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Re: Assignment Versus Equality

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From Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com>
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Subject Re: Assignment Versus Equality
Date Tue, 28 Jun 2016 12:27:40 -0600
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On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 10:39 AM, Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> wrote:
>
> (sorry for the premature previous post)
>
> Random832 <random832@fastmail.com>:
>> All objects, not just black holes, have those properties. The point
>> here is that we are in fact observing those properties of an object
>> that is not yet (and never will be) a black hole in our frame of
>> reference.
>
> A physicist once clarified to me that an almost-black-hole is
> practically identical with a black hole because all information about
> anything falling in is very quickly red-shifted to oblivion.
>
> However, there is some information that (to my knowledge) is not
> affected by the red shift. Here's a thought experiment:
>
>        ----------
>       /          \
>      /  (almost)  \               N
>     |    black     |              |
>     |     hole     |              S
>      \            /
>       \          /
>        ----------
>
> We have a stationary, uncharged (almost) black hole in our vicinity and
> decide to send in a probe. We first align the probe so it is perfectly
> still wrt the black hole and let it fall in. Inside the probe, we have a
> powerful electrical magnet that our compass can detect from a safe
> distance away. The probe is also sending us a steady ping over the
> radio.
>
> As the probe approaches the event horizon, the ping frequency falls
> drastically and the signal frequency is red-shifted below our ability to
> receive. However, our compass still points to the magnet and notices
> that it "floats" on top of the event horizon:
>
>        ----------
>       /          \
>      /  (almost)  \ N
>     |    black     ||
>     |     hole     |S
>      \            /
>       \          /
>        ----------
>
>
>            /
>           / compass needle
>          /
>
> The compass needle shows that the probe is "frozen" and won't budge no
> matter how long we wait.

I'm skeptical of this. As the ping frequency falls drastically due to
relativistic effects, so too does the observed current powering the
electromagnet, does it not?

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Thread

Assignment Versus Equality Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-26 00:36 -0700
  Re: Assignment Versus Equality BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-26 11:48 +0100
    Re: Assignment Versus Equality Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-26 23:21 +1000
      Re: Assignment Versus Equality Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-26 07:26 -0700
        Re: Assignment Versus Equality Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-06-26 11:31 -0400
      Re: Assignment Versus Equality Christopher Reimer <christopher_reimer@icloud.com> - 2016-06-26 11:47 -0700
      Re: Assignment Versus Equality Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2016-06-26 15:28 -0600
      Re: Assignment Versus Equality Bob Gailer <bgailer@gmail.com> - 2016-06-27 08:22 -0400
        Re: Assignment Versus Equality Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-27 05:48 -0700
          Re: Assignment Versus Equality Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-27 23:28 +1000
            Re: Assignment Versus Equality Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-27 16:58 +0300
            Re: Assignment Versus Equality Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-27 07:23 -0700
              Re: Assignment Versus Equality Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-28 11:05 +1000
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-27 21:31 -0700
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-28 15:42 +1000
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-06-28 16:04 +1000
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-28 09:12 +0300
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Jussi Piitulainen <jussi.piitulainen@helsinki.fi> - 2016-06-28 11:04 +0300
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-27 23:09 -0700
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-28 00:12 -0700
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-06-28 17:26 +1000
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-28 01:49 -0700
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-06-28 20:34 +1000
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-28 17:42 -0700
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-06-28 10:13 -0400
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-28 19:39 +0300
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-28 19:41 +0300
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-06-28 13:19 -0400
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2016-06-28 12:27 -0600
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-28 22:40 +0300
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-06-28 16:59 -0400
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-06-30 12:29 +1200
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-30 12:50 +1000
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-30 09:22 +0300
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-29 12:27 +1000
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-28 20:52 -0700
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-28 21:03 -0700
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-06-29 00:52 -0400
              Re: Assignment Versus Equality Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-27 18:14 -0700
            Re: Assignment Versus Equality Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-06-27 11:21 -0400
          Re: Assignment Versus Equality Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-06-27 20:04 -0400
    Re: Assignment Versus Equality Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-06-26 11:21 -0400
      Re: Assignment Versus Equality Cousin Stanley <HooDunnit@didly42KahZidly.net> - 2016-06-26 08:47 -0700
        Re: Assignment Versus Equality BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-26 16:56 +0100
          Re: Assignment Versus Equality Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-06-27 11:38 +1200
          Re: Assignment Versus Equality Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-06-27 07:30 -0400
            Re: Assignment Versus Equality Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-06-28 18:17 +1200
          Re: Assignment Versus Equality Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> - 2016-06-27 13:59 +0000
            Re: Assignment Versus Equality Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-27 17:09 +0300
              Re: Assignment Versus Equality sohcahtoa82@gmail.com - 2016-06-27 17:33 -0700
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-28 07:25 +0300
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-27 23:54 -0700
            Re: Assignment Versus Equality Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-27 07:10 -0700
              Re: Assignment Versus Equality Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-29 12:35 +1000
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-06-29 14:19 +1000
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-28 21:51 -0700
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-06-29 15:07 +1000
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-28 22:55 -0700
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-06-29 16:26 +1000
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-28 23:33 -0700
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-28 23:37 -0700
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-29 15:26 +1000
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-28 22:51 -0700
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-29 16:45 +1000
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-29 01:07 -0700
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-06-29 18:09 +1000
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-29 22:36 +1000
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-29 14:24 +0100
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-06-29 23:35 +1000
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-29 15:47 +0100
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-06-29 23:34 +1000
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-29 10:49 +0100
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-29 02:56 -0700
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-29 11:10 +0100
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-29 03:24 -0700
            Re: Assignment Versus Equality Alain Ketterlin <alain@universite-de-strasbourg.fr.invalid> - 2016-06-27 16:48 +0200
              Re: Assignment Versus Equality Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-27 22:00 -0700
            Re: Assignment Versus Equality Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-28 11:34 +1000
          Re: Assignment Versus Equality MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2016-06-27 16:27 +0100
            Re: Assignment Versus Equality Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-27 14:56 -0700
            Re: Assignment Versus Equality Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-27 15:45 -0700
              Re: Assignment Versus Equality BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-28 00:08 +0100
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-06-27 20:11 -0400
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-28 11:35 +0100
                Re: Assignment Versus Equality Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-06-28 18:59 +1200
            Re: Assignment Versus Equality Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-28 11:28 +1000
          Re: Assignment Versus Equality Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> - 2016-06-27 15:42 +0000
      Re: Assignment Versus Equality Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-26 19:11 +0300
    Re: Assignment Versus Equality MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2016-06-26 16:41 +0100
      Re: Assignment Versus Equality BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-26 17:08 +0100
    Re: Assignment Versus Equality Christopher Reimer <christopher_reimer@icloud.com> - 2016-06-26 11:53 -0700
      Re: Assignment Versus Equality Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-06-27 11:41 +1200
    Re: Assignment Versus Equality Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-06-27 11:22 +1200
      Re: Assignment Versus Equality BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-27 00:39 +0100
        Re: Assignment Versus Equality Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-06-28 18:15 +1200

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