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Groups > comp.lang.python > #61065

Re: Managing Google Groups headaches

From Roy Smith <roy@panix.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Subject Re: Managing Google Groups headaches
Date 2013-12-04 19:58 -0500
Organization PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Message-ID <roy-9C2ADB.19585404122013@news.panix.com> (permalink)
References <5f370a06-8d2c-4d7d-bc22-b9a489c15c59@googlegroups.com> <132658ff-d06a-4136-ade6-353189da5769@googlegroups.com> <mailman.3565.1386170444.18130.python-list@python.org>

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In article <mailman.3565.1386170444.18130.python-list@python.org>,
 Rich Kulawiec <rsk@gsp.org> wrote:

> Yes, I'm
> aware of web forums: I've used hundreds of them.  They suck.  They ALL
> suck, they just all suck differently.  I could spend the next several
> thousand lines explaining why, but instead I'll just abbreviate: they
> don't handle threading, they don't let me use my editor of choice,
> they don't let me build my own archive that I can search MY way including
> when I'm offline, they are brittle and highly vulnerable to abuse
> and security breaches, they encourage worst practices in writing
> style (including top-posting and full-quoting), they translate poorly
> to other formats, they are difficult to archive, they're even more
> difficult to migrate (whereas Unix mbox format files from 30 years ago
> are still perfectly usable today), they aren't standardized, they
> aren't easily scalable, they're overly complex, they don't support
> proper quoting, they don't support proper attribution, they can't
> be easily forwarded, they...oh, it just goes on.  

The real problem with web forums is they conflate transport and 
presentation into a single opaque blob, and are pretty much universally 
designed to be a closed system.  Mail and usenet were both engineered to 
make a sharp division between transport and presentation, which meant it 
was possible to evolve each at their own pace.

Mostly that meant people could go off and develop new client 
applications which interoperated with the existing system.  But, it also 
meant that transport layers could be switched out (as when NNTP 
gradually, but inexorably, replaced UUCP as the primary usenet transport 
layer).

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Thread

Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-11-28 05:52 -0800
  Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-29 00:58 +1100
    Re: Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-11-28 06:17 -0800
      Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-29 01:25 +1100
        Re: Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-11-28 07:04 -0800
          Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-29 02:08 +1100
            Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-28 15:50 +0000
              Re: Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-11-28 08:22 -0800
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-28 16:33 +0000
            Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-28 15:49 +0000
            Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-28 15:49 +0000
            Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2013-11-28 15:50 +0000
              Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-11-28 11:43 -0500
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-11-29 04:29 +1100
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-12-02 13:03 +0000
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-12-02 08:29 -0500
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-12-02 14:04 +0000
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-02 09:11 -0800
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-02 17:48 +0000
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-03 04:54 +1100
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-02 18:07 +0000
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-12-02 19:56 -0500
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-12-02 19:54 -0500
                Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-12-02 18:17 -0700
                Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-12-02 20:43 -0500
                Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-02 18:27 -0800
                Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-12-02 20:09 -0700
                Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-02 19:26 -0800
                Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-12-03 04:27 +0000
                Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-03 18:01 +1100
                Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-12-03 16:30 +1000
                Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-12-03 07:13 +0000
                Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-12-04 10:23 +1000
                Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-12-04 14:34 +0000
                Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-04 15:21 +0000
                Re: [OT] Managing Google Groups headaches Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-03 12:09 +0000
          Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-11-28 08:40 -0700
          Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Travis Griggs <travisgriggs@gmail.com> - 2013-11-28 08:23 -0800
          Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-11-28 12:23 -0500
          Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-11-28 11:29 -0700
            Re: Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-11-28 10:37 -0800
              Re: Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-11-28 11:00 -0800
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-11-28 12:55 -0700
              Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> - 2013-11-28 19:40 +0000
              Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-11-28 11:50 -0700
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Arif Khokar <akhokar1234@wvu.edu> - 2013-11-28 19:46 -0500
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-29 14:41 +0000
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-11-29 16:17 +0000
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2013-12-04 11:38 +1100
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-03 17:39 -0800
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-04 13:03 +1100
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2013-12-05 09:47 +1100
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-05 23:42 -0800
              Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Walter Hurry <walterhurry@lavabit.com> - 2013-11-28 20:39 +0000
          Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-11-28 16:41 -0500
            Re: Managing Google Groups headaches pecore@pascolo.net - 2013-11-30 14:25 +0100
              Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Cameron Simpson <cs@zip.com.au> - 2013-12-04 11:40 +1100
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-12-04 15:50 +0000
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-04 16:07 +0000
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-12-04 11:21 -0500
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-04 16:33 +0000
          Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Zero Piraeus <z@etiol.net> - 2013-11-28 13:29 -0300
            Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-11-29 16:15 +0000
          Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-11-28 17:32 -0500
          Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-11-28 17:44 -0500
          Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-29 14:39 +0000
  Re: Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-11-28 10:13 -0800
    Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Rich Kulawiec <rsk@gsp.org> - 2013-12-04 09:52 -0500
      Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-12-04 19:58 -0500
        Re: Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-05 23:13 -0800
          Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-12-06 02:36 -0500
            Re: Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-06 05:03 -0800
              Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-07 00:19 +1100
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-06 05:32 -0800
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-07 00:48 +1100
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-06 06:11 -0800
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-07 01:51 +1100
              ASCII and Unicode [was Re: Managing Google Groups headaches] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-12-06 19:00 +0000
                Re: ASCII and Unicode [was Re: Managing Google Groups headaches] Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2013-12-06 14:34 -0500
                Re: ASCII and Unicode [was Re: Managing Google Groups headaches] Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-12-06 20:54 +0000
                Re: ASCII and Unicode [was Re: Managing Google Groups headaches] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-07 10:42 +1100
                Re: ASCII and Unicode [was Re: Managing Google Groups headaches] rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-06 18:33 -0800
                Re: ASCII and Unicode [was Re: Managing Google Groups headaches] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-07 13:41 +1100
                Re: ASCII and Unicode [was Re: Managing Google Groups headaches] rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-06 19:16 -0800
                Re: ASCII and Unicode [was Re: Managing Google Groups headaches] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-07 15:08 +1100
                Re: ASCII and Unicode [was Re: Managing Google Groups headaches] MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-12-07 03:19 +0000
                Re: ASCII and Unicode giacomo boffi <pecore@pascolo.net> - 2013-12-07 17:05 +0100
                Re: ASCII and Unicode rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-08 08:41 -0800
                Re: ASCII and Unicode Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-12-08 17:22 +0000
                Re: ASCII and Unicode rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-08 09:39 -0800
                Re: ASCII and Unicode giacomo boffi <pecore@pascolo.net> - 2013-12-08 21:11 +0100
                Re: ASCII and Unicode rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-08 19:02 -0800
              Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2013-12-07 12:27 +1300
              Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-12-06 21:24 -0500
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-06 23:43 -0800
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-12-07 02:16 -0800
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-12-07 11:25 +0000
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-07 22:49 +1100
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-12-07 11:08 -0500
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Rotwang <sg552@hotmail.co.uk> - 2013-12-07 16:15 +0000
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2013-12-07 10:19 -0600
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-07 08:27 -0800
                Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-12-07 12:04 -0500
          Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-12-07 03:07 +0000
            Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-12-06 22:40 -0500
    Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-05 02:46 +1100
    Re: Managing Google Groups headaches Travis Griggs <travisgriggs@gmail.com> - 2013-12-04 08:31 -0800

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