, Thomas 'PointedEars'
> > Lahn wrote:
> >> Have you tried to install Python ≥ 3.4.4rc1 on Windows XP?  If yes, it
> >> cannot work; you need Python < 3.4.4rc1 instead (and you should seriously
> >> consider upgrading Windows or even better, to switch to a real operating
> >> system, like GNU/Linux – many of the latter come for free and give you
> >> more freedom than Windows):
> > 
> > Thanks for the tip, I will switch away from Windows when I have an extra
> > year to figure out weird things in other operating systems.
> 
> Ordinary people (as opposed to tech-savvy people) have been known to set up 
> a current Linux distribution in a day and get accustomed to it in a week.  
> Those “weird things” you are talking about are merely something that needs a 
> little getting used to if you had gotten used to Windows.  Of course, not 
> all people are (still) that flexible in their thinking.

Maybe I don't **want** to be this flexible because I allocate my "flexibility" to other things (instead of, for example, figuring out how packaging and paths work on Linux).


> 
> > So far I never managed more than two weeks in a Linux virtual machine
> > before never opening it again.
> 
> Your problem alone.

If I have a problem, then I assume many other Windows users will also have problems, if they are even willing to try.


> 
> > PPS: The mainstream: Python and Windows ("it's not just for 'hackers'"):
> 
> Non-Windows operating systems are not just for hackers since more than a 
> decade.  They are for reasonably smart people, though, who would not give up 
> at the first sign of trouble.
> 
> And who cares about the mainstream opinion?

I do!

Almost all economists and econometricians that I know are using Windows. And I was working for many years on open software to get to a stage where they can use Python instead of commercial packages like GAUSS, Stata or Matlab.

The main target group are not programmers or users with a computer science background.

> 
> > http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
> 
> Thank you so much for providing that valuable reference. I am sure nobody 
> here knew :->
> 
> > https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0
> 
> A million flies can be wrong.
> 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows#Third-party_analysis>
> 
> > PPPS: Scientific Python mailing list have been free of snide remarks about
> > Windows users for a while, but not of real problems with Windows (or OSX
> > or Linux)
> 
> Thanks to you that would have changed if this were a “scientific Python 
> mailing list”.

I complained a few times on the mailing lists when the response to a question by a Windows users was to switch to Linux. It's not helpful in almost all cases, and now the standard response for setup problems is to use Anaconda or WinPython.

I also found it silly if Software Carpentry courses use exclusively Linux in the course and people are then surprised that users go back to their office and their Windows machine, and their commercial software, ignoring most of what they learned.


> 
> Mine was not a snide remark, but the truth.  Those other operating systems I 
> was talking about do give users more freedom.  For example, the freedom to 
> use it on as many different machines as you like without an extra license, 
> to see the source code, to modify it, and to redistribute the modification 
> including an attribution to yourself.

"Richtige Männer nehmen Pitralon"  everything else is "unreal"

I'm writing BSD licensed software, but I never felt the urge to change more than a few options in the operating system, and was never interested in the "freedom" to fix the kernel (and I was never interested in fixing my car either).

Josef

PS: I learned a lot from this mailing list when I started with Python 12 to 15 years ago. But either the mailing list or my perception has changed in that I see now several or many comments that ignore that there are many users and developers using Python without an explicit programming background.



>  
> > PPPPS: Windows 10 with Computer as a Service following Apple will lock in
> > many users again to "everything Microsoft", but without the monopoly.
> 
> If people are made dependent on a single vendor, how is that not attempting 
> to attain a monopoly?
> 
> Anyhow, *I* was not intending to start an OS flame war, but to point out 
> that in my experience Python is easier to handle on other OSes than Windows, 
> so it is a contingency that should be considered.  As you indicated, that 
> does not mean that one has to abandon Windows for booting the computer.
> 
> -- 
> PointedEars
> 
> Twitter: @PointedEars2
> Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#100635 — Re: Installing PyCharm on Windows

