Groups > comp.lang.python > #197315

Re: Python recompile

From	James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c, comp.lang.c++, comp.lang.python
Subject	Re: Python recompile
Date	2025-03-03 12:57 -0500
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<vq4qhg$1dcdf$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	<vq1qas$j22$1@gallifrey.nk.ca> <vq260p$u8ub$1@paganini.bofh.team> <vq2j3n$v2fk$1@dont-email.me> <vq4ocv$17dal$1@paganini.bofh.team>

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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On 3/3/25 12:20, Waldek Hebisch wrote:
...
> The question is about C implementation. Namely, the bible for
> this group, that is C standard requires C implementation to
> produce executables. And making executable from C sources
> it at core of the OP question. Fact that compiling this source
> is supposed to produce Python interpreter or maybe some
> supporting shared library is irrelevant here.
>
> One could call the problem "Linux problem". Namely, many
> (maybe all) Linux distribution modify(ed) gcc so that creating
> position independent executables is the default and to
> prevent this one need '-no-pie' at final stage. And to
> generate position independent executable all code has to
> be compiled as position independent code which needs '-fPIC'
> option. Similarly, if OP is trying to create shared
> library, then on Linux all code inluded in the shared
> librayr must be compiled as position independent code,
> that is using '-fPIC'.
>
> Dismissing this as linker problem misses important
> points:
> - linking is considerd part of C implementation
> - '-fPIC' is option for compiler proper
> - '-no-pie' is handled by the compiler driver

Here is the entirety of what the C standard says about translation phase
8, where programs are linked together:

"All external object and function references are resolved. Library
components are linked to satisfy external references to functions and
objects not defined in the current translation. All such translator
output is collected into a program image which contains information
needed for execution in its execution environment." (5.1.2.2p8)

Please tell me what that says that is relevant to the solution of this
problem? The PIC in that option refers to "Position Independent Code", a
topic about which the C standard says nothing. Whether or not that
option is needed or even helpful is outside the scope of C.

> And frankly, making executables or shared library from
> C code is real world thing that C programmer want to do
> and non-programmers would not do.

More directly to the point, programmers who aren't C programmers also
want to do it, and how it is done has nothing to do with C, and a lot to
do with the linker. The linker can be language-neutral, and in my
experience usually is, at least on the Unix-like platforms that I have
the most experience on (though I have heard of some language-specific
linkers).
>

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                Re: Python recompile Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-06 03:16 +0000
                Re: Python recompile James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-03-04 19:12 -0500
                Re: Python recompile gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2025-03-03 23:42 +0000
                Re: Python recompile geodandw <geodandw@gmail.com> - 2025-03-03 13:29 -0500
                Re: Python recompile James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-03-03 16:52 -0500
              Re: Python recompile Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-03-03 17:19 +0000
                Re: Python recompile geodandw <geodandw@gmail.com> - 2025-03-03 13:33 -0500
                Re: Python recompile Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-03-03 19:15 +0000
                Re: Python recompile geodandw <geodandw@gmail.com> - 2025-03-03 18:51 -0500
                Re: Python recompile Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-04 00:49 +0000
                Re: Python recompile Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-03-04 02:29 +0000
                Re: Python recompile David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-04 09:12 +0100
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    Re: Python recompile Left Right <olegsivokon@gmail.com> - 2025-03-02 23:26 +0100
  Re: Python recompile antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-03-02 17:54 +0000
    Re: Python recompile Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-03-02 19:15 +0000
    Re: Python recompile James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-03-02 13:38 -0500
      Re: Python recompile doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) - 2025-03-03 00:42 +0000
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        Re: Python recompile James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-03-02 22:24 -0500
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        Re: Python recompile Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-03-03 17:28 +0000
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