On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 4:15 AM, Josef Pktd <josef.pktd@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Mine was not a snide remark, but the truth.  Those other operating systems I
>> was talking about do give users more freedom.  For example, the freedom to
>> use it on as many different machines as you like without an extra license,
>> to see the source code, to modify it, and to redistribute the modification
>> including an attribution to yourself.
>
> "Richtige Männer nehmen Pitralon"  everything else is "unreal"
>
> I'm writing BSD licensed software, but I never felt the urge to change more than a few options in the operating system, and was never interested in the "freedom" to fix the kernel (and I was never interested in fixing my car either).
>

That's true of me, too. I run Debian Linux on most of my systems, and
for the overwhelming majority of packages, I simply accept the
precompiled binary that's available from their repositories, rather
than tinkering with it myself. But the mere possibility that someone
recompile their own software forces authors and vendors to remain
honest; it's pretty useless adding in nagware or ads if anyone can
simply compile them out again. Plus, the general culture of GNU,
Linux, *BSD, and similar ecosystems means that when you *do* want to
compile your own software, it's really easy. Want to run CPython 3.6
on Windows? Go hunt down a compiler, fiddle around with it, and see if
you can get everything to work. Want to run CPython 3.6 on a Debian
system? It's probably as simple as:

$ sudo apt-get build-dep python3
$ sudo apt-get install mercurial
$ hg clone https://hg.python.org/cpython
$ cd cpython
$ make

Want to try out that interesting-looking patch off the bug tracker?
Same as the above, plus one little 'patch' command to apply the patch.
Either way, you end up with the main "python3" command still being the
one that Debian provided, and "./python" running the brand new one you
just built. (If you *do* want to replace your system-wide Python,
that's just one more command; but it's easy to keep them separate
until you're done testing.)

I'm not going to force anyone to abandon Windows, but freedom does
benefit even people who don't directly exercise it, so I would still
encourage people to consider a culture of freedom.

ChrisA

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#100638 — Re: Installing PyCharm on Windows

On 12/20/2015 4:54 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:

 > Want to run CPython 3.6 on Windows?
 > Go hunt down a compiler, fiddle around with it, and see if
> you can get everything to work.

No, much easier. Essentially the same steps as below after
following the instructions in the devguide to get the 2015 compiler.

> Want to run CPython 3.6 on a Debian system? It's probably as simple as:

> $ sudo apt-get build-dep python3

I think the equivalent step for windows come later.

> $ sudo apt-get install mercurial

OK, harder, hunt for Windows hg installer, or TortoiseHg if one likes 
GUIs front ends as I do.  Also get svn.

> $ hg clone https://hg.python.org/cpython

Essentially same.

> $ cd cpython

cd cpython/pcbuild

> $ make

external.bat # for dependencies, which is where svn is needed.

I forget command line invocation to build python itself.  I use Explorer 
and doubleclick python?.sln and the file association starts Visual 
Studio..  There is a windows make.bat for doc building.  This all works 
much better than a few years ago.  Many thanks for final tweaks to Zach 
Ware.

> Want to try out that interesting-looking patch off the bug tracker?
> Same as the above, plus one little 'patch' command to apply the patch.

Ditto for Windows.

> I'm not going to force anyone to abandon Windows, but freedom does
> benefit even people who don't directly exercise it, so I would still
> encourage people to consider a culture of freedom.

We have free-as-in-beer Python on Windows *because* people were free, in 
both senses, to develop it on *nix.


-- 
Terry Jan Reedy

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#100639 — Re: Installing PyCharm on Windows

On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 9:46 AM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> wrote:
> On 12/20/2015 4:54 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> Want to run CPython 3.6 on Windows?
>> Go hunt down a compiler, fiddle around with it, and see if
>>
>> you can get everything to work.
>
>
> No, much easier. Essentially the same steps as below after
> following the instructions in the devguide to get the 2015 compiler.
>
>> Want to run CPython 3.6 on a Debian system? It's probably as simple as:
>
>
>> $ sudo apt-get build-dep python3
>
>
> I think the equivalent step for windows come later.
>
>> $ sudo apt-get install mercurial
>
>
> OK, harder, hunt for Windows hg installer, or TortoiseHg if one likes GUIs
> front ends as I do.  Also get svn.
>
>> $ hg clone https://hg.python.org/cpython
>
>
> Essentially same.
>
>> $ cd cpython
>
>
> cd cpython/pcbuild
>
>> $ make
>
>
> external.bat # for dependencies, which is where svn is needed.
>
> I forget command line invocation to build python itself.  I use Explorer and
> doubleclick python?.sln and the file association starts Visual Studio..
> There is a windows make.bat for doc building.  This all works much better
> than a few years ago.  Many thanks for final tweaks to Zach Ware.

Ah, okay. My information is several years old, as that was the last
time I tried a build. Glad that's been improved on; although there's
still the problem that the Debian steps are virtually the same as for
any other project (just hunt down the source control URL for the
project - "git clone git://pike-git.lysator.liu.se/pike.git", or "git
clone https://github.com/micropython/micropython", etc, and all the
other steps are the same), whereas you need to follow a specific
Windows CPython guide. Still, that's a gigantic improvement. Thanks
for clarifying.

>> Want to try out that interesting-looking patch off the bug tracker?
>> Same as the above, plus one little 'patch' command to apply the patch.
>
>
> Ditto for Windows.

Right. That's part of the CPython openness, rather than the Debian
openness, so that part is just as easy on Windows (once you have a
build env set up on each platform).

>> I'm not going to force anyone to abandon Windows, but freedom does
>> benefit even people who don't directly exercise it, so I would still
>> encourage people to consider a culture of freedom.
>
>
> We have free-as-in-beer Python on Windows *because* people were free, in
> both senses, to develop it on *nix.

Exactly, and a strong example. Back when I maintained several Windows
systems around the house (a dwindling number over the years,
fortunately), I tended to deploy as much cross-platform open source
software as I could. Music player? VLC. CD burning? cdrtools. Etc,
etc, etc. Partly because it's good software... partly because it's the
*same* good software as I'm using on other platforms. And possible
only because of that freedom. Sure, I didn't *compile* any of them - I
just took binary blobs - but it was still much better to use free
software.

ChrisA

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#100633 — Re: Installing PyCharm on Windows

Hello Thomas,

On 19/12/15 18:32, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
 > (and you should seriously
 > consider upgrading Windows or even better, to switch to a real operating
 > system, like GNU/Linux

On 20/12/15 08:28, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
 > Anyhow, *I* was not intending to start an OS flame war,

Really? Specifically telling someone that their OS of choice is "not a 
real operating system" (without any sort of justification) is not 
intending to start an OS flame war? Of course that's what you intended 
to do. The answer to "Python does not work in this way for me" should 
*never* be "change your operating system".

FWIW, I can see that you do indeed have something to add to these 
discussions but unfortunately you seem to also feel the need to provoke 
a reaction from people. As a result, anything of value you impart - and 
there IS something there - gets lost in the noise.

If you could just bring yourself to offer your expertise without making 
direct value judgements on other people's choices, preferences and 
ability compared to your own, I think your voice would be listened to a 
lot more and things would be a whole lot easier.

This is just friendly advice - I am not _insisting_ that you do anything 
you do not wish to ;)

E.

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#100624

Le dimanche 6 décembre 2015 21:19:15 UTC+1, Anna Szaharcsuk a écrit :
> Hello there,
> 
> I was trying to install PyCharm, but didn't worked and needed interpreter.
> the computer advised to install the python for windows.
> 
> Can you help me, please, PyCharm stillnot working...allways gives a message
> for repair, after- the repair successful and again message for repair...
> 
> 
> Kind regards,
> Anna

Do not worry to much.
It just does not work.
Reason: Unicode.

Like I do not know how many products using Python.
Eg. LibreOffice.

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